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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/21/2003 4:38:47 PM EDT
I wanted to tap in the wealth of ya’ll knowledge and experience and ask for your thoughts regarding .22LR conversion kits and/or complete uppers.
First of all, are they even worth the money they cost? The idea of “cheap trigger time” is appealing, but is it as much fun to shoot as “regular” .223, or at least provides similar experience? The reason I ask is because I used to have a .22LR conversion kit for my 1911, and aside from occasional FTF/FTE problems it had, it was very boring to shoot, and not very accurate either. Needless to say, I got rid of that thing pretty quickly. Would .22LR be just as boring to shoot from AR-15 as it was from 1911?
Second of all, what are the choices out there as far as .22LR uppers go? Any tips on what to “shoot for” and what to stay away from? What is the “fair market price” for one?
Third, I intentionally said “22LR uppers” above instead of Conversion Kits… Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like some/all of the kits out there (such as Ciener) are just that – kits, i.e. bolt assembly/chamber/etc. and a magazine. You still need to use your own upper, barrel, hand guards, etc. Am I right? If so, I’m definitely no interested in swapping all these part back and forth every time. Therefore, I’m interested in a complete upper, that I can just slap on a complete lower and off I go. I may even build a dedicated lower for it at some point. I saw someone selling a complete .22LR upper here on EE board for something like $500 or so (can’t find the ad right now), but all other places I’ve seen just sell kits. Was that complete upper a “custom” job built from one of those conversion kits, or are there actual complete “factory” uppers available for retail?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:53:57 PM EDT
JMHO but I'd rather trick out a Ruger 10/22 w/stock, bull bbl. ect. then get a new upper for my AR. I'm sure they work ok or they'd be out of business but I'd still bet they'd not be as accurate as a 10/22. I guess it really boils down to what you want to do. If you want a 22lr to shoot then buy a 22lr if on the other hand you want to train with your AR but use cheaper ammo then get the 22lr upper. It's really apples to oranges. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:00:42 PM EDT
Frank, I guess I should have mentioned that. I'm not really interested in shooting just any .22LR rifle. More trigger time with AR is what I'm after, trigger time that won't break my wallet that is.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:06:56 PM EDT
I built my .22lr upper with a ciener kit and an old military carbine upper with a 1-14 twist rate. It worled so well and I saed soooo much money on ammo that I bought it its own bushmaster lower. It is by far my favorite rifle. Accuracy is about 1" at 50 yards with open sights. I soot about 500 rounds per week in this setup. It cost total of about $350 for the upper and $300 for the lower. It may cost alot more than a 10/22 but its a heck of alot more fun and when you are shooting people stop, talk to you, and ooh and ahh. As to complete dedicated uppers you could get the DPMS for the same price and it is a tack driver. With 4x scope figure 1/2" groups with good ammo. It is a tack driver and I'm sure would do better with a match grade trigger. Yes, you could buy a tricked out 10/22, but its not nearly as fun. FWIW I love shooting .22lr and find it to well complement my centerfire shooting.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:12:13 PM EDT
In that case then, yes, it would be worth it. In the long run the money you save on ammo will make up for the cost of the upper. I thought you just wanted a 22ls so you could shoot more, not shoot your AR more. I'd check out some local gun shows if ya' can. You may find a good used unit for less money. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:21:31 PM EDT
Aleko, I'll chime in my 2 cents. I do have the Ceiner conversion, but have had no actual experience with a dedicated upper. My Ceiner is a lot of fun to shoot. It is certainly less accurate than an upper, but it is plenty accurate to roll cans around at 50 yards. As to the time involved, we would only be talking a few seconds different between the two choices, when installing. For the Ceiner, open the action, slide charging handle to rear, remove 223 carrier, slide in Ceiner, close action, insert magazine. Replacing the upper might be faster, but not by much. For me, I like the fact that the Ceiner is small enough to fit in my 223 possibles box, along with a goodly supply of 22 LR's. This way I would not have to have my other upper with me, and I can take to the varmint fields with either caliber. I would imagine that I will one day get a dedicated 22 LR upper. I actually shoot mine quite a bit, and find that the lack of noise, recoil, and low cost of ammo makes it very enjoyable. I would say that the only downsides to the Ceiner would be the accuracy, and the fact that you have to shoot the 223's through them every couple of hundred rounds. I guess that you will have to weigh those against the cost and convenience of a full upper. Craig
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:45:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 9:46:39 PM EDT by Klinger_04]
Originally Posted By Aleko: Was that complete upper a “custom” job built from one of those conversion kits, or are there actual complete “factory” uppers available for retail? Thanks in advance for your help.
View Quote
there are both factory and custom 22lr uppers for sale.. the one you saw could've been either, but I see factory DPMS's most often..(in fact, the only two companies that I've seen "factory" 22lr uppers from were DPMS & Fulton Armory.. but there could be more) They're about the same price as you mentioned.. here are DPMSs [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=177201[/url]
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 10:28:20 PM EDT
they'd be fun for squirell hunting. i'd rather have a suppressed 10/22 though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 5:32:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 5:38:27 AM EDT by Dan0341]
In my opinion, a dedicated upper is worth the money. I have a Kuehl upper. Kuehl uses the Ciener conversion without the barrel extension. This allows the barrel to sit farther into the receiver to give that M4 length look (while the barrel maintains 16"). The Ciener is the only kit that uses 30 round mags, although they are currently expensive - $150.00 on average. Reliability with subsonic ammo, after minor modifying and polishing, is excellent. When I was shooting high velocity, it did not need this special attention. Accuracy seems to be about 1 inch at 40 yards, but I've never seriously shot it for groups. And, I never experience "leading" with this upper as the bore diameter is correct for 22lr. This dedicated upper allows me to shoot on my property without disturbing the neighbors. And, I can shoot subsonic ammo for $22.00 per 500 rounds. It's a lot of fun to shoot and easily watch the impacts through the scope. Some people may think it's not worth the money. As for myself, it's a "must have." Good luck with your decision, Dan [img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/m16commanche.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:00:40 AM EDT
Build up an AR with dedicated upper. You can always use an existing lower or purchase a new one for the project. Can't have too many.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:24:33 AM EDT
It's too bad they don't make a conversion kit in 22Mag. I'd bet it'd be more accurate with the larger dia. bullet of the Mag. vs the LR. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 9:14:21 AM EDT
Thanks to everybody for your comments. Since overwhelming majority says "yay", I'm convinced to give it a shot. I did some searching around (very little) using links provided above, and came across two DPMS .22LR uppers (see below). What are the differences between them to “justify” $100 difference in prices? I can see the difference in hand guards, and also the first one doesn’t have any sights, while second has front sight (but no rear). What is the difference between those hand guards? Can I install iron sights on the first upper? Is the second one worth extra $100 (I know it’s subjective, but strictly from price/value stand point)? Thanks again. Brand New DPMS .22 Cal Upper. Upper features 1/16 twist bull barrel and Lo Pro receiver includes one 10rd mag - $390 [img]http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/uppers_images/22_Upper.jpg[/img] Post Ban M4A3 .22cal Upper. Upper conversion features a 1/16 M4 profile barrel. Includes one 10rd mag. - $490 [img]http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/uppers_images/M4_A3_22_Post.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 9:32:25 AM EDT
The first one has a bull bb. and free floating handgaurd but as you said, no sights. The second looks like it has an M-4 style bbl. and handgaurds and a front sight, you could add a carry handle or other rear sight and have iron sights with this unit or use a scope and have the best of both worlds. If you don't intend to use iron sights then the first one would be ok and maybe a tad more accurate but I like having iron sights on my guns just in case the scope gets messed up. If it were me and I had the money I'd go for the M-4 upper with the front sight and pick up a carry handle or rear sight for it. JMHO, talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 10:48:01 AM EDT
Nice setup with the M4 profile. I sooooo wish they made a preban version upper for it as I already have a suppressor and another on the way. Hate to spend another $100 getting a good threading job done. Let us know how your project turns out. D.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 12:21:06 PM EDT
Take a look at the Kuehl uppers. www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.com/ Read the magazine article he has posted on his web site. It sold me - supposed to provide very good accuracy. I just got one of his M4 pre ban style uppers & it looks REALLY good. He uses modified Ciener kits, so 30 rnd mags are an opition. I've only shot it a little & it runs well. No regrets on this one - I'd certainly buy one of these again.
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