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Posted: 10/5/2006 3:12:10 AM EDT
Who manufactures a 6.8 upper that will handle the SSA combat loads without any problems?
Link Posted: 10/7/2006 7:26:58 PM EDT
[#1]
I do.

We had a special finish reamer made by Pacific Tool, the specs for which were given to me by Art at SSA.  The barrels are on their way to US Chrome for chrome lining the bore and chamber.  We expect them to be done by the end of next week.

Art is sending me some of his combat loads for testing the product.  I will be posting results as soon as we have the barrels in, built and tested.

You can read more about it here:  The KT68 AR-15 Upper.
Link Posted: 10/8/2006 4:24:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Excellent looking uppers.  I have you bookmarked and will look forward to the test results.  Great prices too.

thx.
Link Posted: 10/8/2006 10:36:57 AM EDT
[#3]
I ordered one from CMMG.  I have yet to receive it.  They assured me that their uppers will handle the SSA ammo without difficulty
Link Posted: 10/9/2006 3:05:36 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
I ordered one from CMMG.  I have yet to receive it.  They assured me that their uppers will handle the SSA ammo without difficulty


Then you will be interested in this email from them TODAY.

We haven't finished evaluating.  At this time we're not recommending
SSA
Combat loaded ammo.   Linda

CMMG, Inc
PO Box 369
Fayette, MO 65248
660-248-2293(phone)
660-248-2290(fax)
www.cmmginc.com

Link Posted: 10/10/2006 3:27:23 PM EDT
[#5]
CMMG can handle the commercial rounds but not the Combat loads. SAAMI spec chambers are too tight to run proformance rounds thru and they drive up pressures. KO-Tonics well be able to handle them.

We had a guy stop in last week with a gun to die for (at least 5K into it) but it could not shot rounds at 2,550 FPS without major pressure signs. We took out our Reworked Model 1 and out shot his major investment, hell his gun case cost more then our Model 1 upper.

The chamber KO-Tonics is using will be able to get over 2,600 FPS with 115 grain projectiles, even more with the 110 grain Pro-Hunter. With the Barnes TSX you are nearing 2,800 FPS.

NOW THATS SMOKEN


Art - SSA  
Link Posted: 10/10/2006 3:44:30 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
CMMG can handle the commercial rounds but not the Combat loads. SAAMI spec chambers are too tight to run proformance rounds thru and they drive up pressures. KO-Tonics well be able to handle them.

We had a guy stop in last week with a gun to die for (at least 5K into it) but it could not shot rounds at 2,550 FPS without major pressure signs. We took out our Reworked Model 1 and out shot his major investment, hell his gun case cost more then our Model 1 upper.

The chamber KO-Tonics is using will be able to get over 2,600 FPS with 115 grain projectiles, even more with the 110 grain Pro-Hunter. With the Barnes TSX you are nearing 2,800 FPS.

NOW THATS SMOKEN


Art - SSA  


Thanks, Art.  I used your Combat loads in the Rem 700 and it was sweet!
Link Posted: 10/11/2006 2:22:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Art  

How does one find/order your various Combat Loads from your website?

Will you be posting @ FPS data from 16"-20" barrels/std-combat load anytime soon?

Thanx.
Link Posted: 10/11/2006 10:52:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 10/11/2006 12:55:58 PM EDT
[#9]
We have a new lot coming thru the first part of next week which I will send you some combat loads.


Art - SSA
Link Posted: 10/11/2006 1:03:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Geeze, Art...some people will go to any length to get ammo!  
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 5:57:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Ko-Tonics purchased a lot of ammo from us and we want to help him along in his venture in making quality weapons that can handle preformance rounds. Many guns out there can only handle 2,500 FPS from a 16" barrel and then they start to develope pressure issue's and we know the round is capable of much more.

I like preformance from my rifle and KO-Tonics is offering a weapon that can handle rounds that can achieve over 2,600 FPS with our combat loads - bottom line is the more guns he sells the more ammo we sell.


Art - SSA


Link Posted: 10/12/2006 11:00:16 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
Art  

How does one find/order your various Combat Loads from your website?

Will you be posting @ FPS data from 16"-20" barrels/std-combat load anytime soon?

Thanx.


+1

I ordered some ammo from you, the pro hunters.  Am I assuming ( I know I shouldn't do that) that these are not the combat loads with the higher pressures.  Correct?
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 11:25:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Here is the ordering procedure:

You have to call or email Art and request the COMBAT loaded version.  The cost is the same as the standard web price.

This is how I ordered my COMBAT loaded ammo from Art per his instructions.
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 11:28:57 AM EDT
[#14]
kalwasart:

Do you have a list of weapons that can handle your combat performance rounds.

Will any other brands currently handle rounds that can achieve over 2,600 FPS with your combat loads.
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 12:18:44 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
kalwasart:

Do you have a list of weapons that can handle your combat performance rounds.

Will any other brands currently handle rounds that can achieve over 2,600 FPS with your combat loads.

Art, I dont need a whole list, but just a specific question which I've asked before, how are Noveske barrels/chambers working with the full pressure loads?  Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 1:55:12 PM EDT
[#16]
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA

Link Posted: 10/12/2006 1:59:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Can Leitner-Wise 6.8 rifles fire these combat loads?
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Art  

How does one find/order your various Combat Loads from your website?

Will you be posting @ FPS data from 16"-20" barrels/std-combat load anytime soon?

Thanx.


+1

I ordered some ammo from you, the pro hunters.  Am I assuming ( I know I shouldn't do that) that these are not the combat loads with the higher pressures.  Correct?



You will be getting our commercial version unless you talked to me first and I feel that your weapon can handle it.


Art - SSA
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 2:13:16 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
Can Leitner-Wise 6.8 rifles fire these combat loads?


We have shot the combat loads thru their 10.5 barrel and they worked fine, BUT remember the 10.5 is a little flame thrower and pressure is lost at the muzzel. DO NOT SHOT IT THRU THEIR 16 INCH BARREL. They are testing the new chamber design and I do not know where they are on it.

Art - SSA
Link Posted: 10/12/2006 4:26:05 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
You will be getting our commercial version unless you talked to me first and I feel that your weapon can handle it.

Art - SSA



Which are the weapons that you feel can handle it?

Link Posted: 10/14/2006 5:16:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Nice looking Uppers!  Now I gotta do some more thinkin  about how bad i want one of these.
Link Posted: 10/14/2006 2:44:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 12:21:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Do you sell just the barrel?
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 3:20:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Yeah do you just sell Barrels? If so what length? looking for a 11.5.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 9:28:52 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
Yeah do you just sell Barrels? If so what length? looking for a 11.5.


+1
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:38:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:45:02 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA




Art - will the Bushmaster 6.8 handle the combat loads?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:15:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:20:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:52:31 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA





Art - will the Bushmaster 6.8 handle the combat loads?


Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) - my first guess is no if they are working strickly to SAAMI. I will get one ordered and let you know.


Art - SSA

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:38:42 AM EDT
[#31]
I have a 20" Olympic arms and wrote Lee Webb at Olympic and asked about pressure problems with their 6.8 and told them about the pressure problems with CMMG and he wrote, "Jim, You shouldn't have any problems with regard to ammo pressure.".

So I am guessing they guarantee them based on a company reply.

Art, if you think it's worth following up with them I will send you Lee's email address or you can get it from their home page.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 10:33:40 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA





Art - will the Bushmaster 6.8 handle the combat loads?


Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) - my first guess is no if they are working strickly to SAAMI. I will get one ordered and let you know.


Art - SSA



Hi Art,

I have read just about every post regarding 6.8 load data thread 5 times over now. I am sure it will take 100 times before I fully digest everything, but my understanding thus far was that the SSA combat loads are within SAAMI spec but somewhere closer to the middle of the spec. And that their use only becomes an issue when fired from a barrel built to the low end of SAAMI.

So I thought it interesting that you'd post "Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) -my first guess is no if they are working strictly to SAAMI.". Reading that line it sounds as though you are implying the SSA combat loads are not to SAAMI spec so if the Bushmaster is, then pressure issues will result. Or maybe I'm reading too much into the post?

FWIW this is coming from someone looking to jump onto the 6.8 bandwagon. I am all for a higher performing 6.8 cartridge, even if that means carefully choosing a barrel that can fire it, so long as that weapon can fire other commercially available 6.8 ammo as well.

So I suppose my question is...  does the SSA combat ammunition in fact conform to SAAMI spec or it more of a pseudo-SAAMI spec and could be described as a possible evolutionary path for the 6.8 ?

Any clarification you might have would be helpful to those like myself looking to make a move. I can tell you from experience that you can contact rifle makers X, Y, and Z and get 3 conflicting and sometimes quite negative answers with regards to this subject.  
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 11:14:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 11:47:33 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
The AMMO:

All rounds fed, fired and ejected perfectly.  We have also been testing very hot handloads, one of which pushes a 115gr. Remington Metal Clad at nearly 2,600 fps.  Results the same: feed fire, eject, hold the bolt on last shot, with boring regularity.


Ko-tonics


Only 2600 FPS ?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:29:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
The AMMO:

ko-tonics.com/images/SSA_Combat_Loads.JPG


The setting:
  • Nice 55 degree day in NC
  • KT68 6.8mm upper
  • AR-15 carbine lower
  • C Products 6.8mm 25-round mag
  • One daring shooter
  • One cheap camera with no sound.
Result?  See for yourself.

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE MOVIE (6+MB .mov file).


The string was actually ten shots, but for whatever reason the camera didn't catch the first shot.

All rounds fed, fired and ejected perfectly.  We have also been testing very hot handloads, one of which pushes a 115gr. Remington Metal Clad at nearly 2,600 fps.  Results the same: feed fire, eject, hold the bolt on last shot, with boring regularity.

All uppers will be tested with these hot loads before shipping.

The product is ready for sale.  Please visit our Web site and USE THE ON-LINE STORE TO ORDER A STANDARD UPPER (your order will be processed much faster that way.

Be sure to order bolts, mags, charge handles as needed.  SSA ammo will be here next week.

Ko-tonics



How accurate...without any sights?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:43:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:35:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a model 1 16"  with handloads i'm getting 2700-2750 fps with 110 gr hornadys and ssa small primer cases. at 2750 the primers are showing slight pressure signs.  as a blaster bbl its ok but accuracy is pretty bad. scoped and a 2.5 lb trigger  the groups are near 2" with 4 different powders and every trick I know to try.  
  Art I talked to you a few months ago and ordered some cases. Thanks for all of the helpful info.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA





Art - will the Bushmaster 6.8 handle the combat loads?


Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) - my first guess is no if they are working strickly to SAAMI. I will get one ordered and let you know.


Art - SSA




Art - is there a chamber gauge I can buy to check my chamber to see if it is 1.350?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 9:44:22 AM EDT
[#40]
WELL, I had written to 2 guys at Olympic and the 2nd guy said it was a tight to SAMMI specs chamber and WOULD have pressure prolems with a hot load, plus I have the original proto type they built for the shot show even before they had decided to build the 6.8 for sale.

So Art, I won't be shoting your ammo in this upper, I'm sure glad I found this thread as I am always looking for cheaper bulk ammo and probably would have ended up with some.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:28:35 PM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
We do not list our combat loads on our website because guy's will be buying it for guns that can not handle it. You will have to call to order and your weapon will need a chamber that has additional free bore over SAAMI spec's. Most gun manufactures have their head spacing at the bottom of the spec 1.346, we push ours out to 1.350

Now if you do not have a chrome line barrel any good gun smith can take a throat reamer for a .270 and he can increase your free bore. If you have a chrome lined barrel the chrome has to be stripped first than reamed and re-chromed. H_LL it may be easier to just buy a new barrel and keep the original chromed one as a spare.

Ypu may want to talk to KO-Tonics I know he has some barrels coming in with the combat chambers.

Art - SSA





Art - will the Bushmaster 6.8 handle the combat loads?


Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) - my first guess is no if they are working strickly to SAAMI. I will get one ordered and let you know.


Art - SSA



Hi Art,

I have read just about every post regarding 6.8 load data thread 5 times over now. I am sure it will take 100 times before I fully digest everything, but my understanding thus far was that the SSA combat loads are within SAAMI spec but somewhere closer to the middle of the spec. And that their use only becomes an issue when fired from a barrel built to the low end of SAAMI.

So I thought it interesting that you'd post "Have not tried a Bush yet (old age and all) -my first guess is no if they are working strictly to SAAMI.". Reading that line it sounds as though you are implying the SSA combat loads are not to SAAMI spec so if the Bushmaster is, then pressure issues will result. Or maybe I'm reading too much into the post?

FWIW this is coming from someone looking to jump onto the 6.8 bandwagon. I am all for a higher performing 6.8 cartridge, even if that means carefully choosing a barrel that can fire it, so long as that weapon can fire other commercially available 6.8 ammo as well.

So I suppose my question is...  does the SSA combat ammunition in fact conform to SAAMI spec or it more of a pseudo-SAAMI spec and could be described as a possible evolutionary path for the 6.8 ?

Any clarification you might have would be helpful to those like myself looking to make a move. I can tell you from experience that you can contact rifle makers X, Y, and Z and get 3 conflicting and sometimes quite negative answers with regards to this subject.  


Our commercial rounds are built to the bottom of the spec (dimension wise) and will work in all weapons. We just dowm load them compared to the combat loads  to avoid any pressure issues.

Yes our combat rounds are to SAAMI, but you can not shoot them in an average gun, here's why..

* SAAMI has a max pressure of 55,000 PSI
* Very few guns can handle that pressure.
*  Here's how it works - test barrels for pressure are about 2.5 inches at the chamber and 1.5 inches at the muzzel. It has a breach firing system much like a cannon. It does not have to worry about timing, gas port size or it's location and it does not eject a case.
* Lets say a cartridge test 50,000 PSI - within SAAMI - yes!
* Now you have a weapon with bad timing - it releases the bolt too soon - cartridge is still under a high pressure - bolt comes back - case is unsupported and you blow a primer or the case fails completely. The higher the pressure the worst the problem becomes.
* The tighter the chamber and or rifling will increase the pressure of that same cartridge
up and above SAAMI'S 55,000
* Allowances for chrome lined barrels have to be controled or pressures will go up.
* If the barrel manufactures re-sharpen their chamber reamer so they're out of spec - (we have seen this) pressures well go up.
* If our bullet dia from one lot to another goes up the pressure will go up.
* If the hardness of a bullet goes up so does your pressure.
* powder from lot to lot can change, pressures go up or down.
* How sensitive is the powder to temperture changes will affect pressures
* How warm is the cartridge when you fire it will affect pressures.

Now you know why commercial rounds are loaded with a good safe margin built in.

Guns can increase the pressure of a cartridge or make it appear that a cartridge is over pressured when it is not. Ammo manufactures have their issues to deal with too.

We have "Constructor" on this thread Shooting 2,700 FPS with a Model 1 Why? Because all guns are not created equal.

The combat loads work in chambers that have more free bore than SAAMI spec. The increased free bore drops pressures. With out going into detail you have less pressure and higher velocities. Now there is a statement many will argue.


Art - SSA


Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:43:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Thanks Art..   IMO your participation here is a invaluable resource as is many others..
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:22:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Have you tried your "Combat Loads" in any LMT SS barrels?
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