6.8 spc II or 6.5 Grendel. Which one would be the better choice for a 12" SBR build? Max shot would be 400 yards at deer or coyote. Any advantage to one over the other?

I believe that 6.8 is a better round for a 12" SBR.

I'm sure someone will be along to argue the opposite.

Both rounds are very similar.  The higher ballistic coefficient helps the 6.5 Grendel.  The 6.8 SPC may start out a little faster but the 6.5 Grendel catches it pretty quick.  Either requires a caliber specific barrel, bolt and magazine.  I don't think you can go wrong with either.   I already have three 6.5 Grendels and would like a SBR 6.5 G but they aren't worth the hassle where I live.   If you already shoot 6.8 SPC I'd build a 6.8 SBR.

either one...I had a 10.5" 6.8 SPC and loved it.  But...the 100g WPA Wolf 6.5 Grendel at ~24 cents/round made it worth it to sell all my 6.8 mags, upper, and ammo.  I was able to build a 6.5 18" upper, 12" upper (barrel in transit I hope), mags, a new scope for the 18", and then about 4X the ammo stockpile for what I sold the one upper, mags, and ammo.  Anyway, I'd still be using the 6.8 if it were not for the cheap 6.5 ammo.  I did also get some Hornady 6.5 good stuff (123gr Amax) that shoots 1MOA if I do my job (Wolf is more like 2MOA for me).

Either will work great.  I used the 90gr gold dots in 6.8 on deer, worked great.

6.5 Grendel is the only of the 2 with the ballistic potential to be effective at 400yds, when combined with the 129gr ABLR especially, while having farther effective ranges with the same projectile types when compared with the poor BC offerings for the 6.8 SPC.

12" 6.8 SPC is really a waste when you can have 6.5 Grendel, with far superior performance across the board.

12.5" 6.8 SPC with factory 120gr SST, 2375fps mv

275yds 1835fps 897ft-lbs
300yds 1790fps 854ft-lbs

PBZ with 200yd zero: 200yds

12.5" 6.5 Grendel, factory 123gr SST, 2350fps mv

300yds 1842fps 926ft-lbs
325yds 1803fps 888ft-lbs

PBZ with 200yd zero: 225yds

12.5" 6.5 Grendel, factory 129gr Nosler ABLR, 2290fps

375yds 1770fps 897ft-lbs
400yds 1738fps 865ft-lbs
800yds 1300fps 484ft-lbs. (this is the expansion threshold for ABLR, and coincides with muzzle energy of .357 Magnum, not that anyone is going to drop Bambi from 800yds with their SBR)

6.5 Grendel due to ammo availability.

6.5 because Wolf ammo is .25 per round.

Shorter range I think it's a toss up, if you want to reach out though, the 6.5 will be better. I really don't think the 6.8 has any advantages over the 6.5.

Why opt for lower impact speed, less point blank zero range, and reduced expansion within normal hunting ranges when you can have more?

Makes no sense to me.

I used to give a bit of credence to all the claims about how superior the 6.8 SBR or even 16" vs 16" was for hunting, although something was telling me it needed further investigation because it appeared that a lot of people were just copying and pasting statements from others who were vested in the success of 6.8.

Turns out they were all unmitigated fabrications.

I'm glad I ended up with a 16" 6.5 Grendel barrel first, when I really wanted 18" or 20" initially.  It really showed me what kind of marketing was going on, because most people were buying 20-24" 6.5 Grendels back then, thinking they needed more barrel length to be effective with it.

When I saw what a 16" actually does, versus what was being claimed here, I concluded that at least 90% of the people making these claims had no experience or raw data from which to work, and were repeating falsehoods that brought down the quality of the site, as a lot of people come here looking for accurate information, then make purchasing decisions based on what they see.

It turned out that I was getting the same speeds as 16" 6.8s with 100gr bullets, and still not able to get enough powder in the case to even reach maximum working pressure of the 6.5 Grendel when looking at 8208XBR and 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I saw right away that the claims were completely false, just like you are seeing in this thread already.

The main one was that you needed a 24" barrel to get any kind of muzzle velocity from 6.5 Grendel, even though the case capacity between the 2 is the same, and the Grendel case is more efficient with 30° shoulder.

The other was that 6.5 Grendel was only adequate for shooting paper targets, and not really good at that even, definitely not a hunting cartridge.  Never mind the over 150 hunting and target projectiles for 6.5mm, over 80 of them being for hunting, 53 of those being 130gr or lighter.  Nope, not a legitimate hunting cartridge.  I guess 120 years of exceptional hunting success with its ballistic equivalent, the 6.5x54 Mannlicher don't count.

It was as if a special type of physics existed for one cartridge, but not the other-a really uneducated thinking being continuously posted, as if it was some kind of gospel.

The proof is in the pudding, as they say, and a lot of people have had measurable performance gains in the AR15 on animals at ranges from up close out to 500yds on deer, 752yds on antelope.

It makes a great coyote through medium and even large game cartridge, that you can actually practice with and not experience all the penalties of the heavier-recoiling cartridges and unbalanced rifles of the past, with way more economy for the customer.

Despite what some are saying here it takes 4 more inches of barrel for the 6.5 Grendel to run at the same speeds as the 6.8.
I shoot both and build bullets for both.
I also actively shoot and build bullets for the 7.62x39, the 300 Blackout, 30 Herrett, .277 Wolverine.
We test in gel, live kills, range time, different crono-graphs.
BC does just not matter to 500 yards, the game has no freaking idea what the bullets BC is.
You cannot push either caliber fast enough from a 12.5 inch barrel to ethically take game to 400 yards, another myth.
There are more bullets set to operate at 6.8 SPC speeds for a 12.5 inch barrel than a 6.5 Grendel, fact.
The 6.8 was designed to operate from a short barreled rifle, the Grendel was not.
Either can be used however the 6.8 performs better.

There is always talk about BC and the higher SG of 6.5 mm projectiles when compared to the 6.8 projectiles. These are also always compared to the old 6.8 SPCI pressures and speeds.
The Steel ammo for the 6.5G is always touted, however the 6.8 has less expensive quality hunting ammo.
Heres another fact. No one ever takes the challenge to put a 6.5G against a 6.8 SPC in 16in barrel to 16in barrel. Even the most vocal on this site will not step up to it. I extend that to 12.5 vs 12.5, lets get together and do a video.
Another thing that is never mentioned is that the 6.8 expands to a larger diameter. It does so at the ethical hunting distances of both cartridges because of the larger diameter of the 6.8 and the higher velocity has more kinetic energy to initiate expansion.
I can expand a 105 grain 6.8 bullet to a larger diameter than a 118 grain 6.5G bullet.

Choose which ever you want, I like them both, I own them both, I shoot them both frequently.
Just know the facts without the kool-aid.
From a 12.5 inch barrel the 6.8 is the clear winner.

I will destroy a 6.8 all day long and twice on Friday, spank it up and down the range for sport.

Hit probability is very poor with that cartridge.  I know what poor BC looks like in the wind, even at closer ranges.

Come show me up this weekend at Boomerhsoot in Idaho.  Bring your special bullets, hot load them, doesn't matter, you will lose.  We have plenty of open slots for you at the Precision Rifle clinic on Friday, and open shooting on Saturday, with the final event on Sunday with well over 1,000 explosive targets for you to miss with a ballistically inferior mongrel.  You can take it to the short line at close range for high intensity though and hit all the targets you are able to, which shouldn't be a problem.

We'll have steel targets from 400-700yds, small explosive targets at the same distances for 3 days straight, all day long.

You'll be lucky to hit 50% of the targets at 400yds.

I'll bring my little 17.6" Grendel with light loaded 123gr AMAX even, nothing even in the higher BC region for 123gr.

Everyone I know that has a 6.8 doesn't bring it to any of these events and hasn't for years, meanwhile 6.5 Grendel is showing up and placing in more and more matches, while hunters continue to slay everything they point it at.

More expansion?  Wrong again.  Anyone who has several samples of the bullets can check this themselves.  Look at the ogive length of the stubby little retard bullets for 6.8, with their tangent ogive noses crammed into the .277" diameter and limited length of that retard abortion case design, which constrains the allowable ogive length.  This restricts expansion potential, a problem the .270 Winchester does not have.  

Better for hunting? Wrong again.  6.5 Grendel twist rate alone makes it more destructive on tissue, let alone higher impact speeds and more expansion potential, with better sectional density for penetration through the vitals.

Better from SBR barrel lengths?  Wrong again.  6.5 Grendel is superior to 6.8 SPC in every way from short barrels.  I used mv from your favorite barrel vendor for the 6.8 figures, so if anyone claims I'm using handicapped speeds, they can look internally for their problem.  

129gr Nosler ABLR expands down to 1300fps.  Within the first inch through game, it has already fully expanded, and retains most of its weight.

There simply are no real world results to back any of these claims in favor of 6.8 SPC.

But don't take my word for it.  Just come show me up.

SBR?

6.8 all the way.

6.8 develops 80% of it's potential velocity in the first 10" of barrel.

12.5"
85grain 2950fps
95grain 2750fps
110grain 2650fps

Lay off the devil weed dude.

The OP specified short barrels and inside 400 yards.

There literally is zero advantage for 6.8 over 6.5 Grendel from SBR, despite the pure BS spewed all over this site for well over a decade now to the contrary.

Same case capacity between both....check

One has 30° shoulder, shorter case, more rifling length for the same barrel length.

One has more efficient burn of the powder column.

One has way better projectile selection and factory loads, the other has a lot of mediocre loads, none of which can do what the other does.

One has really tight twist, the other not, unless you custom order.

They have about the same muzzle velocities with the same bullet weights, but one will surpass the other within the first 100-125yds, if not from the muzzle.

One has a longer point blank zero even with slower mv, but then someone will come along and say BC doesn't matter.

Math matters.

Don't know what devil weed is.

Inside of 400yds, there is only one of these that is still effective if you base hunting ethically off expansion threshold and impact speed, retained energy, or a combination of the above.

6.8 from 12.5" stops expanding before 300yds even with the 120gr SST factory load.

6.5 Grendel expands out to 325yds with the same Hornady bullet, a 123gr SST.

With 129gr ABLR, which there is no 6.8 equivalent that will fit the AR15, you have expansion from a 12" out to 800yds, again, not that anyone will do that, but 400yds is more than covered.

There is no projectile or cartridge available for the 6.8 SPC that comes anywhere close to that, and there never will be, because you aren't going to get the form factor into that long of a case in the AR15 mag well with that case.

It was never meant to be anything other than a bigger 5.56, so by design, it was intentionally handicapped for some reason-the originators claiming terminal effects, which is bogus moron speak for "We don't know jack about what we're doing."

If it would have been a .257", it would have been great, but they screwed themselves hard on projectile diameter selection, and missed a huge opportunity to develop the most neglected caliber on the market that really shouldn't be.

I get 2450 with 120 SSTs out of my 12.5 1:11.25 5R 6.8 II. No preasure signs and shoots little groups. I use 27.2 of AA200 with a CCI Mag primer. I have a low mass carrier, adj block and a "super bolt" from a maker who can't be named. Nice little rig. I haven't had the time to stretch its legs yet, have only chronied and shot at the square range. To me, the 6.8 is a handloading only cartridge, as factory ammo is loaded to spec 1 and is anemic comparatively.

With that said, the Grendel is still probaly "better" because the 129gr and for non-handloaders, there are way better factory loads available. But it's not enough reason for me to ditch my rig.

NVM

Why are you so hard over on 120grain!?

The purpose built Barnes 95 TTSX expands down to 1600fps.

In a 12.5" barrel, thats 450 yards.

Then there is the 85 grain TSX, the 90 grain TNT, the 110 grain VmaX...

That's a good little combo actually, basically 16" factory ammo speed.

You have expansion out to 325yds with that, but your point blank zero is still the same, 200yds, due to wind drift.


325yds 1809fps impact 872ft-lbs, which is more than plenty to take medium game

The 12.5" Grendel has the same energy and speed at that distance, but longer point blank zero with the factory load going 100fps slower at the muzzle.  This is one of those instances where anyone can see that BC does matter within the close ranges, not that it's a huge difference, but I'll take every advantage I can get.

123gr SST .462 G1 BC Litz, 2350fps, 12.5" Grendel

225yds point blank zero (for those wondering, this is the maximum distance where the bullet will stay within a 10" vital zone like on white tail, in a full value 10mph wind going left to right or vice versa, so you can aim center and get a hit in the vitals with a 200yd zero).

325yds 1803fps888ft-lbs

If you hand-load it, you can extend that to 375yds for expansion with the SST.

These are using Litz BCs for the Grendel, and published Hornady BCs for the 6.8 120gr SST, which nobody has really tested because they don't take testing bullets with that low of a BC seriously.  You can compare it to other bullets and get a rough idea of what the real BC is.  Might be lower, might be slightly higher.

Then when you look at any of the 42 different factory loads for 6.5 Grendel, including the 129gr ABLR, Hornady SST, Hornady ELD-M, 100gr TTSX, 130gr Federal Gold Medal Match, Wolf Steel case for 27 cents a piece, there really aren't any good arguments left for 6.8 SPC.

Hornady brass-cased ammo can be found as low as $16 to $17 per 20, and it is one of the best brass cases out there, behind Lapua.

It amazes me how many people swear by muzzle velocity, but have no concept of aerodynamics, terminal velocity, or retained energy.   The 6.5G is capable of everything the 6.8 can do and excels at longer ranges, even out of short barrels.  It's why I chose a 16" barrel for my build:  enough energy to take medium sized game past 400 yards, and enough legs to stay supersonic past 900 yards.  The sub $0.30/round steel cased ammo was the final straw for me.  I can blast all day at the range for the same cost as my 5.56, and then switch over to match-grade ammo that's only about $0.10-$0.20 more than the 5.56 match grade ammo.  It seems to me like the 6.5 Grendel's performance is finally becoming widely known (barring some internet knuckleheads).

120gr SST vs. 123gr SST at the same speeds is a good comparison since they are some of the more popular, affordable offerings for the layman, rather than a skewed or rigged comparison.

I just looked at 95gr TTSX, even from a hand load through one of the "special" barrels at 2697fps, with its .292 G1 BC.

It does not expand out to 450yds, not sure what barrel length or speed you were using.

400yds 1619fps 553ft-lbs PBZ is really poor at 175yds, the 120gr SST has much better PBZ and hit probability in 6.8 than the 95gr TTSX.  You generally can't beat BC with speed with such a limited case capacity.

I personally wouldn't pay premium price when I could get higher hit potential with a more affordable load, but have at it.  It will be good for the really short haul within 175yds I guess.

Grendel also has 90gr TNT, but I wouldn't purposely hunt medium game with it unless just for testing purposes, neck shots maybe.  Those are varmint bullets.  They are good for coyotes, but again, I would want more BC.

I've shot a bunch of the new 90gr TNT load from Federal in the Grendel.  It does 2890-2900fps from my 17.6" barrel, with multiple strings chrono'd at different times in the day.

Hardly any of that speed is retained at distance, as it's a flat-based bullet with .281 BC.

If you want muzzle velocity for mv's sake, to make people think there is something to a particular load, that's the old way of thinking dating back to before we had access to ballistics programs.

This is one of the major mind steps people need to go through.  I know I had to go through it.  I no longer look at mv first, but BC, even for shorter distances.  I can gather most of what I need to know based on the bullet's shape and design from that, then work back to the muzzle.

Now I know why I stopped this fruitless debate.

You know I personally shoot a 6.8 at over 2750 with 130 grain Berger VLD's from a 22in 6.8 at .4 MOA. Your telling me a .497 G1 BC is not capable?
I can push it to 2830 fps but do not need to, it runs past a Grendel at 2750 fps.

The OP is talking about a 12.5, can you not stick to that?

Your comments that are allowed when no one elses would be are still just, well not worthy of comment in return.

All my bullets use a hybrid ogive.
None are "stubby". Is that an intelligent ballistic description?

Funny thing is a guy in California is on the podium all the time using "stubby" 110 grain Hornady BTHP's, at 600 yards from a 22in 6.8.
I guess no one told those stubby little things they cant fly that far.

Oh and the bullets I design for the Grendel, 118gr hunting bullets, .7 MOA at 1000 yards. It expands down to 1600 fps and is capable of actual ethical energy and expansion to 450 yards. Your guy tested it. Guess what? My 6.8 120gr does the same thing, 450 yards. But heck, who am I, I just extended the ethical kill range of both calibers with a solid copper hunting bullet.
All my 6.8 bullets, sub .5 MOA at 100, 6.5, 6mm, .308, .310 all sub .5 moa, hunting bullets. My ogives, my bearing surfaces, my boattails, my meplats.
Where have I been? Making stuff happen instead of running my mouth.

But heck, why listen to me?

SBR - 6.8

6.8spc II

Well I'm impressed with all the "Billy-Bad-Ass" shooting stories in this thread.  I'm jealous that my eyes and ego won't let me ethically shoot while hunting medium game (deer & antelope) beyond 350 yards with my 6.8 SPC.   It's just a non-mentionable brand 12.5" barreled and super~bolt SBR build with a Saker 7.62 atop.  I load 95 grain TTSX's over 29.5  grains of AA LT-32.  Not the fastest load on the block; just accurate and puts meat on the table.

If the 6.5 works for you that is great and it's the right choice for you.  An analogy I picked up from an old 'used car salesman' "Their is a seat for every ASS and an ASS for every seat" applies to my firearm choices as I'm the ASS it works for.

Happy trails,
Jerry

Just for what its worth, Bill Alexander said he was ringing steel with ease from a 10.5 inch grendel @ 500 yards.  That is pretty impressive.

The 120sst for the 6.8 has supposedly an expansion threshold of 1600 fps. I hunt at 4500 ft, around 50 degrees. With a 100 yard zero, and a MV of 2450, I'm at 1622 fps at 500, with basically a 4 mil dope and 700 ft/bs. That assumes a true .4BC. That will take deer. My self imposed hunting limit is 400 yards though.

The Grendel like I said is better, mostly because of the better bullets available. But the 6.8 loaded right, with the right chamber/barrel/bolt is more than capable as a medium game SBR hunting round within reasonable (ethical?) range. But there are those caveats... and if doing it all over again, I would get a Grendel. But I got into the 6.8 before the G was taking off, and while I understand the disadvantages of the 6.8, given my performance envelope and intended use, there's not enough reason for me to change. I built this SBR specifically for deer/javelina hunting not ringing steel at long range. It works for that.

Short and fat for life!!!


A 105 MKZ and a 110 Accubond on either side of 175 grain Sierra MK in the center, not quite 30 carbine ;)  A 62 gr FMJ and a 69 gr TMK to the left and the big ones to the right are the 308 175 gr TMK and 178 ELD-X

If you hand load and have ever sorted thru a pile of Sierra Matchkings because their lengths jump around .01 u might appreciate that guy who makes the ammo posted up above.  I measured about 10 of his rounds, less then .002, not gonna bother doing the whole box.  Regardless of caliber you own, that's pretty impressive.  

Here are some real chrono numbers from factory Hornady 120 SST out of my Wilson combat 14.7 barrel 2 weeks ago.


Here's a link to a good Grendel velocity chart by barrel length and ammo type mid way down the page.   A 14.7 inch 6.8 seems to compare pretty equally to an 18 inch Grendel, factory load to factory load.  Chop 3.5 inches off a 16 inch Grendel and only lose 80 fps.  Skeptical, who knows, I'd probably surf the caliber specific boards if I was having issues deciding.  I obviously reload, and have never bought steel case anything, so not a factor for me.

Grendel Chart on AR15.com

Read decide what's important to you and enjoy the build!!

I really appreciate all the info so far. I forgot to add, that I do not handload so I will only be using factory ammo, if that makes a difference.
I am awaiting a response from Silencerco to make sure that my Omega or Hybrid will handle 6.8 or 6.5 in an sbr.

123gr AMAX and ELD-M expand down to 1600fps, and don't cost a fortune.

Everything you hear about 6.8 SBRs having some kind of advantage over 6.5 Grendel SBRs has just been claims without substantiation.

When someone posts the actual numbers and impact speeds at distance, as well as Point Blank Zero, foul play is called.

Math hurts.

The fact that you have steel case to shoot at under $5 per box of 20, all the way up to premium hunting ammo of all kinds among the 42 different factory 6.5 Grendel loads should make it pretty easy to decide.

Federal just added 4 new 6.5 Grendel factory loads this year in both their American Eagle and Premium lines, as did Hornady with an additional 123gr ELD-M load.

Depending on the suppressor rating, you will be looking at anywhere from a 10.5" to 12.5" barrel length allowable with most of the center fire cans on the market.

6.5 Grendel works at a lower operating pressure than 6.8 SPC on top of every other advantage it has over that cartridge, so it isn't as hard on the system.

The steel case ammo shows signs of being well under 50,000psi, for example.

This decision is a no-brainer really.

And where could I find either of these available in a 12"ish barrel?

Lilja has 11.5" and 12.5" ready to go.  Lilja SBR barrels

There are 2 different 12" group buys through Faxon going on, one filled, the other open.

Rainier has had them, but currently out of stock.  Rainier Ultramatch 12.5" 6.5 Grendel

Alexander Arms has complete 10.5" uppers for sale.  6.5 Grendel 10.5" Complete Uppers

I do see 6.8s for sale all the time on the Grendel forum though...no takers yet.

Theres a group buy over at 65grendel right now that's still open for Faxon barrels in 12".

Had 6.8, yama speaks the truth

Hate these fanboy threads

Next someone will say the garand action isnt reliable with its open action....

It's not a fanboy thread.

It's a thread where someone asks for 400yd hunting performance with an SBR, where some people's statements are factually correct, and others can't do math.

If you want a more economical load that still expands to 1600fps, the Hornady 123gr AMAX or 123gr ELD-M is something to consider.

123gr ELD-M, .506 G1 BC verified on doppler radar, 2350fps from SBR

300yds 1883fps 968ft-lbs

400yds 1741fps 828ft-lbs

500yds 1608fps impact 706ft-lbs

That stuff was selling for $15.65 a box recently.

Sico told me 16" on Grendel with an Omega.
But there's a guy on ARF that shoots a FA short barrel Grendel with an Omega.

I was gonna roll with it and bank on it working but got a 762 Saker for $500.

In answer to Op question - No

Well if the Omega is only rated for 16" for the Grendel, that really screws up my plans

Let's start by addressing some inconsistencies in your post.

Hornady ELD-M's don't expand.

"M" is for match the ELD-M's are intended to be a match FMJ load not intended for hunting. The ELD-X line does expand "X" is for expanding. Hornady's site shows the ELD-X's expanding down to 1, 800 FPS not 1, 600 FPS if you can show otherwise please do so.

Last I checked Hornady no longer loads the AMAX and doesn't offer expanding ELD-X's in a factory load. Which leaves only the SST's for factory hunting loads from Hornady.

The 123gr ELD-X uses the same jacket and core construction of the AMAX.  The AMAX expands down to 1600fps, and is an excellent hunting bullet, even though it was designed to be a match bullet.

The AMAX and ELD-M are basically BTHPs with a polymer tip filling in the hollow point.  They are not FMJs, and anyone who told you they were FMJs is simply incorrect.

High speed expansion performance of the 123gr AMAX mimics the 123gr SST, while the SST is meant to be held together with the cannelure and a mechanical crimp or lock inside the jacket down in the base, whereas the AMAX and ELD-M have none of those features.

The AMAX has been a preferred bullet among several hunting outfitters, especially ones that focus on long range hunting, because of its exceptional performance on game at distance from 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x284, various 7mms, and .30 bores.  It is preferred over the SST since it is softer, and is a very accurate bullet.

We tested the 123gr AMAX and 123gr SST in calibrated ballistics gel with multiple samples, and the 123gr AMAX retained 83% of its weight at 2599fps impact, expanded to .60", and penetrated 21.5".

It's a known and proven killer on game as well, and has been since Hornady introduced it as a factory load.

The ELD-M just has a different tip, and a better BC due to shaping of the boat tail mainly, using the same AMP jackets of the AMAX, same core construction for uniformity.  The tips are harder, and the main reason they updated the 123gr AMAX to ELD was for streamlining of production so they aren't sourcing multiple polymer tips.

So for the layman, you get even higher BC, which equates to more impact speed, more expansion potential, longer point blank range because of reduced wind drift, and dual-use for target and hunting.

You can get extremely accurate predictions for POI using Hornady's doppler-based program, and the 123gr ELD-M is in that program.  None of the 6.8 bullets are in that program by the way, which is a clue.

Just walked in about an hour ago with some ELD M., Polymer tip ammo,not FMJ,for sure.

Very Hillary Clintonesque, make up your own facts, share no links, just believe what i say

Hornady ELD-M's do not expand like ELD-X's so your statement that ELD-M's expand down to 1, 600 FPS is untrue, if you have actual data and not just dialog to show otherwise please share it.

I remember hearing it was rated down to 10" for Grendel. I'll be using mine on a 12" Grendel build.

I was gonna do it anyway but found a deal on a Saker I'm going to use.

I'll tell the engineers at Hornady that they are wrong, don't know what they're talking about with their own bullets just for you.

Some of you guys are so committed to an indefensible position, that you will ignore every shred of evidence shown to you no matter what, regardless of the accuracy of it from people who test and design these things for a living.

What's more likely?

The ELD-M (an AMAX with a new tip) expands like an AMAX, or...

All of a sudden, the AMAX with a new tip doesn't expand anymore, ice picks through the target.

The ELD-X is built to stay together at higher speeds from the 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, cartridge like that, while still being an affordable, mechanically locked bullet.

Hornady's engineers specifically told us they like 6.5 Grendel because the impact velocities are so controlled, within a shorter window, so bullet behavior is predictable, and the high twist rate accounts for more terminal effects that are helpful for putting animals down.

Still nothing, just believe what i say, i r expert.  Hornady has me on speed dial.

Don't have the science data to add here.

Only input I have is that:

@500y 6.5 out of a 12" knocks the shit out of the swingers where 6.8 out of a 12.5 nudges them.

@750y 6.5 hits the mini ipsc plates and 6.8 doesn't.

Made me get the 6.5

They don't seem to have their information straight... here's my conversation with Silencerco:

Attached File


ETA: screenshot seems to be crappy quality when I upload it, but at the end whoever was responding to me (never mentioned his name) said, "So I just finished chatting with my R&D tester, after I sent him that request he tested it, and he said it should be fine on 10"."

I usually support the 6.8 but I have never been able to get past 2500 fps with the 130 vld out of a 20" spec II barrel. But I'm only 500' above sea level.  That being said my 20" Grendel starts walking off and leaving the 6.8 at 380 yards. My  .270 Win barely gets over 3000 fps with 130 vld with a 22" barrel. And it likes the 140 vld much better at 2920 fps.
Apples for apples the 6.5 Grendel will gain you few more yards.  If you like the 6.8 go with it just don't inflate the numbers. Within the 400 yard range it was designed to operate it's still better than the 5.56. But there you open up another argument cause the 5.56 will still ring steel within that range.
Now for the 120 SST vs 123 SST out of the Grendel with in 250 yards on hogs penetration was not worth arguing about. I have not shot pigs past that range with either enough to give me a good sample.
The one thing I have noticed is that the 6.8 is less finicky over a wider range of bullet weights. And mine does prefer flat base bullets. Hell build 2 12" uppers and have fun comparing them.
I'd read your post on side by side comparisons.