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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 10/3/2014 12:59:31 AM EST
When spending 900-billion+ hours researching my "like you can afford that" AR dream build I began thinking. Cryptic Coating's Mystic Black bolt carrier group is super slick with a coefficient of friction of 0.01. As you can see in the video it is slick enough to change the ejection angle so that the bolt now moves fast enough that the brass deflects off the brass deflector.

http://youtu.be/echYVLCJnUw

Now if I'm correct that would normally mean it was over gassed right? I want a rifleman's rifle build which means I'm going to be shooting heavy bullets and a rifle length gas system capable barrel. The AR-15 was designed to fire 55 grain bullets with a 20 inch barrel, rifle length gas system. If I shoot 77 grain bullets it increases the dwell time and leads to higher pressure pushing the bolt back right? So would an 18 inch barrel be more like the original load pressure and be smoother? Also since I want this to be a longer range setup and not a Miculek "how does he shoot that fast?" setup I would want the bolt to cycle slow enough so that all powder burns in the barrel and I get clean brass coming out not black tipped brass, so to speak, right? What could help slow it down? I would want a fixed front sight base because free floating a barrel so that there is no change in zero when you pull with a sling or push with a bipod then putting your sights on the hand-guard seems silly to me. Keep that in mind if suggesting an adjustable gas block, and that I want a rifleman's fighting rifle build if suggesting a bolt carrier weight system.
P.S This is my spare no expense dream build so unless a different bolt is actually better and not don't waste your money better please don't suggest a different BCG. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:15:22 AM EST
I highly doubt one of the new "wonder coatings" that have been coming out left and right is going to increase bolt speed so much as to cause a problem.

If it were me, I'd stick with the 20" rifle gas barrel.......

Wait a second, no, if it were me I'd get a standard phosphate BCG.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:22:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
I highly doubt one of the new "wonder coatings" that have been coming out left and right is going to increase bolt speed so much as to cause a problem.

If it were me, I'd stick with the 20" rifle gas barrel.......

Wait a second, no, if it were me I'd get a standard phosphate BCG.
View Quote

Yep. If these coating were any good, you'd see more companies using them. The fact that you don't should be considered a clue.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:27:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 1:31:10 AM EST by B44T]
Looks like Mystic black is colored Nickle Boron coating. Lots of people like it.

If it were me I would go with nitride. It is a surface conversion and adds no thickness to the parts.

You are good to go with the standard 20 inch and rifle gas tube.


Take all advertising claims with a grain of salt.
FWIW you can do the same demmo as in the video and get the same results but with just one carrier.

Use 55 grain .223 in the first mag and 62 gr 5.56 in the second mag.


Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:35:32 AM EST
One of my main reasons for wanting the bolt is for cleaning. If you saw the TTAG post about the BCG you would see how easy it is to clean. I know to take everything with a grain of salt but TTAG is one of the few review posters I trust. I would just rather be ale to wipe it down in 2 minutes in the field with a paper towel than spend time scrubbing orwaiting for the super special ultrasonic cleaner 9,000. Also they are fairly new and it's hard to get accurate information about them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:51:14 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mabuckit:
One of my main reasons for wanting the bolt is for cleaning. If you saw the TTAG post about the BCG you would see how easy it is to clean. I know to take everything with a grain of salt but TTAG is one of the few review posters I trust. I would just rather be ale to wipe it down in 2 minutes in the field with a paper towel than spend time scrubbing orwaiting for the super special ultrasonic cleaner 9,000. Also they are fairly new and it's hard to get accurate information about them.
View Quote


I'm not trying to put down your ideas here man, I'm really not, but how much have you shot out of an AR with a standard phosphate BCG and how much have you cleaned?

Simple wipe down of parts instead of scrubbing isn't solely unique to these newer special coatings.

I used Frog Lube paste for a while and only once had to scrape the bolt tail after a rather harsh range day that included firing a little over 600 rounds in about an hour and a half without any re-lubing. Other than that, it was a simple wipe down with an old scrap shirt that I use for cleaning guns and it was completely clean.

Same goes for Slip2000. I rarely have to scrape anything as long as I keep it generously lubed.

Motor Oil and an ATF mixture also works wonders for minimizing caked on carbon.

As long as you use a decent lubricant and keep it wet, your time spent scrubbing will be minimal or non existent.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:35:33 AM EST
Thanks for the tips. But I've never shot an AR before, or any center fire rifle. I'm a huge gun nerd but being young and without a job really limits the ability to afford a gun, and since I refuse to buy a new gun while the CA gun registration is in effect I'm stuck with a Mosin Nagant that I can't shoot anywhere close, a 22 I didn't pick out and don't really like that much, an 870 I have a lot of bird-shot for I've also never shot (only slugs at indoor ranges), and a Franklin Armory AR-15 lower with infinite potential but that potential requires money and my complete funds amount to $5.18 and I need $60 for a video game which is the only thing I will purchase for the remainder of 2014. Oh well at least I can be an internet commando online.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:05:58 AM EST
FireClean...this is the answer.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:54:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mabuckit:
Thanks for the tips. But I've never shot an AR before, or any center fire rifle. I'm a huge gun nerd but being young and without a job really limits the ability to afford a gun, and since I refuse to buy a new gun while the CA gun registration is in effect I'm stuck with a Mosin Nagant that I can't shoot anywhere close, a 22 I didn't pick out and don't really like that much, an 870 I have a lot of bird-shot for I've also never shot (only slugs at indoor ranges), and a Franklin Armory AR-15 lower with infinite potential but that potential requires money and my complete funds amount to $5.18 and I need $60 for a video game which is the only thing I will purchase for the remainder of 2014. Oh well at least I can be an internet commando online.
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It happens man. We were all there at one point in time. Just remember, a lot of the newer shit you see coming out, you really need to take it all with more than a few grains of salt. A lot of it is just solutions in search of problems. Sure, if you need to have the most whiz-bang contraption to come out this week, then by all means, it's your money. It still doesn't mean that it's going to be worth your time or money.

Now, this doesn't apply to all things. Newer optics and accessories do come out that are worlds better than what was available maybe 5 years ago, but when it comes to the basics of the AR system, it is really hard to refine it anymore unless you're willing to step up to a different platform all together.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:43:19 AM EST
I'm a big fan of nitride for corrosion resistance.

But you don't need a shit ton of bells and whistles.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:00:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 11:03:20 AM EST by pointman12]
Stick with a regular BCM BCG and call it a day. Don't fall for the hype of some "special" coating on a BCG, especially if they want to charge an arm and a leg over it.

ETA: The UTG rail covers, grip pod, cheap Chinese scope, and stupid-high scope mount on that company's video you posted tells you everything you need to know about them. Run. Run far away.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:12:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pointman12:
Stick with a regular BCM BCG and call it a day. Don't fall for the hype of some "special" coating on a BCG, especially if they want to charge an arm and a leg over it.

ETA: The UTG rail covers, grip pod, cheap Chinese scope, and stupid-high scope mount on that company's video you posted tells you everything you need to know about them. Run. Run far away.
View Quote

That pretty much sums up what you should be thinking, OP.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:32:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 11:33:58 AM EST by MILSPEC556]
Meh. All of these wonder coatings are just marketing bullshit. I bought an NiB BCG to give it a shot, ended up putting my mil spec BCG back in that rifle and just have the NiB for a backup. I will probably never buy another non phosphated BCG again. ETA- go with 20"
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 10:10:27 PM EST
If you are young and with out a job but, have a mosin, 870 and a .22, I'd say you are doing pretty good. Eventually you'll have the money to build up that lower and you'll have 2 rifles, a shotgun and a .22. It all takes time. I got my first gun at 8. It was a 10-22 that my grandma gave me. I didn't add to my collection of 1 till I was about 19 and got an 870. Then I bought a 30-06 about a year after that. Fast forward till now and I have quite few guns. That same little 10-22 is banging right along with god knows how many thousands of rounds trough it and only about $5 in repairs. I actually put a collapsible stock on it and gave it to my kid when he was about the same age as when I got it. I'm getting off track and distracted by memory lane here but, my point is that if I were you I'd be more concerned with finding ways to get out and use the guns you have right now. That lower isn't going anywhere and over time your collection will fill out.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 8:07:30 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Meh. All of these wonder coatings are just marketing bullshit. I bought an NiB BCG to give it a shot, ended up putting my mil spec BCG back in that rifle and just have the NiB for a backup. I will probably never buy another non phosphated BCG again. ETA- go with 20"
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This.

Link Posted: 10/5/2014 12:41:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2014 12:42:34 PM EST by Vespid_Wasp]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pointman12:
Stick with a regular BCM BCG and call it a day. Don't fall for the hype of some "special" coating on a BCG, especially if they want to charge an arm and a leg over it.

ETA: The UTG rail covers, grip pod, cheap Chinese scope, and stupid-high scope mount on that company's video you posted tells you everything you need to know about them. Run. Run far away.
View Quote


Agree with the second part, but would mildly disagree with the first part.

The QPQ/Melonite finish on JP bolt carriers is superior to a standard phosphate finish. I'm not saying it is a necessity, but the JP carriers are superb.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 1:18:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pointman12:
Stick with a regular BCM BCG and call it a day. Don't fall for the hype of some "special" coating on a BCG, especially if they want to charge an arm and a leg over it.

ETA: The UTG rail covers, grip pod, cheap Chinese scope, and stupid-high scope mount on that company's video you posted tells you everything you need to know about them. Run. Run far away.
View Quote



Good to go with a BCM BCG - nothing else matters. Also, spend the money on things that matter - an optic, and ammo.
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