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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/19/2006 9:39:17 PM EDT
O.K. i just gotta ask....

I KNOW the Feds mandate 16" as the minimum bbl for a rifle, otherwise you are in violation of N.F.A. with a S.B.R.

I know that the legal 16 inches can come several ways, such as the Vietnam 10" XM subgun style bbl with 6" flashhider for 16" total,

Or In my case I'd like a 14.5 inch M-4 type bbl with a long enough flash hider to equal 16" (Phantom, Vortex ect...)

My question is why most makers and dealters have say the flashider has to be PERMANENTLY attached to the bbl.

If this really a Fed. requirement? It seems that if your assembled parts get 16" - you have 16" and are legal. If you take the inches away, while the upper is somehow still mounted on your lower, then YOU messed up and it is YOUR problem should B.A.T.F.E. come a door kicking.

Is there REALLY a Federal requirement that the flashider be PERMENTANTLY fixed to the bbl to make the 16"??

I would like to be able later to upgrade forearms and flashhiders. (of course after seperating the upper and lower to prevent any legal No-Nos!!

Thanks for your insights and Knowledgeable answers on this!

BIGGER_HAMMER


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:53:30 PM EDT
Yes.
If it is not permanantly attached, theoretically, you could swap out flash hiders and have a sub-16 bbl.
Of course, I have yet to see anyone come and check to see if a flashhider is properly or improperly attached.
YMMV
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:04:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 10:07:50 PM EDT by Bigger_Hammer]
In Theory, I could take a hacksaw from my tool box and cut the bbl too short too! (but then the Feds would come in guns a blazing, to shoot my dog, kids & wife!

Does BATFE require the flashider to be permanently fixed to the bbl, or is this "rule" something the makers are doing to try and stay out of legal hot water (in case a client takes off the flash hider and then steps in "the dookie" with the law?)

Thanks!!

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:13:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 10:15:23 PM EDT by FlamingGlory]

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
In Theory, I could take a hacksaw from my tool box and cut the bbl too short too! (but then the Feds would come in guns a blazing, to shoot my dog, kids & wife!

Does BATFE require the flashider to be permanently fixed to the bbl, or is this "rule" something the makers are doing to try and stay out of legal hot water (in case a client takes off the flash hider and then steps in "the dookie" with the law?)

Thanks!!

BIGGER_HAMMER
h.gif


When the FH/FS is permanently attached it is no longer something attached to the barrel. It is part of the barrel, bringing the OAL to 16". If it is removable then it is merely a piece of metal attached to the barrel, not actually part of it, ergo a sub 16" NFA SBR.

Same reason that during the ban muzzle brakes were permanently attached. The barrel is not threaded if the brake is permanently attached, it is part of the barrel itself.

Logical? Hell no but point to a firearm law that is.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:27:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 5:28:20 AM EDT by USMC88-93]
The requirement is for the barrel to be 16 inches (not the barrel + something attached to it)
When the flash hider is permanantly attached to it it becomes part of the barrel since it is no longer removable.

It is a mandatory rule, requirement, law, mandate (however you choose to word it) and is not something you can avoid unless you choose to go Class III and pay the tax stamp for a short barreled rifle.

If you do not permanantly attach the muzzle device to a 14.5 inch barrel you have just that (a 14.5 inch barrel) with something on the end. which would be illegal.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:53:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:

Does BATFE require the flashider to be permanently fixed to the bbl, or is this "rule" something the makers are doing to try and stay out of legal hot water (in case a client takes off the flash hider and then steps in "the dookie" with the law?)



It is a BATFE requirement, not something that manufacturers are doing "just to be safe"

As other have said, a permanent attached item becomes PART of the barrel - something that can be easily unscrewed is not.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:57:24 AM EDT
14.5 with bird cage comes so close to 16 inches
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:00:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 11:07:35 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By FMJ:
14.5 with bird cage comes so close to 16 inches



It is sad that .2 inches, or some silver solder can be the difference between a federal felony and complete legality.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:01:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:37:33 PM EDT
Hi Craig.

Thanks for the benelli stock!

Yes, as people above have said, it's a federal regulation. There are even ATF guidelines as to what "permanent" means in this regard. Welding, blind-pinning, silver-soldering, any one of these or any combination. Adhesives like Loctite, Permatex or Rocksett do not qualify as "permanent." There is no space-age adhesive known to man that can withstand the very long breaker bar that Tech Branch uses to test "permanance."
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:21:38 PM EDT
Thanks All for your insight and information!!


I guess I'll need to find a gun smith some where to silver solder the flash Supressor to the bbl - (assuming I actually were to "have" a 14.5" bbl upper that is..) Nope don't see one around here!!

Thanks

BIGGER_HAMMER


Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:58:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:31:36 PM EDT
but who can actually see that .200 difference just by looking @ a rifle !
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:39:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By renegade0351:
but who can actually see that .200 difference just by looking @ a rifle !



Remember Ruby Ridge?
That shitstorm started over a couple of shotguns that were .26 inches short of the legal limit.
They killed his dog, his son, and his wife, over .26 inches and $200 worth of taxes.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:21:51 PM EDT
I think that CMMG has the 14.5 M4 barrels with an A2 that is 2/10 of an inch longer for sale...
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