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| Quick question. Is the delta ring anodized the same color as the receivers? I've been searching in vain for the buttstock, end plate, and a FH556-216A. I broke down and ordered a Magpul ASAP and I've given up on the buttstock, I'll use one of the others you listed. For any one looking, I saw on Numerich that they have LSO Stowaway pistol grips. You might want to call them and confirm that they are drilled for the selector lever spring, the pic on their sight looks like it doesn't have it. |
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Quick question. Is the delta ring anodized the same color as the receivers? I've been searching in vain for the buttstock, end plate, and a FH556-216A. I broke down and ordered a Magpul ASAP and I've given up on the buttstock, I'll use on of the others you listed. For any one looking, I saw on Numerich that they have LSO Stowaway pistol grips. You might want to call them and confirm that they are drilled for the selector lever spring, the pic on their sight looks like it doesn't have it. Worst case the LSO grip doesn't have the recess and you drill one, I did just that for mine. |
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Quick question. Is the delta ring anodized the same color as the receivers? I've been searching in vain for the buttstock, end plate, and a FH556-216A. I broke down and ordered a Magpul ASAP and I've given up on the buttstock, I'll use on of the others you listed. For any one looking, I saw on Numerich that they have LSO Stowaway pistol grips. You might want to call them and confirm that they are drilled for the selector lever spring, the pic on their sight looks like it doesn't have it. |
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Moving forward with the L119A1 build, the lower is almost complete. The Lone Star Ordnance grip is seen on all the older issue guns. http://i68.tinypic.com/2cqjj1u.png http://i64.tinypic.com/28uochi.png |
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Hey Elucidate,
Thanks for hooking me up on the flash hider! I know it's a long stretch, but I was wondering if there was anyway I can source a L119A1 (ambi loop) and/or C8 (single loop - left) endplate? Or am I out of luck? I'm having a hard time finding good aftermarket solutions. I have had a True North Arms sling loop endplate in my possession if all else fails. Quoted:
Notice the Diemaco/Devtek D forging code and the Cerro keyhole. Colt Canada seems to deviate on forging companies less than Colt US for its military contracts, I don't think I've ever seen a non Cerro military upper, and even the L119A2 lowers have the cerro keyhole on them near the trigger guard. Perhaps the only way to clone this rifle in the USA is to use one of the imported Diemaco uppers that were cut to M4 spec, those were from Anchor Harvey, Brass Aluminum and potentially others, and I'll cover those in an upcoming post. As for what time frame each upper (besides the IUR) was used, I do not have a solid answer for that. I see both older and newer SFW type rifles used Cerro Forge uppers. The earlier uppers with the 1913-MIL-STD were mostly Anchor Harvey forged uppers used by both Canadian C7A1 (later re-barreled into the C7A2) and British L119 SFW rifles. Also Larry Vickers's older TacTV trip to Sweden used a later produced Colt Canada C8-CQB that Aimpoint had on loan for optic testing used an Anchor Harvey upper. Note that rifle probably was produced around the 2010-2015(?) time frame before they switched to Cerro Forge as their primary source of standard Canadian Spec uppers marked with Colt Canada's cage code 2C085. Not to get sidetracked on the L119A1 topic, but continuing on the Diemaco uppers. I have no knowledge of Canadian forges and what symbol corresponds with what. Have any input Canadian brothers? I don't mind corrections. I believe I have seen earlier C7/C8 uppers use a "H" forge code (also seen on Colts). EDIT-(4/19/17): I don't know if the "H" stand for Héroux for C7/C8 lower parts kits, but it definitely is not Héroux in regards to uppers. See below... Also, can anyone identify these forges? 
EDIT: Revisiting this post (4/19/18) Thanks to Lerch, the "double W/chevron" forge code is Waltech Forge. As for the second picture, I still can't find any information regarding that forge code. My educated guess would be Waltech Forge again because it is similar in shape, just completely solid. The "H" forge code from the Colt "C H" uppers are actually Harvey Aluminum. Through my research (and Leg too, thanks!), Diemaco was supplied by Colt with Model 733 type uppers machined by Colt from Harvey Aluminum upper blanks for the first initial batch of C7 rifles in the mid-80's. From reading Larry Vicker's AR15 Vol.2 on the C7 page, I noticed that there was also a "B" forge code along with the classic Devtec D... I have yet to discover what that forging company is. |
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Also, can anyone identify these forges? http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Nordicmarksman/C8%20Uppers/C8%20Upper_4_zpsz6htnl9t.jpg |
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Thanks everyone! I wish I can get a better photo on the second picture. I figured they had H uppers. I know for a fact that grounded off the "R" in the adjustments for their bilingual laws. |
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That's from Chris Bartocci's book right? I'll ask him for the original photo It's not from Chris' book so no further photos. The second photo may be a later Waltec forge code, but that image is from Vickers Guide AR-15 Vol. 2. The second photo is from the Diemaco/Colt Canada section. The gun pictured was the Diemaco LSW sporting a weaver rail with a Diemaco A1 carry handle. |
Got some parts in, I’ve almost got most of the hard to get stuff covered. So far I have a U.K./SAS RAS lower rail, Surefire fh556-216a, large tic safety, Lone Star Ordnance grip and a Colt Canada pebble stock. Luckily everything is new. The last thing to tactical as far as obscure parts is figuring out the barrel. I’ve got a Diemaco/Cerro upper that I sent out to get re-profiled and anodized Colt Canada grey. I’m loving this build so far....
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Got some parts in, I've almost got most of the hard to get stuff covered. So far I have a U.K./SAS RAS lower rail, Surefire fh556-216a, large tic safety, Lone Star Ordnance grip and a Colt Canada pebble stock. Luckily everything is new. The last thing to tactical as far as obscure parts is figuring out the barrel. I've got a Diemaco/Cerro upper that I sent out to get re-profiled and anodized Colt Canada grey. I'm loving this build so far.... https://i.imgur.com/ZuMWy5O.jpg https://i.imgur.com/8UNLM9Z.jpg |
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Got some parts in, I’ve almost got most of the hard to get stuff covered. So far I have a U.K./SAS RAS lower rail, Surefire fh556-216a, large tic safety, Lone Star Ordnance grip and a Colt Canada pebble stock. Luckily everything is new. The last thing to tactical as far as obscure parts is figuring out the barrel. I’ve got a Diemaco/Cerro upper that I sent out to get re-profiled and anodized Colt Canada grey. I’m loving this build so far.... Where is the best source for safeties with tics? All Colts, old and new except SP1, use a line instead of a V notch cut-out. To bad Chris Bartocci wasn't able to get that change order done because, well... Colt being Colt. |
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Quoted: I see you acquired a Colt Canada stock. Very nice. I'm saving mine for my C8-CQB. Since mine is based off one of the earlier models, I'll be using a Colt N1 CAR-15 stock that I just got yesterday. Those stocks are hard enough to source, and I definitely have been deterred from building a C7A2. I probably will focus on the early C7 rifles since that doesn't require unique Canadian parts except for the bolt. Where is the best source for safeties with tics? All Colts, old and new except SP1, use a line instead of a V notch cut-out. To bad Chris Bartocci wasn't able to get that change order done because, well... Colt being Colt. |
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LOVE THIS!!! 
That's just a teaser. Any more, then I would be hijacking this forum to a C8 discussion. 
I probably won't be sending you any receivers for a little while, because Diemaco goodies ain't cheap. I probably will send over my Stowaway grip because it was from a paintball gun and it doesn't have the hole for the spring detent. Also, the Surefire flash hider arrived today. Thanks Elucidate! EDIT: Okay now, I'm just showing off at this point... 
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Stag Arms makes safeties with the V notch. The one I have came out of my factory lower from around 2005. I'm pretty sure their new safeties still have the V notch, however, I think they have started nitriding their small parts. |
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That's just a teaser. Any more, then I would be hijacking this forum to a C8 discussion. B - Why not start a thread on the C8? There are enough differences from the US and the British Guns that it'd be a cool thread! |
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Quoted: Really...? Well then your going to LOOOVE THIS!!! https://i.imgur.com/mN9AXtC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XjF7SHN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IZ1ENB7.jpg That's just a teaser. Any more, then I would be hijacking this forum to a C8 discussion.
I probably won't be sending you any receivers for a little while, because Diemaco goodies ain't cheap. I probably will send over my Stowaway grip because it was from a paintball gun and it doesn't have the hole for the spring detent. Also, the Surefire flash hider arrived today. Thanks Elucidate! EDIT: Okay now, I'm just showing off at this point... https://i.imgur.com/iLNP3Wx.jpg |
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Quoted: I don't know this for sure so don't quote me, but, I think they come from the factory with them. The stock I have came with it attached already, I just put the zip tie on for additional security. The ziptie isn't really needed because the glue is excellent but it doesn't harm either so I always fit it. |
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Really...? Well then your going to LOOOVE THIS!!! https://i.imgur.com/mN9AXtC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XjF7SHN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IZ1ENB7.jpg That's just a teaser. Any more, then I would be hijacking this forum to a C8 discussion.
I probably won't be sending you any receivers for a little while, because Diemaco goodies ain't cheap. I probably will send over my Stowaway grip because it was from a paintball gun and it doesn't have the hole for the spring detent. Also, the Surefire flash hider arrived today. Thanks Elucidate! EDIT: Okay now, I'm just showing off at this point... https://i.imgur.com/iLNP3Wx.jpg Quoted:
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LOVE THIS!!! https://i.imgur.com/mN9AXtC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XjF7SHN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IZ1ENB7.jpg That's just a teaser. Any more, then I would be hijacking this forum to a C8 discussion.
I probably won't be sending you any receivers for a little while, because Diemaco goodies ain't cheap. I probably will send over my Stowaway grip because it was from a paintball gun and it doesn't have the hole for the spring detent. Also, the Surefire flash hider arrived today. Thanks Elucidate! EDIT: Okay now, I'm just showing off at this point... https://i.imgur.com/iLNP3Wx.jpg |
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A - That is awesome, that is a a good collection of very rare parts!!! B - Why not start a thread on the C8? There are enough differences from the US and the British Guns that it'd be a cool thread! Also, I'm having problems figuring out the best LPK to use for the pre-Colt Canada SAS L119A1. For my C8 rifles, they are modern rifles utilizing Schmid Tool as their source for a LPK, so I went with the ALG Defense QMS tigger set, which is better than paying triple for a Colt Canada take-off just too have that "C" stamp on the disconector. They are basically the same simply by the "boxed S" markings all over. I'm trying to find ones made by Colt. Either they are the actually made by colt from the 90s (or earlier), but with 0.170 pins, or they are modern LPK made by the contractor Schmid Tool. Did Diemaco use Schmid Tool LPK for their rifles around 2005? I know for a fact that Colt Canada uses Schmid Tool for all their rifles, including the later C8A3 models and definitely the L119A2. If they did use Schmid Tool in the British contract guns, I would like to avoid having a LPK set without part of the trigger bow cut out on both sides in the middle like this: (These middle section cut-outs are seen on later Colt Canada rifles) 
Am I making too much of a big deal on this? |
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You are correct. The factory fits the Buttpad and it's glued in place there also. The ziptie isn't really needed because the glue is excellent but it doesn't harm either so I always fit it. Left is the green Canadian stock and on the right is a Colt N1 stock take-off from a AR-15A2 sporter (w/ Diemaco-style buttpad) 
Here is the "N" mark on the Colt stock: 
Notice the mold lines here. I've seen both in pictures before. It seems the "replica" resembles the earlier buttpad in Elucidate's picture on his first post here: http://oi67.tinypic.com/97352r.jpg (top rifle w/ buttpad) 
Now this is where it gets interesting. I don't know about earlier Diemaco buttpads, but Colt Canada in traditional Diemaco-style, goes as far as to batch codes their buttpads like their barrels and bolts! A good distinction between real and replica, is the number markings on the inside. 
A closer look. I'm guessing the "3" is a mold number, and the other being the batch code. 
I do plan on zip tying the Colt stock since the replica is slightly easier to take off, but none of the buttpads are going to come off unless you intentionally take it off. I'm not even going to mess with my black Canadian stock because I don't think that sucker is coming off. |
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Don't they use LW Schneider for the small parts? Not sure if they always used them though. |
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One of these popped up for sale locally, figured I'd share the pictures with you guys. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/C8/IMG_2100_redimensionner_zpsdp9m7q6n.jpg C8SFW upper with 10" HB, issued to British RMP CP units and Canadian SOF. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/C8/IMG_2102_redimensionner_zpsxylgcgfv.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/C8/IMG_2103_redimensionner_zpshupvxfm4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/C8/IMG_2112_redimensionner_zpsffbzdlx5.jpg Commonly issued with standard A2 or Smith Vortex G6A2, and Canadian/British KAC RAS. I have armorers manual info showing the large barrels on the A1. So to imitate in the US, the only way i know of would be to use the Colt FBI barrel (11.5") and cut it down. |
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I figured they were all heavy barrels. However, my experience regarding the L119A1, unlike C8 rifles, is limited. The L119 SFW is a heavy barrel, so it makes sense. Not right now, but I am considering selling my unfired BCM SFW upper minus the Simon Sleeve and GUNFIGHTER Mod.0 comp. The barrel profile of that upper is looks close to a Diemaco heavy barrel and 100% exactly the same contour of the Colt 11.5" FBI barrel. The barrel can be trimmed to the correct 10" (or 9.9" whichever) barrel length.
Hit me up if your interested. EDIT (6/13/18): Sold |
| The FBI barrel looks good if you are wanting to go all the way and engrave it with the correct markings. All the colt engravings are on the end of the barrel just above the thread shoulder, so once it's cut down to the right length, those will be gone. The date engraving will still be there, but that's minimal. |
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s:
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/202970 According to the pics, at least one is made in Canada, and is probably from the same batch of rifles from which I posted pics of earlier (on page two) in this thread: 
If you're lucky, you can find out if they still have it (or others like it). If it was indeed from the same batch of rifles that mine was, then it will be chock full of all sorts of Diemaco goodies. |
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s. According to the pics, at least one is made in Canada, and is probably from the same batch of rifles from which I posted pics of earlier on page two in this thread. One can dream though... 
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/202970 Plus with luck I should be able to harvest some Diemaco parts. |
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Thanks! I had to order one as they appear to have the correct barrel profile I need for another clone. Plus with luck I should be able to harvest some Diemaco parts. Quoted:
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/202970 Plus with luck I should be able to harvest some Diemaco parts. |
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Moving forward on the gun, onto the suppressor!
A lot of the parts used on the A1 and A2 are now specific to the UK MoD, insofar as most were normal, over the counter products but have now been superseded and retired, or insome cases, specific UK only products were made. This makes them very hard for an end-user today to obtain. Older products are kept 'current' by manufacturers because the supply contract states only a specific product may be delivered and it must fit a certain set of parameters. Other times the products may contain new technology but might not be available to consumer end users. Examples of this within the L119A2 weapon is the ACOG sight, a UK specific build, which removes the bible scripture seen on US product. Another example is the L119 suppressor, which is the FA556SA. I have not ever seen it for sale in the USA, despite it basically being a copy of the 212 Suppressor. Currently, the suppressor is only being made for the UK MOD contract, but I was able to talk to the right person, and my British accent was brought into play and I have secured the ability to order these suppressors. Surefire actually pulled three suppressors from a currently running production line for me, the timing was perfect because of course the UK does not need very many suppressors, and I happened to ask when a new run was about to start. As such, I got three suppressors, all sequential serials and all from the actual UK production line, so these are as close as one can get to a 'real' UKSF suppressor (although of course mine never made it to England, I intercepted them here in the USA). The bad part, they are NOT cheap. You will pay more for a L119 suppressor by about 1/3rd than you will for a SOCOM RC or RC2. I guess volume and demand is at play here. But, starting from the very end of the gun, lets look at the flash hider. The flash hider for both the L119A1 and L119A2 is the Surefire FH556-216A. 
The flash hider itself has not changed in the time it has been issued. Although there seems to be one example of a Surefire FA556-212 suppressor that has been seen in use, and that was paired with the FA556-212A flash hider, the 216A flash hider is one of the longest standing and most recognizable parts of the L119 series rifles. The British Army continues to use the 216A flash hider and associated systems as it is currently the only Simon/GREM compatible flash hider. The Simon grenade is a rifle mounted high explosive grenade used for barrier entry. It is an Israeli invention and honestly, I have never seen it used. That said, there must be some users somewhere, otherwise Im sure the MOD would have moved onto the superior SOCOM latest generation mounting system by now. For my L119A1 clone, I has happy enough to mount the large and small shims as per the Surefire and MOD manual, but I also have a lathe, AND and I don't like the silver look of the shims against the grey barrel, so I turned down the barrel shoulder a little so as to create a perfect interface to correctly align the flash hider without shims 
Moving onto the suppressor itself, since it's adoption It has been recorded as NSN 1005-01-569-2266 with the Surefire designation of FA556SA. The suppressor attached to the flash hider by a Surefire legacy attachment method, which is that an internal lug slides into a female slot machined into the prongs of the flash hider. 
Current generation mounts index on a locating tab on the rear of the flash hider. As for the suppressor itself, here is where things get interesting. The original suppressors, and on 99% of pictures that are open source today, you see a 6" long unit with a very visible weld about .5cm back from the front face and a locking collar with wide gaps and somewhat sharp edges. When I ordered my suppressors, this is what I thought I was getting. What that suppressor is, is a FA556-212 suppressor with a modified attachment system to work with the 216A flash hider. This is the picture used by both surefire and the MOD within it's documentation 
What I actually got is something that appears to be a mix between a modern SOCOM suppressor and the 556SA. It has a 556SA style front face, with a very slight, almost imperceptible weld for the front cap (like a SOCOM), and a SOCOM style locking collar which is wider, has a nicer release tab and very rounded edges. 
I do not know at this time if the SOCOM improved baffle stack has made its way into this unit or if it retains the older 212 style baffle stack. For me at least, this has helped answer some questions about more recent pictures I have been seeing whereby the UKSF operators appeared to be using SOCOM suppressors, but of course with the 216A, this is just not possible. They are in fact updated FA556SA suppressors. The endcap is still very similar to the 212 series than the RC series 
The suppressors continue to be laser marked with the make, model and NSN as always. Something interesting which is different to my current knowledge of Surefire suppressors is there is a blob of epoxy on the top dead center of the suppressors, which appears to serve as a rough indexing mark. 
Overall on the A1, the suppressor works well and balances well. I'll cover the A2 in the A2 thread. 
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/202970 According to the pics, at least one is made in Canada, and is probably from the same batch of rifles from which I posted pics of earlier (on page two) in this thread: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/alt_images/colt-ar15_2.jpg If you're lucky, you can find out if they still have it (or others like it). If it was indeed from the same batch of rifles that mine was, then it will be chock full of all sorts of Diemaco goodies. |
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Do those guns have the large pin fcg? Quoted:
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I just came across this listing of police trade-in Colt 6520s: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/202970 According to the pics, at least one is made in Canada, and is probably from the same batch of rifles from which I posted pics of earlier (on page two) in this thread: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/alt_images/colt-ar15_2.jpg If you're lucky, you can find out if they still have it (or others like it). If it was indeed from the same batch of rifles that mine was, then it will be chock full of all sorts of Diemaco goodies. I don't remember if the rifle I had was a small or large pin lower, and I can't tell from the pics in the ad. The lowers look to be "restricted" marked, so my hunch would be they are small pin, but I honestly don't know for sure. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. |
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Great work so far! The two photographs of the carbines on the floor are not of captured rifles... that must have been tacked on over the years, hahaha. The original photographs were posted here by an ARFCOM member, the 2008 date sounds about right. IIRC he was an Air Force guy who got a chance to take photographs of coalition partner weapons--you can see his ABUs and pea-soup green boots peeking out in the photographs, hahaha. ~Augee Me. I took those pictures at KAF on June 8, 2008, and posted them here. after this operation Help with rifle IDs |
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Here's a few details I remember about those rifles:
The Surefire lights on them had the same KL4 head I had on the Surefire flashlight (L4 Digital Lumamax) I had during that deployment. Which I thought was odd, because I thought it didn't have enough light even for a flashlight. The suppressor model number I can't remember, and I thought I wrote it down somewhere, but isn't in the 'little green book' I had on that trip (I just looked through it). It was a Surefire model. I did buy a flashhider for that model, which I have in front of me, but it doesn't have any markings on it. Can anyone ID it? It was the exact match to what was on those rifles. 
The acogs were graduated to 1000, which IIRC was a TA01 ECOS model. |
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Oh, yeah, I forgot.
allegedly, captured SAS rifles in Iraq. 
Now they are 'captured'? 
So, shortly after I posted those, someone from here posted them to "militaryphotos.net", in which the pictures were allegedly taken by a USAF JTAC in AFG (I am NOT a JTAC). Then some airsoft company clones the near rifle, down to the SN. Now, 10-years later, they are captured in IRQ. |
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Here's a few details I remember about those rifles: The Surefire lights on them had the same KL4 head I had on the Surefire flashlight (L4 Digital Lumamax) I had during that deployment. Which I thought was odd, because I thought it didn't have enough light even for a flashlight. The suppressor model number I can't remember, and I thought I wrote it down somewhere, but isn't in the 'little green book' I had on that trip (I just looked through it). It was a Surefire model. I did buy a flashhider for that model, which I have in front of me, but it doesn't have any markings on it. Can anyone ID it? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61270/20180216_101718e-453618.jpg The acogs were graduated to 1000, which IIRC was an ECOS model. You're not wrong on the flashlight, flashlight technology for the UK is always about 15 years behind the times. The Flash Hider you linked is the 212A: https://www.surefire.com/fh556-212a.html As far as ID for the specific parts on the rifles you posted, I now have all of that info, as I have been in contact with Surefire, Trijicon, Colt Canada etc. I did not know about the different flashlight head, but I do know the specifics of the ACOG and red dot, I'll post that next. |
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Dude this is AMAZING. Thank you! You're not wrong on the flashlight, flashlight technology for the UK is always about 15 years behind the times. The Flash Hider you linked is the 212A: https://www.surefire.com/fh556-212a.html As far as ID for the specific parts on the rifles you posted, I now have all of that info, as I have been in contact with Surefire, Trijicon, Colt Canada etc. I did not know about the different flashlight head, but I do know the specifics of the ACOG and red dot, I'll post that next. Also, the front looks way thicker than the 212A. Is it an older model? 
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Aaaah, the side on picture is better. That looks to be a Surefire but you're right its thicker. I suspect its an older model.
The 216A flash hiders are different now too, the old ones had serrations on the inside of the prongs. Surefire keeps adapting and changing and not telling anyone. |
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