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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just Leaving This Here (Page 2 of 5)
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Quoted: It's very, very easy to take away. This is commonly done to make AR-180 mags, along with cutting the catch and lowering the BHO notch. Additionally, nobody actually wants to remove the bump, because nobody actually owns a prototype Armalite receiver. Why is this being discussed? 
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Quoted:. It's very, very easy to take away.
This is commonly done to make AR-180 mags, along with cutting the catch and lowering the BHO notch. Additionally, nobody actually wants to remove the bump, because nobody actually owns a prototype Armalite receiver. Why is this being discussed? |
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Without the anti over-insertion “bump”, the magazine would work in prototype rifles AND modern rifles.
With the “bump”, the magazine would only work in modern rifles, unless you pound the bump flat on your nice, new magazine. Even then, the outline of the bump will always be there. That would really detract from the “cool factor”, which is ultimately what these magazines are all about. There are aftermarket AR-15/AR-180 magazines on the market which don’t have the bump, and they work just fine. No matter how hard you “slam” one of these “bumpless” magazines into an AR-15, it won’t over-insert. There is no advantage to having the “bump” on this magazine, but there are disadvantages to having it. So, I vote for “NO BUMP”. |
| The disadvantages to Brownells are significant. They have a far wider market than 150 specialty lower owners. They hope to sell a lot of these prototype magazines, and the likelihood is that 99% of them will be used in normal lowers. If the bolt is to the rear, and there's no bump, and the magazine is slammed home, it can override the magazine catch and insert too far. The bolt is then released, and the gun jams. The noob then pulls out the magazine, flips it over, and says,"This magazine is a piece of shit! Who made it?" |
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I've always liked the idea of a 25 round magazine, retro or no. The retro facsimile makes it cooler, but I've always liked that idea and wanted some. You have to be a real selfish inconsiderate person to expect (or even petition) a large company to cater to you, a small fraction of 1% of their customer base at the expense of the other 99.99% of their customers. Even the king of nitch AR markets disagrees with you... The anti insertion bump exists for a reason! |
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The AR-15 magazine’s anti over-insertion bump is a redundancy in design, sort of like the third “safety lug” on a Mauser 98. If you slam a “bumpless” AR-15 magazine into a modern AR-15, even with the bolt open, it will NOT over-insert. The top of the magazine”s feed lips contact a matching, machined surface on the rifle’s upper receiver, over the full length of both feed lips, when an attempt is made to “over-insert” a magazine. Look through your AR’s ejection port while inserting a magazine and you’ll see how it works. This is the same (and only) way a magazine over-insertion is prevented on the ArmaLite AR-18 rifle, which use “bumpless” magazines exclusively. The notch on the magazine is simply a “why not?” redundant feature which also stops the magazine’s upward travel with the bottom of the magazine catch. It is not the sole, or even the primary magazine over-insertion feature of the AR-15 design. |
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Quoted:
The anti insertion bump exists for a reason! |
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For the 8 million or so AR-15 owners in the U.S. I think the overinsertion bump makes sense- someone (more than one to boot) will figure out a way to overinsert it even with the mag lips hitting the upper. Trust me, being in product design manufacturing in this industry, there are *always* guys who manage to do the impossible and could break an anvil if given 20 minutes.
For the 105 owners of the NDS-15, I think you can send you 25 round magazines to John Thomas to have them altered to look like the exact original 25 rounders. 
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Quoted:
For the 8 million or so AR-15 owners in the U.S. I think the overinsertion bump makes sense- someone (more than one to boot) will figure out a way to overinsert it even with the mag lips hitting the upper. Trust me, being in product design manufacturing in this industry, there are *always* guys who manage to do the impossible and could break an anvil if given 20 minutes.
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Like I said, you have to be a REAL selfish inconsiderate person to even consider requesting this...
To the all 3 of you, hammer them out yourselves. Spoiled brats are lucky you're even getting a 25 rounder, nevermind a retro style one. This crowd will always find something to complain about. |
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Quoted:
Like I said, you have to be a REAL selfish inconsiderate person to even consider requesting this... Why? Read the FACTS To the all 3 of you, hammer them out yourselves. Spoiled brats are lucky you're even getting a 25 rounder, nevermind a retro style one. This crowd will always find something to complain about. |
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Quoted: Maybe you should stay in GD, and not the civilized, non name calling retro forum. You always seen to have a non-negotiable idea, and attack anyone with other SUGGESTIONS, or facts. Quoted: Maybe you should stay in GD, and not the civilized, non name calling retro forum. You always seen to have a non-negotiable idea, and attack anyone with other SUGGESTIONS, or facts. Quoted: Maybe, but those SAME idiots could probably figure out how to overinsert the mags EVEN WITH THE BUMP. For the REST of the 8 million AR owners, the bump is not necessary, and was not a part of the original 25 round mag design. 
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| The IDIOTS that I was referring to are the ones who can manage to break ANYTHING. I was not referring to people in this forum. There are also political IDIOTS, religious IDIOTS, and other forms of IDIOTS that are discussed in the GD, AND personal attacks are SUPPOSED to be saved for GD. |
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Don’t wade over to the BRN-10 discussion about 2 vs 3 vent holes or whether they are oval or round...
Brownells will do what they want to do. I guessed when they posted this in the retro forum, that was who they were appealing to and not too the 8 million other AR owners. No bump works in all lowers. Does the bump add functionality, sure. But so does curving it like the 30 rounders. |
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Quoted:
Don’t wade over to the BRN-10 discussion about 2 vs 3 vent holes or whether they are oval or round... Brownells will do what they want to do. I guessed when they posted this in the retro forum, that was who they were appealing to and not too the 8 million other AR owners. No bump works in all lowers. Does the bump add functionality, sure. But so does curving it like the 30 rounders. |
| Smiling when I read the string... some of the comments are not what I have come to expect from the retro family. No hard feeling though, I think there may be a misunderstanding on talking about details that we love to do vs. complaining. For me personally I’m all in bump or not, but all the details about the bump are spot on and what this family does. They were not on the originals. These are repro’s plain and simple and will always be clones no matter what. The same as the prototype rifles we build. I’m not sure though what the appeal of these magazines is to anyone without a prototype rifle. That said, I want to thank NDS and Brownells for working on these and I truly hope they sell everyone they make. I know I will be ordering more then one. |
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Quoted:. I’m not sure though what the appeal of these magazines is to anyone without a prototype rifle. That said, I want to thank NDS and Brownells for working on these and I truly hope they sell everyone they make. I know I will be ordering more then one. |
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Quoted:
Rough Price? Made by the same company that mags your 20 and 30 round mags, same heat treat, etc? How did you figure out spring length? Do any reliability testing? |
| I've been watching and reading this post with interest. Only question I have is what year did these 25rd prototype magazines come about, late 50's early 60's? And what model of Armalite or Colt would it be correct to shoot them out of? I assume they'll work in any model, but I like to keep history correct if I can. Thanks. |
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From my understanding they were year 0 and only used in the very first AR15 prototypes.
It's too bad that the military went with the 20 round mag instead of adapting the 25 rounder. The 25 round magazine makes sense considering the reduced size / weight of the cartridge vs. the 20 round 7.62 M14 magazines they were using.  
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Quoted:
I've been watching and reading this post with interest. Only question I have is what year did these 25rd prototype magazines come about, late 50's early 60's? And what model of Armalite or Colt would it be correct to shoot them out of? I assume they'll work in any model, but I like to keep history correct if I can. Thanks. EDIT: The pertinent thread can be found here. In it, I cited a page from The Black Rifle that says that the first 10 rifles came with 100 magazines, personally delivered by Eugene Stoner. Others discuss the number of prototype rifles produced in this thread as well. Here's a couple photos of the REAL 25 rounder vs a 20. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: They would have come with the first 40 or so Armalite prototypes (the number produced is disputed) in 1957 and 1958 if I'm not mistaken. There are a couple threads out there discussing the topic, I'll have to go digging. I think in one, @aeyoung was showing off his extensive magazine collection (see last pic since I saved it). I believe he has since parted with that 25 rounder, however. EDIT: The pertinent thread can be found here. In it, I cited a page from The Black Rifle that says that the first 10 rifles came with 100 magazines, personally delivered by Eugene Stoner. Others discuss the number of prototype rifles produced in this thread as well. Here's a couple photos of the REAL 25 rounder vs a 20. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463351/25_v_20-647048.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463351/25_v_20_2-647049.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463351/25_Rounder-647050.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463351/Mags-647051.JPG |
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Quoted:
Realizing that there were three in the thread of yours that I linked
Also enjoy the last post, "Anyway, I'd still love love to see a company do these up." ...that was a little over 4 months ago. |
Cool  I’ll need to grab a few !
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Thank you Brownells!
Looks like the 25 rounder is ~ 6" long (top to bottom on the spine) vs. the 20 rounders roughly 4.875" length, and 30 rounder's 7.125" length. A nice middle ground! |
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Quoted:
Is the 30 rounder the problematic constant curve mag? Attached File |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just Leaving This Here (Page 2 of 5)
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