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Posted: 2/25/2018 8:03:25 PM EDT
I was extremely thankful to the person who sold me these that will remain unnamed. These appear to be only loaded and interested into a rifle once. 2 of them are engraved with an ‘AR 4’ so I’m assuming these are the mags for the prototype #4 rifle. That would make sense as that is the only one that is still US property and not in private hands.
How many mags per rifle did they make? How many total? I will get more pics tomorrow with measurements if needed.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 8:07:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I was extremely thankful to the person who sold me these that will remain unnamed. These appear to be only loaded and interested into a rifle once. 2 of them are engraved with an ‘AR 4’ so I’m assuming these are the mags for the prototype #4 rifle. That would make sense as that is the only one that is still US property and not in private hands. How many mags per rifle did they make? How many total? I will get more pics tomorrow with measurements if needed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/372020/620E8287-52F6-4526-8E7B-3746DD71E7A6-464435.JPG |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Not likely. No way of knowing either so no point
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Posted: 2/25/2018 8:28:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Damn. Outstanding acquisition!
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Posted: 2/25/2018 9:01:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Wtf... you have the best stuff!
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Posted: 2/25/2018 9:24:35 PM EDT
[#5]
OUTSTANDING acquisition!
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:17:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Those are awesome!! Floor plate/follower pictures please.
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:21:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Oh My! Are those actually 25 rounders?
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:32:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh My! Are those actually 25 rounders? |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:33:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are awesome!! Floor plate/follower pictures please. |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:37:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Wow! Incredible find!
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:40:16 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:47:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they stolen government property? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was extremely thankful to the person who sold me these that will remain unnamed. These appear to be only loaded and interested into a rifle once. 2 of them are engraved with an ‘AR 4’ so I’m assuming these are the mags for the prototype #4 rifle. That would make sense as that is the only one that is still US property and not in private hands. How many mags per rifle did they make? How many total? I will get more pics tomorrow with measurements if needed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/372020/620E8287-52F6-4526-8E7B-3746DD71E7A6-464435.JPG 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 10:49:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever wonder the same thing about 1968 amnesty registered M16 receivers? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was extremely thankful to the person who sold me these that will remain unnamed. These appear to be only loaded and interested into a rifle once. 2 of them are engraved with an ‘AR 4’ so I’m assuming these are the mags for the prototype #4 rifle. That would make sense as that is the only one that is still US property and not in private hands. How many mags per rifle did they make? How many total? I will get more pics tomorrow with measurements if needed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/372020/620E8287-52F6-4526-8E7B-3746DD71E7A6-464435.JPG 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:01:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Maybe get with Brownell's so they can make retros?
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:04:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they stolen government property? 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:05:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe get with Brownell's so they can make retros? |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:06:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not retro but I have a CAPCO A2 upper. I called the company to try to get a little info on them and they told me I was in possession of stolen govt property.... Oops, my bad... 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:13:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Great score, can't wait to see more pics!
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Posted: 2/25/2018 11:26:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Wonder how many of those are left intact
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Posted: 2/26/2018 9:14:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I was extremely thankful to the person who sold me these that will remain unnamed. These appear to be only loaded and interested into a rifle once. 2 of them are engraved with an ‘AR 4’ so I’m assuming these are the mags for the prototype #4 rifle. That would make sense as that is the only one that is still US property and not in private hands. How many mags per rifle did they make? How many total? Out of the 30 forging sets made, at least 27 to 29 rifles were created. 4 are known to be in collectors hands, and 5 are known to be in US Army museums. The whereabouts of the other 18 to 20 rifles is a mystery. The 30th set of forgings were in Bob Miller's collection if I remember right. I couldn't find any magazine count in the documents I have. If you figure at least 2 to 4 per rifle, it could be anywhere from 60 to 120. They likely made at least 200 or so given all the testing they did throughout the world. The ones you've got there look absolutely amazing. That they somehow went virtually unused for the last 60 years is astounding. Very nice. |
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Posted: 2/26/2018 10:48:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is these are not made for m16's so they dont fit anyones build. Also they are unmarked so high chance of knock offs unfortunately... |
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Posted: 2/26/2018 12:35:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that they DO NOT FIT anyones build is a GOOD thing. The reproductions could be made so that they DO fit our builds, and thus would be different enough from the originals that nobody could pass them off as originals. |
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Posted: 2/28/2018 9:26:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Wow those are spectacular, Alex has the ability to obtain the unobtainable, many thanks for the great parts I've bought from you over the years
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Posted: 2/28/2018 10:36:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Knight owns #4. Out of the 30 forging sets made, at least 27 to 29 rifles were created. 4 are known to be in collectors hands, and 5 are known to be in US Army museums. The whereabouts of the other 18 to 20 rifles is a mystery. The 30th set of forgings were in Bob Miller's collection if I remember right. I couldn't find any magazine count in the documents I have. If you figure at least 2 to 4 per rifle, it could be anywhere from 60 to 120. They likely made at least 200 or so given all the testing they did throughout the world. The ones you've got there look absolutely amazing. That they somehow went virtually unused for the last 60 years is astounding. Very nice. |
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Posted: 2/28/2018 10:37:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow those are spectacular, Alex has the ability to obtain the unobtainable, many thanks for the great parts I've bought from you over the years |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 1:48:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did not know so many were made. I always believed it was under 10 but good to know. Any more info in any books about this? We know from photos that Knight presently owns X01 (THE prototype), as well as #1 and #4. The Rifleman LLC. owned #2 and #3 as of last year. Those are the only known prototypes in "collectors" hands, if you count Knight as a private collector and not another museum. The museum at Aberdeen held #7 on public display until it was closed several years ago. Springfield has #8 on display in its museum and has #6, #11, #22, and #27 in it's collection. They have photos of these in their online archive. That's it as far as what is known to be left to the best of my knowledge. The May 27, 1958 Evaluation of SVHC Rifles from Fort Benning lists rifles #12, #13, #16, and #17 as being used in their testing. The Dec. 26, 1958 report from Aberdeen Proving Ground lists rifles #10, #14, #18 being tested repeatedly and briefly mentions #5 having previously been tested. Where any of those ended up is anyone's guess. Furthermore, that still leaves #9, #15, #19, #20, #21, #23, #24, #25, and #26 unaccounted for in documentation or photography. If we go out on a limb and assume ArmaLite made 39, that also leaves #28-#39 unaccounted for as well. I think, definitively, we can say that they made at least 27 and that, today, we only know of 10 that survive, not counting the X01 prototype. That's quite a bit of "missing" hardware and potential accessories. |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 2:44:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately no. On page 61 of The Black Rifle, there is a photo of a set of prototype forgings and an accompanying note from Jim Sullivan. It states that the forging set is one of 40 made by Harvey Aluminum in 1959. Obviously that's a bit late as the rifles were tested in 1958. I believe someone, either Sullivan, or the author, got the date wrong. In either case, this seems to indicate that perhaps as many as 39 rifles could have been made (as we must discount the unfinished forging set). We know from photos that Knight presently owns X01 (THE prototype), as well as #1 and #4. The Rifleman LLC. owned #2 and #3 as of last year. Those are the only known prototypes in "collectors" hands, if you count Knight as a private collector and not another museum. The museum at Aberdeen held #7 on public display until it was closed several years ago. Springfield has #8 on display in its museum and has #6, #11, #22, and #27 in it's collection. They have photos of these in their online archive. That's it as far as what is known to be left to the best of my knowledge. The May 27, 1958 Evaluation of SVHC Rifles from Fort Benning lists rifles #12, #13, #16, and #17 as being used in their testing. The Dec. 26, 1958 report from Aberdeen Proving Ground lists rifles #10, #14, #18 being tested repeatedly and briefly mentions #5 having previously been tested. Where any of those ended up is anyone's guess. Furthermore, that still leaves #9, #15, #19, #20, #21, #23, #24, #25, and #26 unaccounted for in documentation or photography. If we go out on a limb and assume ArmaLite made 39, that also leaves #28-#39 unaccounted for as well. I think, definitively, we can say that they made at least 27 and that, today, we only know of 10 that survive, not counting the X01 prototype. That's quite a bit of "missing" hardware and potential accessories. |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 3:11:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately no. On page 61 of The Black Rifle, there is a photo of a set of prototype forgings and an accompanying note from Jim Sullivan. It states that the forging set is one of 40 made by Harvey Aluminum in 1959. Obviously that's a bit late as the rifles were tested in 1958. I believe someone, either Sullivan, or the author, got the date wrong. In either case, this seems to indicate that perhaps as many as 39 rifles could have been made (as we must discount the unfinished forging set). We know from photos that Knight presently owns X01 (THE prototype), as well as #1 and #4. The Rifleman LLC. owned #2 and #3 as of last year. Those are the only known prototypes in "collectors" hands, if you count Knight as a private collector and not another museum. The museum at Aberdeen held #7 on public display until it was closed several years ago. Springfield has #8 on display in its museum and has #6, #11, #22, and #27 in it's collection. They have photos of these in their online archive. That's it as far as what is known to be left to the best of my knowledge. The May 27, 1958 Evaluation of SVHC Rifles from Fort Benning lists rifles #12, #13, #16, and #17 as being used in their testing. The Dec. 26, 1958 report from Aberdeen Proving Ground lists rifles #10, #14, #18 being tested repeatedly and briefly mentions #5 having previously been tested. Where any of those ended up is anyone's guess. Furthermore, that still leaves #9, #15, #19, #20, #21, #23, #24, #25, and #26 unaccounted for in documentation or photography. If we go out on a limb and assume ArmaLite made 39, that also leaves #28-#39 unaccounted for as well. I think, definitively, we can say that they made at least 27 and that, today, we only know of 10 that survive, not counting the X01 prototype. That's quite a bit of "missing" hardware and potential accessories.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 4:29:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There’s one on display at the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning. I don’t know which Serial #, but a buddy sent me this pic when he was going through Airborne this summer because he knew that I’m into the retros.
It still has the trigger charger and hasn't been threaded. The serial number side is facing the public as well. I wish I could get a closer look. |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 5:57:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks like it might be one "we" haven't seen before.
It still has the trigger charger and hasn't been threaded. The serial number side is facing the public as well. I wish I could get a closer look.  I'll be at fort Benning this summer for Airborne, so if no info comes up until then, i'll figure it out in June when I get there.EDIT: I have a few buddies stationed there right now. I'll ask if one can go in and figure it out for us 
EDIT AGAIN: ...he lives right across the street. He'll go tomorrow 
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Posted: 3/2/2018 8:30:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Wonderful museum. Wish I could find my pics...
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Posted: 3/6/2018 11:47:48 PM EDT
[#32]
In lieu of starting a new thread, I am posting these pictures here. This 25rd Armalite magazine is a friend of mines, it is #6 or maybe #9. We are trying to find out how many of these magazines were made.
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Posted: 3/7/2018 12:19:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In lieu of starting a new thread, I am posting these pictures here. This 25rd Armalite magazine is a friend of mines, it is #6 or maybe #9. We are trying to find out how many of these magazines were made.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 5:46:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I posted a picture from this page on another thread, but it’s relevant here... This may be a start. Assuming 10 per rifle, as many as 390 mags? Maybe after the first 10, they made less mags per rifle, who knows. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463351/0753F615-0C51-48CD-94E5-1AC1482A772C-474189.JPG |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 8:11:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What book is that from? Interesting they went to Fort Greely... I am very close to there. Wonder if they still have the rifles or any parts... |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 5:47:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Well, it wasn’t the one day turn around I said, but here’s a couple of teaser pictures... I’ll put the more detailed ones in once I get them.
In the display case at the Infantry Museum in Fort Benning, GA:  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 6:58:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Well, I'll be... It's number 13.
That's one of the rifles they tested in '58. I'd almost bet they have the other 3 in storage somewhere. I wonder if they're transferable?
What's up with that sling? It looks like it's got some kind of claw keeper... and maybe it's wrapped in tape? |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 7:17:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I'll be... It's number 13.
That's one of the rifles they tested in '58. I'd almost bet they have the other 3 in storage somewhere. I wonder if they're transferable?
What's up with that sling? It looks like it's got some kind of claw keeper... and maybe it's wrapped in tape?   And yeah, it'd be interesting to see what they have. I'll probably post all of the pictures compiled into one thread. The 601 in the case looked like it had one of the prototype forward assists.
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Posted: 3/7/2018 8:07:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was looking at that as well. Early prototype sling? And yeah, it'd be interesting to see what they have. I'll probably post all of the pictures compiled into one thread. The 601 in the case looked like it had one of the prototype forward assists.I have a strap like it but it is too short to be used as a rifle sling. Has the same hardware but only 2' long. GI's have used lots of non issue slings but I wonder if that is period. What I have looks more like 80's issue to me. |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 8:21:48 PM EDT
[#40]
It's not a sling. It's an equipment strap. Same buckle and diameter as used on all things like ammo can tie downs in tanks/apcs and gobs of applications of varying lengths. I've seen such straps with that closure from 6" long to 6 foot long , from cotton to nylon construction while I was in uniform.
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Posted: 3/7/2018 8:50:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a sling. It's an equipment strap. Same buckle and diameter as used on all things like ammo can tie downs in tanks/apcs and gobs of applications of varying lengths. I've seen such straps with that closure from 6" long to 6 foot long , from cotton to nylon construction while I was in uniform. 
ePay links don't work anymore so search 152757598032 if you want a new rifle sling! |
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Posted: 3/7/2018 9:09:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I found it! ePay links don't work anymore so search 152757598032 if you want a new rifle sling! |
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Posted: 4/2/2018 12:08:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Wow. This is amazing!
I would love it if someone repro'd these and improved the design so it needs reliably. I understand this is difficult due to the taper of 5.56/.223 casings, I can dream, right? |
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Posted: 4/2/2018 12:59:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. This is amazing! I would love it if someone repro'd these and improved the design so it needs reliably. I understand this is difficult due to the taper of 5.56/.223 casings, I can dream, right? |
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Posted: 4/2/2018 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I recently moved to NH so I'm good. Haven't been online since I moved.
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Posted: 4/2/2018 5:11:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Anyway, I'd still love love to see a company do these up.
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