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Posted: 1/22/2022 2:28:09 PM EDT
First it was the whole URG-I debacle.  Then the silent switch to using cheap black oxide finish on their barrels.  Now they are using the shittiest anodizing on their handguards that I have ever seen on AR-15 components .  I’ve seen cheap engine block paint that has a better feel and look than the crap that’s on the MK14 rail that I just received.

This anodizing has a very "gritty" feel to it and a very cheap look to it.  This anodizing is so shitty that handling the handguard with your bare hands creates a white, chalky finish on the surface of the handguard.  The white finish can be scrubbed off with CLP, but as soon as you handle the handguard with bare hands again, you're back to the white chalky finish.  None of this has ever occurred with the older black Geissele handguards that I have.

Yes, it’s “just a tool”. But for the $268 that I paid for this handguard, the anodizing should be better than what's found on cheap airsoft components.

I specifically purchased this handguard in black because that’s what Geissele recommends that you should do if you’re not interested in the constantly varying shades of their DDC components and you’re unable to appreciate the “unique” black lines found in the finish of the DDC MK16 handguards sold to us civilians.

Maybe Geissele should just advertise the color of this new black anodizing as ZEBRA. This is all truly pathetic for a handguard that Geissele is charging $275 for on their website.  PATHETIC.  Buyer beware.

The handguard pictured on top is what black anodizing should look and feel like. The handguard on the bottom is the piece of shit that I just received.









….



Quoted:
From Geissele: “High pressure sand blasting is not as aggressive as shot blasting but the parts inevitably have a dull black, chalky finish after anodizing.”
https://geissele.com/support/#anodize-shade-variations-and-finish-methods
View Quote


Geissele is saying that is how other manufacturers do their cheap finishes and claiming Geissele doesn't finish their components like that.  Instead, they're saying that Geissele is finishing their components by:

"Geissele weapons stand out on the firing line.  I want it that way.  Their distinctive color and smooth and lustrous finish is immediately noticeable when a shooter picks up a Geissele rifle.   One way to make a weapon with this velvety, luxurious look that feels so good in the hand is to use very gentle hand and machine finishing methods to smooth the surface of the aluminum."


So Geissele has clearly stooped to doing the cheap method of finishing their components while still charging their high prices and not being honest with their customers that this is what they have resorted to.  PA-THET-IC.





....
.....



Quoted:
Recent (non-blem) DDC receiver set I ordered looked the same. Dull, chalky finish quality.  Nothing like the older Geissele/ALG products I own. Pretty disappointing.
View Quote



Quoted:
I had an older SSA, 2016 era that was great. I decided to get another in 2020.  It felt far worse and had noticable grit, even in multiple lowers, grease, no grease. Tried emailing GA's CS, no dice. Tried calling, was on hold for 50 minutes. Gave up then.
View Quote



Quoted:
Ordered a fed green G rail a few years back which was an obvious blem.  I emailed CS regarding it and never received a response back.  I ended up just putting the damn thing on a rifle, but I was disappointed in how they treated me as a customer.  Used to be a G fan, no more.
View Quote



Quoted:
I’ve dealt with Geiessele customer service twice, first time I so pissed I hung up after being on hold for 38 minutes if I remember, called ban about a hour later and was put on hold again, then got passed around with no resolution, emailed them and nothing. I love their rails, was going to order up another one this week and a barrel, now I don’t know? I refuse to use their CS and would rather call the IRS or Verizon.
View Quote



Quoted:
I'm in the category of was a G fan boy before the MK16 stuff. I messaged them on IG asking what happened to the MK16 thread on arfcom and wanted to know what their statement to the public officially was and they blocked me without replying. After spending thousands on G products and recommending G to my friends and selling thousands more for them this was a stiff slap to the face.
View Quote



Quoted:
I have seen several posts and threads here citing the poor CS & sub par product.
View Quote



Quoted:
G's CS is terrible.
View Quote



Quoted:
G is having plenty of comments about QA issues and extremely poor CS.
View Quote



Quoted:
Go to the G industry page.  You can’t say anything questioning G without massive fanboy blowback.  
View Quote



Quoted:


Not only is Geissele getting a reputation for crumbling quality, the company's stance on cornering instances such as posts like this one has always been to pretend like it's not happening.
View Quote



Quoted:
The thing is G’s quality or lack there of has seemingly become common place.
View Quote



Quoted:
a large amount of people are upset about the quality of Geissele's product and service
View Quote



.....
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:36:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Dude... Maybe you should moisturize if your hands are that chalky?

Just saying
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:39:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Dude... Maybe you should moisturize if your hands are that chalky?

Just saying
View Quote


The woman in your avatar is amazing.

...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:41:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The woman in your avatar is amazing.

...
View Quote


She really, really likes guys that post in depth accuracy reports....
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:44:29 PM EDT
[#4]
I was gonna say apply some oil.. see how it feelz.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:54:23 PM EDT
[#5]
I've Had new anodized parts that are chalky at first and over time with oil and use they feel and look better.


Link Posted: 1/22/2022 2:59:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Is there a little Blemula dude on the bottom of that handguard?
That looks quite shitty IMO.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:01:00 PM EDT
[#7]
lol my SR15 was chalkier than that.

Rub some oil on it, wipe it off, good to go.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:06:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rub some oil on it, wipe it off, good to go.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rub some oil on it, wipe it off, good to go.

Reading is fundamental.  From my original post . . .

Quoted:
The white finish can be scrubbed off with CLP, but as soon as you handle the handguard with bare hands again, your back to the white chalky finish.  None of this has ever occurred with older black Geissele handguards that I have.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:10:29 PM EDT
[#9]
I swung by their booth at SHOT and handled some rifles.  I was not impressed with the look and feel of their handguards. The one I handled was so shiny and slick. I'll stick with my BCM uppers.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:12:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'll stick with my BCM uppers.
View Quote


All of my BCM handguards have been properly anodized.




...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:19:27 PM EDT
[#11]
white is part of the anodizing and not unusual; should resolve as oil absorbs in to the finish

just liberally apply basic lubricating oil and allow it time to soak in before wiping the excess (might have to repeat a few times): hold off on the CLP for now as it has solvent properties
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:22:39 PM EDT
[#12]
As an owner of original and recent MK16 handguards I agree the finish feels crappy and gritty now.

It's a shame. The old stuff I have is damn near perfect.

I wish they would address what the deal was with the Mk16s bending so easily.

Now put some lotion on them ashy hands!
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:23:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Bill will address this after the holidays
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:23:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As an owner of original and recent MK16 handguards I agree the finish feels crappy and gritty now.

It's a shame. The old stuff I have is damn near perfect.
View Quote



Yes. "Gritty".  That's the word I was looking for.  Added to the original post.

...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:28:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
just liberally apply basic lubricating oil and allow it time to soak in before wiping the excess (might have to repeat a few times):
View Quote


I never had to do any of that with my older Geissele black handguards.

Mk8




Mk14



..
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bill will address this after the holidays
View Quote
Valentines? Presidents Day? Easter?
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:35:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I never had to do any of that with my older Geissele black handguards.

..
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
just liberally apply basic lubricating oil and allow it time to soak in before wiping the excess (might have to repeat a few times):


I never had to do any of that with my older Geissele black handguards.

..

i know its such a colossal inconvenience....

if it doesn't resolve it, there may have been issue during the anodizing. give Bill a holler if so
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:39:02 PM EDT
[#18]
i see theyve adopted kac's anodizing
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:39:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
if it doesn't resolve it, there may have been issue during the anodizing. give Bill a holler if so
View Quote


Crap like this should have never gone out the door.  Did Geissele get rid of their quality assurance staff?

...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:42:51 PM EDT
[#20]
KAC & LMT MLR rails do the same shit
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 3:54:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is there a little Blemula dude on the bottom of that handguard?
View Quote


No.  This is a new, first-run item.

...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:03:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Should have waited for the ris iii
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:04:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Yep, they use to make some great stuff.  Seems like they've fallen into the , just consider yourself lucky to get the box.  Hell I can't even keep the floor staffedd.. Well tough shit, I'd rather not have anything than subpar shit.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:05:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Ya fuck all that. I’ll stay with the bcm
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:08:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
white is part of the anodizing and not unusual; should resolve as oil absorbs in to the finish

just liberally apply basic lubricating oil and allow it time to soak in before wiping the excess (might have to repeat a few times): hold off on the CLP for now as it has solvent properties
View Quote



I've owned over 25 different AR-15s plus an AR-10 and an M1A and I'm most likely missing some.

I have NEVER see a finish like this at all and I would be as pissed a Molon is.

I am not an apologist for shoddy work especially at those top tier prices.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:09:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Anodized parts have to be oiled. The surface is rough to trap and retain lube. Oil it up and be done.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:09:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Several folks didn’t seem to even read the entire post before responding.

Some here seem to also forget that anodizing isn’t just for aesthetics; properly anodized products are more protected against corrosion than their raw counterparts.

Companies shouldn’t market their products as premium if they’re going to put out shit like this.

KAC’s can come ashy as some have mentioned, but they darken up with oil unlike this one. Geissele also markets their finishes as a selling point and KAC is more of a “tool brand”, which I prefer. I feel the same way about LMT. Oil will also not remove the gritty texture.

@Molon, the good news, if any, is that Geissele CS has made leaps and bounds in the last two years. I generally avoid their products, but they do make a good HK rail and they were quick to help me out. Two years ago they would just ignore emails about out of spec LPK’s.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:10:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Damn! Are you sure that not Chinese counterfeit?
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:17:54 PM EDT
[#29]
and also the dumb asses discontinued  their line of ALG handguards which were my personal favorites.


I wonder if their $400 arca rail handguard has the shit finish.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:17:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Damn! Are you sure that not Chinese counterfeit?
View Quote


Yup.




.....
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:19:20 PM EDT
[#31]
the Mk8's from years ago are damn near perfect.
the Mk14 i bought 2 years ago, damn near perfect.
the Mk16 i bought 2 weeks ago looks the same as the rail you have, it has more of the KAC and BCM anodized finish.
if i accidentally drag my finger nail down any of them while putting on a attachment it leaves a mark, but it easily rubs off.
idk what they changed but the finish just aint what it was.

at least it isnt as bad as the 17 Design stripped lowers
that shit is horrible. i tried adding oil to the lower, but now its just a greasy ass navy blue color.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:27:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Anodized parts have to be oiled. The surface is rough to trap and retain lube. Oil it up and be done.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Anodized parts have to be oiled. The surface is rough to trap and retain lube. Oil it up and be done.



From my previous posts . . .

Quoted:
The white finish can be scrubbed off with CLP, but as soon as you handle the handguard with bare hands again, your back to the white chalky finish.  None of this has ever occurred with older black Geissele handguards that I have.




Quoted:

I never had to do any of that with my older Geissele black handguards.

Mk8




Mk14



..





Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:28:06 PM EDT
[#33]
I’m not in the market but I’d be curious to see how the PA expo arms rails stack up against the G rails.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:31:13 PM EDT
[#34]
This not like the typical Molon post we are used to…and I love it!

I agree with the quality slip of G.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:32:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Anodized parts have to be oiled. The surface is rough to trap and retain lube. Oil it up and be done.
View Quote
You're thinking of parkerized.
Anodization is a process whereby the surface of the aluminum is chemically hardened with pores that can accept dye or be left undyed. Post-dye, it needs a second run in the tank to close the pores up.
There could be several possibilities on what is going on here. If the part sit out too long post-deox, they will oxidize back up (aluminum oxidizes amazingly fast!) leaving a poor surface from the get go and will not give a good finish no matter what. Only cure here is to drop it in the deox again, then rinse and put in the anodizing tank.
I suspect in this case, however, it's never gotten the seal or it has not gotten enough seal.
Anodizing well is a pain in the ass and requires a lot of QC at every step (is the tech keeping an eye on the tank temp and makeup?)
I would personally return that rail and explain exactly what you see.
A properly anodized part should NEVER have a permeable finish.

Nick
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:34:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Maybe just buy triggers from a trigger company?
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:36:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Maybe just buy triggers from a trigger company?
View Quote


I've spent thousands of dollars on their triggers, scope mounts and handguards; but it looks like you're right.

...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:39:26 PM EDT
[#38]
I can just see Geissel fan boys all over the country rending their clothes and crying, “SAY IT AIN’T SO MO!”
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:45:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You're thinking of parkerized.
Anodization is a process whereby the surface of the aluminum is chemically hardened with pores that can accept dye or be left undyed. Post-dye, it needs a second run in the tank to close the pores up.
There could be several possibilities on what is going on here. If the part sit out too long post-deox, they will oxidize back up (aluminum oxidizes amazingly fast!) leaving a poor surface from the get go and will not give a good finish no matter what. Only cure here is to drop it in the deox again, then rinse and put in the anodizing tank.
I suspect in this case, however, it's never gotten the seal or it has not gotten enough seal.
Anodizing well is a pain in the ass and requires a lot of QC at every step (is the tech keeping an eye on the tank temp and makeup?)
I would personally return that rail and explain exactly what you see.
A properly anodized part should NEVER have a permeable finish.

Nick
View Quote


I never should have sold my JP Enterprises handguards.  Their anodizing is amazing.







....
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wonder if their $400 arca rail handguard has the shit finish.
View Quote


I was going to purchase one of their $1350 upper receiver groups to conduct an accuracy evaluation of and post the results.  I think I'll be removing that idea from The List.


...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:10:30 PM EDT
[#41]
They have a comment about the anodizing on their website. I agree, the lack of a smooth deep black finish is not preferable. I still love the handguard though.

Your nail brushing up against the finish is annoying because of the line it leaves due to the rough texture. I have a cheap blem PSA lower that came with the same finish. The finish on my other anodized parts like my Aero Precision handguard & receivers, and my BCM receiver extensions is more pleasing. I have considered painting it, but I'll get over it. I would not have accepted a purple handguard. Now that shit is unforgivable.

https://geissele.com/anodize-shade-variations-and-finish-methods/
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:13:31 PM EDT
[#42]
You should have Bill call you.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:30:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Yup.  I'm aware of all that and the anodizing in the pics at that link looks 1000 times better than the piece of shit that I just received.  And as I've mentioned before, the anodizing on my older black Geissele handguards looks 1000 times better than the piece of shit that I just received.





...
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:34:40 PM EDT
[#44]
There will be excuses and attempts to normalize it. But the truth is even China manages to anodize without this happening.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:41:18 PM EDT
[#45]
BFPU look is in style
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:41:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This not like the typical Molon post we are used to…and I love it!

I agree with the quality slip of G.
View Quote


Molon is spicy af some times
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:42:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
BFPU look is in style
View Quote



LULZ.  Where are the G rails made? Do they finish them in house?
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:45:07 PM EDT
[#48]
I've had a black ALG V2X EMR in a box for about 2 years, it went on a build recently and the first thing I noticed handling it was the amount of "ashyness" all over the rail from my dry hands. Doesn't seem to happen with my other black aluminum handguards. However I also didn't pay the money you did so it doesn't bother me.
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:47:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've spent thousands of dollars on their triggers, scope mounts and handguards; but it looks like you're right.


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe just buy triggers from a trigger company?


I've spent thousands of dollars on their triggers, scope mounts and handguards; but it looks like you're right.





I’m kinda disappointed in your post honestly.
It’s not like you to jump on a company because of one bad experience, especially before even contacting them first to give them a chance to resolve it. You make the statement above after slamming them because you had one bad experience personally?
Just because they may have had a bad run is not a reason to run to ARFCOM like some shitty troll and bash them. That’s not like you Molon, at least not like I have read over the last decade or so. ….

Just chill man and call them Monday, sorry you got your feelings hurt here but damn man, at least give them a chance…..

Oh look, the UPS girl just dropped off my new MK4….. Wow! Look, no anodizing issues…. amazing!

Relax man have a beer.

Cp
Link Posted: 1/22/2022 5:51:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Shoot it? My rail(s) get multiple scuffs, scratches dings etc.. but meh. I understand paying XX amount for something an expecting quality to be such, case in point my $530 knife, that actually did have mediocre anodizing. But it's carried near daily, so whatever not a wall hanger.
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