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Posted: 1/2/2003 3:48:17 PM EDT

With reports like this presented to the mainstream public versus the lesser published data from the pro gun lobby we can surely bet that the AWB will not sunset next September.

Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:58:40 PM EDT
Check out that California dealers "evil arsenal" of bolt-action rifles & pump shotguns! Those must be outlawed now..... for the children.... [:(!]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:04:19 PM EDT
OK, here is a solution: You shoot someone (As in a crime, NOT self defense), YOU are responsible for their medical care.

There! Now the burden is on folks that commit attempted murder! (Maybe they'll become better shots instead...)
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:23:06 PM EDT
No data on gun type. Pistol vs. Rifle. I'll bet the most evil assault rifle is safer than most pistols
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 10:43:58 PM EDT
Ya'll got to realize that MSNBC is DEAD LAST in the cable ratings.

Outside of the anchor's immediate family, no one is watching.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 11:42:27 PM EDT
Don't forget 9 poster Bbwlliams...

In all reality this is the same type of a bullshit "study" that Harborview Hospital did (with funding from the Insurance Institute Highway for Safety**) about the cost to "the taxpayer" of uninsured motorcyclists accidents.
Of course they left out the part about the injured motorcyclists SUEING the fucking morons who hit them to cause the accident in the first place. The part where the settlement goes back to the hospital to cover costs of the health care.

Then look at the data. It's from 1997! Now that's some recent and accurate data for sure...NOT!

Break down the stats...oops, they don't even list the numbers for all catagories. You KNOW someone is fucking with the numbers when they do that.

Let's see where the researchers work.

Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Violence and Injury Control-
Firmly Anti-Gun.
You have to look into their links section to see. Both of these links contain links to anti-gun outfits. It's not what they say out front, it's what they DON'T say.

Federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality
They list studies done by Kellerman, that puts them into the anti-gun camp.

But wait, it gets better. The next post will have the actual study!

NBC says:
More than half the shootings occurred during assaults, about 30 percent were accidental and 8 percent were self-inflicted. The cause of the others could not be determined.

Allegheny General Hospital says:
Assault accounted for 54% of cases, unintentional injuries accounted for 31% and self-inflicted injuries accounted for 8%.

*IIHS - The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute are independent, nonprofit, research and communications organizations funded by auto insurers and dedicated to reducing highway crash deaths, injuries, and property losses.

Ya'll got to realize that MSNBC is DEAD LAST in the cable ratings.
Outside of the anchor's immediate family, no one is watching.
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 11:44:10 PM EDT
AGH Study Shows Firearm Injuries Place Significant Economic Burden on American Hospitals

Injuries Rank Highest in Number and Length of Uninsured Hospital Stays

January 02, 2003: Each year more than 35,000 Americans are admitted to U.S. hospitals as the result of firearm related injuries, the cost of treating whom, in hospital charges alone, totals more than $800 million, according to a study published today in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine by researchers from Allegheny General Hospital (AGH) in Pittsburgh and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Service's Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ).  

A first of its kind report, the study also shows that 29 percent of firearm victims have no health insurance to pay for their care, the financial burden of which falls largely on the shoulders of urban teaching hospitals.

Jeffrey Coben, M.D., an emergency medicine specialist and director of AGH's Center for Violence and Injury Control, conducted the study to illustrate the significant economic burden such injuries place on hospitals and healthcare systems nationwide. Claudia Steiner, M.D., MPH, a research scientist for AHRQ, served as the article's co-author.

Data for Drs. Coben and Steiner's analysis was obtained from the government's Healthcare Cost and Utilization Project (HCUP), maintained by the AHRQ. The information is derived from 1997 hospital discharge summaries and abstracts, created by hospitals primarily for billing and payment purposes. The hospital discharge summary contains patient demographic information, condition status, medical and/or surgical procedures received, and other factors about a hospital stay. Hospitals in many states provide discharge summaries to the state government, a hospital association, or some other designated health information organization.

Coben and Steiner found that an estimated 35,810 cases of firearm-related injury occurred nationwide in 1997. Of those, assault was the leading cause of firearm-related hospitalization, followed by unintentional injury. The average length of stay for patients with firearm-related injuries was 6 days, with an estimated total of 111,506 hospital days for firearm assault cases and 214,372 hospital days for all firearm-related cases. The average hospital charge for an assault related firearm case was $23,904, while the average charge associated with self-inflicted injury was $30,201. Forty-nine percent of the estimated $2.3 billion in lifetime medical costs for victims of firearm injuries was expected to be paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

"With the vast majority of firearm related injuries being treated at urban teaching hospitals and academic medical centers, such institutions incur a disproportionate associated economic burden. Firearm-related injuries rank highest among all conditions in the number of uninsured hospital stays, and the average length of stay is much longer compared with other medical conditions. The further development of firearm-related injury surveillance systems is vital in order to provide objective and nonpartisan information for future policy decisions that address this major public health issue," said Dr. Coben, who conducted the firearm study while serving as a Senior Scholar-in-Residence for Domestic Violence within AHRQ's Center for Outcomes and Effectiveness Research.

"The cost of death and injury resulting from gun violence is tremendous not only in terms of medical expenses, but in terms of lives lost, time away from work, and its effect on families and communities," said Aurelio Rodriquez, M.D., Director, AGH's Level One Shock Trauma Center. Dr. Rodriquez said the typically severe nature of firearm injuries requires substantial medical expertise and resources.

Study data revealed that approximately one thousand small bowel resections were required in 1997 as a result of firearm-related injuries in addition to 2,500 intracranial injuries and another 669 spinal cord injuries. Among the study's other findings:

* 86 percent of firearm-related injury cases were male.

* Assault accounted for 54% of cases, unintentional injuries accounted for 31% and self-inflicted injuries accounted for 8%.

* Seven percent of all firearm related cases died during hospitalization, compared to a 2.5% in-hospital death rate for all medical conditions.

* Approximately 60 percent of those sustaining firearm injuries were younger than 30 years of age.

* Firearm-related hospitalizations occurred most often on Saturdays and Sundays.

* The type of firearm most commonly implicated was a handgun, followed by shotgun and rifle.

"Firearm-related injuries are a significant public health problem in the United States. In 1997, gunshots resulted in 32,436 fatalities and over 6,400 nonfatal injuries requiring treatment in U.S. hospital emergency departments. Firearm-related injuries rank as the second leading cause of injury death behind motor vehicles and in many communities violence is the leading cause of death among young people. There have been, in general, relatively few assessments of the economic cost of such violence," Coben said.

Established in 1997, the Center for Violence and Injury Control (CVIC) serves as an interdisciplinary program that works to conserve health in communities by reducing the frequency and consequences of violence and unintentional injuries. CVIC conducts research on the leading causes of injury, including youth violence, motor vehicle-related injuries, domestic violence injuries, and injuries related to recreation activities such as biking and skateboarding.

Source: Allegheny General Hospital

Primary Contact Information
Name:  Dan Laurent
Phone:  412-359-8602
Company:  Allegheny General Hospital
E-Mail:  [email protected]

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:17:07 AM EDT
I understand 1905 poster Joe, USN (Ret.)...

There's nothing in your commentary that I don't agree with.  Essentially, what we're looking at is outdated data that has been manipulated to the advantage of the anti gunners - there's no arguing that.

However, at the same time the pro gun lobby (us) has to be prepared to rebut these reports.  It's not enough to call them "bullsh*t" (even if that's exactly what they are).  Housewives, grandmas, and college kids who think they can save the world will use their votes to take our guns away.  Not only do they read this stuff, but more importantly they believe it, then act on it - scary stuff.

It doesn't matter when the data was compiled or what the ratings of the news agency are - it's the simple fact that data like this is being freely disseminated to the public with nothing to back it or anything or anyone to challenge it.  It's an exercise in poor journalism as well because an opposing viewpoint was not sought or provided.

Remember, I'm on your side.

- Brian
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 10:51:36 AM EDT
"Gun Injuries Cost U.S. $802 Million"

Those kind of reports are so one-sided it's pathetic. They completely ignore the benefits of guns to society, saving anywhere from a few hundred thousand to 7 or 8 million lives a year, depending on which of a dozen studies you want to believe. That would be like looking at the monetary losses of a large company such as Microsoft, ignoring the profits, and then declaring the company insolvent. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:11:13 AM EDT
As an ex-Motorcycle Safety Foundation instructor, I can tell you that when IIHS reports xx percent of mtorcyclists injured have no health insurance, they do not tell you that xx+1 or 2 percent of motorists injured have no health insurance. The percentage of motorists is greater, but the yellow journalists do not report that. They use the facts they have against the motorcyclists. Just as in this case, they are using the facts for anti-gun causes. Actually, bath tubs are more dangerous than guns, but, grandma/dumbo college student is not going to vote to outlaw bath tubs.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 1:23:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 1:48:16 PM EDT
I wonder how much was spent on auto accidents or alcohol caused accidents with no cries for the banning of autos or alcohol.

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