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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2007 1:59:24 PM EDT
[#1]
1) Stock
2)Remington Golden Bullet or Thunderbolt 3) 1/2 + - 4) No 5) Hundreds |
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Posted: 10/16/2007 11:56:14 PM EDT
[#2]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? Spike's Tactical
2) What ammo was used? Federal Bulk Load 750 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? Have no idea. Kept shooting 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? Didn't notice any 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit 1,500 |
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Posted: 11/3/2007 10:48:41 AM EDT
[#3]
can you post if you never had a problem.
I have never had a problem or at least yet. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2007 11:35:32 AM EDT
[#4]
spikes tactical/ stock
Federal bulk 1/3 inch no damage 1k I attribute the malfunction to a heavy/stock hammer spring. I had been firing from a lower with jp springs, switched to a stock lower and I had several fte's much like a stovepipe out the side. While shooting left handed with a mag well hold it happened. Pop/a little powder under the skin of my right thumb and a gnarly shell. I'll wear gloves from now on/ shoot from a dedicated lower and I polished the rails on the kit. cw |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2007 8:26:40 PM EDT
[#5]
1) Stock
2)Remington Golden Bullet 3) 1/2 + - 4) No 5) less than 100 several FTE as well |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 12:37:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Stock
American Eagle 36 grain HP Unknown None that I could determine Less than 100 I found the kaboomed casing. Maybe I'll take a picture of it. The base is swollen aound the headstamp and the side that was presumably facing the ejection port burst, and a piece of brass hit me in the forehead. I stopped shooting it that day. I'd been having some 2 or 3 round bursts before that, but I think all the problems were with the AE ammo, rather than the 40 grain Remington round nose I had started shooting in the kit, and which the instructions say the kit was tested with. |
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Posted: 11/23/2007 5:42:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TaylorWSO]
[#7]
Just got back from the range and finally had one. It really caught my attention since it was very loud compared to my usual suppressed shot  |
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Posted: 11/25/2007 11:40:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MikeS1970]
[#8]
I believe this was a in-battery case failure although it may also have been a very slight OOB.
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how? Kuehl 2) What ammo was used? Winchester bulk pack X-Pert HP lead 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? Fully seated 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? No 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit? Approximately 2500 Shell casing had two small holes just in front of the rim. Ejected normally and the next round fed and seated. The hammer didn't cock so I ejected the round in the chamber and checked the bore - which was clear. There was a little puff of smoke when I fired and it sounded different. This ammo has been nothing but trouble - failures to fire, failures to eject and now this. One guy ran five rounds through his Savage bolt - one failure to fire. I have never seen this many misfires in 40+ years of shooting. Good FP hits and multiple tries = no joy. I thought it was my rifle but when the Savage misfired with this ammo I just gave the rest away. Rifle works fine with CCI standard, Minimag, Fed HiVel and most other standard and hivel ammo. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2007 11:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CIB]
[#9]
I presume these are all in the AR-15/M16 Ceiner kits? I have one of the kits for the AC556, and I've had quite a few OOB detonations with it. I will say that I have never had one (that I know of) that had a simultaneous catastrophic case failure.
I've had them with Remington Goldens the most, they were also the ones that would blow the extractor out of the bolt, and I had to buy replacements. The reason I believe it happens with the Remmys the most often is many of the bullets will be kinked ever so slightly to one side or the other. I have had it happen with CCI mini-mags too, but not nearly so often. My kit has done it from day one, and though it does it less often now, it still does it. I have about 4-5K through it. It is a stock kit. On another note it runs best on Aguila Supermaximums and Mini-mags. Ah, couple of other observations. Never does it on semi, or 3 rd. burst, only on F/A. Also, never does it when it's freshly cleaned and lubed. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 11/26/2007 10:21:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Have any of you guys tried dropping live rounds into a clean chamber adapter to see what happens? You might be surprised, I tried it last night, and found some interesting things out.
Remington "Goldens" require quite a bit of pressure to fully chamber, mini-mags exhibit the same symptoms, but do not require near as much pressure to fully chamber. Fed Bulk Pack, CCI Stingers, and Aguila Supermaximums just drop in. I'm wondering if it's just my adapter, or if this is common across all the kits? |
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Posted: 12/2/2007 6:21:16 PM EDT
[#11]
spikes tactical/ stock
Federal bulk 1/3 inch no damage 1k |
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Posted: 12/2/2007 6:32:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Federal and Aguila also work well in my (AR) kit. The Remington will not chamber, or is very hard to get chambered, so I don't use it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2008 4:51:58 PM EDT
[#13]
uh....tell him about the twinky 
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Posted: 2/5/2008 1:56:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Yes - I've had several.
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? Modified with a dedicated barrel 2) What ammo was used? Assorted - HV, Standard & Sub-sonic types 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? Approx 1/4 of the case length 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? Nothing noticeable 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit? Thousands - maybe four or five OOB Usually the case would still be in the gun with the unsupported side portion of the case blown out. I guessed it was just when the gun was dirty & didn't seat the round properly. Safety glasses a must with both of the .22 ARs I've owned. (The M261 before the Ciener also had some OOBs...) |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2008 2:37:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SpacemanSpiff]
[#15]
The cause of this is that the bolt is opening too quickly, exposing the brass while it is still under pressure.
My kit bulges cases and blows them out pretty regularly no matter what ammo I use. I think it is a combination of the loose chamber and relatively light bolt which increases the bolt velocity greatly. I am going to add a tungsten weight to my bolt when I get around to it and see if I cant fix the problem that way. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:32:36 AM EDT
[#16]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?
stock 2) What ammo was used? federal and remington value packs 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? 1/2 to 1/3 of the round 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? no 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit 500-2500 The case did not rupture, it mushroomed the rear of the case in each incident. |
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Posted: 2/9/2008 11:50:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Somewhat tangent to your poll, I've had a few with the m261 kits I have, so I don't think it's ceiner specific, just the nature of a .22 adapter in general.
1.) Both stock m261 kits and CLE modified 2.) Rem GB and Fed Bulk 3.) 1/4" average 4.) 1 resulted in positioning tab/spring failure 5.) over 5k |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2008 7:28:57 PM EDT
[#18]
yup. a blowback gun with a bolt that is too light will bulge and rupture cases. even my 10/22 has done it, but not nearly as frequently as the ceiner kit. |
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Posted: 2/13/2008 9:27:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Question, if using the Ciener Kit, would using the Anti-Bounce weight help add mass and prevent this? Has anyone had an OOB discharge when using the Anti-Bounce weight? |
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Posted: 3/4/2008 11:07:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kharn]
[#20]
1) Unmodified
2) Federal bulk pack 3) ~0.22", I think an empty was between the kit and the charging handle, holding the bolt open 4) No damage 5) Unknown, bought used, but <100rds since last cleaning when it occured
Out of ~200 rounds fired that day, I had the one OOB, and 2-3 where the hammer failed to reset but managed to load another round. I also experienced three multiple-discharges using that same ammo (I'd assume short-stroking and not resetting the hammer and the light strike setting off the next primer), I think they were each 2-3rd bursts but I'm not 100% sure.  I may go back to Rem Golden Bullets, they might be more of a pain on chambering, but they never fail to reset the hammer when fired. Kharn |
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Posted: 3/4/2008 11:24:12 AM EDT
[#21]
FWIW - I think I'll stop gathering data in this thread. The results collected point to the fact that it can happen with just about any setup, but no damage occurs. Thanks to all of you who have provided data.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2008 3:19:50 PM EDT
[#22]
1) Polished but otherwise stock kit
2) Remington Golden Bullet, 40gr - Plated Lead Round Nose 3) 1/16" 4) No damage to kit, BDM Gen II mag, rifle, or shooter 5) ~5000rds at time of OOB Discharge |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2008 10:47:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ChampFerguson]
[#23]
Yes, multiple times OOB firings. If I had not been wearing shooting glasses every time, my eyes would have been at risk as the blast was directed rearward and to the right. As it was, I had som e slight tatoo'ing on my face.
Untouched Stock Ceiner 22 kit in a Colt AR-15. Kit went back to factory 3 times and continued to fire OOB every single gd time. Finally ran into Ceiner at Knob Creek and after having noted that the mag had been redesigned (which was most likely what was causing the prob imo) asked him about getting my mag fixed or upgraded since this thing was dangerous. The SOB cursed me (i had given him no reason whatsoever to do so) and said "Well, metal wears out. Deal with it" and then turned his back on me. I spent the next 30 minutes by his table telling everyone who would listen my story in detail. In retrospect its a wonder I wasnt asked to leave the show. Jon Ceiner's customer service and attitude is LEGENDARY. I wont deal with crooks at ANY price and I wish I had know about him before I purchased his kit. So, 1) stock 2) various common brand standard velocity; brand = cant remember 3) at least 1/8" 4) none that i could see 5) <800, probably closer to 600 Oh, just to add: I threw away the kit as I felt it was a danger to anyone I might sell/give it to. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2008 12:25:22 PM EDT
[#24]
1) Unmodified semi-auto kit (but only occurred when using old style Black Dog Mags)
2) Remington Subsonic 3) About 80% out of battery 4) No damage, just scared the crap out of me the first time because I had a suppressor on it and wasn’t expecting the BANG 5) 5000+ The biggest problem was picking brass out from the chamber and trying to figure out what happened, along with having to inspect the weapon for damage and verify that I still had all of my fingers (and no embedded brass shards) |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 5:08:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Thank you for running this thread, it helps alleviate fear and concerns for those it happens to knowing it's not just them or their gear, and it's not that bad an event. It answered some very important questions. |
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Posted: 4/16/2008 10:06:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Now that I think about it, with enough shooting Ive had a OBD with about every semi auto .22 I own, 10-22, AR/.22, rem. I still think its the slightly large lead or crimp swell on the round or the shape of the nose that does it. I just always figured it hapens once in a while and move on.
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Posted: 4/16/2008 10:46:47 PM EDT
[#27]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2008 3:53:48 AM EDT
[#28]
so an "OOB" is a kaboom?
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2008 8:18:29 PM EDT
[#29]
1) stock
2) first time CCI mini mag second time Fedral bulk 3) 1/2 in both times 4) No Damage that I could tell 5) probably under 10,000 I would like to add that it just started doing this the last to trips out. I have a powder burn from the fedral on my hand. One more thing both of mine happened with Black Dog skinny mags I am not saying that caused it just an observation. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2008 10:21:59 AM EDT
[#30]
1) Stock kit (not modified in any way)
2) Ammo: Fed bulk pack and dynapoint 3) No OBD's 4) N/A 5) 4000-4500 rounds mostly FA |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 2:07:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Stock kit with Fed. Bulk pack ammo. About half the case was in the chamber, the rear half blown out. Thousands of rounds through this kit. Pop and no kick is what alerted me to it happening, ended up with bullet about 5 inches into barrel, and a small carbon streak on my hand. Other than that, no damage.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2008 7:56:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Had my first OOB-induced KB today. From the fragments of the casing, it looks like it was approx 3/16"-1/4" OOB. Blew the rear of the casing clean off, sending a shower of burning powder and brass fragments down the mag well and into the trigger mechanism. Other than needing to have the bullet and casing driven back out the chamber adapter, there was no damage that a thorough cleaning couldn't fix.
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? Stock 2) What ammo was used? Remington Golden Bullets 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? Somewhere between 3/16"~1/4". 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? No, but debris got into the trigger/safety mechanism and made it jam later. 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit Approx 2500 total. KB happened at round number 45 from clean. |
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Posted: 10/7/2008 8:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FullMetalChef]
[#33]
1) Stock kit
2) Remington Bulk 3) ~ 1/16" 4) No damage 5) Approximately 300 rounds Also noticed that the ammo was relatively dry compared to most .22lr's I use. Was also having feeding issues with this ammo. Bulk Federal worked fine. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2008 6:23:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Stupid noob question: What is an OOB? Does it cause damage to the gun itself?
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Posted: 10/8/2008 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#35]
1 No 2 Don't remember 3 Don't remember 4 No 5 Unknown I've had about 3 OOB. No damage no harm. |
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Posted: 10/10/2008 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#36]
1) The Ciener kit is Stock and brand new?
2) Ammo: Remington Thunderbolt 22, all I had, but cycled fine? 3) Case was OOB by about 1/16" - 1/8". 4) No damage to kit but lots of crud! 5) Exactly 12 rounds through the kit! Here's the answer to why mine is doing this! Anyone else? I just bought a new Ciener "Atchisson" .22 long rifle conversion kit to use in my m16/AR15 platform rifles to save on ammo. Here's the problem: The tail end of the bolt is hanging up on the top edge of the bolt stop assembly which keeps it from moving forward into battery. The result is that the bolt closes to within 1/8th inch or less of full battery and stops there. The trigger can be pulled and the gun will fire which of course causes the .22 cartrige to rupture and blow out the side port. NOT FUN. Is this a common problem. I have tried three different guns/brands all are milspec parts and all hang the bolt up on the mag release assy. at least 50% of the time. It is a close interference fit. I think I need to remove a little metal from the bottom of the rear bolt tail to clear the bolt stop. Ciener only has a mesage machine and NO customer support that I can find for there products. Thanks, DC-1 |
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Posted: 10/10/2008 12:15:14 PM EDT
[#37]
No trouble at all with mine.........
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2008 11:16:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Is your lower Rock River?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2008 10:13:30 PM EDT
[#39]
I know this is an old thread, but I feel more information always helps.
I had an OOB last weekend. I thought I would post pics of the casing as I haven't seen any here yet. It is a stock Ciener kit. I was using some Remington Bulk crap. You can see by the pics how far out of the chamber the round was. No damage to the kit or my rifle. I've put about 200 rounds through it. I have had some FTF, however based on what I've read I think it's more crap ammo rather than anything else. I always use a lot of CLP on the kit before firing. I'm also using BDM mags. 
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IL, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2008 2:40:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eric2281]
[#40]
1) Stock 2) Winchester super X 3) about 1/4" 4) No damage 5) around 400rds. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2009 11:36:47 PM EDT
[#41]
1) Modified - TacSol M4 Upper
2) Remington Golden, Federal Bulk Pack, Winchester Dynapoints, and Eley 3) Chamber is closed. Timing issue with springs causes last 1/16" to bulge and burst 4) No damage. Lots of brass fragments 5) ~1000 rounds Comments: Chamber and feed ramp polished with Dremel branded red metal polish, a drill, a section of cleaning rod, and two .30 cal bore mops. I've had the timing issue occur from day one. Adding a helper spring as an experiment results in less bulging but bursting will still happen with one out of every 150-200 rounds. I'm ordering the Lakeside Guns spring kit. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2009 11:54:58 AM EDT
[#42]
I just had an OOB discharge.
It blew about 3/32 to 1/8 inch from the rim of the cartridge. Lodged the bullet about 6 inches in to the barrel. No noticeable damage to the Ciener kit, the side of the casing that blew was on the ejection port side, most gas was vented out the port. I'm using an upper that I bought off of Gunbroker. Some of you may have seen them posted there. It's a carbon reciever w/ the Ciener adapter permenantly attached to the barrel, the bolt and other components come out freely. I'll post a pic below. I'm using Black Dog 10 round mags and the cheap Remington ammo bulk pack from Walmart. I've fired close to 1k rounds out of this rifle so far. Having fired about 100 rounds the day of the OOB I did notice several times that the recoil spring wasn't fully closing the bolt on many occasion. When I would notice it I'd manually push the bolt closed and it functioned fine. When I didn't notice it the hammer would force the bolt closed when I pulled the trigger but the round wouldn't fire. It did slightly dent the rim of the casing. I would rack the charging handle and the round would go off just fine. My hypothesis is that in this particular situation the round was not fully chambered when the hammer dropped and caused the OOB. I'm thinking that a recoil spring upgrade might solve my situation in the future. http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/smeagolcheese/22lr.jpg |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2009 12:36:37 PM EDT
[#43]
No damage to kit or weapon.
No permanant damage to operator. |
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Posted: 2/14/2009 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Kuehl (old style) upper
Federal bulk... no damage to anything including me..... also...I've had this for at least 6 years and thousands of rounds down the tube.... in fact I've had this before 22LR became such a fad.... and only 1 OOB discharge |
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Posted: 3/14/2009 2:36:47 AM EDT
[#45]
1) spikes tactical/ stock
2) Federal bulk 3) 1/4 inch 4) no damage 5) 200 It scared me. 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2009 9:57:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: beeragent74]
[#46]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I'll add a poll too if it makes you happy, but I'm primarily interested in the following: 1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how? 2) What ammo was used? 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit 1. CMMG kit, BDM mags, completely as sent from factory 2. Was using mixture of ammo but OOB was Remington golden bullet, rapid rate of fire 3. 3/16" 4. no damage that I can see 5. around 700 started the day with a clean rifle and kit, both well lubed. shot a couple hundred .22 switched to 5.56 for 100 rounds then back to .22. OOB happened within 10 rounds of switching back. got the odd report, lots of smoke and unburnt powder, upon dissassembly bullet was lodged in barrel about an inch into rifling |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2009 11:19:40 AM EDT
[#47]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how? STOCK
2) What ammo was used? BULK FED FROM WALMART 3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? NOT TO FAR 4) Did any damage occur to the kit? NO 5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit A LOT I HAVE HAD MY KIT SENCE 98 i have had only i oob discharge that i can remember that was last weekend the kit was very dirty |
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Posted: 4/12/2009 7:15:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By GunshineStateAR15: 1) spikes tactical/ stock 2) Federal bulk 3) 1/4 inch 4) no damage 5) 200 It scared me. +1 |
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Posted: 5/5/2009 11:28:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Ceiner kit with polished feed ramp
halfway out of battery the round ruptured and was crammed into a mushroom shape (federal bulk) no damage to anything. |
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Posted: 5/18/2009 2:03:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ChuckBronson]
[#50]
Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03:
Originally Posted By GunshineStateAR15:
1) spikes tactical/ stock 2) Federal bulk 3) 1/4 inch 4) no damage 5) 200 It scared me. +1 +2 First time with Federal Bulk, yesterday with a stinger. The stinger kaboom was quite spectacular, but no damage so far. I still have to give the kit a good cleaning.
ETA- Cleaned conversion kit and fired 200 rounds after stinger kaboom. No damage. Also, Fed bulk kaboom was at 200 rounds, stinger kaboom was at about 3k. |
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