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Posted: 1/30/2013 8:37:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Does it have the box and accessories? I believe someone bought a unfired in the box SP1 under 400 serial number for around $2500.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 8:38:59 PM EDT
[#2]
You might want to re-post your question in the appraisal thread here...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/523435_OFFICIAL_APPRAISAL_THREAD_REQUESTS_FOR_APPRAISALS_ONLY_IN_THIS_THREAD.html And post pics please! 
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I'm new to AR15.com but not new to AR ownership and would just like to say thanks before I ask my question.. Also if I'm not in the right place please direct me to where I should be. Thanks again. I have just puchased/trade for my third AR and I know for certain I have a pretty rare find. I have a 1964 production AR15 SP1 ser# is less than 00310. To the best of my knowledge it is unfired. IT IS NOT FOR SALE. I've done my research and everything I have found out points to it being correct. I recently saw one with a 4 digit ser# for sale for $10,000. My question is, How rare is this find and can anyone give me more info and some idea of what it is worth. It is in like new unfired condition even though I have no way to confirm it to be unfired at this time. Thanks for your help it was discussed last time that an early SP1 came up for auction that the early serialed lowers weren't built out at the time and doneso later so they had later parts. i've seen at least 2 examples of early serials with later parts on them. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:13:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm new to AR15.com but not new to AR ownership and would just like to say thanks before I ask my question.. Also if I'm not in the right place please direct me to where I should be. Thanks again. I have just puchased/trade for my third AR and I know for certain I have a pretty rare find. I have a 1964 production AR15 SP1 ser# is less than 00310. To the best of my knowledge it is unfired. IT IS NOT FOR SALE. I've done my research and everything I have found out points to it being correct. I recently saw one with a 4 digit ser# for sale for $10,000. My question is, How rare is this find and can anyone give me more info and some idea of what it is worth. It is in like new unfired condition even though I have no way to confirm it to be unfired at this time. Thanks for your help it was discussed last time that an early SP1 came up for auction that the early serialed lowers weren't built out at the time and doneso later so they had later parts. i've seen at least 2 examples of early serials with later parts on them. I believe the lowers that were "assembled later" were the first 25 or so--1963 pre-production reserve. Regular production started in '64 and SP00310 would have been produced early that year. Not to give an appraisal here, but a 4-digit value would not approach $10k unless it was converted to select-fire and available on a Form 4. Having said that, though, '1st year" SP1s in original condition are very collectible rifles, and 3-digit examples even more so. "Original condition" being the key phrase...which brings us to the main point: WE NEED PHOTOGRAPHS!! External photos, internal photos, photos of the BCG (stripped), photos of the buffer, photos of every stamp and roll mark, including on the barrel, photos inside the handguards... Share, man! Oh, and contact Colt. For that rifle, in excellent condition, it would definitely be worth springing for the archive letter. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:25:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Pics or it didn't happen.
 If anyone knows what it's worth, it'd be Olgunner, m1sniper and other guys like boywonder777. Just because they were asking $10K doesn't mean they'll get it - as OG mentioned, that's NFA territory. We would really love to see detailed pics of it torn down. Early SP1's are really as close as you can get to a 'real M16.' Welcome to the forum!
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:08:28 AM EDT
[#6]
The 3 digit guns typically go for a premium over 4 digit guns, but you aren't talking $5,000+ or anything. They are such rare eggs in the market that condition, original packaging, fired/unfired, and honestly if there is a buyer specifically looking for a low serial number gun at that time will play a huge part in the value of the gun.
Also, just because a gun is LISTED for $10,000 does not mean it will sell at that price.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:53:19 AM EDT
[#7]
here's a 3 digit approaching $5k with a few hours left
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=327240497 |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:29:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks guys, I will post pictures as soon as I learn how.Can I post right from my computer?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:35:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Thanks guys, I will post pictures as soon as I learn how.Can I post right from my computer? I use tinypic to host my pictures. Make an account, load pictures to your album, and paste the [IMG] code from the picture to your reply here. Ta-da! |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 5:52:59 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:04:47 PM EDT
[#11]
DAAAMN!! Helluva first photo. Eagerly awaiting many more! |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:19:48 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm trying but I'm a slow learner
Quoted:
DAAAMN!! Helluva first photo. Eagerly awaiting many more! |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Nice!
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:29:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Very, very nice!
I see the buffer tube is pinned, so we'll assume it's the original "early" tube. And I'm guessing it has the edgewater buffer? The sling is not right. You need a black "601"-type sling...I'm sure someone here has a photo. (I need one, too, for my late-64 rifle.) That's a beautiful rifle. Be careful with that bipod on there! Those things are not nice to the barrel finish! When you have time, I'd like to see the markings on the bipod (and is it riveted or does it have a c-clip?), the floorplates of the mags and maybe a couple shots of the bayonet and scabbard. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:42:37 PM EDT
[#16]
That shits LEGIT.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:50:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Transitional bolt catch, and a cast FSB as well.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:52:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Beautiful weapon
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:53:32 PM EDT
[#19]
can you post a pic of the ejection port cover opened? i want to see if the detent housing is angled or round.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:24:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Very, very nice! I see the buffer tube is pinned, so we'll assume it's the original "early" tube. And I'm guessing it has the edgewater buffer? The sling is not right. You need a black "601"-type sling...I'm sure someone here has a photo. (I need one, too, for my late-64 rifle.) That's a beautiful rifle. Be careful with that bipod on there! Those things are not nice to the barrel finish! When you have time, I'd like to see the markings on the bipod (and is it riveted or does it have a c-clip?), the floorplates of the mags and maybe a couple shots of the bayonet and scabbard. The scope is Japan and on another SP1 I have. http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/Ar15007.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/Ar15006.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/Ar15004.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/Ar15005.jpg |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:53:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
can you post a pic of the ejection port cover opened? i want to see if the detent housing is angled or round. Is this the picture you wanted? http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15006.jpg |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:56:56 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:01:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Does anyone need to see anymore pictures. So It seems that all indications are that this is an original 1964 legit SP1 ser#000300. except for the sling. So what do you guys think of the weapon?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:19:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Does anyone need to see anymore pictures. So It seems that all indications are that this is an original 1964 legit SP1 ser#000300. except for the sling. So what do you guys think of the weapon? everything looks legit. by the other auction that closed, someone was willing to pay the reserve of $4900 for it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:26:38 PM EDT
[#25]
I like it. I definately don't know nearly enough about the early SP-1's. Would have generally thought the transitional BCG came later in time but SP-1's have always been a slightly different parts assembly than comparable M-16 military counterpart. P marked bolt is early production. Got a pic of the carrier? or BCG field stripped? Almost looks like a parkerized machined firing pin retainer in pic. Also interesting if mags are original that the 5.56 floorplate is 1964 vintage also.
I'm pretty sure the W German Eickhorn produced bayonet is 1970's production. What's stamped on the cross piece? Solingen-W Germany! Does it have the letter S in front of M-7 or just M-7? You do have a very nice early example rifle. Don't think it will ever see $10K value in our lifetime but it does have value. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:37:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Transitional bolt catch, and a cast FSB as well. Is this good or bad? The more orignal and out of the ordinary the better I like it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:41:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone need to see anymore pictures. So It seems that all indications are that this is an original 1964 legit SP1 ser#000300. except for the sling. So what do you guys think of the weapon? everything looks legit. by the other auction that closed, someone was willing to pay the reserve of $4900 for it. This one is not going up for sale. It's going with the rest of my guns. The bayonnet cross pc is stamed just M7.. It does appear to everyone that has looked at the weapon that looks unfired. That kinda sad because I have 5,000 rounds and I was wanting to fire this thing up.Gues I'll just keep shooting my 1974 SP1. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:41:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Cast FSB and transitional bolt catch!
It's good and these items are a little rare. Seems a few transition parts are on it. Very common as SP-1 was Colt's civillian dumping ground for many of their M-16 parts as milspec changed for our soldiers weapons. Colt just installed them in civillian rifles instead of pitching them. Would have also thought your bipod is a little later example than 1964. I'm guessing some of the accessories were gathered at a later date than original rifle production. Scope looks early but again I'm definately not a Colt scope expert. Regardless of parts and pieces I'd keep that one also. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:48:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone need to see anymore pictures. So It seems that all indications are that this is an original 1964 legit SP1 ser#000300. except for the sling. So what do you guys think of the weapon? everything looks legit. by the other auction that closed, someone was willing to pay the reserve of $4900 for it. This one is not going up for sale. It's going with the rest of my guns. i know but you asked what it's worth. the other one was worth $4900 to someone. dunno if the same rifle went up for auction again without a reserve if it would be worth more or less. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:54:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Cast FSB and transitional bolt catch! It's good and these items are a little rare. Seems a few transition parts are on it. Very common as SP-1 was Colt's civillian dumping ground for many of their M-16 parts as milspec changed for our soldiers weapons. Colt just installed them in civillian rifles instead of pitching them. Would have also thought your bipod is a little later example than 1964. I'm guessing some of the accessories were gathered at a later date than original rifle production. Scope looks early but again I'm definately not a Colt scope expert. Regardless of parts and pieces I'd keep that one also. scope is definitely later. for that serial, the inverted post realist or crosshairs realist would have been correct. this one is a later japanese one with the duplex reticule. here's my 3x20 collection - i think i have all 6 variations made during the sp1 production timeframe 
here's a little 4x20 love 
these are the realist ones that would be correct to the period of this sp1 
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:05:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Think I'll keep my colt japan scope on my other sp1. This one came with a Tasco armored coverd scope I just assumed it was not true to the AR platform.Thanks so much for all your comments I have learned alot about my newest acqusition and will take very good care of it. Keep the comments coming, I'm listening.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:09:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Think I'll keep my colt japan scope on my other sp1. This one came with a Tasco armored coverd scope I just assumed it was not true to the AR platform.Thanks so much for all your comments I have learned alot about my newest acqusition and will take very good care of it. Keep the comments coming, I'm listening. if it's the tasco rubber coated scope, it's what colt sold with the delta match hbars. got a pic of it? |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:28:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Think I'll keep my colt japan scope on my other sp1. This one came with a Tasco armored coverd scope I just assumed it was not true to the AR platform.Thanks so much for all your comments I have learned alot about my newest acqusition and will take very good care of it. Keep the comments coming, I'm listening. if it's the tasco rubber coated scope, it's what colt sold with the delta match hbars. got a pic of it? It looks like I made a pretty good trade after all. I traded my 2002 Harley Electra Glide for this AR15, a Ruger S/S mini14,a Ruger mini 30, 1600 rds of 223 ammo and 300 rounds of 7.62.. I'm as happy as a witch in a broom factory. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:32:42 PM EDT
[#34]
It might be what Colt offered on the Delta but they also sold them aftermarket without the same ring system. I have a Delta clone with the retail version of the scope.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:00:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Ya'll notice that full round parkerized gas key? This has come up before in BCG timeline questionaire!
Lionel thanks for sharing your scope pics. Think it's the first time I've seen it. Since carry handle scopes don't really work for me it's a Colt piece I've had very limited experience with. I now know that funshow seller who was telling me the two he had in box for $75ea was a deal, was a deal! Won't see that again more than likely. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 6:26:50 AM EDT
[#36]
I'll bet the barrel is 1/14.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 6:59:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I'll bet the barrel is 1/14. Not likely. In '64, the VP barrels were 1-12...the barrel would have been similar to what was used on the 602. FWIW, OP, I acquired a 4-digit SP1 (0018XX from late '64) last summer and posted lots of detailed photos here... and here. You might go through my pics and see see similar "early" parts--AND be able to pick out the even earlier parts on yours (like the barrel, FSB and bolt catch). I'd definitely advise keeping the scope away from this one, just to avoid any handle marks. And the bayo isn't period correct, so leave that with a different rifle. As for the bipod, I'd ask M1sniper--he has a NIB '64 that we sort of use as a "reference doc" for old SP1s. He can tell you if the bipod likely came with the rifle. And now for the controversial advice... You don't have the original box, and you can not say absolutely that it is unfired (other than factory testing). Therefore, as a collectible, it can never truly be referred to as "unfired"--just as "like new". Therefore...I suggest you clean it, lube it properly, buy it some good quality ammo, transport it carefully to the range, SHOOT IT, take some "action" photos, transport it carefully back home, clean it thoroughly, lube it properly and THEN put it away. If you're careful with it, a gentle range session should have minimal if any effect on the rifle's condition--or its value. Might as well get the pleasure of using it for what it was designed for--at least once! Oh, and one last task, should you decide to accept my advice: While you're enjoying that very special range outing, document the adventure and write up a range report for us! |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:03:33 AM EDT
[#38]
FWIW, if you'll compare the barrel diameter in front of the FSB to an MVP, it looks like it is quite a bit thinner, so it may actually be a 1-14". That stepdown in front of the FSB really stood out to me last night. Compare here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Viewitem.aspx?item=327502283 |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:21:50 AM EDT
[#39]
OP, is there a "12" on the barrel out near the flash hider?
Or do you see any other markings on the barrel (besides what you've shown already)? ETA Ekie's photo... 
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:23:18 AM EDT
[#40]
The transitional bolt catch is unusual and hard to find. Several people have attempted repros, but they are not easy to replicate from what I understand because the cut angle's different on them. IIRC Jerrell commented on this. I paid $100 shipped several years ago for one for my XM16E1 and consider it money well spent since the upper and other parts are original. I have no clue as to what they would go for now, but likely about the same, as they are an in-demand item. That, along with the cast FSB make it very interesting and unusual. I agree with Olgunner on the likelyhood of it being 1:12 but hell, I'd check the twist rate anyway unless it involved pulling a wick out of the barrel or possibly scratching it. It's not going to feel any different to fire than your '74 so I'd personally leave it unfired. It'll just go up in value, although I have to say that I consider $4900 top dollar for something like this - I think some of that price is driven by the recent madness, so I'd consider putting it up for $5 or 6K BIN if it looks as though they will push the ban through. Personally I think it'd make a great wall hanger in the study. This really should have been in the appraisal thread though.
ETA: I didn't see the pics you posted - having that M sideways between the FSB legs means that it's likely a 601 barrel. I would DEFINITELY check to see if it's 1:14 now. If so, it's really, REALLY interesting. It doesn't surprise me at all really. Colt used whatever they had on the shelf at the time, and old spec parts were 'used up' on civilian rifles (ie: SP1s) frequently. If that's a 1:14 barrel, you're going to be our new best friend. You'll HAVE to shoot it then, just to give us a range report. 
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:34:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
OP, is there a "12" on the barrel out near the flash hider? Or do you see any other markings on the barrel (besides what you've shown already)? ETA Ekie's photo... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/variation%20guide/barrel12.jpg If it has the M it won't have the 12 near the muzzle IIRC, even if it's 1:12 - the marking would be under the HGs. What about a 'C' at 12 o'clock on the chamber OP? |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:40:40 PM EDT
[#42]
i have an early square forge SP1 upper w/ the square pad epc, carbon steel gas tube and dimpled windage screw with a 1:14 barrel. it's marked W btw the FSB legs and there doesn't appear to be any indication on the barrel nut it's ever been removed.
a few years ago rmiller scored a sp1 that had a 1:14 barrel. i don't think anyone has found a NIB example with a 1:14 barrel but seeing the dimpled takedown pins and transitional bolt catches, i think there's a good chance some left the factory with 1:14 barrels. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:52:19 PM EDT
[#43]
i think there's a good chance some left the factory with 1:14 barrels.
It would follow Colt's use what we have on the shelf for builds syndrome. I still do it. Tear drops on flat tops. I'd use a big head if they would clear lower. Thinking about taking a wheel to a few just like Colt did. I'd think the barrel mfg process was rolling along when they decided to ditch the 1:14 twist. They definately went more modular with the 02 upper sights and then more durable with the forged FSB. Wondering what was wrong with the Electra Glide? I could have fixed the H-D to easily be more valuable than the guns and ammo. Still gotta find someone with the cash to purchase and most with the coins don't want an 02. With gun frenzy OP might come out ahead as an evo H-D probably won't appreciate with time like a pre- pan, pan or shovel. Less a ban as stated you probably did alright. Ban comes and you're screwed. Keep the pics coming. I was thinking 1:14 last night also. Was pretty sure accessories weren't original. Still would like to see the BCG broken down too. Seems early for the transition BCG to me. Does show us that the pieces were around even in 64. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:06:25 PM EDT
[#44]
The reason I brought up the twist issue is because I have #323 which is 1/14. My countless hours of research seem to indicate the 1/14 barrels were used up to about #700. If any of you guys out there have guns around #700 that you believe are all original please chime in on what your barrel twist is and/or what markings there are.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:12:16 PM EDT
[#45]
I find this interesting - I had NO idea that there were known SP1s out there with 1:14 barrels! Damn, I still learn stuff here all the time! Very cool.
Cdenmark - the only reason to modify a big-head FA is to make it work with A2 lowers - likely the reason they began making them that way. Works fine with A1 lowers. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:23:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Cdenmark - the only reason to modify a big-head FA is to make it work with A2 lowers - likely the reason they began making them that way. Works fine with A1 lowers.
Yep, I have a couple spares and I put flat tops on A-2 lowers. I've also been known not to use the FA pawl and a chrome slickside BCG. Just use a FA to plug the hole. Heck I put retro uppers on A-2 lowers and it appears it will be a while before I can purchase an A-1 lower also. Yes I'm asshamed. Hey I work withing my very limited budget and the biggest thrill for me is shooting them then collecting parts. Sad when one has to use a 602 BCG because they ran out of Colt spare parkerized units. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:33:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
The transitional bolt catch is unusual and hard to find. Several people have attempted repros, but they are not easy to replicate from what I understand because the cut angle's different on them. IIRC Jerrell commented on this. I paid $100 shipped several years ago for one for my XM16E1 and consider it money well spent since the upper and other parts are original. I have no clue as to what they would go for now, but likely about the same, as they are an in-demand item. That, along with the cast FSB make it very interesting and unusual. I agree with Olgunner on the likelyhood of it being 1:12 but hell, I'd check the twist rate anyway unless it involved pulling a wick out of the barrel or possibly scratching it. It's not going to feel any different to fire than your '74 so I'd personally leave it unfired. It'll just go up in value, although I have to say that I consider $4900 top dollar for something like this - I think some of that price is driven by the recent madness, so I'd consider putting it up for $5 or 6K BIN if it looks as though they will push the ban through. Personally I think it'd make a great wall hanger in the study. This really should have been in the appraisal thread though. ETA: I didn't see the pics you posted - having that M sideways between the FSB legs means that it's likely a 601 barrel. I would DEFINITELY check to see if it's 1:14 now. If so, it's really, REALLY interesting. It doesn't surprise me at all really. Colt used whatever they had on the shelf at the time, and old spec parts were 'used up' on civilian rifles (ie: SP1s) frequently. If that's a 1:14 barrel, you're going to be our new best friend. You'll HAVE to shoot it then, just to give us a range report. Wow. OK, I've been looking at too many barrel photos lately. For some reason, I would have sworn this thread showed a barrel with the large VP. That's why I assumed it is 1-12. Seeing this comment made me go back to look again. How I overlooked that, I have no idea. Yes, with the sideways M, I would agree that it's a 1-14" twist. Forget anything else I said about the barrel! (Although my advice about shooting it stands. Unless you can document that it's unfired, it isn't. ) Now I'm going to go take a nap. |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Today I physically checked the barrel and it is a 1in14" twist,no doubt about it. Now what do you want me to do.LOL
More pictures of the BC and the scopes. The Colt scope I bought used in the mid 80's at a gunshow and the Tasco came on this AR.I guess your going to talk me into shooting this thing. I have 11 other guns that have never been fired and I bought these new so I know. Cdenmark...The Harley was a 2002 better than new and only had 7,600 miles on it. I feel like I came out way ahead on this trade because I'm still alive and have all my limbs. The AR15 is looking better all the time http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15011.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15009.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15008.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15007.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15006-1.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15005.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15004.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15003.jpg http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15010.jpg |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 4:30:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I find this interesting - I had NO idea that there were known SP1s out there with 1:14 barrels! Damn, I still learn stuff here all the time! Very cool.
+1000 very interesting 
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Posted: 2/1/2013 5:11:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Other markings not shown in this picture of the scope
RC39X40 WA Japan 63 2 Could this possible mean that the scope was produced Feb, 1963? I can't possibly thank you guys enough, I have received 50 years of knowledge here in less than a week. Keep it coming. http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa430/vette205/AR%2015/AR15011.jpg |
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