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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/28/2006 1:40:31 PM EDT
Ive heard alot about the AK being tortured and it preforming very well. Here are some things ive heard....are they true?

1. AK being fired with water in it.

2. Ak being fired with the recoil spring removed.

3. Ak being fired with gas tube removed.

4. Ak being fired with mud in it.(MOST likely true)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:03:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Epsilon:
Ive heard alot about the AK being tortured and it preforming very well. Here are some things ive heard....are they true?

1. AK being fired with water in it.

2. Ak being fired with the recoil spring removed.

3. Ak being fired with gas tube removed.

4. Ak being fired with mud in it.(MOST likely true)



Thers a Video around there some were i think Arsenal inc in Las Vegas made were they are torturing one of there ak's which include water,running over,covering in dirt/mud ,im not too sure i have ever heard of one being fired with tthe recoil spring or gas tube removed. and im not sure if thats even possible seeing it has to pipe the gas as well as come back to pick up the next round


-Russel
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:16:36 PM EDT

and im not sure if thats even possible seeing it has to pipe the gas as well as come back to pick up the next round



Thats what I thought about the gas tube at first too. But then I saw these ported gas tubes with dozens of holes in them. So I thought it might be possible.

With the recoil spring gone it could only fire once. But would it go right out of the back end of the rifle?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:19:21 PM EDT
You could get off one round with the gas tube and/or recoil spring removed, but it's not very safe. If somebody wants to try it, best bet is to attach the weapon to a tree or something like that. An AK will most likely fire if full of water provided the ammunition has properly sealed primers/sealed bullets. As for mud, depends on how much. Odds are it won't prevent the bolt from cycling, but if enough mud gets in there, it could interfere with the functioning of the hammer and/or trigger. AK's can fire after being run over, it's been demonstrated on video before.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:21:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Epsilon:

and im not sure if thats even possible seeing it has to pipe the gas as well as come back to pick up the next round



Thats what I thought about the gas tube at first too. But then I saw these ported gas tubes with dozens of holes in them. So I thought it might be possible.

With the recoil spring gone it could only fire once. But would it go right out of the back end of the rifle?



It could, yes, due to the recoil energy and no spring being present to compensate for it. Also, there's no way to secure the dust cover with the recoil spring removed. If somebody wants to try it, mount the AK to something a safe distance away and tie a string to the trigger. It's something that could injure/kill in both directions.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:21:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:37:40 PM EDT
Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:02:50 PM EDT
I would call this torturing the ak
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zaphar:
I would call this torturing the ak
www.37mm.com/lotw/images/ak-drum-37mm-angle.jpg



I can hear it screaming "Oh God, free me from this bondage!"
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:04:27 PM EDT
how much do you think that thing weighs?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:08:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:09:22 PM EDT by Chris_1522]
ROFLMAO!!!


That WOULD be WAY cool for showing off to the posers you occasionally see at the public ranges though!!!

Oh and the looks you get from the deer rifle crowd would be GOLDEN!!!!


I can hear it now..."Holy shit, you see that - crazy bastard's got an AK-47 with a grenade launcher!"

Shame it had to be an Arsenal, though.



Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:10:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.




I've never seen this. The only thing that comes anywhere close was seeing someone bump a mag with the reciever cover removed.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:19:43 PM EDT

Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.


Id liek to see that video as well.

Ive seen pictures of the HK M4 firing with no gas tube and that has a gas piston. Its not the same systemm as the AK....but pretty close.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:36:25 PM EDT
Really though the gas piston is only forced back about 1/4th of an inch before the bolt unlocks and the remaining pressure in the barrel is what actually drives back the carrier.

As far as torture tests go, the ones on the vids these days are pretty tame considering what has been done to the AK series of weapons. I have seen footage of an Ak being dropped off a 4 story building then picked up and fired. Read that the Hungarians ran nearly 80,000 rounds out of an AK, when it finally died they popped the topcover, found two crushed shell casings in the rear of the reciever, the ejector had completely sheared off and was forcing the last two casings somehow inside the reciever. Honestly there may be more accurate weapon systems but in most combat situations 2-3MOA is excellent but more importantly on a platform that does run in any environment, it is damn near the best weapon system on the planet. Now they are are coming up with bolt hold open devices, ambi-saftey selectors, rail systems, etc. My stamped 5.56NATO Bulgarian AK shoots every bit as good as my LMT M4A3 using the exact same ammo, as long as the rifle is headspaced properly then it will shoot the same.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:13:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 8:13:46 PM EDT by Bob1984]

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.




What i've noticed with parts kits that I've played with, for instance, is that the gas piston needs the gas tube in order to be aligned correctly with the gas block (I think that's what it's called). Gas pistons normally wobble a bit. So if you fired without the gas tube, it'll fire one shot, but odds are good that the bolt won't go back into battery for another shot.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:32:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.




I have seen that video to - he fired it SEVERAL times without issue. If I remember correctly it was a SBRd AK - very short.......very. I may have it saved on my work PC but I wont be back until April 1st.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:41:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrkelly:

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Somebody once posted a video of a guy firing an AK with no gas tube. It works fine, but I would guess you're probably subject to hot gasses in the face.




I have seen that video to - he fired it SEVERAL times without issue. If I remember correctly it was a SBRd AK - very short.......very. I may have it saved on my work PC but I wont be back until April 1st.



SBR=shorter gas piston, less prone to rattling/misalignment.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:28:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zaphar:
I would call this torturing the ak
www.37mm.com/lotw/images/ak-drum-37mm-angle.jpg



This makes me want to photoshop a picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov with a caption at the bottom that says "Get that shit off of my rifle"
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:33:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunz4me:

Originally Posted By zaphar:
I would call this torturing the ak
www.37mm.com/lotw/images/ak-drum-37mm-angle.jpg



This makes me want to photoshop a picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov with a caption at the bottom that says "Get that shit off of my rifle"


what about this!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:04:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:20:10 AM EDT
I once was at a shoot sponsored by Tweak at the Capitol State Forest outside Olympia, WA.

Just for fun I took a stamped, fixed-stock AK.

Although I didn't outshoot the guys with M4geries, the balloon shoots I did well enough with irons.

I had trouble getting one magazine out of the well and simply dropped my AK in the mud, drew my pistol and kept firing. "Show off!"

I later put that mag aside and continued to run the AK; they work fine with mud and clay and water inside. Lots of room for it.

I drove home, stopped at a hand car wash and hosed it out with soap from a pressure washer ;)

I then properly cleaned it and lubricated it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:52:18 PM EDT

What i've noticed with parts kits that I've played with, for instance, is that the gas piston needs the gas tube in order to be aligned correctly with the gas block (I think that's what it's called). Gas pistons normally wobble a bit. So if you fired without the gas tube, it'll fire one shot, but odds are good that the bolt won't go back into battery for another shot.


Yeah, I think you're right. With a full length AK it wouldn't work, but like you said, it would be because the piston wouldn't realign with the GB, not because of a lack of pressure on the piston.


I have seen that video to - he fired it SEVERAL times without issue. If I remember correctly it was a SBRd AK - very short.......very. I may have it saved on my work PC but I wont be back until April 1st.


It was a short little krink-like thing.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:50:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:51:42 AM EDT by Iso-P]
You gentlemen are right. The only function that the gas tube has is to guide the piston back gas chamber [!]. Actually, the Finnish term for the tube is "piston guide".

The short AK you were referring to is actually my DIY Krinkov (shortened Saiga M3). While the DIY has such a short piston, the tube is not needed so much to guide the piston. And you can do this:

link to video

Do not try this with your normal length AK...

off-topic but here is DIY in its present appearance (the barrel is not so short, 24 centimeters) :

http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/picture_library/DIYKrinkov/DIYKrinkov31.jpg
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:54:58 AM EDT
Thats the one, thanks for clearing up the AK video mystery.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:07:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zaphar:
I would call this torturing the ak



damn,....think the guy would have put the lower tang on and made into a normal looking AK before he tac-fucked it,....

oh yeah heres the man himself. (thanks to someone on another site)

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:12:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 8:16:36 AM EDT by 2manytoys]

Originally Posted By Creeper:
Really though the gas piston is only forced back about 1/4th of an inch before the bolt unlocks and the remaining pressure in the barrel is what actually drives back the carrier.

As far as torture tests go, the ones on the vids these days are pretty tame considering what has been done to the AK series of weapons. I have seen footage of an Ak being dropped off a 4 story building then picked up and fired. Read that the Hungarians ran nearly 80,000 rounds out of an AK, when it finally died they popped the topcover, found two crushed shell casings in the rear of the reciever, the ejector had completely sheared off and was forcing the last two casings somehow inside the reciever. Honestly there may be more accurate weapon systems but in most combat situations 2-3MOA is excellent but more importantly on a platform that does run in any environment, it is damn near the best weapon system on the planet. Now they are are coming up with bolt hold open devices, ambi-saftey selectors, rail systems, etc. My stamped 5.56NATO Bulgarian AK shoots every bit as good as my LMT M4A3 using the exact same ammo, as long as the rifle is headspaced properly then it will shoot the same.



By the time the bolt unlocks, the barrel has left the bore & pressure has dropped. Having the bolt unlocked while the barrel is under full pressure(as it would be with the bullet still in the bore) would not be healthy for the rifle or the operator.
After the piston clears the gas block & gas pressure drops off,what causes the carrier to continue moving rearward is momentum
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:17:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 5:06:50 PM EDT by gunz4me]

Originally Posted By cruzie27:

Originally Posted By zaphar:
I would call this torturing the ak
www.37mm.com/lotw/images/ak-drum-37mm-angle.jpg



damn,....think the guy would have put the lower tang on and made into a normal looking AK before he tac-fucked it,....

oh yeah heres the man himself. (thanks to someone on another site)

img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/cruzie27/AK%20family/posters/comrade.jpg



Thanks, now I can create a Photochop caption with "Get that shit off of my rifle".

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