AK Sponsor
Posted: 1/24/2012 6:02:03 PM EDT
| On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. |
|
Quoted:
The piston is not welded nor pinned, but dimpled. You can take a drill on those dimples and it will come off. It's hard and may require a few drill bits. :) my 2009 SGL-31 has a dimpled piston, but my 2011 SGL21 appears to be threaded in very tightly with no rivet or dimple nor is it welded here's a pic 2009 SGL 31 on top 2011 SGL 21 bottom 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The piston is not welded nor pinned, but dimpled. You can take a drill on those dimples and it will come off. It's hard and may require a few drill bits. :) my 2009 SGL-31 has a dimpled piston, but my 2011 SGL21 appears to be threaded in very tightly with no rivet or dimple nor is it welded Interesting. I have 2 SGLs and 2 Saigas and all have the dimples. 2011 must be something new? Can you post a pic? |
|
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? think the carrier could be a US made part or Russian? It's serial numbered to the rifle |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The piston is not welded nor pinned, but dimpled. You can take a drill on those dimples and it will come off. It's hard and may require a few drill bits. :) my 2009 SGL-31 has a dimpled piston, but my 2011 SGL21 appears to be threaded in very tightly with no rivet or dimple nor is it welded here's a pic 2009 SGL 31 on top 2011 SGL 21 bottom Thanks for that pic. Would it be possible, however remotely, that they forgot to dimple the piston  ?
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The piston is not welded nor pinned, but dimpled. You can take a drill on those dimples and it will come off. It's hard and may require a few drill bits. :) my 2009 SGL-31 has a dimpled piston, but my 2011 SGL21 appears to be threaded in very tightly with no rivet or dimple nor is it welded here's a pic 2009 SGL 31 on top 2011 SGL 21 bottom Thanks for that pic. Would it be possible, however remotely, that they forgot to dimple the piston ?could be, but the charging handle is also a different design than the 2009 SGL31 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? SGL's seem to always have 1 more US made part than necessary (my fixed stock one has 7 US parts and a dimpled gas piston that must be Russian). So maybe on the sidefolders since they use a Russian stock, they change to a US gas piston. No idea though, just speculating. The owners manual may tell you what parts are US made. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? SGL's seem to always have 1 more US made part than necessary (my fixed stock one has 7 US parts and a dimpled gas piston that must be Russian). So maybe on the sidefolders since they use a Russian stock, they change to a US gas piston. No idea though, just speculating. The owners manual may tell you what parts are US made. Mine certainly is not. The piston is solid, not grooved, just like my converted Saigas. No arsenal or US markings either. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? SGL's seem to always have 1 more US made part than necessary (my fixed stock one has 7 US parts and a dimpled gas piston that must be Russian). So maybe on the sidefolders since they use a Russian stock, they change to a US gas piston. No idea though, just speculating. The owners manual may tell you what parts are US made. owners manual says the carrier is Russian, but it also says the 5rd mag that comes with is as well. However mine came with a US made 5rd mag. Maybe the carrier is a US made replacement |
|
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Just to add, it is my understanding that a little piston wiggle is desirable vs. a solid welded one. The reason being is to avoid gouging the gas tube and gas block during recoil by allowing a little flex between the carrier and piston joint. I have no proof to this though. I'll I know is I've gone through at least a dozen AKs and they all have some wiggle (some more than others) and never had any malfunction. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The piston is not welded nor pinned, but dimpled. You can take a drill on those dimples and it will come off. It's hard and may require a few drill bits. :) my 2009 SGL-31 has a dimpled piston, but my 2011 SGL21 appears to be threaded in very tightly with no rivet or dimple nor is it welded here's a pic 2009 SGL 31 on top 2011 SGL 21 bottom http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn150/beamy85/AKbcg001.jpg The bottom pic is how I'm seeing WASR's, Tantals and M10's now. My WASR UF is welded on one side with exposed threads on the other. All the new ones that I've looks at however are that smooth, darkened shaft with no signs of welding, dimples or touch-ups. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? SGL's seem to always have 1 more US made part than necessary (my fixed stock one has 7 US parts and a dimpled gas piston that must be Russian). So maybe on the sidefolders since they use a Russian stock, they change to a US gas piston. No idea though, just speculating. The owners manual may tell you what parts are US made. owners manual says the carrier is Russian, but it also says the 5rd mag that comes with is as well. However mine came with a US made 5rd mag. Maybe the carrier is a US made replacement The carrier is Russian. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Just to add, it is my understanding that a little piston wiggle is desirable vs. a solid welded one. The reason being is to avoid gouging the gas tube and gas block during recoil by allowing a little flex between the carrier and piston joint. I have no proof to this though. I'll I know is I've gone through at least a dozen AKs and they all have some wiggle (some more than others) and never had any malfunction. That is correct, the wiggle in the piston was added after the AK74M, all previous models: AKS-74U, AKS-74, AK-74, AKM and AK47 did not have wiggle in the piston. That feature was added in the 1990s. My 1988 Izzy AK-74 kit does not have wiggle and neither does the AKS-74U or my Maadi ARM (designed identically to late 60s AKM). |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Just to add, it is my understanding that a little piston wiggle is desirable vs. a solid welded one. The reason being is to avoid gouging the gas tube and gas block during recoil by allowing a little flex between the carrier and piston joint. I have no proof to this though. I'll I know is I've gone through at least a dozen AKs and they all have some wiggle (some more than others) and never had any malfunction. That is correct, the wiggle in the piston was added after the AK74M, all previous models: AKS-74U, AKS-74, AK-74, AKM and AK47 did not have wiggle in the piston. That feature was added in the 1990s. My 1988 Izzy AK-74 kit does not have wiggle and neither does the AKS-74U or my Maadi ARM (designed identically to late 60s AKM). That's not accurate, they are all supposed to wobble. New rifles (and unfired kits) are just tighter, so the wobble isn't as obvious when compared to rifles and parts kits that have a few decades of military service on them. The degree of the wobble is also dependent on how far they screw in the gas piston, which probably varies a tad depending on which assembler on the assembly line installed it. Every Type 2 and Type 3 Russian AK47 from the 1950's I have handed had a pinned on gas piston that wobbled. My Tula krink wobbles, just not much, likely because the piston is so short that it's harder to tell. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On an SGL, are the pistons welded to the carrier as WASR's or are they pinned? I know Century welds them as a way to reduce manufacturing time but was surprised to see that an M10 that I was looking at also had a welded piston. It might sound funny, but if the SGL also has a welded piston, I'm just going to get a WASR and save the $300. Up until 1988 or so the Russians pinned things like the gas block, front sight base, and gas piston in place. Starting around 1988 (don't remember exactly) they started pressing dimples in to those parts that held them in place. Since the SGL's are Russian built long after 1988, the pistons are held in place with dimples. The other parts are not because they were installed in the US by Arsenal, who pinned the parts in place. That's a good reason and suspect has something to do with 922r compliance ? I'm looking at my SGL 31-84 and as far as identifiable 922r parts, it would be the brake, trigger, handguards, grip - which is exactly 6. I can't change any of the US parts to russian parts because of that. What type of SGL would make Arsenal change out the piston? SGL's seem to always have 1 more US made part than necessary (my fixed stock one has 7 US parts and a dimpled gas piston that must be Russian). So maybe on the sidefolders since they use a Russian stock, they change to a US gas piston. No idea though, just speculating. The owners manual may tell you what parts are US made. owners manual says the carrier is Russian, but it also says the 5rd mag that comes with is as well. However mine came with a US made 5rd mag. Maybe the carrier is a US made replacement The carrier is Russian. If it is Russian, why did they change the carrier design away from the dimples, the charging handle shape, and the lightening cut from going up on the SGL31 to going off to the side on this new 21? |
AK Sponsor