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Posted: 9/2/2004 8:08:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 8:09:55 AM EDT by hardcase]
It seems like building an AK from a parts kit should leave the builder in the position of being illegal. Here's my reasoning & assumptions:


I've read on these boards that it is illegal to have a DIAS for an AR.

The AK's come as a fully automatic weapon except that the receiver is either missing or cut, so they shouldn't be illegal at that point because they are nothing more than a collection of parts.

The kit is put together as a regular semi-auto AK using the required number of US made parts.

However, now you still have the leftover parts from the fully automatic weapon.


You are left with the ability to easily convert your AK back to a fully automatic rifle. I think that the term that I've seen regarding AR's is "in constructive possession of a machine gun." So wouldn't you be illegal?

Obviously something is wrong either with my assumptions or my reasoning or the feds would have lots of new guests at Club Fed.

Where did I go wrong in this?

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:54:18 AM EDT
I don't know much about the legality issue. I do know that the AMD-65 kit I ordered from FAC did not come with a full-auto trigger group. I wonder if the other companies selling kits do actually include the full-auto sear and spring. Without these there would be nothing easy about converting to full-auto. I just want to be legal myself.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:10:16 AM EDT
Since we are on the issue, what are the exact requirements for a legal AK build? I was waiting for the gun ban to lift before I assembled mine. Does anything change when the ban lifts?
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:28:43 AM EDT
G20, I know that you will be able to have collapsible stocks then. That was one of the attractions to the PMKMS, IMO, but apparently they are no longer available.

There would be the ability to have a true flash suppressor, too, after 9/14.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:25:33 PM EDT
There is a sticky already for AWB sunset, aye.

As for the F/A question, that too came to my mind. Is the trigger group supplied with the kit F/A trigger group, and would owning it after completion of the kit, or the kit with a receiver constitute as illegal possessions or illegal intent?
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:18:48 PM EDT
The drop-in auto sear for the AR requires only the installation of the F/A bolt carrier, selector, and trigger parts to make the rifle select-fire. No modification of the receiver is required. The only reason you would have a drop-in auto sear is to convert a semi-auto to select-fire.

To make an AK select-fire requires a third hole in the receiver. Once the receiver is drilled for the auto sear pin, even if you have no F/A parts, your rifle is illegal. Even if no barrel is installed in the receiver, it's still an illegal machinegun. An AK receiver doesn't even have to have the trunnion or stock tang installed to be considered a firearm.

Possession of AK full auto parts AND a semi-auto AK doesn't make yours a machinegun. There is no easy invisible way to install the F/A parts to make the semi-auto AK into select-fire. The required modification to the receiver is obvious and basically irreversible, as there would always be some evidence of the auto sear hole being present or welded up.

Possession of M-16 parts AND a semi-auto AR-15 is VERY bad mojo. You can convert the AR to select fire in about 5 minutes with a drop-in auto sear and M-16 parts.

Most of us ditch the F/A AK trigger parts due to the parts count requirement. Tapco G2, FSE, and Red Star Arms trigger groups count as 3 parts on the list. None of these fire control groups have the auto sear notch on the hammer, so an auto sear is useless.

F/A AK trigger parts can be used in a semi-auto rifle and will not function as F/A unless the receiver is modified. There is a problem with this though... The F/A disconnector has a tail that is used to lock it out when the weapon is in F/A mode. The safety selector can still engage this tail on a semi-auto rifle and lock the disconnector out. This will let the hammer follow the bolt back and can lead to the rifle firing out-of-battery or sometimes doubling. This is extremely dangerous for the shooter. Out-of-battery firing is usually a self solving problem, as the weapon is damaged or the shooter is injured or killed. Doubling attracts the attention of range officers and others who will sometimes raise hell or copy your automobile license plate when you leave.

Possession of the AK F/A trigger group and semi-auto AK would probably raise the eyebrows of the agents serving a search warrant, but it's not illegal. It is illegal in states like Washington because the F/A parts themselves are illegal according to state law.

If you want to keep the F/A parts, neuter them. Grind the tail off the disconnector and the auto sear notch off the hammer. The original trigger group that came with my PMKMS was way smoother than the G2 set I bought for it. I neutered the F/A parts and used them in the rifle. I changed the furniture, gas piston, and used an OOW receiver to meet the parts count so I could keep the original trigger group. After some polishing the G2 was good, so I ditched the original trigger group and installed the imported furniture again.

A lot of the imported Romanian rifles use neutered F/A parts for semi-auto components. You can see where the disconnector and hammer were ground down, and there's a spacer to take up the gap where the rate reducer goes.

To build a legal rifle, you can wait till the AWB sunsets and install any "assault weapon" parts that were banned. Regardless of the AWB sunset you will still have to have no more than 10 of the named imported parts in your rifle.

The AMD-65's require a barrel extension or extended muzzle brake to meet the 16" minimum barrel length. The other option is to apply and pay for a Short Barrel Rifle permit before assembling your kit. This makes the short barreled AMD-65 an NFA weapon and you need to follow all the Federal regs for transport, storage, etc.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 6:17:24 PM EDT
Rhino, that was very well written. Concise and precise.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 6:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kevin_M4:
Rhino, that was very well written. Concise and precise.

I agree and accurate IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 4:45:08 AM EDT
First thing I do when I receive a new kit, is throw out the FCG.
They are useless, so why even keep them around?
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:13:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maxxx93:
First thing I do when I receive a new kit, is throw out the FCG.
They are useless, so why even keep them around?

I have build about a dozen rifles from various kits, ARs, G3s, FALs, and AKs. I keep the original mil-spec FCG parts because they are MIL-SPEC!!! I use the correct number of US parts but always try and use the most important original parts (safty wise) of the weapon. Anyway, if you throw out all of the FCG and you start having some difficulties with firing, it is more difficult to try and pin down the exact cause if you can't install a known and proven part.
Also, is not a big deal to me if a made in US pistol grip, or gas piston breaks, it can be a very big deal if an out of spec (or poorly heat teated steel part) US sear does not engage and you end up with a KB!

To each their own.
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