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Posted: 7/8/2003 9:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 6:30:29 PM EDT by 4gma]
A friend just picked up an Excellent condition Maddi made in '93 (I'm, assuming that's what the engraving on the barrel trunion with a "93" electro-penciled in means) for CHEAP ($200). It has a thumb hole and a welded on barrel nut, but the FSB pin that locks the FH in place appears to function. He wants to make it look EVIL.

As long as he puts enough US made parts on or in it, can he have the evil features? I know he will have to comply with the import restrictions from the 1989 law but since it was made before the AWB shouldnt he be ok as long as he has enough US parts?

Since I'm the one who's going to end up 'helping' ie., doing it I thought I should get some confirmation so we dont end up roomates courtesy of the taxpayers.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:43:42 AM EDT
You've got it right. As long as you have the right number and type of US parts, you'll be OK.

Ross
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 4:46:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 1:22:26 PM EDT
I have a laminated stock that I made that matches the rest of the furniture perfectly and its about a half inch longer so I'll probably give him that (he gets tired of guns quick and I usually get the first offer when he sells/trades - wink, wink). Several years ago I picked up a few russian red bakelite pistol grips so we will probably use one as well - I think it will look more authentic.

Whats a good source for and what is the correct gas port/bayonet lug combo to get the Russian look? I figured K-var but just want to make sure I get the 'correct' one.

Do you see any problems if we make some of the parts ourselves? I realize no reciepts, but if we make it here its a US part.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 1:30:45 PM EDT
so even though it was imported in 93 its ok to have the evil features? I thought for those you had to have it bfore the 89 import ban?

I might have to check the date on my Maddi.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 4:40:22 PM EDT
Anyone?

Whats a good source for and what is the correct gas port/bayonet lug combo to get the Russian look? I figured K-var but just want to make sure I get the 'correct' one.

Do you see any problems if we make some of the parts ourselves? I realize no reciepts, but if we make it here its a US part.

Link Posted: 7/10/2003 5:04:20 PM EDT
I think what he is asking is can it have Pre-Ban features if it has the correct amount of American parts. I don't ever recall that being the case. If that were true, everyone would be making their MAK90s "preban" by adding the neccesary parts.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:28:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 6:29:34 PM EDT by 4gma]
Ok. My post may have been confusing. So here goes...

Foreign rifle, made before the AWB (1993).

AND

The rifle was made and IMPORTED after the 89 ban on 'nonsporting rifles'.

So as I understand things - the laws - A foreign made rifle must either NOT possess characteristics that make it non-importable.

OR

The rifle must have enough US made parts that it not considered a Foreign made rifle. This IMO is the reason we can buy SAR1's, 2's, and 3's - They have enough US made parts to be considered US made.

So, if I take a rifle made and imported after the 89 import ban and install/replace enough parts to make the rifle fit in the US made category, eg. SAR1 AND the rifle was made before the 1994 AWB I have a US made 'preban' firearm.

Right Campy? Ross?

Now if this is okay and I believe it is what is the correct gas chamber to use when I/we replace the current one with its amputated bayonet lug?
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 7:37:45 PM EDT
Where do I look om my Maddi for import date?
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 8:22:22 PM EDT
Both my buddy's and an RPK I bought from Inrange have a date on the left side of the barrel trunion. Its the last 2 digits of the year - ie 93,94. And its in the center of a electric pencil attempt at something.

My understanding is no date = pre '89.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 9:03:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4gma:
Both my buddy's and an RPK I bought from Inrange have a date on the left side of the barrel trunion. Its the last 2 digits of the year - ie 93,94. And its in the center of a electric pencil attempt at something.

My understanding is no date = pre '89.



Thanks!
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 2:53:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 2:55:25 AM EDT by Ross]
OK, no matter what you do to your gun, you will have a post-ban gun. If you have a foregin made gun, you can't have evil features. If you have a US made gun, you can have one evil feature (usually the pistol grip for most people). Since you have a foregin gun now, the way to get the pistol grip is to change it over into a "domestic". That can be done because of the way the law considers a gun to be "foregin" or "domestic". It does this by parts count of certain parts. It's not a total parts count, just the number of forgien parts, and only certain parts, that decide it's fate.

For your gun you would need to replace 6 foregin parts with 6 US parts. These have to be the right parts. Sights, and other BS won't work. There is an official list of parts that count, and only those parts count towards making it a US gun. Once you have the right number of the right parts, you're Maddi is now a US made gun. Presto! You may now have ONE evil feature on your POST-BAN US gun.

It doens't matter when a gun was made or imported. What matters is the configuration of the gun when the AW ban went into effect. As your gun was (is still, actually) in post-ban configuration, and the AW ban has gone into effect, your gun is POST-BAN, and always will be until the AW ban goes away. You can change parts to make it a "domestic" which allows you one evil feature (just like a post-ban AR with a pistol-grip), but you can never make it pre-ban.

Evil features are(for a rifle):
Pistol grip
folding (or telescopic)stock
bayolug
flash hider
grenade launcher

If your gun is "domestic" you get to choose one to have. Obviously things like a folding stock are pretty useless without a pistol grip, but that would be two (one too many) and pretty hard to do otherwise. If you changed enough parts in a Norinco M14s, you could have a flash-hider, but no bayo lug as again that would be two (which is not one).

Your gun is a post-ban. You cannot have any of the above evil features on it. You can have one of the evil features if it's a "domestic". Changing the parts allows your rifle to be "reborn" a domestic and give you ONE evil feature.

DO NOT hesitate to ask further questions about anything you do not understand. I gaurentee others are learning as much as you are from this thread, even though it's "old hat" to many.

Ross
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:29:33 AM EDT
Thanks Ross.

I see what youre saying. It appears that your arguement and more importantly ATF's would be along the same lines used for a striped 'preban' AR receiver that was not assembled into EVIL garb before the '94 ban.

Now that I think about it more your right.

However for clarity sake ... if sometime between the purchase of the maddi in question say in April of 93, the correct # of US parts were added and then the desired EVIL features where installed. Legally it would be ok - at least this is my understanding. Since the rifle wasnt in preban config at the time of the ban, it cant be now. Its a postban - Period. Same deal with some AR receivers.

Let me (and anybody else) know if this is correct.

Link Posted: 7/11/2003 2:14:51 PM EDT
I am of the personal opinion that that would be correctly legal in theory, however I 'm not the federal judge. It would have been virtually impossible in reality though. No one made any US AK parts until after the 94 ban. So you'd have a pretty hard time proving that you converted it before that.

The reason for this is that there wasn't any money in it for importers to bother. The thumbhole stock allowed you to not add anything but some junk furniture and some grinding time to get the AK into the US to sell. The FALs, AKs, etc didn't become an issue until the ATF decided that thumbholes weren't allowed on imports either. Then importers had the incentive to go with US parts, as that was really the only way to bring any of the guns in. The by-porduct of this was since it was a US gun, it could have a pistol grip.

As none of this happened until after the 94 ban, it's pretty unlikely that you'd be able to prove that you have an AK with US parts that would meet the 94 ban.

This did happen with some guns. Century built M14-type guns with Chinese receivers and US parts kits before the 94 ban. The result was that it had enough US parts to be a US gun and those are pre-ban. CAI didn't plan it that way, it's just the way it turned out after the smoke cleared.

In the end, since no one gave any thought at all to the US parts count, and no one made any US parts in quantity, you'd have a pretty hard time proving that it was a true pre-ban. I suppose there's a couple out there, but I'd never honestly believe the story without ALOT of supporting evidence if I was sitting on a jury.

Ross
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:16:12 PM EDT
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