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Posted: 1/4/2010 8:19:32 PM EDT
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I finally got this baby to the range today. I must preface this by saying I did not really get the chance to make conclusive trouble shooting tests so this all may be rather tentative. It was in the low 20’s so just reloading mags and messing with small bits in tight places was a chore. PLUS the diversion the sear breaking on my buddy’s M53 provided a rare opportunity to run multiple belts through one of Hitler’s Zipper’s in FULL AUTO. Thankfully we were the only one’s out today. THAT was awesome AND . . . intimidating!!!
When I first got this rifle the bolt cycled wonderfully smooth even though all parts were very dry. I broke it down and scrubbed it inside and out with CLP. I used various cleaners on the bore and patches were B-L-A-C-K for a while. I reassembled it and now the action is very clunky and tight no matter how much I work it. Even after firing over 150 rds through it today the bolt is very hard to pull past the 1/3rd point as it contacts the trigger. What’s up with that? It was so smooth before. My Underfolder glides. The 8mm ammo was 198gr Yugo CEP 5438 * 11-1955 and about one out of eight were dimpled-primer duds in this rifle. The M53 averaged 2 in 50 as duds. Interestingly, if I rechambered the duds later they would always fire. We roughly sighted in the 4x ZRAK scope on an 18” x 18” plate at 100 yds. Musta dialed it in juuust right cause we could easily get a respectable hit count on orange clays scattered on 100 and 200 yd burms. Slapping an 18” x 30” plate over and over again at 300yds was a cinch. I really, really liked the ZRAK style reticle and sighting concept. I’d like to have a 10x .308 version of this thing with charged tritium on my M1A. I have never picked up a rifle and got it so “on target” so fast as this one. I know that 50s Yugo is supposed to be “blah” but at 300yds it sure made it into the neighborhood. I had 1970’s light magnetic Romy with me but never got around to it today. Overall the operating action of this rifle+mags, out of the box, was disastrous. All manner of failures were experienced: · Many partially fed rounds denting cases · Many completely non-fed rounds · Many times during these fail or partial fails to feed the bolt was almost impossible to pull back. I had to free it by slamming open against a wooden post. · A couple times rounds wouldn’t extract after a chip was pulled off the rim of the case. · One stove pipe ejection. A total of five magazines came with the rifle. They were boiled, degreased and oiled. I loaded the first magazine twice without a single operational failure save for an occasional dud primer. Of all the mags BHO was not a feature so I did not experience the plunging-follower problem I’ve read about so often. Three of the next four mags all produced the above listed problems. The last mag wouldn’t fit into the receiver. After jimmying for 10-20 seconds I finally got it to seat and the rifle cycled flawlessly. It took another 10-20 seconds to jimmy it out of the receiver. I went back to the first magazine and reloaded it 4-5 times and NO PROBLEMS. If I can get this thing working I may like it more than my M1A. BUT as a 20 yr old MilSurp rifle with a decent barrel I have never had a single cycling problem with my M1a. I found a few boxes of M75 ammo online so I’m looking forward to laying it in a sled on a warmer day and seeing how it does on paper. The sun went down and the temps dropped quickly plus we were having too much fun shooting the M53 in full-auto to dig in and analyze the problems. I’m thinking the source of most of my problems is bad mags and/or spring tolerances. Or might this be a receiver tolerance being finicky with various mags. Any ideas? |
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All that 1950ish Yugo ammo has primers that are set deep in the brass. Many people have problems while shooting that ammo in mausers as you - just dimpling the primer. The fix for the bolt guns was to change to a stiffer spring, but I'm not sure that is an option for you. When I replaced the stock springs im my mausers with the next heavier spring, I think it was a 21lb or 24lb, never had anothe rproblem with 1955 yugo ammo.
Good luck with your rifle. |
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I finally got this baby to the range today. I must preface this by saying I did not really get the chance to make conclusive trouble shooting tests so this all may be rather tentative. It was in the low 20’s so just reloading mags and messing with small bits in tight places was a chore. PLUS the diversion the sear breaking on my buddy’s M53 provided a rare opportunity to run multiple belts through one of Hitler’s Zipper’s in FULL AUTO. Thankfully we were the only one’s out today. THAT was awesome AND . . . intimidating!!! The sun went down and the temps dropped quickly plus we were having too much fun shooting the M53 in full-auto to dig in and analyze the problems. I’m thinking the source of most of my problems is bad mags and/or spring tolerances. Or might this be a receiver tolerance being finicky with various mags. Any ideas? I am assuming that the M53 is one of the semi-auto rifles that WLA manufactures for Century Arms? I think it might be a good idea to have your friend contact us at Wise Lite Arms about the repair of that M53. There is contact info on our web site, or the WLAwarehous web site... Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT |
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I am assuming that the M53 is one of the semi-auto rifles that WLA manufactures for Century Arms?
Yes Richard. He is an FFL. It will be dealt with Immediately. We were just tickled we got to rip it like it was the real thing. Does Wise Lite make the M76 receiver? Can you comment on the detailed report I had to write (below) for CAI . . . . Now I did not closely inspect the boltface before first firing but I am pretty sure it was clean. There was a ring of dark soot around the firing pin and this is what I found after cleaning. See what only 150 rds of 11-1955 Yugo MAY have done . . . http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4839.jpg http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4841.jpg http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4851.jpg It's going back to the distributor for exchange. Century will no longer put you on the phone with their gunsmiths. You have to submit a detailed report of the "issue" in writing. . . . REPORT FOR CAI . . . . My basis for considering the performance of the rifle to have multiple defects is experience and comparison with my M70 Underfolder as well as a detailed discussion with an “AK knowledgeable” gunsmith. When I received the rifle it was very dry. I field stripped it and scrubbed it with CLP. I cleaned the bore and patches were very blacl for some time. I disassembled the five magazines, boiled and degreased the cosmoline out of them, lightly oiled and reassembled (parts were not exchanged between mags). A) Bolt - The action is very tight and clunky. 1) Even after firing over 150 rds the bolt+follower are very hard to pull out of battery. Unless the full power and full action of the recoil spring are allowed to drive the bolt+follower forward there is about a ¼” of space left between the front of the follower and the barrel. It must be manually pushed forward insuring the bolt is in battery. 2) When pulling the bolt past 1/3rd through the action (front to back) the bottom of the follower seems to push excessively hard against the trigger as the bolt follower contacts the single tang trigger it hangs very tight as well. At this point the bolt becomes VERY difficult to pull. 3) When pulled all the way back the bolt+follower seem to want to stick in the open position, however, the spring provides enough force to drive it forward. 4) When cycling the action of the bolt by hand without the spring installed it is almost impossible to “work” from forward to back or back to forward. B) Magazine + Action Magazine #1: The rifle cycled perfectly and this magazine was reloaded 5-7 times Magazine #2, 3, 4: · Many partially fed rounds denting cases · Many completely non-fed rounds · A couple times during these fails or partial fails to feed the bolt was almost impossible to pull back. I had to free it by forcing it open lightly bumping it against a wooden post. · A couple times rounds wouldn’t extract after a chip was pulled off the rim of a case. · One stove pipe ejection. Magazine #5: This last mag would barely fit into the receiver at all seeming too long (front to rear) . After jimmying for 10-20 seconds I finally got it to seat and the rifle cycled flawlessly. It took another 10-20 seconds to jimmy it out of the receiver. Laying all the magazines side by side (on various sides) reveals that the magazines have different dimensional tolerances (sizes and lengths). BHO does not function on any magazine at all leading me to believe that the magazine well is milled out of spec on this receiver. This may also account for the rough action of the bolt+follower since all is not in alignment. A trained eye will probably be able to identify unusual wear points on the moving parts. C) Bayonet does not fit the barrel. |
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Quoted:
I am assuming that the M53 is one of the semi-auto rifles that WLA manufactures for Century Arms?
Yes Richard. He is an FFL. It will be dealt with Immediately. We were just ticked we got to rip it like it was the real thing. Does Wise Lite make the M76 receiver? Can you comment on the detailed report I had to write (below) for CAI . . . . Now I did not closely inspect the boltface before first firing but I am pretty sure it was clean. There was a ring of dark soot around the firing pin and this is what I found after cleaning. See what only 150 rds of 11-1955 Yugo MAY have done . . . http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4839.jpg http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4841.jpg http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/kmad2001/DSCN4851.jpg It's going back to the distributor for exchange. Century will no longer put you on the phone with their gunsmiths. You have to submit a detailed report of the "issue" in writing. . . . REPORT FOR CAI . . . . My basis for considering the performance of the rifle to have multiple defects is experience and comparison with my M70 Underfolder as well as a detailed discussion with an “AK knowledgeable” gunsmith. When I received the rifle it was very dry. I field stripped it and scrubbed it with CLP. I cleaned the bore and patches were very blacl for some time. I disassembled the five magazines, boiled and degreased the cosmoline out of them, lightly oiled and reassembled (parts were not exchanged between mags). A) Bolt - The action is very tight and clunky. 1) Even after firing over 150 rds the bolt+follower are very hard to pull out of battery. Unless the full power and full action of the recoil spring are allowed to drive the bolt+follower forward there is about a ¼” of space left between the front of the follower and the barrel. It must be manually pushed forward insuring the bolt is in battery. 2) When pulling the bolt past 1/3rd through the action (front to back) the bottom of the follower seems to push excessively hard against the trigger as the bolt follower contacts the single tang trigger it hangs very tight as well. At this point the bolt becomes VERY difficult to pull. 3) When pulled all the way back the bolt+follower seem to want to stick in the open position, however, the spring provides enough force to drive it forward. 4) When cycling the action of the bolt by hand without the spring installed it is almost impossible to “work” from forward to back or back to forward. B) Magazine + Action Magazine #1: The rifle cycled perfectly and this magazine was reloaded 5-7 times Magazine #2, 3, 4: · Many partially fed rounds denting cases · Many completely non-fed rounds · A couple times during these fails or partial fails to feed the bolt was almost impossible to pull back. I had to free it by forcing it open lightly bumping it against a wooden post. · A couple times rounds wouldn’t extract after a chip was pulled off the rim of a case. · One stove pipe ejection. Magazine #5: This last mag would barely fit into the receiver at all seeming too long (front to rear) . After jimmying for 10-20 seconds I finally got it to seat and the rifle cycled flawlessly. It took another 10-20 seconds to jimmy it out of the receiver. Laying all the magazines side by side (on various sides) reveals that the magazines have different dimensional tolerances (sizes and lengths). BHO does not function on any magazine at all leading me to believe that the magazine well is milled out of spec on this receiver. This may also account for the rough action of the bolt+follower since all is not in alignment. A trained eye will probably be able to identify unusual wear points on the moving parts. C) Bayonet does not fit the barrel. WLA has some "post sample" M53's. In the past we have placed a pair of them on a twin AA mount, that makes one HECK of a lot of noise! When your friend contacts us, make sure he provides a phone number so our Senior Weapons Tech for the M-53 can give him a call back. WLA used to deliver the M76 receivers to Century. The early guns used a receiver from another vendor. That may be the case again since they cancelled that production order with us. All the assembly and finish work on the M76 is done by another company as our quote for the job was too high. So, I guess that means there isn't much I can add to your document to Century. We just don't have any idea what is done during the assembly. I do find it of interest that the magazines you have are different dimesions. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT |
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WLA used to deliver the M76 receivers to Century. The early guns used a receiver from another vendor. That may be the case again since they cancelled that production order with us. All the assembly and finish work on the M76 is done by another company as our quote for the job was too high. So, I guess that means there isn't much I can add to your document to Century. We just don't have any idea what is done during the assembly. I do find it of interest that the magazines you have are different dimesions. Thank you Richard. My understanding is that ORF made them for some time with high receiver out-of-tolerance failure rates. I thought you guys were doing them these days but I am hearing elsewhere (maybe on this forum) they are now done by a company called Patterson. I don't understand how a rifle like mine could have passed a basic QC test. I am suspicious the rifle (or maybe the barrel+parts) may have been recycled out from another shooter that returned it. While the receiver was spotless the barrel was absolutely filthy when I received it. WAY more filth than what could have been generated by one or two test rounds. LiqMetal, I won't know what the resolution is with this one. It's going back to the Distributor today (not the CAI Svc Dept). I don't get it. . . . everybody likes to "bag" on CAI but if they turned out so much garbage they would have to eventually go out of business. Weeeeeell this one shure is a lemon. |
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WLA used to deliver the M76 receivers to Century. The early guns used a receiver from another vendor. That may be the case again since they cancelled that production order with us. All the assembly and finish work on the M76 is done by another company as our quote for the job was too high. So, I guess that means there isn't much I can add to your document to Century. We just don't have any idea what is done during the assembly. I do find it of interest that the magazines you have are different dimesions. Thank you Richard. My understanding is that ORF made them for some time with high receiver out-of-tolerance failure rates. I thought you guys were doing them these days but I am hearing elsewhere (maybe on this forum) they are now done by a company called Patterson. I don't understand how a rifle like mine could have passed a basic QC test. I am suspicious the rifle (or maybe the barrel+parts) may have been recycled out from another shooter that returned it. While the receiver was spotless the barrel was absolutely filthy when I received it. WAY more filth than what could have been generated by one or two test rounds. LiqMetal, I won't know what the resolution is with this one. It's going back to the Distributor today (not the CAI Svc Dept). I don't get it. . . . everybody likes to "bag" on CAI but if they turned out so much garbage they would have to eventually go out of business. Weeeeeell this one shure is a lemon. Sorry that your M76 was a disappointment. Some of these part sets are more "used" than others! The barrels on the M76 are new US made. I have to wonder if the distributor shipped you a rifle that was returned previously? I do know such things happen. We had a customer receive a M-53 that had been run hard and shipped to him FILTHY and broken. My recomendation was to exchange the M53 and let the distributor work with us on the repair. That gets you back on the shooting bench with MUCH less fuss. About Patterson Machine,,they are an industry partner to WLA. They do the base machine work, and we do the final finish work and the heat treating. The design/dimensions fo the M-76 receiver were provide to us by Century. We, of course, had to fix some areas, and were never paid for the R&D work! Well, that is ALL history now.. By the way, did your friend contact us about his M-53? We did have contact from an owner in TN. needing a part replaced. I am hoping it was the same gent.. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT |
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Richard, So when did you guys part ways with CAI and apx how many did WLA do? My receiver is stamped . . . .
MOD. M76 SPORTER SN CM76007xx CAL. 8mm CAI GEORGIA VT I can't imagine there are many of these out there. There doesn't appear to be enough to fullfill any spare parts market and I don't find a lot of traffic about them on line. Many complaints just like mine and occasional MAJOR praises. I guess the original Mitchell imports are becoming a thing of legend. I just came across one guy that is asking almost $6k for his. I think its a fantastic rifle esp after shooting it. I just want a current one that works. Yea that was my buddy getting his rig fixed. We're all bummed but of course it's the RIGHT thing to do. I did notice his trigger really stung my finger per shot in semi before it cut loose. Almost as though there was lightning fast erratic micro-vibration during trigger pull. |
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Richard, So when did you guys part ways with CAI and apx how many did WLA do? My receiver is stamped . . . . MOD. M76 SPORTER SN CM76007xx CAL. 8mm CAI GEORGIA VT I can't imagine there are many of these out there. There doesn't appear to be enough to fullfill any spare parts market and I don't find a lot of traffic about them on line. Many complaints just like mine and occasional MAJOR praises. I guess the original Mitchell imports are becoming a thing of legend. I just came across one guy that is asking almost $6k for his. I think its a fantastic rifle esp after shooting it. I just want a current one that works. Yea that was my buddy getting his rig fixed. We're all bummed but of course it's the RIGHT thing to do. I did notice his trigger really stung my finger per shot in semi before it cut loose. Almost as though there was lightning fast erratic micro-vibration during trigger pull. There was a time when I knew how many M-76's that Century imported. They ALL went to manufacturing, the only kit sales I know of were 6 or 8 WLA bought (calling in a favor). We bought original barrels from APEX to build those guns. Tony has one and I have one. They are glossy hot blued. The first I heard of the end of M76 receiver contract was about October(?) We had some that didn't get delivered, they sold pretty fast. I don't know how many of these receivers we made, and I am not brave enough to ask my Office manager to give me a count out of the bound book! We are always minimum manned, and have TONS to do! I am glad to know your friend has started to get his M-53 put right. Those are a great gun. I do know we have a LOT of them delivered! Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT |
| A couple months ago I corresponded with someone at WLA about putting one of these together. Is there any source of kits/receivers that you know of? I heard elsewhere Green Mountain made barrels for them as well. I looked up APEX barrels on line but mainly found links to paintball guns. I have a feeling that after I get a ZRAK the cost going this route would be 2x or more of what I paid with no body to go back to for warranty claims. Would you agree? Or do you guys warrant your assemblies after parts are supplied? |
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A couple months ago I corresponded with someone at WLA about putting one of these together. Is there any source of kits/receivers that you know of? I heard elsewhere Green Mountain made barrels for them as well. I looked up APEX barrels on line but mainly found links to paintball guns. I have a feeling that after I get a ZRAK the cost going this route would be 2x or more of what I paid with no body to go back to for warranty claims. Would you agree? Or do you guys warrant your assemblies after parts are supplied? Right now, to my knowledge there are no M-76 kits being sold. Last we checked with Century they were ALL being built into rifles. We have the cut raw materiels to make about 40 more M-76 receivers, but we will need to see the demand before expending the time/money to manufacture them. The last parice we had on the M-76 receivers was $299 delivered in the USA. Here is the link to the M76 barrels at APEX:: M76 barrel You actually just reminded me to "bug" the owner at APEX about checking availabilty of M-76 kits. AND, that e-mail was just sent.. Actually, Wise Lite Arms covers all the guns we manufacture with a one year warranty. We do that for individual builds and Commercial production runs. Even after the year is up, we do pro-rated work. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Wise Lite Arms Boyd, Texas |
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Actually, Wise Lite Arms covers all the guns we manufacture with a one year warranty. We do that for individual builds and Commercial production runs. Even after the year is up, we do pro-rated work. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Wise Lite Arms Boyd, Texas Greetings, This brings up a question I would certainly like to know. I am ready to purchase a Century M76 and would dearly like to know how to tell if it has one of your receivers. How can I tell if the rifle has one of yours or someone elses i.e. ORF? Many thanks |
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I was looking for the same info. Mine was marked . . .
MOD. M76 SPORTER SN CM76007xx CAL. 8mm CAI GEORGIA VT I heard that if it said CAI on it then it was a Patterson/WLA. The old Ohio Rapid Fire's said ORF (I think). If the relationship with WLA ended only in Oct then I would guess that current shipping inventory is probably still WLA. Richard, Can you corroborate any of this? |
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Well, to tell the truth, I have never seen any other M76 receivers except the ones manufactured at Wise Lite Arms.
So, I can't define or describe any features of one over the other. Only our Office manager has access to our bound book of serial numbers, and I am not going to ask to tie up her time looking thru blocks of serial numbers. Honestly, she would just say "no" if I asked! What I can share is an image of an WLA build M76 and a couple of our unfinished receivers. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT 
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I can't define or describe any features of one over the other. http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8185/m76receivers.jpg Can you say how yours were marked? Mines says . . . MOD. M76 SPORTER SN CM76007xx CAL. 8mm CAI GEORGIA VT Is this stamping done by Century or you guys? If your receivers were serialized then I'd assume this stamping or something similar would have been put on by WLA as the serial number is in the midst of all stamped information with consistent font, placement . . . etc. Can you say how and what identification was stamped by WLA? |
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Sorry for the slow response.
I was working this weekend. I had to extract my M-76 from storage to examine the markings... Looking at the bottom of the receiver, bolt handle towards your body, these markings are parallel with the bore. CAI GEORGIA, VT MOD. M76 SPORTER CAL. 8MM S.N. CM760075X These above markings are applied by us to all the receivers. We have ATF variance letters in place so that these receivers have no WLA or Patterson Machine marking. Mine also has "Mfg. By WISE LITE ARMS Boyd, Tx." stamped on the left side as we actually fully manufactured this rifle. These receivers are very tough. During testing we took one and clamped the middle of it in a vise, right at the top edge. We turned the jaws in until both sides touched each other. Then we took the pressure off by backing off the vise jaws. The receiver went back into shape! We also hardness test each receiver after the heat treatment. I am hearing that Century will build all the kits into rifles. Regards, Richard C. Hamer Factory Representative Wise Lite Arms Class II Manufacturer 07 FFL SOT |
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Just received the replacement set. Action appears to be normal and as smooth as my Underfolder AND bolt-hold-open is working on the one mag that was in the rifle. Need to boil and scrub the other four mags, give the barrel a few wipes (we'll see if this one's filthy) and quick detail of the rest. The bolt face not pitted but it does show rings (probably from milling).
This one seems "right" and new. Not someone else’s return/problem. |
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