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Posted: 7/5/2008 6:51:27 PM EDT
Love shooting this gun, but its ths accuracy that kills me. I mean its accurate, but only to a certain point. I LOVE shooting the m4 but i want to shoot the ak more. Any suggestions to make it more accurate??
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 7:47:16 PM EDT
The 7.62x39 AKM isnt designed to be as accurate as the AR platform. You can use some more consistant ammo and tighten up groups some, but what the hell?

It does its job just fine as is. It is plenty accurate for man sized targets at up to 200 meters or more.
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 7:58:32 PM EDT
exactly, this platform is a minute of man weapon, not minute of angle. could it be done? maybe, though I doubt you could make a weapon like the ak MOA. the main question is, why?

know your weapon. realize it's capabilities AND it's limitations, and realize it's not an AR.
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 8:27:03 PM EDT
I don't think that's necessarily true. The platform can be as accurate as any others, its just normally people shoot AKs with bottom of the barrel ammo, lousy trigger pulls, and short barrels. Take a 20 inch .223 or .308 Saiga out with handloads and you'll compete all day with the AR guys I guarantee you. But take a WASR and a box of Wolf and you'll get the kind of results the AK is typically known for.
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 8:35:25 PM EDT
If you want a more accurate AK, buy an AK74. The ones I've shot do groups around 2" at 100 yards, where the 7.62's I've shot do anywhere from 4" to 6" groups at the same range.

I guess the smaller projectiles don't cause as much barrel whip...

Other than that, out of at least 20 different 7.62x39 AK's I've shot over the years, only one of them ever held a tighter group. That one was a Yugo M70 underfolder believe it or not. It does 2" groups at 100 yards. Oddly enough, I currently own that one.
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 8:45:00 PM EDT
practice, practice, practice, that's what works for me. I can hit a piece of dental floss at 1000 yds with my AK, but I did practice once or twice with it
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:07:41 AM EDT
The average AK can shoot more accurately than most shooters can aim. Try bench resting it and firing at 100 yards, you will be surpised at the inherent accuracy in the gun.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 6:22:08 AM EDT
I have a Arsenal SAM7R with a good 3-9 scope on it. With Wolf it will shoot 3-4 inch groups all day. With good handloads using 125 grain soft point bullets it will do 1 1/2 at 100 yards. I also have a Vector sidefolder with iron sights that shoot 4-6 at 100 yards. griffy
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 6:31:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3: That one was a Yugo M70 underfolder believe it or not. It does 2" groups at 100 yards. Oddly enough, I currently own that one.
Probably has something to do with not having a chrome lined barrel.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 6:33:54 AM EDT
reload your own ammo. find what works best. then makes lots of it. with quality ammo you might be able to make holes touch every once in a while.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 6:45:10 AM EDT
Change out the rear sight with a peep style site. Try a Krebs or a red Star arms. The rear sight sucks on these rifles. For me anyhow. WarDawg
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 7:48:18 AM EDT
This question is asked a lot ( I know, because I've asked it too) and this is some of the good advice I've been given. Search yahoo or youtube for the slow motion video of an AK during firing and cycling. After watching it you'll notice flexing of the barrel, as well as the receiver. This points out the problems for obtaining MOA performance quite clearly with the platform, especially with receivers made from sheet metal. This is reduced considerably but not totally eliminated with Chinese AK's and certain others, since their receivers were made with thicker sheet metal (1.6mm if I recall compared to 0.40) So in a nutshell, the milled receiver AK's are less prone to flex due to a more rigid design, and if there was a heavier barrel available (someone PLEASE manufacture one), these problems could be minimized. Next up is ammo selection. Buy a bunch of different loads from different manufacturers and shoot from a sandbag or rest, and then document ALL your loads. Then pick the one that groups the best. Minute of man was the designated accuracy designed into this weapon, and ammo selection at the moment seems to be the only real way to improve its performance with its current manufacture. With the proper ammo selection, 3 MOA is possible, and thats not too shabby for this weapon. Hope that helps!
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:39:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:53:42 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By timb3:
If you want a more accurate AK, buy an AK74. The ones I've shot do groups around 2" at 100 yards, where the 7.62's I've shot do anywhere from 4" to 6" groups at the same range.

I guess the smaller projectiles don't cause as much barrel whip...

Other than that, out of at least 20 different 7.62x39 AK's I've shot over the years, only one of them ever held a tighter group. That one was a Yugo M70 underfolder believe it or not. It does 2" groups at 100 yards. Oddly enough, I currently own that one.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 9:25:58 AM EDT
How the hell are people getting 2 inch groups using iron sights on the AK?

At 100 yards, it is almost impossible to even keep the sights on a damn soda can, unless you are using a bench rest and the gun is rock sturdy, so that it fires at the same exact spot, I don't believe it.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 10:27:00 AM EDT
If you can shoot better than the rifle allows you run into ballistics. 7.62x39 is just a terrible precision round. AK's in 5.56 usually have better groups due to the design and ballistic characteristics of those cartridges. Match grade custom loaded 7.62x39 will still only give you so much accuracy and repeatability due to its design.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 11:50:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
Change out the rear sight with a peep style site. Try a Krebs or a red Star arms. The rear sight sucks on these rifles. For me anyhow. WarDawg

Tech-sights has also announced that they are going to produce a rear mounted peep sight for the ak.That will be good because it will add about 10 inches to the sight radius and all you have to do is focus on the front post.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 2:02:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
If you can shoot better than the rifle allows you run into ballistics. 7.62x39 is just a terrible precision round. AK's in 5.56 usually have better groups due to the design and ballistic characteristics of those cartridges. Match grade custom loaded 7.62x39 will still only give you so much accuracy and repeatability due to its design.



Yep.

The 'short & fat' .30 cal flat base bullet is inherently unstable compared to the 5.45 & 5.56.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:05:13 PM EDT
I just got back from an appleseed, and I watched the guy shooting next to me get consistent hits at 300 yards... he was shooting a yugo underfolder.

I was shooting a bulg 74 and was getting consistent hits out to 400 yards. Granted, my 74 has a turned down front sight post and mojo rear sight as well as a GI style arm loop sling.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:05:34 PM EDT
You could build one like this. Arsenal milled 223. Shilen heavy barrel.
Custom gas block build from a solid block of SS with custom gas tube.
Will easily shoot 2" group @ 100 yards with wolf.



Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:06:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
The average AK can shoot more accurately than most shooters can aim. Try bench resting it and firing at 100 yards, you will be surpised at the inherent accuracy in the gun.


big +1 here! I don't know many shooters who can consistently shoot 4moa with irons from field positions, and there are plenty of ak's capable of 4moa or better.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:33:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2008 3:33:36 PM EDT by PhreakMode]

Originally Posted By Dragonov54R:
You could build one like this. Arsenal milled 223. Shilen heavy barrel.
Custom gas block build from a solid block of SS with custom gas tube.
Will easily shoot 2" group @ 100 yards with wolf.





Well there you go, follow that mans example (let us know how it works out for you and your bank account)
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 3:35:51 PM EDT
Try a set of Mojo sights.... It works wonders.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 7:04:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragonov54R:
You could build one like this. Arsenal milled 223. Shilen heavy barrel.
Custom gas block build from a solid block of SS with custom gas tube.
Will easily shoot 2" group @ 100 yards with wolf.

i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/IMG_1972.jpg
i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/IMG_1973.jpg
i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/514ba3c1.jpg


SO whats an approximate price range on this setup if you dont mind, Seems like it would have been cheaper to just buy a rifle that was made to accurately shoot a .223. Also putting a solid buttstock may bring your groups down somewhat.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 7:21:50 PM EDT
The AK is accurate enough for what it's for ...which is not firing accross manicured ranges. AS some others have already stated if you want a more accurate version get a chinese with the heavier reciever and barrel. This was shot with a Polytech AKS with spike bayo. @ 50m to sight in. The target is a 50ft. pistol target.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 7:23:07 PM EDT
My Yugoslavian M70AB2 from Century is the best AK I've owned thus far and the most accurate, even moreso than my SAR-2 at 100 meters.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 7:39:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragonov54R:
You could build one like this. Arsenal milled 223. Shilen heavy barrel.
Custom gas block build from a solid block of SS with custom gas tube.
Will easily shoot 2" group @ 100 yards with wolf.

i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/IMG_1972.jpg
i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/IMG_1973.jpg
i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Krink545/514ba3c1.jpg



Of all the people on the dark side, I am probably the biggest proponent of 5.56 AK's if you know about me. However I have to ask why? I'm not one to shy away from expensive AK's having owned the first in the US Bulgarian stamped .223 sidefolding AK eight years ago and a very nice Tula Krink- both over $3K each but why?

RR
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:26:52 PM EDT
Ammo makes a big difference. That russian shlop will only get so far. I don't mind the stuff cause it's the cheapest around.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
How the hell are people getting 2 inch groups using iron sights on the AK?

At 100 yards, it is almost impossible to even keep the sights on a damn soda can, unless you are using a bench rest and the gun is rock sturdy, so that it fires at the same exact spot, I don't believe it.


This statement insinuates that people can not do 2moa with irons only with a bench rest.

Im not a shooter, but i can do 3moa with irons. That is with my Tantal standing using surplus. I have benched a few times with my Vector 762 2moa, but usually 4moa.

A good friend of mine can shoot within a quarter's radius 5 out of 5 shots @ 50meters with his AR in the prone position. I know he can keep his sights steady for a 100 meter shot.

I dont have the eyes to shoot 2moa with an AKM47, but some people do and have the skill to do so. I do agree that the average shooter using an ak does 5-6moa.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 9:42:29 PM EDT
get a vepr. the .223 ones are crazy accurate.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:28:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 6:33:26 AM EDT by THEHITMAN]
yugo 70b
very good and accurate 762x39
price is right


this was the 25yd zero target ----first time shooting this rifle

top left was the last dot.

I have found that if you have a good crown at the muzzle is the first step.
different flash hiders can change your grouping.
hormonics
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:51:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 7:52:05 AM EDT by Melendez402]
The AK47 design is lean towards a machine gun than a rifle. It was design for reliability and fire power. If you want accuracy Vepr AK47's are accurate, but the thing is finding one.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:53:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By THEHITMAN:
yugo 70b
very good and accurate 762x39
price is right
]i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/dickwolf/000_0200.jpg

this was the 25yd zero target ----first time shooting this rifle

top left was the last dot.

I have found that if you have a good crown at the muzzle is the first step.
different flash hiders can change your grouping.
hormonics
nice
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:18:36 AM EDT
I got this 30rd group at 100 yards yesterday, and it shocked the shit out of me.

I was firing a new setup: Polish PMKMS underfolder, with an Aimpoint Micro T1, two stage Red Star trigger, JTac brake, and the cleaning rod removed (I have heard that helps). Ammo was Wolf MC FMJ.

I just about cried when I got the flier at 12:00. It came on about the 28th round or so. Believe it or not, it only increased the group by about 1/8", but still. It's outside the black.



Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:52:28 AM EDT
a FSC47 muzzle break should help. its supposed to lessen recoil and such.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:23:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Melendez402:

Originally Posted By THEHITMAN:
yugo 70b
very good and accurate 762x39
price is right
i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/dickwolf/000_0200.jpg]]i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/dickwolf/000_0200.jpg

this was the 25yd zero target ----first time shooting this rifle

top left was the last dot.

I have found that if you have a good crown at the muzzle is the first step.
different flash hiders can change your grouping.
hormonics
nice


I have similar results with my Yugo as well.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:36:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dixiedawg:
I got this 30rd group at 100 yards yesterday, and it shocked the shit out of me.

I was firing a new setup: Polish PMKMS underfolder, with an Aimpoint Micro T1, two stage Red Star trigger, JTac brake, and the cleaning rod removed (I have heard that helps). Ammo was Wolf MC FMJ.

I just about cried when I got the flier at 12:00. It came on about the 28th round or so. Believe it or not, it only increased the group by about 1/8", but still. It's outside the black.



i38.tinypic.com/2wdsoc5.jpg
Nice Shooting.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 11:50:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 11:52:55 AM EDT by criminalpoet]
With my SAM-7a1r with Russian optics and Norinco ammo I can completely blow out a 4" circle from the middle of the target with 2 30 round mags at 150 meters The boys at the range 2 weekends ago just looked and scratched their heads as I performed this so-called "impossible" thing with an AK. Dont get me wrong, I can still do better with my DPMS Panther Bull 24", but on the battlefield my AK is by far efficient enough and my #1 choice! And yes, there damn sure is a difference in quality and accuracy between a top of the line milled AK and a bottom of the barrel stamped receiver AK, and ammo makes a huge difference too!

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 1:59:58 PM EDT
+1 on the Yugo M70 Underfolder, it is the most accurate AK I have used also.


Link Posted: 7/20/2008 2:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dixiedawg:
I got this 30rd group at 100 yards yesterday, and it shocked the shit out of me.

I was firing a new setup: Polish PMKMS underfolder, with an Aimpoint Micro T1, two stage Red Star trigger, JTac brake, and the cleaning rod removed (I have heard that helps). Ammo was Wolf MC FMJ.

I just about cried when I got the flier at 12:00. It came on about the 28th round or so. Believe it or not, it only increased the group by about 1/8", but still. It's outside the black.



i38.tinypic.com/2wdsoc5.jpg




very nice groups...
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankdaTank:

Originally Posted By timb3:
If you want a more accurate AK, buy an AK74. The ones I've shot do groups around 2" at 100 yards, where the 7.62's I've shot do anywhere from 4" to 6" groups at the same range.

I guess the smaller projectiles don't cause as much barrel whip...

Other than that, out of at least 20 different 7.62x39 AK's I've shot over the years, only one of them ever held a tighter group. That one was a Yugo M70 underfolder believe it or not. It does 2" groups at 100 yards. Oddly enough, I currently own that one.


ak-74's are illegal in new york


??? Don't know where you got that info from. Just to clarify, I do not think the above poster was talking about an actual Russian Ak-74. He meant an AK type rifle in 5.45x39mm. Very legal, very accurate, very fun
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:07:03 PM EDT
As two others have said, Mojo or Krebs rear peeps help a lot. I have a Krebs and it made a huge difference. Even better is an Ulitmak and an Aimpoint. Using the Aimpoint I can almost make my milled Gordon Tech keep up with my AR. And as others have said, ammo is a big factor. Try some of the surplus Yugo from Samco. It is supposed to be very accurate and ballistic test it show to yaw in tissue (ballistic gellatin) within the first two inches of penetration. It is not as cheap as wolf but a lot cheaper than US 7.62X39.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:59:58 AM EDT


Here's my best 3 shot group @ 100yds so far. 2" using Golden Tiger sitting supported with my drobs custom romy build.


Link Posted: 7/21/2008 12:10:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
Change out the rear sight with a peep style site. Try a Krebs or a red Star arms. The rear sight sucks on these rifles. For me anyhow. WarDawg


+1

This will help.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 1:06:15 PM EDT
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