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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/13/2006 7:12:02 PM EDT
I tried stripping my polish handgurds and the oil stain that they use doen't want to leave. I've used bix, bleach and sanding multiple times but it still remains to a large degree. Now the Romy came out white as a bone using the same technique.

Trying to go for a blond look but I might say screw it and leave it dark.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:32:37 PM EDT
i just read an article in shotgun newsabout using oven cleaner to leachoil old oil. its worth a try.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:16:46 PM EDT by skywarp989]
Despite what Shotgun News says, oven cleaner is NOT worth a try. It will damage the wood. Repeat after me:

Oven Cleaner is for ovens, not for riflestocks.

hatIf the wood is actually stained, try a wood stripping product, either the gel type or the aeresol type. Follow the directions on the can.
If all else fails, try an actual wood-bleaching product. If that doesn't do it, you might be out of luck.

There are hundreds of specially-made woodworking products out there for stripping, cleaning, coloring, and lightening wood. They work. Try them!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:30:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:36:00 PM EDT by tapeo1]

Originally Posted By skywarp989:
If that doesn't do it, you might be out of luck.



And if you're out of luck, then there's no risk in trying out the oven cleaner. While I have never used oven cleaner to remove the oil in the wood, I know that several people have and I've yet to hear a story of the wood fibers breaking down because of it. I'm not saying that it can't or won't... just saying that I've never heard anyone having a problem with it.

Lakemoor, you might try sending Z_Recto an email about cleaning up the wood as he is the master of refinishing AK wood and could probably offer some help.

ETA: I've also heard that some people have had good success with Purple Power degreaser.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:44:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tapeo1:

Originally Posted By skywarp989:
If that doesn't do it, you might be out of luck.



And if you're out of luck, then there's no risk in trying out the oven cleaner. While I have never used oven cleaner to remove the oil in the wood, I know that several people have and I've yet to hear a story of the wood fibers breaking down because of it. I'm not saying that it can't or won't... just saying that I've never heard anyone having a problem with it.

Lakemoor, you might try sending Z_Recto an email about cleaning up the wood as he is the master of refinishing AK wood and could probably offer some help.

ETA: I've also heard that some people have had good success with Purple Power degreaser.



No risk, other than possibly ending up with a greenish piece of driftwood. hereBut who knows what it's doing to the wood under those shiny new finishes? Who knows what it will look like in ten years? I've heard of stocks turning a sickly green or grey after being cleaned with oven cleaner. It's not going to melt the wood like the Wicked Witch of the West, but the fact remains that it soaks in and is made to dissolve stuff like wood. (If you can't tell, this is one of my personal crusades. I happen to refinish/restore old furniture as a side hobby. I hate to see a riflestock mistreated. hy.gif)

Oven cleaner can't do anything that hasn't already been thought of by generations of woodworkers. I can almost garauntee that if Lakemoor tries all the methods I mentioned in my post, something will work. hug.gif

P.S. I've heard the same thing about Purple Power. Too harsh for me personally, but better than EZ Off.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 2:42:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 3:01:16 AM EDT by stargazer111]
I had an SKS upper handguard that was cosmo soaked and even 3 runs through the dishwaser would not get it all out. I borrowed a steam cleaner from a friend and it took some time but I got that cosmo ut of there using that. I would hold the steam on the end of the handguard and let it sit there for 15-20 seconds then take it away and wipe it off with a clean paper towel. It wiped away a yellowish colored thick oil. It took quite some time to do but it got it out of there safely with only minimum damage to the wood.

I have read where Home Depot sells a small hand held steamer that has a steam "spout" that does very well for these oil/cosmo soaked stocks. Supposedly around $40 or so. Just a thought for ya.


EDIT: Here's a link to a small steamer that would work just fine for our cleaning needs.

Small steam cleaner
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:37:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skywarp989:
Despite what Shotgun News says, oven cleaner is NOT worth a try. It will damage the wood. Repeat after me:

Oven Cleaner is for ovens, not for riflestocks.

It is designed to dissolve organic compounds. Wood is an organic compound.



If you look you will see most paint strippers and oven cleaners contain Potassium Hydroxide....



Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:43:03 AM EDT
I'll try the dishwasher then steam method. I got a bunch of simple green. Is this comparable to purple power?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:10:52 AM EDT
I think simple green is actually better...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:19:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mykrowyre:

Originally Posted By skywarp989:
Despite what Shotgun News says, oven cleaner is NOT worth a try. It will damage the wood. Repeat after me:

Oven Cleaner is for ovens, not for riflestocks.

hr


If you look you will see most paint strippers and oven cleaners contain Potassium Hydroxide....






Potassium Hydroxide is lye. Lye is used for everthing from drain-o making soap to lutefisk to hominy grits.
But that doesn't mean that oven cleaner is safe to eat, now does it? he
All I'm saying is, if oven cleaner were safe to use on wood, why don't woodworkers use it? Why use it when there are better, safer, more correct and healthy ways to get the oil out of wood?

I realize that this is an AK handguard and not Hitler's personal Drilling rifle we're talking about here. You don't stand to lose much and it'll probably turn out just fine. But I've seen too many collectible rifles ruined by overzealous cleaning and a big part of the problem is this horrible notion (too pften perpetuated by SGN and the like) that there are these great shortcuts for cleaning wood -- like the dishwasher and oven cleaner.

You wouldn't use a sandblaster to clean the cosmoline off of the metal of your gun, right? It'd be too harsh. It's the same concept.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:32:54 AM EDT

ok, I follow, but it's not like we're talking about a piece of fine furniture...this is a battle rifle! Oven cleaner has been used by a large number of people on here and hasn't caused any problems. Yes it dissovles organic compounds. Oil is an organic compound.

Using a carriage bolt spun in a hand drill isn't the best way to crown a barrel either, but it still works great and it's a heck of a lot easier to do in your living room. Same applies to oven cleaner... use what ya got. It's an ak after all!
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:14:16 AM EDT
The reason oven cleaner works so well is it removes the grime and grease that's imbedded in the wood...something normal cleaners, to include paint stripper, can't do as well . That's because oven cleaners remove baked on food residue. Nobody and I mean NOBODY can grease up a wood stock like a Russian toting a 10 lb Mosin Nagant around during WW2. Oven cleaner is de rigeur in restoring these old oil wells and for good reason...it works.

TIP: heat the stock first in a 175 degree oven...it will help lift the grime to the surface and soften it.

HTH
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:01:16 PM EDT
Purple Power (Castrol) - probably about 3 to 4 times. Scrub the unit with a toothbrush while you use it. Dry about 1 day between applications (room temp - don't heat the wood).

This issue has been beaten to DEATH in the C&R forums - check there if there is any doubt.

Here is a MN stock "attacked" by caustic cleaners like PP... tell me it disolved.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:40:43 PM EDT
Okay, I won't keep fighting about it. hy.gif

I collect Mosin Nagants. That's my main focus when it comes to firearms. I have a room full of them, mostly Finn -- all in their original wood finish. The Soviets used shellac as a stock finish -- which is impervious to oil. Russian and Finn Mosin stocks are RARELY oil-soaked, save some that were imported from Albania a few years ago or the odd imported refurb. At least, of the nearly thirty Mosins that I've owned over the last couple years, only one (a well-worn and used 1945 M44) ever seeped oil while I was shooting it. I just wiped it away.
I think what you're seeing with the oven cleaner is simple wood bleaching effect. It appears to remove the "oil" but mostly it's just bleaching the hell out of the wood.
The really greasy wood comes on Yugo Mausers and SKSs and Czech Mausers. I have some SKSs and Mausers that I've done some harsh cleaning on. They came out fine and look good, but I've since learned that there are better ways to do it that leave them looking original. But that's my thing -- originality. I guess I'm letting that color my opinions here too.
I come from a couple C&R collector's forums... there is a very different atmosphere here regarding wood. There, it's "preserve and restore to authentic." Here, it's "quick and dirty, originality be damned." That's fine, these aren't collectible rifles and stocks are cheap. Mostly.
If you were to want to buy an original, vintage, Soviet AK47 stock, would you rather have one that someone PP'ed or EZ-Offed and then poly'ed, or one in its original shellac finish?

Trotsky: very attractive 91/30. But I must say that your namesake would roll over in his grave if he saw it! he
I have no doubt that the issue has been beaten to death again and again in the C&R forums here. But again the attitude here is very different when it comes to "collectible" and originality.

Go ahead and use oven cleaner and the dishwasher if you want. It's like an $8 handguard. But when you get a CMP WWII M1 Garand or a GI-bringback k98, I recommend using an actual woodworking method to get it looking like you want.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:53:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By skywarp989:
If you were to want to buy an original, vintage, Soviet AK47 stock, would you rather have one that someone PP'ed or EZ-Offed and then poly'ed, or one in its original shellac finish?



If I were to buy a vintage Soviet AK stockset that needed to be restored and/or refinished, I would send it off to Z_Recto and have him work his magic.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:27:45 PM EDT
I bought some wood bleach from lowes for the stock on my mosin nagant, it worked well, then I finished it with low gloss tung oil. I'm happy with it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:16:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 6:17:04 PM EDT by tapeo1]
skywarp989,

Do you have any pictures of stocks that you've preserved and restored to authentic?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:26:43 PM EDT

If I were to buy a vintage Soviet AK stockset that needed to be restored and/or refinished, I would send it off to Z_Recto and have him work his magic.

Who or what is Z_Recto
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uxo2:
If I were to buy a vintage Soviet AK stockset that needed to be restored and/or refinished, I would send it off to Z_Recto and have him work his magic.

Who or what is Z_Recto



He is the man when it comes to refinishing new wood to look like Russian shellac (secret recipe). He also restores original finishes. Also makes nice US wood pistol grips with the metal part. I bought 2 of them and they are awesome. Much better than the black pistol grips.

He hangs out a various gun sites if you are interested.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:36:37 PM EDT
Z_Recto is the master at recreating the original Soviet wood finish. Here's some of Z_Recto's work...

photobucket.com/albums/v43/cmepw/AK47/?start=all

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:35:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tapeo1:
skywarp989,

Do you have any pictures of stocks that you've preserved and restored to authentic?



Well, preserved and restored are two different things. h.gifPreservation is maintenence in the interest of keeping the rifle original. Restoration is when you try and bring the rifle back to being authentic.

I cleaned this Yugoslavian M48 with mineral spirits, heat, and time. (The way I would do it now.) When I got it the stock was nearly black. It is finished with a different brand of Tung Oil Finish that left a harder finish than I normally like, so I might redo at some point it in a more authentic finish (BLO).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/Yugo%20M48/67942c61.jpg

This is a Yugo M59 SKS. This one I just scrubbed down with mineral spirits and heated some of the oil out. (This was one GREASY stock!) I then rubbed in some oil (Behr's or BLO, I can't remember) and left it at that. It's not quite as red as it is in the picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/Yugoslavian%20M59%20SKS/IMG_0074.jpg

Finally here's a Czech 98/22 Mauser. This one was about black, too. Behr's TOF finish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/Czech%2098-22/b4f8cca2.jpg

None of those will win a beauty contest, but they don't scream "I've been refinished" either. Sandpaper never touched them. hat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/Rightside.jpg

Of course most of my favorite rifles haven't been refinished since they left their motherlands...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/1941%20Swiss%20K31/1d26c378.jpg

1943 SAKO Finnish M39
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/Sako001.jpg

Finnish Civil Guard SY M28 (SIG-barrelled, which I always thought was cool)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v29/skywarp989/Rifles/SY%20M28/OAL.jpg

Okay, sorry for the photo overload. have

Z_Recto's work looks amazing and just perfect for AK stocks. Anyone know if he uses oven cleaner? skywarp
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:49:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 7:49:36 AM EDT by uxo2]
..
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:49:10 AM EDT
Nice job on the those stocks skywarp. I do have a question for you though... since authenticity seems to be important for you and like I said, great job on the stocks, why did you assemble your Romanian AK with drive screws instead of rivets?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:46:34 AM EDT

why did you assemble your Romanian AK with drive screws instead of rivets?


Because I'm new to metalwork and it was something I could do without a lot of expense. AND, most importantly, -- I can always easily upgrade the build to rivets at a later time. I plan to get set up for rivet work this summer when I have more time and $$.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:09:58 PM EDT
Skywarp, doing rivets is actually much easier than a lot of people think and can be done with minimal tools. A pair of bolt cutters, a good vise and a pulley puller are all you really need.

I've got a unrelated question to ask you... do you know how much are Yugo mausers going for? I saw a nice one for sale for $375 but that seemed to be a little high to me.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:29:30 PM EDT
Mostly what I'm dreading is pulling and pressing the barrel. My "workshop" is pretty primitive for that kind of stuff.

There are a few different kinds of Yugo Mausers out there, but none of them are worth that much right now. What kind were you looking at? M48s and M24/47s are running about $150-$200 (for nice ones) and Yugo k98s are running about $200 I think. If you have a Dunham's near you their Mausers go on sale for $89 once in a while.

By the way, Lakemoor, how's your handguard coming?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 9:09:35 PM EDT by tapeo1]
You can pull the barrel with a pulley puller that you can buy at a automotive store for about $20. It makes pulling the barrel very easy. The hardest part about pulling a barrel is removing the barrel pin especially on some Romanian kits although, I've been able to remove 7 Romanian barrel pins with my 5" vise. Reinstalling the barrel can be done with a vise, a big hammer and some plexi glass to protect the muzzle.

As far as the Yugos mausers go, I think it was a k98 that I was looking at. It looked very similar to the german WWII mauser except the wood was typical yugo hardwood. I looked up some prices on them on gunbroker and yeah, $375 is waaaay to much as I suspected.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:23:28 PM EDT
"If I were to buy a vintage Soviet AK stockset that needed to be restored and/or refinished, I would send it off to Z_Recto and have him work his magic. "

Amen - but you are now talking about a different item :) VINTAGE wood....

The Mosin that you see that I posted cost me $67 US Dollars :) Guess what? I would take an entirely diffent track with a fine rare Finnish gun.

My point - adapt your practices to the reality of the current situation - SOME rifles should be entirely refinished. SOME should be "preserved". Don't get stuck on on one way railroad track.

Wanna see my Russian SKS? :)
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:38:31 PM EDT
I know what you're saying Trotsky. I do a complete refinish on Romanian stocks. The finish on those Romanian "G" stocks it pure crap IMHO. When you scrap it off, it looks like a thick plastic film. This thick plastic film is not something I care to restore.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:28:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By skywarp989:

By the way, Lakemoor, how's your handguard coming?



I got lot of good info but it's a bit to cold to work in the garage now. The strippers recommend at least 55 degrees and that isn't happening anytime soon. I got 2 babies at the house so I'm not doing it indoors.

Got to wait for a little warmer weather. Crazy thing was last week it was over 50 degees and now it's going to be in the 30's for a while. My in-laws got like 2 feet of snow last week in northwestern WI. I got to gunkote an AK as well but again it's too cold.
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