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Posted: 8/9/2004 10:26:47 AM EST
(posted this in troubleshooting, but no answers..)

I have a NHM-91 by Norinco. Have had issues with it for a long time & I'm finally getting around to fixing it.
It will fire first shot after charging with the bolt carrier no problem, next shot, just barely dimples the primer.
I first cleaned very thoroughly, changed the firing pin.. Just put a new hammer & hammer/trigger spring in it, but discovered the problem.
Broken disconnector & no disconnector spring!
So, I ordered the disconnector & spring & installed them. Looks good.. only problem is the disconnector still won't hold onto the hammer. If I have pressure on it, by holding all the way back on the trigger, I can hold the hammer w/ the disconnector, but as soon as I release the pressure, disconnector releases & the trigger hooks hold onto it.
I looked at the original hammer & found the disconnector notch is slightly larger on the original hammer, so put it back in. Still doesn't hold onto the hammer.. I also compared what was left of the original disconnector & it looks identical to the new one.

I'm out of ideas.. I still need to take it out & see how she runs, but don't have much hope, since the disconnector never holds the hammer. I don't see how it could get out of alignment so bad, the hammer & trigger pins would have to move..

Please Help!!

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 10:49:59 AM EST
I'm not sure why thatproblem exists but if I was in your position and could not figure out the problem with the disconnector, I'd make a call to either Tapco for the G2 FCG or Redstararms. Hopefully some one will chime in with the solution.
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 11:05:23 AM EST
Thanks KIN074,

I haven't checked into any of these parts. Any opinions on what works better between the 2?
I still don't want to spend more money on it, without a guaranteed fix.. Though the trigger groups look nice. I definitely don't want to put $85 into the RSA one & then find out I have the same issue.. I might do the G2 FCG though.. still, another $40 for parts that might fix it.. I dunno.

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll have to think about it..
Maybe it's time to get a new one..

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 11:08:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 11:13:12 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By heysoos:
(posted this in troubleshooting, but no answers..)

I have a NHM-91 by Norinco. Have had issues with it for a long time & I'm finally getting around to fixing it.
It will fire first shot after charging with the bolt carrier no problem, next shot, just barely dimples the primer.
I first cleaned very thoroughly, changed the firing pin.. Just put a new hammer & hammer/trigger spring in it, but discovered the problem.
Broken disconnector & no disconnector spring!
So, I ordered the disconnector & spring & installed them. Looks good.. only problem is the disconnector still won't hold onto the hammer. If I have pressure on it, by holding all the way back on the trigger, I can hold the hammer w/ the disconnector, but as soon as I release the pressure, disconnector releases & the trigger hooks hold onto it.
I looked at the original hammer & found the disconnector notch is slightly larger on the original hammer, so put it back in. Still doesn't hold onto the hammer.. I also compared what was left of the original disconnector & it looks identical to the new one.

I'm out of ideas.. I still need to take it out & see how she runs, but don't have much hope, since the disconnector never holds the hammer. I don't see how it could get out of alignment so bad, the hammer & trigger pins would have to move..

Please Help!!




The part I outlined in red... That sounds like everything is working as it's supposed to. You pull the trigger, while it's held to the rear the action cycles. As the action cycles the hammer is brought down and is held by the disconnector. Once you let off the trigger, the hammer falls from the disconnector to the primary sear which would be the hooks on the trigger. Maybe I'm missing something here

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the workings of the FCG, but the disconnector holds the hammer while the trigger is pulled so you don't get a FA effect or more probable, an out of battery firing... If you don't have the trigger pulled when you cock the hammer, the primary (ie, hooks on the trigger) will catch the hammer- the disconnector only comes into play when the trigger is pulled.


Sly
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 11:09:41 AM EST
If you want a chinese hammer trigger and disconnector I have a couple of them in a box somewhere around here
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 11:25:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

The part I outlined in red... That sounds like everything is working as it's supposed to. You pull the trigger, while it's held to the rear the action cycles. As the action cycles the hammer is brought down and is held by the disconnector. Once you let off the trigger, the hammer falls from the disconnector to the primary sear which would be the hooks on the trigger. Maybe I'm missing something here

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the workings of the FCG, but the disconnector holds the hammer while the trigger is pulled so you don't get a FA effect or more probable, an out of battery firing... If you don't have the trigger pulled when you cock the hammer, the primary (ie, hooks on the trigger) will catch the hammer- the disconnector only comes into play when the trigger is pulled.


Sly



Ok, well maybe I'm just slow.. I thought this had to be the cause of the light primer strike on any but the first round. I'll try it out again & hopefully it will work now. I really thought the disconnector would be engaged on each shot.. ? Well, anyway, I guess I just don't know what I'm talking about!
Thanks for the help!

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 11:51:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/10/2004 2:17:36 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Ok, well maybe I'm just slow.. I thought this had to be the cause of the light primer strike on any but the first round. I'll try it out again & hopefully it will work now. I really thought the disconnector would be engaged on each shot.. ? Well, anyway, I guess I just don't know what I'm talking about!
Thanks for the help!



Yes, the disconnector is engaged after every shot.

With your old FCG and your broken disconnector- you said you were getting light primer strikes and failure to fire.

After you manually cycled the bolt to ready to fire the first round, then fired it- when you pulled the trigger again did you hear a "CLICK" as the hammer hit the firing pin, or did you pull the trigger and although it moved all the way to the rear nothing happened?

I ask this becuase if the disconnector was broken and would not engage the hammer, the hammer would follow the bolt carrier as it chambered the round. In other words, the hammer bypasses the trigger and instead of being cocked goes immediately to the fired position... and this should* equate to a failure to fire because after the bolt locks up, the hammer is already in the fired position. Due to the hammer following the carrier- you would probably have a light primer strike showing. (That and also because the free floating firing pin will dimple the primer due to inertia)


Sly
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 12:37:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 12:39:49 PM EST by heysoos]
I think you hit it on the head.. I'm pretty sure I remember no click, that would make perfect sense if the hammer was already forward & just barely tapped the firing pin enough to dimple..

I think this must be it. It just didn't seem like it worked right when I function-tested it after replacing the disconnector. I'll have to get out there & try again! Wish I had a nice close range..

Thanks again Sly!



Edit: Thanks for the offer hondajohn, I've got some new parts already, that are supposed to be specific to the NHM-90/91. I appreciate it!
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 1:05:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/10/2004 2:18:43 PM EST by I-M-A-WMD]
Your welcome heysoos.

It's very easy to test the disconnector function without being at the range..As long as you have the weapon unloaded. (Safety first!)

All you need to to is to take off the top cover, remove the action spring, bolt and carrier.

Obviously you'll want to be careful to ensure you don't dry fire with the bolt removed which would allow the hammer to fly recklessly into the ejector or whack into the reinforcing rivet that would stop the hammer as it falls. (I'm picturing a stamped weapon and if it's anything like my 56S Norinco theres a rivet "bar" in front of the hammer which it would strike if allowed to fall)

So cock the hammer. (It will be held by the trigger hooks) Then put your thump on it to catch and keep the hammer from falling... Pull the trigger to the rear and then push down on the hammer until the disconnector engages and holds the hammer. Hold the hammer captive by keeping the trigger held back to the rear...

Release the trigger and the hammer should disengage from the disconnector and be caught by the hooks on the the trigger.

Once again apply thumb pressure to the hammer to ensure it doesn't whack the receiver, pull the trigger... it should disengage as if to travel forward to strike the firing pin. (But since the rifle is disassembled, it won't- so you kept the hammer from traveling forward and whacking the receiver- right?) I then repeat holding the trigger and pushing the hammer down until the disconnector engages and then releasing it from the disconnector via the trigger over and over to ensure it catches every time.

This is basically what you described in your first post, and as you described it- it sounds like it tests out ok.

If you know what you're doing and can do so in a safe manner, this can be replicated with an empty firearm while it is assembled by racking the bolt with the trigger pulled. Obviously this would need to be done in a safe area with no ammo and as I said, with an EMPTY weapon!

Sure hope everything is good to go for your next trip to the range.

Sly
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 2:38:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2004 2:45:49 PM EST by MPi-K]
This is just a thought:
I suspect the disconnector you purchased is for a select fire AK, this is why:

The NHM-91, and most other Chinese AK's have an extended selector stop. The "fire" position on these AK's, is the same as the "full auto" position in select fire rifles. A full auto disconnector in an NHM-91 would be held by the selector in the "fire" position, because there is no auto-sear present, after the first round is fired, the hammer follows the bolt into battery, producing the light indention you see.

Most of the "newer" produced AK's, ( Arsenal, SAR's, Saiga, AK builds that used the original selector stop, etc ) do not have the extended selector stop. The fire position on these AK's is the same as the "Semi" one on select fire models.
This is why a Full Auto trigger group (minus the auto-sear of course ) can be used in these AK's with no problem.

A way to fix this would be to grind off the "tail" of your full auto disconnector, or purchase one for a semi AK.

I can't seem to find a camparison photo of a Semi only, and full auto disconnector....

Good Luck

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:01:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:29:06 PM EST
Thanks Sly, yep, that's exactly what I tried, so hopefully it will work. You mean I hafta unload it first??

Thanks for all your help & thoughts on this!

MPi-K, yeah, I know which ones you're talking about.. Weird, when I ordered, they showed some for f-a & some for semi-auto, but they all had the little tail on the end. (the backside of the disc. -not toward the hammer) I was wondering about that.. So it sounds like you're saying the disconnector I have in there now won't function right unless I grind off the back end.. or replace with one w/o the "tail" on it.. crap.. well, now I have some ideas at least!

Thanks for your help MP!

Campybob, disconnector can pivot & catch the hammer when trigger is pulled. cool..
Yes, trigger hooks catch the hammer when disconnector releases the hammer. cool..
Yes, the selector when on safe will not allow the trigger to move. cool..

Once again, I can depend on you guys to answer my dumb questions, and point things out to me without making me feel like a complete moron! Thanks to all of you for all the great ideas & input!

Hope to get out this week to the range & see how it goes.

Link Posted: 8/9/2004 4:55:08 PM EST
You don't have to grind the whole "tail" off.... just about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch. As long as the "tail" is not held by the selector lever in the "fire" position. Most of the MAK-90 / NHM-91 Chinese disconnectors I have seen were just Full Auto ones with a little bit shaved off the tail....
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 10:03:23 AM EST
Thanks again MP!!

Link Posted: 8/22/2004 7:49:29 AM EST
Well, got out to shoot on Friday & my baby is running again!

Thanks for all of the help. Aparrently, I was just paranoid about the action. I apologize for asking a stupid question!

Thanks for all of the replies, I now know a lot more about AK's than before anyway.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 7:56:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 10:32:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

When I was in the service, one of the greatest NCOs I had the priveledge of reporting to (SFC Dokes, a huge man, who did not know the meaning of the word predjudism , or favoriteism, who was born wearing USGI issue jungle boots, seriously I don't hink he owned more than one civilian outfit), once told me the only stupid question is the one you don't ask, he told me this right after I asked him what I thought might be a stupid question.



Thanks, that makes me feel a little better..
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:58:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By heysoos:
Well, got out to shoot on Friday & my baby is running again!

Thanks for all of the help. Aparrently, I was just paranoid about the action. I apologize for asking a stupid question!

Thanks for all of the replies, I now know a lot more about AK's than before anyway.





Good gawd it took you long enough!

Sly
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 10:09:38 AM EST
Hey, once a week is cool with me..

I just took forever to start work on the thing....
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