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Posted: 7/12/2010 3:32:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2010 3:41:40 PM EDT by vecdran]
I know there are probably a dozen of these threads a month, but I would really appreciate some help figuring out 922r for my Mak90. I was recently gifted one by my father, and I'm looking to convert it to a pistol grip stock setup (wood or poly, haven't decided yet).

The problem I'm having is figuring out how many parts I actually need, or if I even fall under 922r at all. My gunsmith today told me that my gun us 922r exempt since it's an early 90's milled Mak90, and I've had a few other random people say this to me on a variety of different forums, but I can't seem to confirm this info anywhere else. It was manufactured in '93, judging by the serial.

Regardless of this issue, how many parts would I actually need if I do need to do it? I'm milled...so that's 4 total, right? Or is it 5? Or 18? Halp.

Link Posted: 7/12/2010 3:42:11 PM EDT
If you're going to leave it as is, then there's no need to get US parts. If you're going to change the stock to a regular AK stock, then you'll need to follow 922r. This should help you http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance Beautitful MAK by the way.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 3:54:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vecdran:
I know there are probably a dozen of these threads a month, but I would really appreciate some help figuring out 922r for my Mak90. I was recently gifted one by my father, and I'm looking to convert it to a pistol grip stock setup (wood or poly, haven't decided yet).

The problem I'm having is figuring out how many parts I actually need, or if I even fall under 922r at all. My gunsmith today told me that my gun us 922r exempt since it's an early 90's milled Mak90, and I've had a few other random people say this to me on a variety of different forums, but I can't seem to confirm this info anywhere else.

Regardless of this issue, how many parts would I actually need if I do need to do it? I'm milled...so that's 4 total, right? Or is it 5? Or 18? Halp.

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo71/vecdran/Guns/mak90-2.jpg


There is a list of 20 parts that make your rifle an unruly baby killing bullet hose.  For AKs, this count applies 16 parts to the stamped receiver, and 15 to milled receivers.  You are not allowed to have more than 10 imported parts on a 'non-sporting' weapon.  So to complete the parts count for a milled rifle, you need to replace 5 parts, 6 for a stamped receiver.  

The list of parts from 922r are:

Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forging or stampings
Barrels
Barrel extensions
Mounting blocks (trunions)
Muzzle attachments
Bolts
Bolt Carriers
Operating rods
Gas pistons
Trigger housings
Triggers
Hammers
Sears
Disconnectors
Buttstocks
Pistol grips
Forearm handguards
Magazine Bodies
Magazine Floorplates
Magazine Followers

Link Posted: 7/12/2010 4:13:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2010 4:14:48 PM EDT by Imaposer2]
Here, this should help.  Just read the instructions and fill out the form.  It allows you to play with different options and keeps a running tally for you so you can tell at a glance which configuration is compliant.  Keep in mind that the milled MAK's receiver and trunnion are actually milled as one part, so you kinda get a freebie compared to the stamped MAKs.

I think it is best to focus on how many foreign parts remain rather than focusing on how many US parts you add.

But to make it really simple, I'd replace the FCG with the Tapco G2 set (three parts) use an IWD buttstock since he is the only game in town for slant cut milled MAKs anyway, and the pistol grip of your choice.  That is really all yyou need to replace on your rifle.  If you decide to thread the muzzle just use a US made muzzle device and you're still GTG.  Easy, and relatively cheap.  You can do the whole thing in less than an hour, other than finishing the buttstock.  IWD furniture comes unfinished in case you didn't know.

Nice rifle, BTW.  You're sure to enjoy it once you get it set up the way you want.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 4:30:24 PM EDT
Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to do stock, pistol  grip, foregrip, piston, and mag followers. I like the stock trigger too much to muck about with it.

I was originally going to make it look classic, with IWD furniture and all that, but I'm starting to lean towards going uber-tacticool. Make a Magpul AK rip-off, sans the left-side charging handle. (Who knows, I may even eventually do that.) I'm starting to realize that I really won't be able to afford building the AR I want anytime soon, so I might as well build this AK to fill that role for now. I can always convert it back to wood furniture once I get my AR, and almost all of the accessories I'm buying for it I can move over.

Ultimak AK Scout Mount
Ultimak Forend Rail
Blackjack Recoil Buffer
Blackjack S.W.I.F.T. Safety Lever w/Bolt Hold
Ace Milled Receiver Stock Adapter
Ace Pig-Nose Stock Adapter Mount
Ace AR Grip Adapter
Magpul MIAD
Magpul Ladder Rail Panels
Magpul UBR Stock
Magpul MS2 Sling
Magpul AFG
Danger Close Low-Pro Executive Flashlight Mount
Aimpoint Micro H-1 Red Dot

I know somewhere, someplace, some AK purist is going to pee in my coffee, but meh.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 5:14:25 PM EDT
If you really want an AR, why not just buy an AR? You could sell that rifle to fund your endeavor. I'd get familar with the rifle first before you get too carried away with accesories.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 5:22:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ermac:
If you really want an AR, why not just buy an AR? You could sell that rifle to fund your endeavor. I'd get familar with the rifle first before you get too carried away with accesories.


+1

I have nothing against useful, practical additions to a weapon, and to each their own, but "accessories" just for the sake of accessorizing is just.... well... if you want an AR, just build an AR.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 5:44:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By Ermac:
If you really want an AR, why not just buy an AR? You could sell that rifle to fund your endeavor. I'd get familar with the rifle first before you get too carried away with accesories.


+1

I have nothing against useful, practical additions to a weapon, and to each their own, but "accessories" just for the sake of accessorizing is just.... well... if you want an AR, just build an AR.


This.

I personally don't like AK's with plastic on them. For me it's got to be wood on an AK. If you want to pimp one out get a WASR and do it to that. That MAK will looks sweet with a nice wood stock set on it and is too nice a rifle to make "tacticool" just for the sake of doing it.

Link Posted: 7/12/2010 5:48:37 PM EDT
Milled MAk-90......piece of cake. Swap out FCG for three compliance parts and swap out the buttstock, pistol grips for an Ironwood set and you're good to go. I have a Milled MAK that is being converted to an underfolder as we speak.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 6:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2010 9:49:21 PM EDT by Troubledjoe]
BTW...I hear ya on not wanting to switch out the FCG. The Chinese triggers are very nice. The tapco G2 is an acceptable replacement however, and an easy three compliance parts. It's one of the few things I would buy from Tapco. I have the G2 on my MAK and it is a very nice trigger.

Your gunsmith doesn't sound too informed by telling you a MAK is exempt from 922r. That kind of talk could potentially get you in trouble if you were to listen to it.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 6:30:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vecdran:
Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to do stock, pistol  grip, foregrip, piston, and mag followers. I like the stock trigger too much to muck about with it.

I was originally going to make it look classic, with IWD furniture and all that, but I'm starting to lean towards going uber-tacticool. Make a Magpul AK rip-off, sans the left-side charging handle. (Who knows, I may even eventually do that.) I'm starting to realize that I really won't be able to afford building the AR I want anytime soon, so I might as well build this AK to fill that role for now. I can always convert it back to wood furniture once I get my AR, and almost all of the accessories I'm buying for it I can move over.

Ultimak AK Scout Mount
Ultimak Forend Rail
Blackjack Recoil Buffer
Blackjack S.W.I.F.T. Safety Lever w/Bolt Hold
Ace Milled Receiver Stock Adapter
Ace Pig-Nose Stock Adapter Mount
Ace AR Grip Adapter
Magpul MIAD
Magpul Ladder Rail Panels
Magpul UBR Stock
Magpul MS2 Sling
Magpul AFG
Danger Close Low-Pro Executive Flashlight Mount
Aimpoint Micro H-1 Red Dot

I know somewhere, someplace, some AK purist is going to pee in my coffee, but meh.


Jeebus Tap-Dancing Christ, don't do that to that gun!
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 6:58:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
BTW...I hear ya on not wanting to switch out the FCG. The Chinese triggers are very nice. The tapco G2 is an acceptable replacement however, and an easy three compliance parts. It's one of the few things I would buy from Tapco. I have the G2 on my MAK and it is a very nice trigger.

You're gunsmith doesn't sound too informed by telling you a MAK is exempt from 922r. That kind of talk could potentially get you in trouble if you were to listen to it.


Correct on all counts.  

While I would prefer to keep the Chinese FCG in my guns I needed the three easy parts the Tapco FGC gives me.  While it is the only Tapco item I'll buy, they are pretty decent and I can't find much diference between them and the orginal, as far as trigger pull goes.  I do like the Chicom disco design better though.  I would rather change the FCG than the piston or monkey around with my very reliable milsurp mags.  It is too bad that you can't get the metal floor plates of the steel milsurp mags anymore though.  It is such a simple part that really has no detrimental effect on things when changed.  If I could have found them I would have bought a butt load of them and swapped them on all of my mags.  On some of my AKs this one little part would have given me much more flexibility and allowd me to keep the orginal FCG on at least one of my configurations.  I'm not too sold on the plastic followers though.

And yeah, your gunsmith needs to brush up on his firearms regs if he's going to be giving legal advice.  MAKs are one of the guns that 922(r) specifically applies to.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 8:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2010 8:59:10 PM EDT by vecdran]
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By Ermac:
If you really want an AR, why not just buy an AR? You could sell that rifle to fund your endeavor. I'd get familar with the rifle first before you get too carried away with accesories.


+1

I have nothing against useful, practical additions to a weapon, and to each their own, but "accessories" just for the sake of accessorizing is just.... well... if you want an AR, just build an AR.


Really? A reliable rail setup, better ergos and a solid stock. It's funny that if I said I was buying all this for an AR, people wouldn't bat an eye.

Originally Posted By Ermac:
If you really want an AR, why not just buy an AR? You could sell that rifle to fund your endeavor. I'd get familar with the rifle first before you get too carried away with accesories.


I don't think my father would be too happy if I turned around and sold the gun he just gifted me. I can't afford buying an AR and setting it up the way I want, so why not do it to the rifle I currently have? I most probably will just convert it back to a nice wood rifle eventually.

I also didn't mention that I'm not going hog wild with everything at once. I'm buying the rail setup and the accessories for that at a later date (including the optic). For now, I'm going to focus on getting the stock and grip setup on, and just slap some Choate synthetic foreguard stuff in the meantime.  With that, I spend a few hundred extra dollars later on some Ironwood furniture, pawn off the Ultimak rails, and transfer all the Magpul stuff to an AR.

Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
BTW...I hear ya on not wanting to switch out the FCG. The Chinese triggers are very nice. The tapco G2 is an acceptable replacement however, and an easy three compliance parts. It's one of the few things I would buy from Tapco. I have the G2 on my MAK and it is a very nice trigger.

You're gunsmith doesn't sound too informed by telling you a MAK is exempt from 922r. That kind of talk could potentially get you in trouble if you were to listen to it.


Correct on all counts.  

While I would prefer to keep the Chinese FCG in my guns I needed the three easy parts the Tapco FGC gives me.  While it is the only Tapco item I'll buy, they are pretty decent and I can't find much diference between them and the orginal, as far as trigger pull goes.  I do like the Chicom disco design better though.  I would rather change the FCG than the piston or monkey around with my very reliable milsurp mags.  It is too bad that you can't get the metal floor plates of the steel milsurp mags anymore though.  It is such a simple part that really has no detrimental effect on things when changed.  If I could have found them I would have bought a butt load of them and swapped them on all of my mags.  On some of my AKs this one little part would have given me much more flexibility and allowd me to keep the orginal FCG on at least one of my configurations.  I'm not too sold on the plastic followers though.

And yeah, your gunsmith needs to brush up on his firearms regs if he's going to be giving legal advice.  MAKs are one of the guns that 922(r) specifically applies to.


I hear what you are saying, but I'm not reading anything bad about the plastic followers, and a piston is a piston. Chromed steel to stainless steel, a hunk of metal that is lathed. I don't really see where that can go wrong.

As for my gunsmith...well, uh, yeah. Little miffed about that one. Certainly made me reconsider his expertise a bit.

Link Posted: 7/12/2010 8:57:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2010 9:11:02 AM EDT by Mak]
You need 4 US parts for a milled rifle without a threaded muzzle device, 5 compliance parts with a threaded barrel muzzle device.  An Ironwood buttstock and US pistol grip will give you two (2).  A US slant brake for a threaded muzzle counts as 1.  Best price part is a Tapco double hook G2 for less than $30.00 give you 3 US parts.
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 9:01:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2010 11:22:32 PM EDT by vecdran]
Are the original Russian brakes (slant/cylinder/etc.)  the best for the AK, or is it worth considering adapting a 7.62 AR brake, like an AAC Brakeout? (Does that even work? I don't see why not...caliber allow the bullet, I'm sure the thread pitch is very different though.)

I'm sort of a loss of what to go with. Slant brake, USGI style birdcage...there's dozens of options it seems.

Edit:
So...those of you with sensitive constitutions, look away now.












Link Posted: 7/13/2010 1:27:49 AM EDT
You put whatever you want on that rifle.. Pay no attention to the boo-birds.. You bought it, right?
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 3:44:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vecdran:
I'm sort of a loss of what to go with.


Perhaps that's because you've placed the cart before the horse.
The proper way to choose equipment is to determine what deficienies exist in the weapon (if any) and make modifications to correct those deficiencies. Since you're not aware of any deficiency (other than the lack of a muzzle device), you cannot make the decision in that manner.
I suggest that you get the muzzle device that's most pleasing to your eye.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 4:04:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
BTW...I hear ya on not wanting to switch out the FCG. The Chinese triggers are very nice. The tapco G2 is an acceptable replacement however, and an easy three compliance parts. It's one of the few things I would buy from Tapco. I have the G2 on my MAK and it is a very nice trigger.

You're gunsmith doesn't sound too informed by telling you a MAK is exempt from 922r. That kind of talk could potentially get you in trouble if you were to listen to it.


Correct on all counts.  

While I would prefer to keep the Chinese FCG in my guns I needed the three easy parts the Tapco FGC gives me.  While it is the only Tapco item I'll buy, they are pretty decent and I can't find much diference between them and the orginal, as far as trigger pull goes.  I do like the Chicom disco design better though.  I would rather change the FCG than the piston or monkey around with my very reliable milsurp mags.  It is too bad that you can't get the metal floor plates of the steel milsurp mags anymore though.  It is such a simple part that really has no detrimental effect on things when changed.  If I could have found them I would have bought a butt load of them and swapped them on all of my mags.  On some of my AKs this one little part would have given me much more flexibility and allowd me to keep the orginal FCG on at least one of my configurations.  I'm not too sold on the plastic followers though.

And yeah, your gunsmith needs to brush up on his firearms regs if he's going to be giving legal advice.  MAKs are one of the guns that 922(r) specifically applies to.


... but if you let him do the work, he's on the hook for it. 922(r) only applies to the assembly of the guns , not possession
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 4:14:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2010 4:17:33 AM EDT by Imaposer2]
Originally Posted By ANGST:

... but if you let him do the work, he's on the hook for it. 922(r) only applies to the assembly of the guns , not possession


While this may be technically correct, I'd rather not have to prove who did the modifications.  Since many people do their own de-banning conversions I prefer to not be in possession of a converted rifle unless it meets the imported parts restrictions set forth by 922(r).


If it were that simple I'd just build my rifle the way I wanted, then just tell everyone that a "guy" at a gun show did all of the mods for me while I waited.  Yeah, I had his card but I lost it.  No, sorry I can't remember is name, but he did really good work so if I run across him again I might let him do another.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 4:21:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2010 4:25:00 AM EDT by Bladeswitcher]
I understand that gun owners are law-abiding citizens and want to follow the letter of the law, but I suspect the BATF couldn't care less whether you use a USA stamped part or an identical foreign/original part on your own gun. The point of the law is prevent importation or manufacturing on a wide scale. Yes, I know a law is a law, but I think we as individuals overthink this a bit. Truth be told, your average citizen –– or even a cop for that matter –– sees the AK47 profile and thinks evil devil gun. The fact that  your piston is made in the USA versus China probably wouldn't soothe their fears too much. I'm not saying to ignore the law. I'm just saying . . .

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 4:26:37 AM EDT
Wow! I just found this handy kit that makes any AK type rifle 100 percent 922r compliant:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27360/Product/STEEL_LETTERS___FIGURES
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 8:24:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Wow! I just found this handy kit that makes any AK type rifle 100 percent 922r compliant:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27360/Product/STEEL_LETTERS___FIGURES


Lol. Good stuff.

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 9:14:22 AM EDT
Who sells that stock for a milled MAK-90?  

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 9:49:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mak:
Who sells that stock for a milled MAK-90?  

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo71/vecdran/Guns/Mak-Magpulled.jpg


Sure looks like one would have a hard time making that work with a milled MAK.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 9:53:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
I understand that gun owners are law-abiding citizens and want to follow the letter of the law, but I suspect the BATF couldn't care less whether you use a USA stamped part or an identical foreign/original part on your own gun. The point of the law is prevent importation or manufacturing on a wide scale. Yes, I know a law is a law, but I think we as individuals overthink this a bit. Truth be told, your average citizen –– or even a cop for that matter –– sees the AK47 profile and thinks evil devil gun. The fact that  your piston is made in the USA versus China probably wouldn't soothe their fears too much. I'm not saying to ignore the law. I'm just saying . . .



I see your point and agree. I doubt the AK police will be breaking down my door anytime soon. I just prefer to do my best to keep things legal simply for piece of mind. I think the ATF would more likely use 922r to go after a specific person in order to have an offense to charge, or to stack charges on someone.

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 10:17:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
Originally Posted By Mak:
Who sells that stock for a milled MAK-90?  



Sure looks like one would have a hard time making that work with a milled MAK.



Looks like he plans on cutting the tang off and installing an ACE adapter.

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=93_101_102&products_id=310&osCsid=0e1ce35fef545cacdbfc5072f18fd4b5

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 10:20:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mak:
Who sells that stock for a milled MAK-90?  

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo71/vecdran/Guns/Mak-Magpulled.jpg


I believe this has been discussed before.  Ace makes a mounting block for milled AKs and it will work on Chinese preban milled rifles but not the MAKs since they have the angle cut receiver.

AFAIK IWD is the only one currently offering a stock specifically for the angle cut milled MAKs.  Of course if you have access to a milling machine ti shouldn't be too difficult to make something similar to the Ace block with the correct angle to work on the MAK's receiver.  SHort of that I guess the only way would be to have the rear of the receiver welded back up to the original profile.

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 10:21:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2010 10:24:54 AM EDT by Imaposer2]
Oops, double tap.

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 10:56:20 AM EDT
Have you tried the Tapco G2 FCGs? I was reluctant to change out mine but i did and suggest you will not be able to tell the difference. If it were my rifle (I know it isn't- but just want to give you my .02) I would try to keep the wood original and change out the FCG to a Tapco G2 (obviously keep original and you can always try the other route later), add a US slant brake (is the barrel threaded- if not you can by a threading kit and alignment tool cheap and do it yourself), andone more US part.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 11:04:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By Mak:
Who sells that stock for a milled MAK-90?  

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo71/vecdran/Guns/Mak-Magpulled.jpg


I believe this has been discussed before.  Ace makes a mounting block for milled AKs and it will work on Chinese preban milled rifles but not the MAKs since they have the angle cut receiver.

AFAIK IWD is the only one currently offering a stock specifically for the angle cut milled MAKs.  Of course if you have access to a milling machine ti shouldn't be too difficult to make something similar to the Ace block with the correct angle to work on the MAK's receiver.  SHort of that I guess the only way would be to have the rear of the receiver welded back up to the original profile.



Damn...thanks for this info. Yet another one of those million small details that I missed. :(

I've got a couple of friends who do machining...I guess I could see what they could come up with. Maybe could even come up with a setup that won't require the removal of the tang, so I still have the option of returning to wood furniture.

Link Posted: 7/13/2010 11:52:05 AM EDT
Finding a stock for a Milled MAK is a pain in the ass. Ironwood stocks are about the only option I know of. That damn double angle cut! Nothing wrong with an Ironwood stock, but sounds like you have the ability to make other stocks work for you.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 1:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2010 1:32:26 PM EDT by vecdran]
Meh. Screw it. I was kind of drunk yesterday, and I'm realizing how nutty this plan is. I'm saving up for a BCM Recce-14 instead. Want an AR, buy an AR...

You all can rest easy. I'll put IWD furniture on it and call it a day.
Link Posted: 7/13/2010 1:30:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vecdran:
Meh. Screw it. I was kind of drunk yesterday, and I'm realizing how nutty this plan is. I'm saving up for a BCM Recce-14 instead. Want an AR, buy an AR...




That was kinda what I said...

AKs and ARs a different animals.  Both have their advantages, strengths, weaknesses, etc, but I don't think it really does either system justice to try to turn one into the other.  I like both for different reasons.

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 1:14:02 PM EDT
Sorry to bump my thread, but this question is pertinent.

Will getting my barrel threaded and putting a US comp on give me a "free" US part, or will it raise my minimum parts by one, thus canceling itself out?

At this point it's either do that, which would be the simpler fix, or just install a gas piston myself.

(Oh, and to continue to keep the AK purists chill considering my previous idea, IWD maple furniture is ordered. )
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:00:47 PM EDT
threading the muzzle end requires one additional US part somewhere in the rifle whether it be a US slant brake or some other US compliance part elsewhere in the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:10:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vecdran:
or will it raise my minimum parts by one, thus canceling itself out?
 


This ^

If you thread the muzzle you can use a US muzzle device without it affecting your compliance count, but ti doesn't gain you anything, unless of course you wanted the threaded muzzle anyway.

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