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Posted: 3/12/2005 1:06:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 1:12:42 PM EST
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:13:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:30:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:45:50 PM EST
Is it true that they ended in a hung jury before this ? There has been speculation that this man says he was innocent and feared being railroaded after some of the evidence was manipulated and suppressed to make things come out more favorable for the prosecution. Desperate Men do desperate things. Just wondering if this had any merit ?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:09:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



+1 My feelings exactly, I know some will argue that it could happen to a man which it could. All I know is that if I felt his hand on my pistol, I would have my hands around his neck and my knee crushing his balls so fast when he hit the ground there would no longer even be imprints of his greasy fingers on my pistol!!

"hey I have an idea sarge lets let 5 foot nothing, 130 pound jenny escort 200 pound 6'1 ex college football player Nichols to the courtroom"

sarge: "sure, but only lets give her a gun" " Oh and make sure she wears it in plane sight, that will discourage any escape attempt"

I like that they even had a woman FBI agent to lead him away after he had been caught. I can hear the feminist movement now "see we can do anything just as well as men can!!"
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:11:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By JCHammer:
Is it true that they ended in a hung jury before this ? There has been speculation that this man says he was innocent and feared being railroaded after some of the evidence was manipulated and suppressed to make things come out more favorable for the prosecution. Desperate Men do desperate things. Just wondering if this had any merit ?




um, no


the guy is a peice of shit and I hope he gets the gas chamber, who gives a shit about his past.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:19:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:20:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:25:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Templar:
I'm suprised he's still alive as it is.



I bet he would fall a couple times..........
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:48:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 6:50:28 PM EST by BillC]
From MSNBC
"'He was a bad dude'
Nick Pergine, who played football with Nichols at Kutztown, said Nichols’ massive physical presence and martial arts skills earned him a reputation as someone to be careful around.

“He was a bad dude,” Pergine said. “You didn’t mess with him.”

Jake Williams, who coached Nichols at Kutztown, compared Nichols’ physique with that of NFL star John Mobley, who also played at the university.

“He was a physical specimen like you wouldn’t believe,” Williams said."

So they have one female officer escort him, just after they found 2 shanks hidden inside his shoes?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:12:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By JCHammer:
Is it true that they ended in a hung jury before this? There has been speculation that this man says he was innocent and feared being railroaded after some of the evidence was manipulated and suppressed to make things come out more favorable for the prosecution. Desperate Men do desperate things. Just wondering if this had any merit ?



Maybe so, but why go on a murderous rampage then? That's an admission of guilt or extreme immaturity. The fact the first trial resulted in a hung jury sort of bugs me as well, and it'll probably be another week or so until we get the entire story of what went wrong. They did interview the accussed's alledged victim however, and by all means, it appears he brutally raped her and held her captive (which in my book, is grounds for execution or 30+ years of indentured servitude). I don't know what the DNA evidence said though, since so little has been reported about the actual rape case.

Regardless, he killed three innocent people who had absolutely nothing to do with his plight (I'll discount the judge from the grand total of 4 people killed). That within itself is sufficient to warrant immediate execution without trial in my book (or at least a trial that should last less than 2 days). The biggest losers of all will be the taxpayers in this case. They have to continue the present trial and then retry him on federal and state charges, which may take 2 years or more. This is going to be another huge court case like what's going on STILL for those two buggars who sniped people in Maryland 2.5 years ago. That's hardly justice. Instead, it's injustice and pure theft of the victims' and other citizens' properties by the state and those who work for the state.

themao
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:51:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



+1 and I'd be banned if I said what I really thought about what happened and the resultant circus

wganz

Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:52:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



+1 My feelings exactly, I know some will argue that it could happen to a man which it could. All I know is that if I felt his hand on my pistol, I would have my hands around his neck and my knee crushing his balls so fast when he hit the ground there would no longer even be imprints of his greasy fingers on my pistol!!

"hey I have an idea sarge lets let 5 foot nothing, 130 pound jenny escort 200 pound 6'1 ex college football player Nichols to the courtroom"

sarge: "sure, but only lets give her a gun" " Oh and make sure she wears it in plane sight, that will discourage any escape attempt"

I like that they even had a woman FBI agent to lead him away after he had been caught. I can hear the feminist movement now "see we can do anything just as well as men can!!"


And a female officer is worse than a 50+ year old 300+ lbs. out of shape fat bastard, how?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 6:22:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 6:23:16 AM EST by JaketheSnakeOO7]

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



+1 My feelings exactly, I know some will argue that it could happen to a man which it could. All I know is that if I felt his hand on my pistol, I would have my hands around his neck and my knee crushing his balls so fast when he hit the ground there would no longer even be imprints of his greasy fingers on my pistol!!

"hey I have an idea sarge lets let 5 foot nothing, 130 pound jenny escort 200 pound 6'1 ex college football player Nichols to the courtroom"

sarge: "sure, but only lets give her a gun" " Oh and make sure she wears it in plane sight, that will discourage any escape attempt"

I like that they even had a woman FBI agent to lead him away after he had been caught. I can hear the feminist movement now "see we can do anything just as well as men can!!"


And a female officer is worse than a 50+ year old 300+ lbs. out of shape fat bastard, how?


Well if I HAD to choose......yes. Who would you rather escape from??? Kinda of hard to get away when a 300 pound "fat bastard" has a hold of you.

But maybe it's just me who thinks that law enforcement officers should be in some kind of physical fighting shape to some degree as those in the military.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 6:22:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 6:24:57 AM EST by Blastech3]

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:

Originally Posted By Belloc:
"..he allegedly overpowered a court deputy Friday, took her gun and fatally shot three people..."
More people dead thanks to marxist/feminist egalitarian nonsense.



Very well put. It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



+1 My feelings exactly, I know some will argue that it could happen to a man which it could. All I know is that if I felt his hand on my pistol, I would have my hands around his neck and my knee crushing his balls so fast when he hit the ground there would no longer even be imprints of his greasy fingers on my pistol!!

"hey I have an idea sarge lets let 5 foot nothing, 130 pound jenny escort 200 pound 6'1 ex college football player Nichols to the courtroom"

sarge: "sure, but only lets give her a gun" " Oh and make sure she wears it in plane sight, that will discourage any escape attempt"

I like that they even had a woman FBI agent to lead him away after he had been caught. I can hear the feminist movement now "see we can do anything just as well as men can!!"


And a female officer is worse than a 50+ year old 300+ lbs. out of shape fat bastard, how?



Bottom line ozone.. She NEVER should of been left alone with that animal. AND with a pistol!! I saw on Fox News yesterday evening that the struggle between the female officer and the POS lasted about less than five minutes from what she said. He beat her ass up while she futilly attempted to struggle back.

WHERE THE HELL WAS HER FELLOW OFFICERS!!!!??? WHO WAS COVERING HER BACK!!!!??? I work in a NY State class A max prison and I have been doing this hard-core work for almost 16 years... I hate to break your bubble bro but NO FEMALE OFFICER BELONGS IN A CORRECTIONAL SETTING WITH MEN!!! Bottom line bro... no sense in arguing with a Corrections Officer that does that for a living. I have yet to meet a female officer that is worth a shit in a mens facility.. All they are good for is running consoles that control the gallery and cells..PERIOD. All they do is get assigned to cushy jobs that they have no right getting because of lack of seniority. they get all of the non inmate contact jobs..

As far as a fat 300 pound out-of-shape male officer goes, shame on that fat bastard for getting so far out of shape. He forgot where he works.

I was hired to do the same job as a female officer yet they cant strip-frisk inmates. they cant do cell extractions, they are not encouraged to take Special Housing Unit jobs ("the box") because the male officers will run them out by pure peer pressure because they cant do SQUAT in a box type setting!!! PERIOD!!!

Call it what you want but we corrections officers are tired of getting women officers shoved down our throats. At Sing Sing Correctional facility in Ossining NY they have a problem with female officers.... They take the job and end up screwing inmates. The gangs have thier Ho's take the job by lying and scamming thier way in so they can "service" the gang members... All they need is a clean record and a high school diploma.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 6:54:00 AM EST
Any way you stack it, He's dead................he will get death, spend probably 20 years on Death Row and die of old age, a shank to the back or get served "cocktails" during happy hour in the death chamber............I wouldnt want to be him come Judgement Day
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:06:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake007
Well if I HAD to choose......yes. Who would you rather escape from??? Kinda of hard to get away when a 300 pound "fat bastard" has a hold of you.

But maybe it's just me who thinks that law enforcement officers should be in some kind of physical fighting shape to some degree as those in the military.



Originally Posted By Blastech3:

Bottom line ozone.. She NEVER should of been left alone with that animal. AND with a pistol!! I saw on Fox News yesterday evening that the struggle between the female officer and the POS lasted about less than five minutes from what she said. He beat her ass up while she futilly attempted to struggle back.

WHERE THE HELL WAS HER FELLOW OFFICERS!!!!??? WHO WAS COVERING HER BACK!!!!??? I work in a NY State class A max prison and I have been doing this hard-core work for almost 16 years... I hate to break your bubble bro but NO FEMALE OFFICER BELONGS IN A CORRECTIONAL SETTING WITH MEN!!! Bottom line bro... no sense in arguing with a Corrections Officer that does that for a living. I have yet to meet a female officer that is worth a shit in a mens facility.. All they are good for is running consoles that control the gallery and cells..PERIOD. All they do is get assigned to cushy jobs that they have no right getting because of lack of seniority. they get all of the non inmate contact jobs..

As far as a fat 300 pound out-of-shape male officer goes, shame on that fat bastard for getting so far out of shape. He forgot where he works.

I was hired to do the same job as a female officer yet they cant strip-frisk inmates. they cant do cell extractions, they are not encouraged to take Special Housing Unit jobs ("the box") because the male officers will run them out by pure peer pressure because they cant do SQUAT in a box type setting!!! PERIOD!!!

Call it what you want but we corrections officers are tired of getting women officers shoved down our throats. At Sing Sing Correctional facility in Ossining NY they have a problem with female officers.... They take the job and end up screwing inmates. The gangs have thier Ho's take the job by lying and scamming thier way in so they can "service" the gang members... All they need is a
clean record and a high school diploma.



To me its an issue of improper training and improper procedure. Talk to any self-defense or martial arts instructor and they'll have at least one technique for a small person to subdue a larger, stronger person. It's the most basic of basics. If the inmate shouln't have been left alone with her, then he shouldn't have been left alone with anybody. EXCLAMATION POINT!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:06:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 10:13:49 AM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:01:34 AM EST
I'm wondering what kind of holster the deputy was using. I doubt that it was a double or triple retention holster. As an ex-LEO, I don't feel that any cop should be on duty alone. They should all have a partner. Shit can go south real quick and back up can take too long. Most of the time it's all over before additional help arrives. There should also be a minimum of 4 armed officers at court proceedings.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:14:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
My father spent his first six post Army Retirement as a corrections officer for the state of GA, this was not a case of poor procedure or training. This was a simple case of poor judgement. My pop would have not been in that situation.

What happened was a complacent officer who had become way to secure in her duties; started believing that her position made her the match of a massive dude who could have went toe to toe with a pair of green berets and had a good chance of winning.

This has nothing to do with females or overweight retirees. Thier are procedures for dealing with violent criminals in place that if they had been followed would have allowed Lavergne and Shirley to keep the prisoner secured and safe. But those procedures were not followed. No matter what a bad ass the CO is thier are prisoners who can whip thier ass, there is no such thing as a guard who can handle himself alnoe against a determined skillful escapee under all circumstances, and that is why there are regulations that prohibit a single officer from handling any prisoner, not just the dangerous ones.



Yeah this is what I was getting at. Some of the guys seem to be saying "don't send a woman to do a man's job," but I think the inmate would have done the same regardless of the officer's gender or physical build.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:26:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 11:31:56 AM EST by JaketheSnakeOO7]
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:38:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:46:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 11:47:16 AM EST by Templar]
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:55:41 AM EST
No blame here, just all prisoners defendants have to be watched, and officers must practice weapons retentions. If you go to any bighouse no LEO's or CO's are armed, the only ones armed are in the watchtowers and catwalks.....No prisoner will get access to an officer's weapon....
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:11:33 AM EST
Greeting,

Just to set the record strieght. The officer Hall is a 51 year old grandma, with a "Slight" build.

There was no guarenty that the prisoner could not of overpowered a man. I beleave that there are some jobs that men are better suited.

Soilders, Guards, Cops, Fireman. We live in a sociity that beleaves in equal opertunity, even if that is a opertunity to fail & get someone else killed in the process!

Spud47"Never confuse motion with action" Benjerman Franklin
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:43:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.


This is not at all what I'm saying. Yes, a better built guard would have stood a better chance, but in this case I think only marginally. I said nothing about movies, I'm talking basic Judo here. Not something to kick butt, just something to subdue the agressor until backup arrives. They're not going to send out an officer who doesn't know how to use a gun, so why should they send out an officer who can't fight hand-to-hand?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:07:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.



Big +1

Men and women are just built differently, men have adapted/evolved to be the warrior, to be able to physically attack/defend. Women do somethings better than men, men do some things better than women. Nothing suprising about that, it's just nature.



Amen brother!! +++1!! All that bullshit martial arts only works in movies and fantasy.. and if it does it works on a limited basis depending on the scenerio. You have to be viscious and cruel... You fight to win .. Street fighting techniques is what works the best for me. You cheat like a bastard! Crush his balls, gouge his fucking eyes out.. stick to the center line of the body and start with the most sensitive parts first. A good hand full of testicals squeezed untill they pop is always a GREAT starting point and has worked for me in numerous incidents involving violent inmates... You grab them babies and watch that fucker scream like a woman.. Takes the wind out of his sail in about a second. I dont give a rats ass how big the perp is... been there.. done that... THATS how I know.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:30:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.


This is not at all what I'm saying. Yes, a better built guard would have stood a better chance, but in this case I think only marginally. I said nothing about movies, I'm talking basic Judo here. Not something to kick butt, just something to subdue the agressor until backup arrives. They're not going to send out an officer who doesn't know how to use a gun, so why should they send out an officer who can't fight hand-to-hand?



Sorry I still don't see that 130 pound officer using some type of "judo" move to subdue that 200 pound muscled up ex football player don't over look the fact that this guy was nothing but muscle and she well if you've seen the pictures she is not the ideal example of the officer I would want to back me up in a fight.
Maybe she could have did that to another 130 pound officer but I don't see it in that case. Another aspect of this situation that I believe many people look over is the fact that he was indeed a college football player, only those who are in the best physical shape period make it in those leagues period. I guarantee that man was very fast!! He probably took her down in a instant, and disarmed her just as fast.
Reguardless of whatever "hand to hand" fighting techniques she was taught it still makeup for that huge gap and advantage that Nichols had over her phyically and weight wise and I'll even go so far as to say speed wise as well.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 8:42:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Blastech3:

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.



Big +1

Men and women are just built differently, men have adapted/evolved to be the warrior, to be able to physically attack/defend. Women do somethings better than men, men do some things better than women. Nothing suprising about that, it's just nature.



Amen brother!! +++1!! All that bullshit martial arts only works in movies and fantasy.. and if it does it works on a limited basis depending on the scenerio. You have to be viscious and cruel... You fight to win .. Street fighting techniques is what works the best for me. You cheat like a bastard! Crush his balls, gouge his fucking eyes out.. stick to the center line of the body and start with the most sensitive parts first. A good hand full of testicals squeezed untill they pop is always a GREAT starting point and has worked for me in numerous incidents involving violent inmates... You grab them babies and watch that fucker scream like a woman.. Takes the wind out of his sail in about a second. I dont give a rats ass how big the perp is... been there.. done that... THATS how I know.


Again, I said nothing about movies. A female office can't squash balls or gouge eyes?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:16:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.


This is not at all what I'm saying. Yes, a better built guard would have stood a better chance, but in this case I think only marginally. I said nothing about movies, I'm talking basic Judo here. Not something to kick butt, just something to subdue the agressor until backup arrives. They're not going to send out an officer who doesn't know how to use a gun, so why should they send out an officer who can't fight hand-to-hand?



Sorry I still don't see that 130 pound officer using some type of "judo" move to subdue that 200 pound muscled up ex football player don't over look the fact that this guy was nothing but muscle and she well if you've seen the pictures she is not the ideal example of the officer I would want to back me up in a fight.
Maybe she could have did that to another 130 pound officer but I don't see it in that case. Another aspect of this situation that I believe many people look over is the fact that he was indeed a college football player, only those who are in the best physical shape period make it in those leagues period. I guarantee that man was very fast!! He probably took her down in a instant, and disarmed her just as fast.
Reguardless of whatever "hand to hand" fighting techniques she was taught it still makeup for that huge gap and advantage that Nichols had over her phyically and weight wise and I'll even go so far as to say speed wise as well.


Do you even know what Judo is? It's a fancy way of saying "tripping people." A 130 lb person can't trip a 200 lb person, huh? An ex-football player player can't be pinned to the ground by 130 lbs pushing on their throat?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:17:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 9:46:50 AM EST by JaketheSnakeOO7]
Maybe you should be teaching this top level "triping" defense class to officer so it doesn't happen again
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 10:01:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By Blastech3:

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnakeOO7:
So let me get this straight you still feel that even a small petite woman should have been responsible for a guy who is an very fit ex college football player (so much so his old coach braged about him being the perfect example of what a physically fit football player should be). It's not about " a woman doing a man's job" it's about COMMON SENSE!!!!. Get a big strong guy or two to watch after the imate who is a big strong guy himself.

When we argued this in my world Civ class every woman in the class said they believed that a woman can do anything a man can do ( which they can to a cetain extent, woman excell at some things and not at others). When we read a reports of standards being lowered in fields like the military and firefighters: examples like men had to run the mile in this time women in this time. I asked the question would you rather have a male firemen go up stairs and get your children from the burning building or a woman knowing that the standards may have been lowered to let more women into the position, most of the women in my class had children and each one wanted a man to go get thier babies. Men just excell in physical activites, fighting ie self defense is one of these things.

Some of you people need to quit watching jackie chan movies, I don't care what ninja style crouching tiger hidden monkey technique your local dojo teaches. Cause if you take the time to watch something like real ultmate fighting you can see how these "karate" types do when a much larger and stonger fighter closes the gap between them, grabs ahold of them, pins them to the ground and beats the shit out of them. Happens everytime. Now if you were to pair two people equal to each other in size, weight, muscle, and speed then yes I would say martial arts would help. But still... That stuff rarely works in real life unless you have grown up your enitre training and done nothing but fight, a weekend martial arts class doesn't help much.

Besides I thought that you guys knew he/she who controls the gun controls the fight, once she lost that gun it was all over.
Well... we will se some changes at least in the way prisoners are transported at the vary least.
But just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt.



Big +1

Men and women are just built differently, men have adapted/evolved to be the warrior, to be able to physically attack/defend. Women do somethings better than men, men do some things better than women. Nothing suprising about that, it's just nature.



Amen brother!! +++1!! All that bullshit martial arts only works in movies and fantasy.. and if it does it works on a limited basis depending on the scenerio. You have to be viscious and cruel... You fight to win .. Street fighting techniques is what works the best for me. You cheat like a bastard! Crush his balls, gouge his fucking eyes out.. stick to the center line of the body and start with the most sensitive parts first. A good hand full of testicals squeezed untill they pop is always a GREAT starting point and has worked for me in numerous incidents involving violent inmates... You grab them babies and watch that fucker scream like a woman.. Takes the wind out of his sail in about a second. I dont give a rats ass how big the perp is... been there.. done that... THATS how I know.


Again, I said nothing about movies. A female office can't squash balls or gouge eyes?



I have YET to meet a female officer or any woman for that matter that can be as vicious in hand-to-hand as a male officer. I have yet to see the proof. In all of my 16 years in corrections working in a class A max prison... I am still waiting to meet the female officer that has yet to impress me with her viciousness and true grit to get the job done... I wish I could state otherwise but I am still waiting.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 10:18:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:07:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 11:17:39 AM EST by JaketheSnakeOO7]

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Sounds like alot of people are missing the point of this incident. It serves as a reminder that the worst nightmare of (I would assume even worse than running out of donuts or the Krispie Kreme shutting down) of every law enforcement officer in the world, a natural born predator with the skills and talent of a prefessional warrior attatcking them.

As a rule unarmed comabt training should be something that every officer of every type gets, especially those who deal with prisoners and convicts. However in this case that type of training would have been worthless because he had been practicing those same techniques for a very long time (and appearantly he was good at it, not like most of the keyboard commandos here who imgaine that they are, when they actually look like Napolean Dynamite busting thier moves). This guy was not only prepared for unarmed combat but he was obviously proficient with a handgun as well. I don't think that there are many officers anywhere who would have been more than an even match for this guy, much less good enough to put a whoopin on him.

I also think that there are a few folks here who are convinced that this guy was a typical gang banger thug, and that is wrong. This guy not only had all of the physical attributes that have been discussed to death, but he was smart, both street smart and well educated, and that is what makes him very dangerous. He didn't manage to evade the man hunt that was conducted for all of that time by being stupid. With this guy the threat of his physical prowess was multiplied by his intelligence and cunning.



I do not think this man was a gang banger for one, haven't met too many college athletes that were for that matter. That's what I have been trying to say colleges don't just pick up thugs off the street and put them in pads. These men are usually well educated, come from decent families, and have dreams and goals themselves. I do believe he was a gangbanger by any means. Take that into account with the possiblity that he has undergone numerous workouts meant to improve his phsyical strength, speed, and reaction time you have an inmate who is very capable of escape.

Oh and by the way were on a website much less members of one where people talk about assualt rifles I'd say that qualifies everybody as "keyboard commandos" around here.
Keyboard Commando since Oct 2004 "Damn Proud Too!!"
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:20:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 12:20:43 PM EST by BushyM4]
BTW, this morning FOX News reported that there was video of the retention failure, but no one monitoring the camera. Thanks for putting my Fulton property taxes to good use.

On another note, Friday night was guy's night out to see the opening of Gunner Palace here in Atlanta. The perp was still on the run. A quick check at the dinner table? Yes, everyone was packing.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 12:43:41 PM EST
too much credit is given to this pos! Im not sure how much "skill" was used in his actions, he's a big guy, shoulda, coulda and woulda doesn't change what he did, but lets hope it changes the way things are done in the future. And btw, alot of POS are college educated but as we know common sense isn't taught from a text book, God bless the family of the victims.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 3:25:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By BillC:
too much credit is given to this pos! Im not sure how much "skill" was used in his actions, he's a big guy, shoulda, coulda and woulda doesn't change what he did, but lets hope it changes the way things are done in the future. And btw, alot of POS are college educated but as we know common sense isn't taught from a text book, God bless the family of the victims.



And this post isssssss..............................DEAD!
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:03:55 PM EST
Well, I'm hardly qualified to teach self defense, seeing as how I've never taken a class in my life. The only reason none of you have ever seen a lady co as "vicious" as a man is because none of my female relatives are co's.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:58:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By ozone_00:
Well, I'm hardly qualified to teach self defense, seeing as how I've never taken a class in my life. The only reason none of you have ever seen a lady co as "vicious" as a man is because none of my female relatives are co's.



THATS funny!

I have a cousin thats female and let me tell ya bro...I would hate to be her husband!
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 10:14:25 PM EST
Yeah, she's good.

"I think I have an idea that would save money and lives: Have large men escort violent criminals. Admittedly, this approach would risk another wave of nausea and vomiting by female professors at Harvard. But there are also advantages to not pretending women are as strong as men, such as fewer dead people. Even a female math professor at Harvard should be able to run the numbers on this one."

www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20050317.shtml
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 4:07:30 AM EST
Hey Ganz; I hear exactly what you're not saying. You would not believe how many feel the same.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 6:02:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/17/2005 6:25:48 AM EST by Nasty_Nate]

Originally Posted By ozone_00:

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
My father spent his first six post Army Retirement as a corrections officer for the state of GA, this was not a case of poor procedure or training. This was a simple case of poor judgement. My pop would have not been in that situation.

What happened was a complacent officer who had become way to secure in her duties; started believing that her position made her the match of a massive dude who could have went toe to toe with a pair of green berets and had a good chance of winning.

This has nothing to do with females or overweight retirees. Thier are procedures for dealing with violent criminals in place that if they had been followed would have allowed Lavergne and Shirley to keep the prisoner secured and safe. But those procedures were not followed. No matter what a bad ass the CO is thier are prisoners who can whip thier ass, there is no such thing as a guard who can handle himself alnoe against a determined skillful escapee under all circumstances, and that is why there are regulations that prohibit a single officer from handling any prisoner, not just the dangerous ones.



Yeah this is what I was getting at. Some of the guys seem to be saying "don't send a woman to do a man's job," but I think the inmate would have done the same regardless of the officer's gender or physical build.



Hey, relax those guys are just doing what lots of feminists have been doing to us men for the past three decades or so ... putting down the opposite sex off of one or two examples. I think it is wrong either way ... people should be more balanced.

While we are on the subject Im 5'4" 150 lbs and people look at me funny (with the exception of actual police ive talked to) when I say I am considering becoming a police officer ... not so in the case of females who are my size and smaller they look at me like Ive lost my mind too. Dont say cause they are stronger because they are women and superior to us in every way! LOL! I have whooped many a larger guy and girl alike in the dojo and smartly contained a few guys and yes girls on the street. how

Just my 2cents dont take it badly but enjoy it ... we are not in total disagreement.
Okay Ill stop boring y'all. Back to the land of Buddah with me. LOL
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