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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/8/2004 4:49:36 AM EST
Could you describe it and what it does for your rifle?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:56:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:01:17 AM EST
Could it be done with polymer PSL handguards? Any benefit?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:06:58 AM EST
This would the unquestioned PINNICLE waste of money and time, IMO.

Mike
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:07:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:25:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 5:28:21 AM EST by Taipan]

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
This would the unquestioned PINNICLE waste of money and time, IMO.

Mike



Yeah I can see that you would think that about your run of the mill 16" AK but I'm refering to the PSL (Romak III). Its supposed to be more of an ranged weapon than the AKM. Please explain it to me, as I do not really understand the glass bedding process or function.


Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:47:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:22:25 AM EST
Ok I get it. Basically works only on bolt rifles. Ok does anyone have any other suggestions for really improving accuracy in PSLs? I was thinking of RSA FCG, handloaded ammo, and cryo. Anything else? Comments on my three ideas?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:25:43 AM EST
as fat as accuracy goes the rifle sucks dude. if you want accuracy get an accurate rifle.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:36:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
as fat as accuracy goes the rifle sucks dude. if you want accuracy get an accurate rifle.



I didn't title this thread "Looking for a super accurate rifle", I'm seeing if there are ways to improve the PSL. I've read of some of these improvements (the ones I listed) and I think the rifle gets a bad rap. I know its not sub MOA rifle but there are guys out there pinging targets out at very respectable ranges with these. Flame someone else's thread.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:44:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 6:44:39 AM EST by Ripcode]
Taipan,

Did you swap out the stock trigger group for an RSA trigger group yet? That is another thing that could help you to tweak it out.



Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:46:31 AM EST
Yes glass bedding will improve an AKs accuracy, even a standard AK. I would get ahold of Krebs custom and dissscuss this. Also you may want to talk to Mark about semi freefloating the barrel which is how he sets up the KTR-03S.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:50:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:52:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ripcode:
Taipan,

Did you swap out the stock trigger group for an RSA trigger group yet? That is another thing that could help you to tweak it out.



No, I'm planning this as a build from a parts kit and want to build it right from the get go. If I do it it won't be a typical looking PSL but it may take me months to do it.

[Yes glass bedding will improve an AKs accuracy, even a standard AK. I would get ahold of Krebs custom and dissscuss this. Also you may want to talk to Mark about semi freefloating the barrel which is how he sets up the KTR-03S/quote]

I'll give him a call and see if he'll share with me, thanks for the tip.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:55:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By hk940:
as fat as accuracy goes the rifle sucks dude. if you want accuracy get an accurate rifle.



It is a very accurate rifle. I have rarely heard of inaccurate Romak III's. Considering the price of ammo, it is a great deal.

I am not sure glass bedding would be worth the trouble. Campy recomends that you have the barrel frozen.

I have never been able to get the reason why out of him.



I'm sure he's refering to Cryo, which from my limited understanding changes the dynamics of the metal and will not only improve accuracy but lengthen the life also. There was a thread about it not too long ago in the GD.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:55:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Taipan:

Originally Posted By hk940:
as fat as accuracy goes the rifle sucks dude. if you want accuracy get an accurate rifle.



I didn't title this thread "Looking for a super accurate rifle", I'm seeing if there are ways to improve the PSL. I've read of some of these improvements (the ones I listed) and I think the rifle gets a bad rap. I know its not sub MOA rifle but there are guys out there pinging targets out at very respectable ranges with these. Flame someone else's thread.




First thing I would do would be to make sure you're using the right setup to get accuracy. Support the rifle from under the receiver. Get the breathing down. Good trigger and trigger control etc.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:17:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 7:18:54 AM EST by Taipan]
LOL I just went through the GD page by page looking for that Cryo information and it was AKSU-74 that posted it in the first place. www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=64093
Still sounds good to me.

LDH I hear what you're saying, I do need to get to the range more and practice.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:19:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 7:20:51 AM EST by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By Taipan:
Ok I get it. Basically works only on bolt rifles. Ok does anyone have any other suggestions for really improving accuracy in PSLs? I was thinking of RSA FCG, handloaded ammo, and cryo. Anything else? Comments on my three ideas?



Good, now ya understand my comments, (I knew what a PSL was btw)..... as to your other ideas.

There not much better than the first one, a waste of money.

Follow the advise above and pick a more accurate rifle to throw your money away on, I mean heck, "ya can polish a turd but then all ya got is a polished turd", right??

oh yea, Ya can't cryo a chrome lined barrel, (as I have had this done to barrels before and chrome is a no-go).

Mike
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 7:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By Taipan:
Ok I get it. Basically works only on bolt rifles. Ok does anyone have any other suggestions for really improving accuracy in PSLs? I was thinking of RSA FCG, handloaded ammo, and cryo. Anything else? Comments on my three ideas?



oh yea, Ya can't cryo a chrome lined barrel, (as I have had this done to barrels before and chrome is a no-go).

Mike



Anybody else want to chime in on this? I talked to Cryocon and they said they do this process to chrome lined barrels all the time and it is a go. Now I realize that he may just want to sell his services but I don't have a reason to disbelieve him yet. Mike seems to think that PSL are just junk and I know this to not be simply true. I think he sees it too black and white.
Some quotes from some other site and forums:
"Despite an early poor showing when first introduced in the US. the PSL is a fine weapon and capable of sub MOA accuracy. The key to these rifles is the proper ammunition."

"May 11, 2002
Ok, here's my revised range report: THIS STUFF RULES!
Ammo: Wolf's New 7.62x54R 148GR Advertised Non-Corrosive
Rifle: Romanian PSL, stock 4x PSO-1 scope

I went to the range again and followed several people's advice and let my rifle sit and cool after firing each string. The rifle shot much better and I turned in five sub MOA groups today before the wind picked up. Three sets at 200 yards, and two sets at 300 yards all with resulting groups under Minute Of Angle. So this ammo is much more accurate than I previously reported. When I did my part it was amazing! "

"Tomac
Major Member
Short Version: With my Romak-3 using surplus Russian silvertip ammo I could consistently hit an 18" gong at 600yds. The trigger needs work but can be smoothed to a crisp 4-lb break. Recoil is suprisingly mild for so powerful a cartridge. The thin barrel tends to heat causing groups to open up. The rangefinder & elevation turret on scope are *very* easy to use. For the same price you could buy a budget .308 boltgun that would outshoot the Romak-3 but I don't think you're going to find a semi-auto w/scope that will shoot as well.
Tomac "



Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:06:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:11:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 8:41:16 AM EST by AKSU-74]
You can't lose with Cryocon, they have a 30 day money back guarantee on their Cryo-accurising service.
From Croyocon's web site.

Is the process guaranteed?

Yes. If you are not satisfied with the results, just let us know within 30 days of your receipt of the barrel and Cryo-Accurizing will refund 100 percent of your money. Guaranteed.

Also I know of several people who have had chrome lined barrels cryoed and there was no problem, so first off I think it's important to ask a couple of questions. First mr_wilson what company cryoed your barrel, and specifically what damage was done to the chrome lining. Was it Cryocon that cryoed your barrel or did you have the process done by another company. Keep in mind Cryocon utilizes a three stage (Tri-lax) cryo process, the third phase of the Tri-lax process which is called a Post-Temper, which (from their site)

Further relieves residual stresses
* Tempers newly formed martensite
* Reduces brittleness
Cryocon is the only company that dose the three stage process and if all three stages are not done you could potentially damage certain barrels such as a chrome lined one. Do not be fooled by some of these companies, I spoke with a company that at one time was affiliated with Cryocon and utilized their Tri-lax process under license from Cryocon. They are no longer affiliated with Cryocon and as such no longer use the Tri-lax process. I spoke with someone at the company and was told that "our process is so good that we don't need to do the three step process) Prove it, I want to read well documented and researched articles preferably by third parties on your process, second if your process is superior then why don't you offer a 30 day money back guarantee? Point is do your research before you go into any thing. Taipan as you stated when you did your part your accuracy was very good, this coincides with what I read recently which some one stated that allot of the time when a person dose not get good accuracy they think it's the rifle when it's actually them.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:14:21 AM EST
Taipan,

There is nothing to be gained by bedding the handguard.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:22:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:26:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:
First mr_wilson what company cryoed your barrel, and specifically what damage was done to the chrome lining. Was it Cryocon that cryoed your barrel or did you have the process done by another company.



Sorry I failed to respond guess this slipped away, but searching for another thread I ran across this again......

First I never heard of Cryocon....

I first learn of the cryo process thru SOF magazine and at that time the guys doing it here in Houston (where Peter Kokalis had the subject rifle done) was called BlackStar. They were considered by most to be the best at this process and I had a Ruger M77VT stainless steel 308 barrel electro-polished and cryo'd. The results were impressive and I wanted some of my other barrels done a copule which were "chrome-lined". They (BlackStar) told me that chrome lined barrels were a NO-GO for their process. This is what I based my statement on as they were the experts at that time. As mentioned above never heard of your company.....

Mike
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:10:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:
First mr_wilson what company cryoed your barrel, and specifically what damage was done to the chrome lining. Was it Cryocon that cryoed your barrel or did you have the process done by another company.



Sorry I failed to respond guess this slipped away, but searching for another thread I ran across this again......

First I never heard of Cryocon....

I first learn of the cryo process thru SOF magazine and at that time the guys doing it here in Houston (where Peter Kokalis had the subject rifle done) was called BlackStar. They were considered by most to be the best at this process and I had a Ruger M77VT stainless steel 308 barrel electro-polished and cryo'd. The results were impressive and I wanted some of my other barrels done a copule which were "chrome-lined". They (BlackStar) told me that chrome lined barrels were a NO-GO for their process. This is what I based my statement on as they were the experts at that time. As mentioned above never heard of your company.....

Mike



Mike,
Perhaps it's just a matter of technological evolution that chrome lined barrels can be done, you mentioned "at that Time" but did not say how long ago that was. Also it could simply be that their process
is not designed for use with chrome lined barrels. Eighther way if a cryo company says that it dose not damage a chrome lined barrel and it turns out it dose by this point it would be well documented and anybody who had a bad experience would post it on one board or another, as well as that company would not be around if they had to eat up costs in repalement barrels/fire arms or got sued. Of course crycon would be able to give you a complete explanation on the process if you are still thinking about haveing your chrome lined barreled rifles cry'od, then I'd say contact cryocon and spend some time talking with them as they can explain it far better than I, thanks for responding back and for the info you provided.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:28:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 2:01:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 2:01:59 PM EST by rocko]
I don't think anyone is saying that the PSL's are "junk", but rather that you'll spend far more money trying to "accurize" your PSL with probably not nearly as good results in the end as choosing a platform that was designed more with precision in mind. The commies took a different approach to their "sniper" rifles - I believe the purpose was to extend the range of the infantry, but that is more due to the package as a whole - the optics and more powerful cartidge, than any increased inherent accuracy. If it could consistently engage man-sized targets at 400+ meters, they were probably happy. However, that is not really "accurate" to western standards.

If you don't care about the monetary expenditure, and just want something different, that is one thing. I just think people are giving you a heads up that your expectations may not quite be in line with reality, and if results are what you are after, it isn't the most efficient way to spend your money.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:39:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
wth is eletro-polished? i haven't got a clue.



Okay here's the link: www.blackstar-barrels.com/

(BTW, back then was 1993 according to the receipt which I check'd last night)

FAQ exerpts:

Can you explain BlackStar's bore polishing process?

BlackStar's process is a patented, electrochemical bore
polishing procedure that improves a barrel's inherent accuracy,
anti-fouling potential, and cleanability. The process simultaneously
micro-polishes and deburrs the surface while electrochemically
micro-machining the bore dimensions. It is completely non-abrasive.

How does BlackStar's bore polishing reduce fouling?

Micro-burrs and other mechanically produced surface problems
--common to all other barrels-- are the major cause of fouling problems.
BlackStar virtually eliminates the bore surface characteristics that attract
metallic and powder fouling, thus dramatically reducing the rate and
degree of fouling accumulation.


Why is your polishing process more effective than lapping?

Most custom barrel makers hand-lap their barrels to improve them.
This has worked well, but it has not solved the problem fully.
Fundamentally, lapping tears the microscopic metal surface and
fails to remove all but the largest burrs on the bore surface. These
burrs are the reason why shooters feel they must "break in" even
a new custom barrel. In contrast, BlackStar's non-abrasive
polishing produces a microscopically ultra-slick surface with dramatically
less fouling potential. The bore surface is deburred and
the grain boundaries are sealed.



One thing I can say is the improvement to the stock Ruger barrel was more than worth the cost incurred, heck the clean-up effort or LACK of need for cleaning was a definate plus, but the barrel longevity advantage of cryoing was my principle reason for havin it done. Unfortunately the twist rate of the rifle turned out to be a limiting factor, (disallowing heavier weight bullets needed for long range) but out to 700 yards w/ Fed GM 168grn. SMKs, this older rifle was easily a 1/2 MOA stick.

Apology for the sidetrack, hope this is of some interest and help,
Mike

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:47:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
close up the headspace after having the bbl. short throated to reduce the lead.

for those with real money: start with a douglas air gage heavy pipe manson reamers.




Can you explain these to me Campy?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:47:59 AM EST
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