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Posted: 1/13/2006 10:17:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:00:23 AM EDT by Jeepcreep]
We all know about the outstanding reliability of the AK, but god, watch this video. Yes its the worst picture quality ever however you can make out whats happening in the video easily enough. I would like to see an AR function after all that abuse. Maybe someone would be willing to test it out on their AR? lol.

Fifth row down, first column. Video Title = AK-74M gave birth to the AK 100-series (MPEG, 422Kb)

club.guns.ru/eng/video.html

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:54:49 AM EDT
Cool!!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:03:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:51:07 PM EDT
Well soldiers drop their M16's all the time, and I've known a person who ran over his with a Humvee, the M1114 Uparmored that weighs a few thousand pounds more than the standard 998, and this wasn't on soft ground, it was on asphalt.

So the AK was designed to be used by clumsy oafs who can't hold onto their weapons? With the training of the fighters in Liberia, the ones that have shown up here more than a few times?

And now somebody is going to jump in with the story of the buried AK, and the stories they heard from their dad's, uncles, friend, who knew a coworker that was SF in Vietnam and his M16 jammed all the time, so he ditched it and used an AK right.

The M16 was made for professional soldiers, or professionally, well trained soldiers who would spend some time cleaning their weapons. The Soviet army seemed to be based on the idea that quantity has a quality all it's own, and spent less time in training the simple things.

An no, I'm not an AK basher, I have my cheap WASR, and would love to be able to afford a couple VEPR,s and Arsenals. I'm also an AR owner. I'm just tired of this constant drivel about which is better, and the stupid things that continue to be spouted. The AK always works the AR always jams. The AR is very accurate, the AK can't hit hte broad side of a barn.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:13:45 PM EDT
Perhaps you should check out another post i made in the optics section, my comment was that AR's are more reliable than you might think but AKs are more accurate than you might think.


Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
AR's are more reliable than you might think, but remember, AK's are more accurate than you might think.



My comments here were intended to poke fun at the high cost of an AR and the likely unwillingness of an AR owner to subject his weapon to that. I am fully aware of the ARs reputation, my best freind carried an M-4 durring his last tour with Seal Team 1 Charlie Platoon in Iraq. Their weapons are beat to shit, and yes, they do jam, yes, you do need to spend time cleaning them, but ultimately they do go bang with great regularity.

I would challenge you though to ask him which rifle he would rather carry, after having trained some ING troops and having had exposure to it, he vastly prefers the AK to his M-4, he cited an instance where for sevral weeks in a row they were experiancing random jams in multiple weapons where the cartridge would ride up on top of the bolt of an M4 durring extraction and cause the weapon to jam, this jam requires a set of needle nose pliars and 3 men to clear, obviously not something you want to deal with in a firefight. It got so bad that the entire platoon began to carry Leatherman tools in anticipation of this event. In this situation you could count on an AK to fire, thats about it. I am well aware of the merits and drawbacks of both weapons, i simply wanted to draw attention to the test shown in the video and not start a fight. I hope we can all be less sensitive in the future.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:23:33 PM EDT
The AK is still better!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:25:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 10:30:20 PM EDT by 762bodydropper]

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Well soldiers drop their M16's all the time, and I've known a person who ran over his with a Humvee, the M1114 Uparmored that weighs a few thousand pounds more than the standard 998, and this wasn't on soft ground, it was on asphalt.

So the AK was designed to be used by clumsy oafs who can't hold onto their weapons? With the training of the fighters in Liberia, the ones that have shown up here more than a few times?

And now somebody is going to jump in with the story of the buried AK, and the stories they heard from their dad's, uncles, friend, who knew a coworker that was SF in Vietnam and his M16 jammed all the time, so he ditched it and used an AK right.

The M16 was made for professional soldiers, or professionally, well trained soldiers who would spend some time cleaning their weapons. The Soviet army seemed to be based on the idea that quantity has a quality all it's own, and spent less time in training the simple things.

An no, I'm not an AK basher, I have my cheap WASR, and would love to be able to afford a couple VEPR,s and Arsenals. I'm also an AR owner. I'm just tired of this constant drivel about which is better, and the stupid things that continue to be spouted. The AK always works the AR always jams. The AR is very accurate, the AK can't hit hte broad side of a barn.



This sounds like a case for "Shut the F*&K up and get back to the AR Side-MAN" BLAH BLAH BLAH. Do any of you other AK guys go over there and cry in the AR threads about how AK arent that innacurate?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:29:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
The AK is still better!



+1
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:35:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:
Do any of you other AK guys go over there and cry in the AR threads about how AK arent that innacurate?



There's AR threads here??? Whatchu drinkin fella
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:35:42 PM EDT
re-bump for accessory queens.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:53:11 PM EDT
Inacurate- yet another dumbass who doesn't know AK's, sorry bro', my 5.56 AK is just as accurate as my LMT. The AK being more durable and in 5.56 or 5.45 just as accurate.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:17:25 AM EDT
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=264904

Sorry but he beat you by about 5 minutes.

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:46:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
Perhaps you should check out another post i made in the optics section, my comment was that AR's are more reliable than you might think but AKs are more accurate than you might think.


Originally Posted By GuitarGuy:
AR's are more reliable than you might think, but remember, AK's are more accurate than you might think.



My comments here were intended to poke fun at the high cost of an AR and the likely unwillingness of an AR owner to subject his weapon to that. I am fully aware of the ARs reputation, my best freind carried an M-4 durring his last tour with Seal Team 1 Charlie Platoon in Iraq. Their weapons are beat to shit, and yes, they do jam, yes, you do need to spend time cleaning them, but ultimately they do go bang with great regularity.

I would challenge you though to ask him which rifle he would rather carry, after having trained some ING troops and having had exposure to it, he vastly prefers the AK to his M-4, he cited an instance where for sevral weeks in a row they were experiancing random jams in multiple weapons where the cartridge would ride up on top of the bolt of an M4 durring extraction and cause the weapon to jam, this jam requires a set of needle nose pliars and 3 men to clear, obviously not something you want to deal with in a firefight. It got so bad that the entire platoon began to carry Leatherman tools in anticipation of this event. In this situation you could count on an AK to fire, thats about it. I am well aware of the merits and drawbacks of both weapons, i simply wanted to draw attention to the test shown in the video and not start a fight. I hope we can all be less sensitive in the future.




Well here's the opposite side. My cousin is/was Army SOG . 7th group and 20th group. While I was asking him stuff during a Christmas gathering , I asked if they had access to different weapons and such. To train with and carry if need be. The reply I got was they do get some weapons training with other country's stuff and the M4 was the only rifle/ carbine he would pick to carry if he had to choose.Said they might carry an AK only if they was deep in Indian country and resupply was an issue.

If the whole platoon of seals rifles was round over bolting then they had some ammo problems / mag problems.

The worst jam I have ever had in any type of rifle was a Bulgarian AK74. It did the same thing it seemingly didn't eject the spent case and it wound up on top of the piston area while fireing the rifle. It locked it up solid. It was really embarrassing when it happened. I was at a Georgia AR15.com gathering. So it didn't happen on the range by myself. I had 30 + gun nuts there watching my poor AK lock up. But I will say it cleared easily. I had to pop the top cover off and shake it out. It wrapped around the piston over the top. I haven't a clue how that could have happened. I guess maybe a weak Wolf load and it short stroked and didn't clear the ejection area fully.Cheers WarDawg
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:15:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 8:58:50 AM EDT by jugrunner]
I've owned them both ... Sold the ARs ...

Now I own 7 AKs ... That means absolutely nothing except that I can buy what I want ...

I want 7 more AKs ...

Reliability comes with the rifle ...

Accuracy comes with practice ...

It's just an opinion but I think ARs are over priced POS ...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:45:10 AM EDT
Well I won't be selling off my AR's anytime soon but I do truly believe the AK to be the superior system in terms of reliability and in the 5.45 or 5.56 cals- just as accurate with the same type of ammo. However they are producing gas piston systems for the AR and once they eliminate the bolt carrier buffer return system with need for a buttstock tube then the AR would likely be as reliable- course the SIG 551/2 series already did this but on an AK/FAL/HK style platform. Not to mention these days you can purchase rail system handguards for your AK's, ambi-saftey's, ambi-mag releases, and pretty much outfit them as you would an AR. The only thing lacking in the entire system is a bolt hold open system for faster mag changes.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:52:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
The AK always works the AR always jams. That's been my experience with several different makes of AR's The AR is very accurate, the AK can't hit hte broad side of a barn. Whoever siad that obviously never shot a 5.56x45 Arsenal



Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:13:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Creeper:
However they are producing gas piston systems for the AR and once they eliminate the bolt carrier buffer return system with need for a buttstock tube then the AR would likely be as reliable-



Funny, the fix for the AR reliability issue is to mimic an AK. Some on this site [cough] CJ [cough]
would have you believe you can fill an AR with mud and it will still shot sub-quarter MOA groups.

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:42:56 AM EDT
I have heard of MANY, yes thats right MANY soldiers dumping their AR's and opting to go with the Airsoft AK which is has also been deemed more reliable then the AR system, and a hell of alot lighter!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:58:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:15:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:

Originally Posted By Creeper:
However they are producing gas piston systems for the AR and once they eliminate the bolt carrier buffer return system with need for a buttstock tube then the AR would likely be as reliable-



Funny, the fix for the AR reliability issue is to mimic an AK. Some on this site [cough] CJ [cough]
would have you believe you can fill an AR with mud and it will still shot sub-quarter MOA groups.




Really? How many AK's use G-41 type short stroke tappet pistons?



I must have hurt your feelings, huh?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:18:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:21:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:

Originally Posted By Creeper:
However they are producing gas piston systems for the AR and once they eliminate the bolt carrier buffer return system with need for a buttstock tube then the AR would likely be as reliable-



Funny, the fix for the AR reliability issue is to mimic an AK. Some on this site [cough] CJ [cough]
would have you believe you can fill an AR with mud and it will still shot sub-quarter MOA groups.




Really? How many AK's use G-41 type short stroke tappet pistons?



I must have hurt your feelings, huh?



How could you? You would have to understand what your are saying first. You like to spout stuff you know nothing about. But please carry on......



You really should change your tampon there, buddy.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:22:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:23:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 10:25:06 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:27:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I am sorry, I could not understand you. Perhaps you could post more clearly if you first removed that sand from your mangina.



Oooooh.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:30:30 AM EDT
These little AR bitches sure are sensitive. "It's a Super-Delta G41 Alpha Bravo Short Stroke Ninja Piston." Hey, buddy, it's still a fucking gas piston.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 10:41:21 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:59:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
And you third world whoebags don't know which end of the tube the round comes out of.

Is isn't still just a piston and it helps if you actually understand what your are trying to argue when you say it.

BTW, I'll bet you would give your left nut for my AK collection but that is hard to do when you are stuck with a manginia!



Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:14:26 PM EDT
These arguements are soooooooo GAY.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:52:49 PM EDT
Same Shit, Different Day.


It's the reason I really quit going to the AR Forum.This shit is fast spreading thru the AK forums as well......sad really. I guess we no longer just appreciate the design of guns and thier construction and beauty.
You have people who are stuck on thier guns prasing them to the high heavens. Yes ARs are *GASP!* Reliable and Accurate under harsh combat conditions. and Yes AKs are Reliable and Accurate under the same conditions.

And Yes AKs JAM as do ARs. Get over it No gun is 100% functional at all times.


I also enjoy hearing the same stupid shit from idiots willing to put up a 300 dollar romy for a torture test against somebody's 1K Bushmaster...
And then they wonder why nobody will take up the challenge?!...
TO some people a rifle is a luxery item, not meant to be beat to death to prove a point to some Idiot who has nothing but free time on his hands.
Some people like to preserve thier guns, in hopes of passing them down to children and grandchildren. So don't shit on somebody when they don't want to get thier rifles scuffed and scratched. They means alot to some people. I'm sure you guys all have rifles which if someone put a scratch in the surface you might go off the handle.

I'm still always suprised NOBODY has learned one simple fact of life.....
The man behind the rifle is the most important part of the equation reguardless of what is in his hands. Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands.



Jake.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:02:37 PM EDT
Besides all the queer talk. That vid was pretty cool. I also liked watching that redneck looking guy with the SVD speaking russian. He looks like he could fit right in out here in the sticks of ol' Virginny.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:06:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
.....Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands (BUT ONLY IF IT'S WITH NICE UNSCRATCHED RIFLES)


Jake.



Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:23:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
.....Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands (BUT ONLY IF IT'S WITH NICE UNSCRATCHED RIFLES)


Jake.






mrmoshzilla is the type of guy who would wait and listen thru an super important speech then at the very end Fart and ruin it all.....

God Bless you mrmoshzilla
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:34:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
.....Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands (BUT ONLY IF IT'S WITH NICE UNSCRATCHED RIFLES)


Jake.






mrmoshzilla is the type of guy who would wait and listen thru an super important speech then at the very end Fart and ruin it all.....

God Bless you mrmoshzilla



sorry man i was a preacher's kid. sermons have a strange effect on me.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:55:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
Same Shit, Different Day.


It's the reason I really quit going to the AR Forum.This shit is fast spreading thru the AK forums as well......sad really. I guess we no longer just appreciate the design of guns and thier construction and beauty.
You have people who are stuck on thier guns prasing them to the high heavens. Yes ARs are *GASP!* Reliable and Accurate under harsh combat conditions. and Yes AKs are Reliable and Accurate under the same conditions.

And Yes AKs JAM as do ARs. Get over it No gun is 100% functional at all times.


I also enjoy hearing the same stupid shit from idiots willing to put up a 300 dollar romy for a torture test against somebody's 1K Bushmaster...
And then they wonder why nobody will take up the challenge?!...
TO some people a rifle is a luxery item, not meant to be beat to death to prove a point to some Idiot who has nothing but free time on his hands.
Some people like to preserve thier guns, in hopes of passing them down to children and grandchildren. So don't shit on somebody when they don't want to get thier rifles scuffed and scratched. They means alot to some people. I'm sure you guys all have rifles which if someone put a scratch in the surface you might go off the handle.

I'm still always suprised NOBODY has learned one simple fact of life.....
The man behind the rifle is the most important part of the equation reguardless of what is in his hands. Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands.



Jake.



Jake you seem like a smart and resonable guy. It's good to have folks like you here on this site. , Cheers WarDawg
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:56:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762bodydropper:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Well soldiers drop their M16's all the time, and I've known a person who ran over his with a Humvee, the M1114 Uparmored that weighs a few thousand pounds more than the standard 998, and this wasn't on soft ground, it was on asphalt.

So the AK was designed to be used by clumsy oafs who can't hold onto their weapons? With the training of the fighters in Liberia, the ones that have shown up here more than a few times?

And now somebody is going to jump in with the story of the buried AK, and the stories they heard from their dad's, uncles, friend, who knew a coworker that was SF in Vietnam and his M16 jammed all the time, so he ditched it and used an AK right.

The M16 was made for professional soldiers, or professionally, well trained soldiers who would spend some time cleaning their weapons. The Soviet army seemed to be based on the idea that quantity has a quality all it's own, and spent less time in training the simple things.

An no, I'm not an AK basher, I have my cheap WASR, and would love to be able to afford a couple VEPR,s and Arsenals. I'm also an AR owner. I'm just tired of this constant drivel about which is better, and the stupid things that continue to be spouted. The AK always works the AR always jams. The AR is very accurate, the AK can't hit hte broad side of a barn.



This sounds like a case for "Shut the F*&K up and get back to the AR Side-MAN" BLAH BLAH BLAH. Do any of you other AK guys go over there and cry in the AR threads about how AK arent that innacurate?
tinypic.com/kaib1e.jpg



I think I've pointed that out too actually. I'm just sick and tired of childish people and same stupid arguments, based on hearsay and near myth that have been going around for decades. It gets annoying the thousandth time you hear the same crap being spewed.

But then I guess I should just take my own advice, and once I see what shit is in a post, just ignore it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:18:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 3:19:08 PM EDT by JaketheSnake]

Originally Posted By WarDawg:

Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
Same Shit, Different Day.


It's the reason I really quit going to the AR Forum.This shit is fast spreading thru the AK forums as well......sad really. I guess we no longer just appreciate the design of guns and thier construction and beauty.
You have people who are stuck on thier guns prasing them to the high heavens. Yes ARs are *GASP!* Reliable and Accurate under harsh combat conditions. and Yes AKs are Reliable and Accurate under the same conditions.

And Yes AKs JAM as do ARs. Get over it No gun is 100% functional at all times.


I also enjoy hearing the same stupid shit from idiots willing to put up a 300 dollar romy for a torture test against somebody's 1K Bushmaster...
And then they wonder why nobody will take up the challenge?!...
TO some people a rifle is a luxery item, not meant to be beat to death to prove a point to some Idiot who has nothing but free time on his hands.
Some people like to preserve thier guns, in hopes of passing them down to children and grandchildren. So don't shit on somebody when they don't want to get thier rifles scuffed and scratched. They means alot to some people. I'm sure you guys all have rifles which if someone put a scratch in the surface you might go off the handle.

I'm still always suprised NOBODY has learned one simple fact of life.....
The man behind the rifle is the most important part of the equation reguardless of what is in his hands. Greater men have done more with less gun in thier hands.



Jake.



Jake you seem like a smart and resonable guy. It's good to have folks like you here on this site. , Cheers WarDawg


Why thank you kind sir!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:08:50 PM EDT
+1 to that post lol, a gas piston is a gas piston, im sorry, but it doesnt take in idiot to figure out its a more reliable system, or maybe it does? who cares. AK's go bang, and shoot just fine.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:14:13 PM EDT
i gotta say, i post a video and it blows up into a pissing contest, when i joined this site it was about the admiration and technical discussion of our rifles, at least on the AK side for sure, it seems as if this trend is changing, damn shame. it almost makes me not want to post anymore
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:24:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:51:19 PM EDT
Now cut the shit out!!! Its MLK day !!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:52:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:57:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Which month is Black Rifle History month?




The question is what chanel is the Black Rifle Telivison show on?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:59:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:01:46 PM EDT
Walker Texas Ranger roundhouses all rifles, AK or AR, doesnt matter
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:05:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:07:52 PM EDT
I know he has done this with a Snub 38 using +p ammo Gold Dots
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:00:16 PM EDT
yes it does have more to do with the tolerences in the reciever, but why then are all these gas piston AR uppers comeing to market? why would the U.S. military contract out to convert all existing AR's to this new system? i think theres something to it
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:08:34 PM EDT
Wow.

No offense, but AK owners are some of the most immature, flamiest (is that even a word?), most argumentative, stuck up, know nothing people I have ever known.

But that's just my opinion. Believe it, or don't.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:20:26 PM EDT
i cant see how thats possible, at least our side of this discussion forum used to be quite clean and based solely on technical discussion and admiration of our favorite rifles, it seems lately that it has become increasingly argumentative like the AR side, its a shame
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:01:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:04:38 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
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