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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 8:25:37 AM EDT
Akron Armory is selling Polish PMKMS AK underfolder kits and I'm thinking about getting one. HERE is their EE ad

I have been told that the 1.0mm receiver from GlobalTrades would be a very good receiver to build this kit onto.

for $59.99, Global offers "TYPE 2 - 1.0 mm Receiver, all holes, rails, and magazine well* machined to your specified caliber, center support tube installed. *You specify caliber: 7.62x39, 5.45x39 or .223"

What do they mean? Could I tell them what kit I have or point them towards Akron Armory's ad to give them all the information they need? Would the $60 (and my FFL tx fee) get me what I need to start building on? I'm hoping that for the $350 or so, I'd have all of the parts I need and the next step would be ordering rivets and misc. parts, right?

When I order rivets and fasteners, would I need to order U.S. parts to be 922r (?) compliant? I would rather not replace the external parts that make the immaculate kit as nice as it is. Will I be able to replace enough parts inside like the trigger etc. so as to not ruin the value of having such an authentic polish rifle? wouldn't a new gas piston or springs or different trigger make it not authentic?

What can I expect to spend $$-wise to finish this, not including misc. tools that I can find, borrow, build, modify or otherwise obtain?

thanks
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:01:44 AM EDT
AA has a good reputation, but don't think too long or they'll be gone.

GT makes a good receiver.

You tell them what caliber you need the receiver to be. That underfolder is 7.62x39, so you tell them that. When you get your receiver, use a square to check it for warping. If it's warped badly, I'd suggest trying to get another one. Bending these things was beyond me. A more experienced local builder compared them to spring steel.

$60+shipping+FFL. Then you need compliance parts.

Common compliance parts are fire control group(3 parts), muzzle device, pistol grip, gas piston, receiver, sometimes stocks. Go read the AK ABC's forum.

The easy/cheap thing to do for most people is drill out the rivets. The hard part is riveting and removing the barrel. Hopefully you can find someone local to rivet for you. With an underfolder, you will also have to make some cuts in the receiver that you don't have to with a fixed stock.

I completed my Romanian for about $300 total, kit was $100.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
Akron Armory is selling Polish PMKMS AK underfolder kits and I'm thinking about getting one. HERE is their EE ad

I have been told that the 1.0mm receiver from GlobalTrades would be a very good receiver to build this kit onto.

for $59.99, Global offers "TYPE 2 - 1.0 mm Receiver, all holes, rails, and magazine well* machined to your specified caliber, center support tube installed. *You specify caliber: 7.62x39, 5.45x39 or .223"

What do they mean? Could I tell them what kit I have or point them towards Akron Armory's ad to give them all the information they need? Would the $60 (and my FFL tx fee) get me what I need to start building on? I'm hoping that for the $350 or so, I'd have all of the parts I need and the next step would be ordering rivets and misc. parts, right?

When I order rivets and fasteners, would I need to order U.S. parts to be 922r (?) compliant? I would rather not replace the external parts that make the immaculate kit as nice as it is. Will I be able to replace enough parts inside like the trigger etc. so as to not ruin the value of having such an authentic polish rifle? wouldn't a new gas piston or springs or different trigger make it not authentic?

What can I expect to spend $$-wise to finish this, not including misc. tools that I can find, borrow, build, modify or otherwise obtain?

thanks

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:09:31 AM EDT
I need someone to tell me that it's worth buying the polish kit with all matching numbers even though i will be replacing parts. that slant brake is easily replaceable, brownell's sells them but I don't want it to be noticeably differnent from a polish brake.

The kits for sale have had the rivets drilled out already. They appear to have been totally stripped of receiver "junk" or leftovers. The front trunions are inspected for roundness and no overdrilling in the holes.

What "cuts" are you referring to in the receiver? The rear trunion is included:


why would I have to remove the barrel?

I guess I'll bite the bullet and just call in an order at lunch. if I end up not being able to complete the kit as i wish and be compliant with the laws, i can resell it...

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:29:00 AM EDT
The pistol grip and gas piston on mine were not serialized if you're that worried about the numbers. The FCG was.
Ya see that big round hole in the rear trunnion(tang if you prefer)? You have to make a hole similar to that in the receiver.
Global and AA-OK both sell US made pistol grips in various colors. I'm planning to get an orangish one to go on my Tantal so I don't have to switch the brake out.

"I need someone to tell me that it's worth buying the polish kit"
Assuming the ATF's new policy stays in place, you should be able to sit on it until some time after September 10, then resell for a gain.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:57:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
I need someone to tell me that it's worth buying the polish kit with all matching numbers even though i will be replacing parts. that slant brake is easily replaceable, brownell's sells them but I don't want it to be noticeably differnent from a polish brake.

The kits for sale have had the rivets drilled out already. They appear to have been totally stripped of receiver "junk" or leftovers. The front trunions are inspected for roundness and no overdrilling in the holes.

What "cuts" are you referring to in the receiver? The rear trunion is included:
members.aol.com/akronarmory/akms1

why would I have to remove the barrel?

I guess I'll bite the bullet and just call in an order at lunch. if I end up not being able to complete the kit as i wish and be compliant with the laws, i can resell it...




I got a Polish undefolder kit from AA. Most of the rivets are removed but not all of them. You still have the rivets in the front trunion. To remove these, you need to remove the barrel first. I used a pulley puller with great success to remove the barrel. Also, there is still the long rivet in the rear trunnion. These long rivets can be a PIA to remove but just be patient. I used a drill press at the slowest speed. Start off with a small drill bit and work your way up. Go slow and use oil to lube the bits. After you work your way up in drill bits you should be able to knock out the remainder of the rivet with a punch. Remember to take your time... it's not a race and you don't want the drill bit to dig into the trunnion metal.

IMO, it's not necessary to have a top of the line Polish kit. The barrels on all of them should be in good shape and since I plan on refinishing the metal finish, I could care less about the crappy original factory finish. I believe that even the grade 2 kits have all matching numbers... at least mine did.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:33:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 10:35:27 AM EDT by squeky]
Don't go learning how to build on a nice kit like a Polish one. Get a $99 Romy to learn on. Buy 'em both, try building the Romy. If you screw it up or don't want to build anymore (it really can be frustrating at first), sell the Polish for $100 profit in a couple months and call it even. You don't have to pull the barrel (for a screw build), but I don't see a reason not to. It's not rocket science, they do pull out easily when you remove the barrel pin. Just remember that all the tooling you buy will probably be a bad investment, unlike the kits or completed rifles. Who is going to want tooling after Sept 10? (people that don't have tools). That's really an open question, I don't know the answer.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:54:22 AM EDT
I ordered a Grade 1 an hour or so ago at lunch. Bob is a nice guy to deal with.

Am I stuck with the folding stock? If the wood on this kit is very nice, I wouldn't mind having a nice wooden stock to match. This makes me want a wooden stock (gives me wood?)



BUT, I can definitely be happy with my folder. If I can get a nice wooden stock to match the grips, I might jut build it with a wooden stock if that is possible. I'll be getting the 1.0mm from whatchamacallit.

I don't plan on buying any crazy ass tools for this build. I would consider buying a pulley puller from Autozone if it will make it easy. I've got a decent drill press and a good Craftsman vice block for the drill press along with a huge old Craftsman Vice handed down from my uncle. I've got the capabilities to by harbor freight bolt cutters and grind them up so I can install rivets and I've also got a decent bench grinder and the other essential crazy hobbiest tools...

You suggest a $99 Romanian kit? Where do I get that? Cheaper than dirt or something? Like an AMD maybe?

For the cutting of the rear of the receiver for the folder, I've got a decent step drill bit that i can sharpen. Will I need to worry about the hardened steel of the receiver?

I'm 50% polish and I do quite a bit of polish engineering around the house so hopefully this will turn out right!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:11:35 PM EDT
No, you're not stuck with the folder. You can install a regular rear tang and then use a fixed stock or some of the sidefolders. Some sidefolders (the Tapco ones for example) fit the same tang as a fixed stock. Sell off the underfolder and recoup some money.
Scottgull on the Equipment Exchange was selling Romy's. I think Centerfire and Tapco may have them also.
I drilled rivet holes in the receiver with Craftsman twist bits, that's all the info I can provide on drilling it. I used oil and a slow drill speed.
You can use Autozones used tool rental program to get the pulley puller. I spent about $20, then returned the tool and got my money back. It didn't work for me. I may try it on my Tantal with a little better fixturing/rigging. After thinking about it I can see some things I did wrong.
I drilled the rivets out without a press vice or a regular vice. Yours should be cake. I did run the bit into the tang. It seized and the bit spun in the chuck. Still riveted together fine, no catastrophe.

I think AMD's are Hungarian and cost more than $99.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
Am I stuck with the folding stock? If the wood on this kit is very nice, I wouldn't mind having a nice wooden stock to match. This makes me want a wooden stock (gives me wood?)

I don't plan on buying any crazy ass tools for this build. I would consider buying a pulley puller from Autozone if it will make it easy. I've got a decent drill press and a good Craftsman vice block for the drill press along with a huge old Craftsman Vice handed down from my uncle. I've got the capabilities to by harbor freight bolt cutters and grind them up so I can install rivets and I've also got a decent bench grinder and the other essential crazy hobbiest tools...

You suggest a $99 Romanian kit? Where do I get that? Cheaper than dirt or something? Like an AMD maybe?

For the cutting of the rear of the receiver for the folder, I've got a decent step drill bit that i can sharpen. Will I need to worry about the hardened steel of the receiver?

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:46:18 PM EDT
So what am I going to be doing by building a romanian kit on this receiver? Won't I end up with a Romanian that I never intended on owning? I'll then have to order another receiver, right? Or, am I looking to use the Romanian parts kit as practice drilling out pins and installing rivets? Would I buy 1.0mm sheetmetal and then try to rivet spare pieces to the romy? and, even drill the rivets back out for more practice over and over again?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:50:46 PM EDT
well i have a nice rear stock from a romy i will trade you for the under folder, complete with trunion
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:16:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 2:17:27 PM EDT by Longboat]
The simplest way to open up the receiver for an underfolder is to centerpunch the 3 holes for the underfolder assembly on one side, then drill them undersized and file up to the correct size. Only working on one side will allow you to insert the rear trunnion and use that as a guide to drill the other side. It isn't hard, don't let it scare you.

If you have a dremmel, use the chainsaw sharpening stones to creep up on the finished dimensions.

ETA.. I have never seen a pistol grip numbered to a rifle. Same with the gas piston. The bolt carrier yes, the piston no.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:44:10 PM EDT
The idea is that you practice on the cheap Romy, building it all the way up, then move on to your more expensive kit. I wouldn't do it, it's up to you.
Yes, you'd be buying another receiver. You would be building a whole other gun, just for practice. Like I said, I wouldn't do it if all you want is the underfolder.
If it was my, I'd go with the underfolder to keep it original. They look cool too.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
So what am I going to be doing by building a romanian kit on this receiver? Won't I end up with a Romanian that I never intended on owning? I'll then have to order another receiver, right? Or, am I looking to use the Romanian parts kit as practice drilling out pins and installing rivets? Would I buy 1.0mm sheetmetal and then try to rivet spare pieces to the romy? and, even drill the rivets back out for more practice over and over again?

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:44:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 2:46:36 PM EDT by squeky]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
So what am I going to be doing by building a romanian kit on this receiver? Won't I end up with a Romanian that I never intended on owning? I'll then have to order another receiver, right? Or, am I looking to use the Romanian parts kit as practice drilling out pins and installing rivets? Would I buy 1.0mm sheetmetal and then try to rivet spare pieces to the romy? and, even drill the rivets back out for more practice over and over again?



Now you see why it's addictive?! When there was no end in sight with kits and flats are $12 each, this line of thinking got everyone a pile of AK's. But yeah, I was saying you should entirely build up a Romy on a receiver then get another receiver for the Polish build. Or you could just practice pulling the barrel and punching/drilling rivets on the Romy then apply your news skills to the Polish. Right now, TAPCO (follow the link) has a great deal on their Romys with a G2 trigger for $125. They're in great condition. You can always buy now and build later, but you can't buy later Choice is yours, just be sure to use a method that is reversible so if you do want to redo it later, you can.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:13:12 PM EDT
i think that as far as practicing goes, i'll practice squishing rivets into scrap metal from the hardware store.

Is the reason that receivers don't come with holes drilled for front and rear trunion and stock parts is because they are like AR15 front sight bases, no two are the same?

I know that pistol grips are not numbered- that would be stupid, but i'd rather not replace an original with a copy that looks like shit just because I don't know any better. I would like to find out now so I will know when I have to order.

How many new U.S. Made parts do I need? I would imagine I'm going to need to replace the standard 6. Of course, the receiver will be 1, piston can be #2, pistol grip can be #3 and three trigger parts can constitute the final 3. I would have no problem with this at all, a new trigger pack can be a good thing, right?

in deciding which parts will go in the trash, I have a few questions:

1. Which parts can be replaced for a definite hands-down improvement? Trigger group?
2. Any parts like the bolt good to replace?

It looks like I might end up having to pay $80 for a decent FCG, $25-$30 for a piston, $10 for a pistol grip and $60 for the receiver. That's $200 for U.S. compliant parts and a total rifle (minus fasteners.) WOW.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:24:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:27:34 PM EDT by tapeo1]
JosephR,

You do not need to spend $80 for a good FCG. You can buy a Tapco G2 FCG for $35 or less. They are really nice FCG. If you want a FCG that is adjustable then you'll need to spend the $80 for the RSA FCG. You can also find stainless steel piston made in the USA for around $15.

ETA: Don't through any unused parts away. I'll take your old FCG and pay for the shipping on it.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:41:10 PM EDT
Practicing like that sounds fine.

Yes. GT doesn't drill because the tangs and trunnions can be slightly different.

I believe that you are correct with 6. The parts that you named are what I consider to be the ideal parts based on cost and ease of replacement.

I'm hoping you aren't actually going to trash them. Just consider, the laws may change and you may be able to put the original pistol grip back on.

And +1 on the $35-$40 G2 trigger group. You'll want a double hook to go with a Global receiver.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
i think that as far as practicing goes, i'll practice squishing rivets into scrap metal from the hardware store.

Is the reason that receivers don't come with holes drilled for front and rear trunion and stock parts is because they are like AR15 front sight bases, no two are the same?

How many new U.S. Made parts do I need? I would imagine I'm going to need to replace the standard 6. Of course, the receiver will be 1, piston can be #2, pistol grip can be #3 and three trigger parts can constitute the final 3. I would have no problem with this at all, a new trigger pack can be a good thing, right?

in deciding which parts will go in the trash, I have a few questions:

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:34:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Longboat:

ETA.. I have never seen a pistol grip numbered to a rifle. Same with the gas piston. The bolt carrier yes, the piston no.



my piston is numbered
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:50:18 PM EDT
I'll look at the kit closely as well as post pictures before replacing anything. Nothing will go in the garbage. I'm happy to hear I can get a trigger group for half the original "guess"

I really hope the wood furniture is matching. It looks like it may be a toss up as to whether or not the upper and lower handguards will look like they come from the same wood from the same tree. I can only imagine the two pieces are made at two totally separate times and in two totally separate places, even if on the same day in the same factory.

What would a really nice laminated pistol grip and front grip set go for? I saw on the AK picture thread (first page I think) a VERY nice laminated pistol grip. The layers were perfect and the forend parts were VERY nice as well...

Will the receiver from Global have markings engraved besides what is mandatory per ATF regs? I would imagine not. I think I'd like to look into having an engraver add the polish letters or markings for single safe and auto if there are such a thing. Also, it isn't normal for the receivers to have the notches for both single and full, is it? What will I have to do to get both positions? From what I remember from an old friend's AK (MAK), down from safe was single and that was all the lever would move. But, had it been full auto or had a full auto conversion done, down 1 would have been full and down 2 would have been single- provided the bent metal tab from the trigger guard/magazine paddle release doohicky was bent back out of the way...
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:21:32 PM EDT
Unfortunately, the Global receiver has their little logo on the bottom of the receiver and the serial number on the right side. In an idea world, they would leave off the logo and put the serial number on the bottom. Actually, I've heard that if you request this, they will do it for an extra charge and it'll take longer to get from them. Why they just don't do it to all their receivers is a mystery to me.

As far as having the Polish markings on the receiver, you could probably check around and see if anyone could stamp them for you. I think this would look better (and more original) than engraving them. Although, this may be difficult to do on a heat treated receiver... I'm really not sure. You should also be able to put in the second selector notch.... I had Chris Butler at AK USA do this for me on a build I had done last year.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 12:42:25 AM EDT by Mak]
Global Trades does offer relocated and custom serial numbers at additional cost.
If you go with a wood stock and need a regular rear trunnion, I have a couple of extras.
You can get a Polish wood buttstock from laukart on the Equipment Exchange straight from Poland.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:32:08 PM EDT
you guys are friggin' great

Global has the best receivers from what I've heard. Is there a "#2" manufacturer that is very close but who does or will do what we'd like to see for an authentic polish receiver?

What would I be turning this PMKMS into by putting a solid wood stock on it? Would it distinctly NOT look right? In the AR15 boards, many people go to great lengths to get the old original 1:12 barrels or slab sided uppers for their VietNam era clones, but someone always quickly points out not only inconsistencies, but sometimes impossibilities with the choices they've made for other parts. I don't mind having a rifle that could bring comments like "that break doesn't look right" or "that pistol grip doesn't look right" as long as there could be responses of "yeah, but it could have been made that way" or "that pistol grip or stock could have been used on that rifle at that time" as opposed to "that rifle is all polish, there would have been no way for a pistol grip from another country, 10 years in the future to be used on it and not have other things changed..." type of comments.

thanks still...

keep 'em coming. i'm all about hearing the criticism now. you open your mouths later, i'll be pissed
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:11:21 PM EDT
Your rifle would look just fine with a fixed laminated wood stock. There's no difference between the fixed stock AK and the underfolder other than the stock. If you decide to go with a fixed stock, you could always sell off the folding stock for around $80 to $100. I'm sure you could sell it pretty quickly too.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 3:16:03 PM EDT
so that PMKMS could have just as easily been made with a wooden stock, or probably was also made with a wooden stock? I'm going to have to search through the AK variants somewhere here on this site...

I looked at laukart's wooden stock set. They are nice.

would this PMKMS be something else then? I'm probably asking pointless questions...
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 3:34:44 PM EDT
Yes, they are completely identical other than the type of stock used. Now, for the assembly of the folding stock version, they would have had to make cutouts in the receiver for the folding stock assembly or left the receiver as is for the fixed stock. There are no other physical differences between the two. Although, I'm sure somewhere back in Poland at the factory, the serial number for your kit in marked down as being that of a folding stock version.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 5:54:17 PM EDT
yeah, but in poland it would have been written down wrong...
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 6:51:11 PM EDT
A Polish guy telling Polish jokes! What I've always wondered is where did these Polish jokes originate? What's the history behind them?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:15:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tapeo1:
A Polish guy telling Polish jokes! What I've always wondered is where did these Polish jokes originate? What's the history behind them?



I think most Polish jokes were once black jokes that had to become a little more PC- back when black jokes were all based on blacks being stupid ignorant people- like in the early days of TV. Since Poland was so far away and they were in the shadows of the U.S.S.R., noone cared about the Poles. Although, it's a lot easier to tell if you are in a room with a black than it is a polak.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:24:58 AM EDT
I believe it would be an AKM.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
would this PMKMS be something else then? I'm probably asking pointless questions...

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:14:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:

Originally Posted By tapeo1:
A Polish guy telling Polish jokes! What I've always wondered is where did these Polish jokes originate? What's the history behind them?



I think most Polish jokes were once black jokes that had to become a little more PC- back when black jokes were all based on blacks being stupid ignorant people- like in the early days of TV. Since Poland was so far away and they were in the shadows of the U.S.S.R., noone cared about the Poles. Although, it's a lot easier to tell if you are in a room with a black than it is a polak.




I was thinking that it dated further back than that... possibly back to the waves of immigration at around the turn of the century. Being that Poles are Catholics and Slavs plus spoke a different language, they were easy pickings for bad jokes. Who knows?
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