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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 3:08:47 AM EDT
OK, first off I am NOT a narc, nor am I with any government agency or with law enforcement. No, I am not a TV reporter either, or Anti-Gun slime. I'm not an Alien Spy or Zombie hearder either. I threw that one in as an added promise that I am in no way trying to get anyone in trouble. Answer this post via PM if you want, I just wanna understand this whole "Kit" thing.

I've been getting flyers and catalogs for awhile with these AK47 kit's for sale in 'em. They are described as being in good condition and so forth so I assume these are old military rifles with their recievers chopped up. I've also seen similar kits for HK G3's, Stens, and old English Subbies too. Anyway, these kits supposedly come with everything but the lower reciever. Recently one company has been offering plastic "dummy" recievers to use with these kits to make de-milled collector pieces. Anyway, are there alot of guys building "real" AK's with these kits? The reason I ask is because there are a LOT of AK's being auctioned off on another site and alot of them look like the same type of AK's as the ones in the kits, and they are being sold for cheap. I've built 3 AR15's so far from scratch and wouldn't mind building an AK myself too. Besides, I'd save a few bucks while I was at it too.

Seriously guys, I don't want to get anyone in trouble, especially myself and I figured I'd ask all of you before even thinking about purchasing one of these kits. well, I am thinking about it but you know what I mean. I realize that this is a touchy subject, and totally understand if I don't get any responses for this. I won't do the build if it's illegal, so if it is illegal, please let me know.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:12:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 3:13:07 AM EDT by Atreides]
OOps. I just realized I should have posted this under the Build it yourself section.

Sorry guys.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:19:25 AM EDT
Its legal as long as you build it as a semi auto and have enough US made parts in it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:18:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dskeet:
Its legal as long as you build it as a semi auto and have enough US made parts in it.

Thanks dskeet!

Yeah, I noticed that some advertisers put down "counts as 2-3 parts" next to some of their AK parts. How many parts need to be US? Is it a percentage? If I change the furniature, does that count?
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:48:16 AM EDT
Need 5 US parts (6 if you have a muzzle device). Furnitue counts as compliance parts. Check the BIY forum. All the informaton you need is there.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:02:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 5:09:02 AM EDT by Exile]
Furniture has to be US made like ironwood, KVAR and tapco if you want it to count . People typically put in a G2 trigger 3 parts count(hammer, trigger, sear) then the receiver 1 part count, some like to put on a new handle then one more depending on the look you want to go for. If you want to build from a parts kit you might to get one or 2 there is a barrel ban coming, that’s why allot of prices are going up on kits.
it takes more fitting than an AR but its worth it heres a picture of my first one it's built on a Global Trades Rec.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:23:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 5:25:41 AM EDT by terma-nator]
It's not the number of US parts that you have to have. It's the maximum number (10) of imported parts that you can have. So once you decide which 10 original parts you want to keep, you then need to replace the other ones with US made parts.

The FCG is a good start (since the originals usually suck) and the US made receiver. So you've got 4 right there.

Also, building an AK from a kit is really building it.

Assembling an AR-15 from "Scratch", which only takes 45 minutes to do (Including a 30 minute coffee break!) is actually less work that putting together a childs toy.

An AK really needs to be built. The parts need to be fitted and holes need to be located and drilled. Metal needs to be cut and trimmed (in most cases). Then you also will need to sand blast and paint (Or some type of finish) the gun if you want it to look good.

If you only want one gun, than I recommend that you get someone (An AK smith) to build it for you. Otherwise, you will have to invest in a several tools that you will need to do a halfway decent job of building it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:18:09 AM EDT
As others have said, the builds are legal as long as you don't drill the third hole (for the auto sear) in the new reciever and use enough US parts to keep the "countable" foreign parts to 10 or less. Most AK kits with threaded barrels that are meant for stamped receivers have 16 countable parts so you'll need 6 US parts. The easiest way, at least for me, was to use a US fire control group (counts as 3), US gas piston (1), US muzzle break (1) and a US pistol grip (1). With this setup you can use any magazine and keep the rest of the original furniture. If you use US magazine floorplates and followers as your countable parts then you put a different magazine in it you're technically in violation of federal law.

Building does require some skills and tools. I've screwed together the 4 I've done and find this to be a perfectly acceptable method, though others will disagree. You'll need some way to press the barrel out and back into the front trunnion (you can do a screw build without taking the barrel out, but I don't recommend it), a drill press, taps and the skill to use them. Also, dremel, bench grinder or belt sander, etc, etc, will make the job faster and easier. A bead or sand blaster is another plus. If you decide to rivet you'll need rivet tooling.

Of course you can send your kit out to be built. Either way, get your kits soon as the barrel ban will go into affect next year and you'll have to buy a US made barrel after it takes affect.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:32:41 AM EDT
+1 on what he said...
And, those plastic receivers are just to make a wall hanger AK, not to make a firing one. I *think* the plastic receiver can't be used to make a shootable one, and not just because it's fragile.
Also it's illegal and stupid to do that.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:46:33 AM EDT
Assembling AK rifles with the intention of selling them as a commercial product places the assembler in the category of manufacturer which then raises the requirement of filing forms and payment of taxes.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:39:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarlanNDS:
Assembling AK rifles with the intention of selling them as a commercial product places the assembler in the category of manufacturer which then raises the requirement of filing forms and payment of taxes.

if you sell them right away, sure.

if you build some, then sell one or two a few months later, then sell a couple more a few more months later, "they" have a hard case to try and prove.

especially if you're not making any serious income off of it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:58:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:04:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 9:12:11 AM EDT by Atreides]
This is some great info guys, THANK YOU!!!

First off I have no intention of selling this gun once built. The news of it being a TRUE "project" is actually music to my ears. "Building" an AR15 is just dumping parts into/on aluminum recievers, and while I am enjoying shooting them, they weren't really a challenge to get. I have built 2 1911's so far and I really enjoy "fitting" pieces together, especially to make them work better, not just fit. This whole AK build thing is sounding like a lot of fun for sure.

I was just worried about the legality of it all. I don't plan on building a ton of these, but it still saddens me to hear that there's a ban on it's way. I want to build a SHOOTER...not just a safe queen therefore I am fully ready to spend the time needed to do the job right. I have access to both a sandblaster & powdercoat system, so the finish won't be a problem.

Thanks for the pics Exile, your gun looks great! That's what I want, a SHOOTER!!!

I guess the fire control group is the way to go as far as the 1st US parts are concerned. I already have the muzzle device I wanna put on it (Fake Can) and the pistol grip sounds easy enough. Are the US gas pistons better than the originals? Is there a advantage to using them?

Oh I didn't mean to come across as saying the plastic recievers were suitable for a "real" gun dark knight, I just thought that maybe these kits were around only to build "Show" pieces.

This is starting to sound better and better to me. As far as the reciver goes, how would I go about registering one of those 80% jobs? Or do I have to buy a complete reciver in order to make the gun legal? Someone told me if I etch my name on the raw reciever in plain view that would serve as a serial # is this true? Sorry for so many questions guys, I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times by now, but I really appreciate you taking the time out to explain these things to me.

What I want to end up with is:

A WORKING AK47 carbine, nothing fancy, nothing illegal. I don't want or need a full-auto or SBR, all I want is a rifle I can go shoot on Sunday afternoons. I intend on keeping the gun (as long as I can get her running in the 1st place!) and have no intentions of selling it, now, or 5 years down the road. While I am no where near a master gunsmith I am confident enough in my skills to feel that I can do all the "fitting" needed to complete this project.

With that in mind, I would RATHER start with an 80% reciever (If it's legal). That way I can brag that I truly did make this gun from scratch! LOL! If not, that's OK, I have no problem registering a ready made reciever. It would be like putting together another AR15 is all.

Thanks again everybody! I really do appreciate you guys taking the time out to answer my questions. I don't think I would ever come up with the nerve to start an AK47 project if I hadn't gotten all this valueable info from ya'll.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:18:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 9:25:38 AM EDT by Atreides]
Oh and one more thing...

How do you put those massive rivets on the lowers? LOL! Thems are huge suckers. Where do you get them from?

I know YOU know exile, your gun has SHINY rivets on it! LOL!

NEVER MIND!!!!! I found out all I needed to bout them rivets on AK builder.com Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:35:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 9:39:30 AM EDT by Exile]
My gun had not been refinished yet took it out to make sure she ran fine.
I like the global trade rec. bent, heat treated, rails and center support in
Done a flat and they suck not worth the 35 bucks cheaper in my opinion
I got in on a group buy on my rivets (have tons)but you can find ppl on the EE selling them for less than $8 a set I’d suggest buying a few sets even if you are only doing one or 2 guns
You put the long rivets in with a press and plinker jig the long ones are a bit of a pain but not to bad. Short ones we used a pair of bolt cutters from CWToyota and then the jig and press.
Even with a predone receiver it will be harder to build than a AR
Hope that helps
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:54:46 AM EDT
You bet that helped Exile.

Well, I went ahead and ordered some stuff today. I got a Yugo 7.62mm Krink kit from Ohio Rapid Fire, and decided to go the "Flat" route on the lower reciever. This may change once everything gets here and I start working with it, but for now I wanted to give it a try. It's not about the money saved, for me I want to see if I can do it or not.

I also purchased a US Control Group, a US made pistol grip, a rivet kit and fake flash surpressor. I haven't been this excited about a project in a long time. I'm a little worried about what size hole to cut out of the flat to accomodate the underfolder stock, but other than that I'm good.

Thanks again for all the good advice guys I'm not so skeptical about this project because of all of your help.
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