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Posted: 12/29/2021 1:14:06 PM EDT
Has the paradigm shifted from tactical/larping to more common edc?

The GWOT and it’s many veterans allowed us to learn many lessons from the wars. As it is now officially wound down and now that we seem to have more civil unrest are you now switching your training from tactical to training for things that we as everyday Americans can expect to encounter?
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 1:26:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Realistically we should be training all of it.

RECCE, EDC, group tactics, vehicle, etc.

We must be proficient for just about any scenario that's thrown at us, too many unknowns at this stage of the game. If anything we're seeing a shift more towards survival training for off grid living...
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 1:28:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Training classes are often just a series of drills. They have no specific application to the GWOT or to CWII. Maybe, if you count concealed carry vs battle belt, there’s some nuance. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of drills.

Maybe I missed the point?

Link Posted: 12/29/2021 1:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cayman_shen] [#3]
I don't know what "everyone" is doing, but walking around Larping was never too smart. Grayman, aka guerilla mentality, is where it's at.  Why train to be immediately cut down by an overwhelmingly superior force in your expensive Crye costume?

If you're worried about SHTF, it's about how fast you can get the hell away and disappear.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 3:32:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Pistol CCW is way more common now than when I started out.  Over the last 20 years I've seen tremendous improvements in the average pistol marksmanship at public shooting ranges. There is more of a focus on self defense than sporting use for firearms.  Semi-autos have become dominate.

There was once an attitude that a pump action 12ga was the perfect self defense weapon.  And a 12ga pump is great for home defense, but the best gun is what you have with you and a pistol is a lot easier to carry around.

These days AR's are a lot more common and you see lots of "tactical rifle".  

PRS is growing fast, so there is hope that art of riflery will continue to grow and expand the expectation of what is possible.

I have no doubt that the GWOT has influenced a generation or 2 of instructors.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 3:39:05 PM EDT
[#5]
In recent decades, the focus of gun culture has shifted from hunting and recreational shooting to self-defense

...over time, self-defense has moved from being a part of American gun culture to being its core element. Incubated in the social unrest and global uncertainty of the 1960s and ’70s, Gun Culture 2.0 was hatched in the 1980s and 1990s and has been maturing ever since.

This is evident in various types of data, including the growing percentage of gun owners who say they own guns for self-defense, the increasing proportion of handguns sold in the civilian market, the rise of the civilian defensive firearms training industry, the codification of castle doctrine and stand-your-ground laws, the liberalization of concealed-carry laws and the growing number of Americans who have permits to carry concealed weapons in public.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 3:47:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rock71:
Training classes are often just a series of drills. They have no specific application to the GWOT or to CWII. Maybe, if you count concealed carry vs battle belt, there’s some nuance. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of drills.

Maybe I missed the point?

View Quote



I concur 100%.

In the order of importance, I rank the following training:

1) Immediate medial training ---- > First Aid/CPR/Trauma (GSW bleeding control)

2) Pistol/CCW

3) Long gun (MSR's/shotties/etc)

You are more likely to need/use med training more than anything else. That's a fact.

Yes, training in all three are very important, but get some 1st Aid and/or CPR training, too.
For the record, I am not a med trainer, just a joe that realizes the realities.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 4:00:16 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't think it has at all.  

I've done many hundreds of training hours over the last 5 years and never considered anything I was involved with as tactical larping.   As just an everyday CCW guy, all pistol training was all done from concealment with what I EDC.

Rifle training was minimal in comparison to pistol, medical and tactics/thinking training because frankly fighting my way to a rifle is tactical BS in my EDC urban setting.   Plus rifles are way easier to shoot well after long layoffs and having good pistol (ie raw shooting fundamental) skills all but guarantees solid proficiency on a rifle, but none of that is quite as true when reversed due to their inherent cheat mode.

90% of all firearm training is about the fundamentals.  Advanced training is mostly just doing the same fundamentals only better and more efficiently, while also adding in problem solving tasks, changing environments, and working against thinking moving targets.    All that is pertinent to everyday concealed carry.

Now if someone else has been prioritizing things like team door breaching and hanging out in ghillie suits over improving their raw shooting fundamentals and working on realistic scenario problem solving while claiming it was all relevant to their CCW and suburban HD lifestyle, then yeah maybe they should reevaluate their training needs.  

There is a potential purpose to all of it,  it's just that some should probably prioritize the different areas of training in a more logical order.  I've seen a few people running through shoothouse training or running and gunning against big steel like billy badass,  that were really bad when it came to actually placing rounds where they were expected to go under more realistically narrow accuracy expectations when hits were evaluated on paper.   They apparently skipped past training in good fundamentals and went straight for the showmanship.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 4:09:42 PM EDT
[#8]
I find that after BLM and ANTIFA's season of attacking cars and looting and destroying cities that vehicle defense has a lot of interest as does defense against violent mobs and violent crime in general.

Kenosha was a great advertisement for how effective the AR-15 is at defending yourself from a violent mob.  The fact that the FBI was involved with the violence in Kenosha and went after Kyle instead of the criminals,  Democrat DA's are directly responsible for countless recent murders says to me that we are not fighting random violence, but a well funded organized campaign of violence on behalf of a left supporting oligarchs.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 4:33:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Classic article: Biden’s voodoo crime control: Americans have more reason to own a gun than ever before

The crime wave washing over our cities is due to policies and causes championed by (Nancy Pelosi's) party and her “just perfect” president — including defunding and demonizing the police, ending cash bail, reducing felonies to misdemeanors, loosening borders and allowing the mob free-rein during last year’s riots.

As business districts went up in flames, police were attacked and stores were looted, Democratic officeholders either ignored the mob or cheered it on. Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey helpfully observed: “Yes, America is burning, but that’s how forests grow.” Chaos in the streets is also how totalitarian movements grow, like the Bolsheviks in 1917 and the Nazis in 1933

...Gun control is voodoo crime control. It won’t keep guns out of the hands of determined criminals or psychopaths.

...Widespread gun ownership is one reason we’ve never had a Stalin, a Hitler or a Castro.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rock71:
Training classes are often just a series of drills. They have no specific application to the GWOT or to CWII. Maybe, if you count concealed carry vs battle belt, there’s some nuance. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of drills.

Maybe I missed the point?

View Quote


I can agree that most classes are just drill. What I’m seeing though is an emphasis on ccw and pretty much how we dress everyday where as a few years ago was on emphasis on plate carriers, carbines, etc.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 7:03:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mo4040:



I concur 100%.

In the order of importance, I rank the following training:

1) Immediate medial training ---- > First Aid/CPR/Trauma (GSW bleeding control)

2) Pistol/CCW

3) Long gun (MSR's/shotties/etc)

You are more likely to need/use med training more than anything else. That's a fact.

Yes, training in all three are very important, but get some 1st Aid and/or CPR training, too.
For the record, I am not a med trainer, just a joe that realizes the realities.
View Quote


For myself I rank importance in:

1) fitness
2) medical
3)combatives
4) pistol
5) long arms
Link Posted: 12/31/2021 3:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: R_S] [#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AngryPanda:


I can agree that most classes are just drill. What I’m seeing though is an emphasis on ccw and pretty much how we dress everyday where as a few years ago was on emphasis on plate carriers, carbines, etc.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AngryPanda:
Originally Posted By rock71:
Training classes are often just a series of drills. They have no specific application to the GWOT or to CWII. Maybe, if you count concealed carry vs battle belt, there’s some nuance. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of drills.

Maybe I missed the point?



I can agree that most classes are just drill. What I’m seeing though is an emphasis on ccw and pretty much how we dress everyday where as a few years ago was on emphasis on plate carriers, carbines, etc.


I'm still seeing a lot of interest with carbines, chest rigs, and even plate carriers (which are harder to wear with the heat here).

True Run and Gun events, Tactical Games, etc, seem to be more than a fad.

... for the first 17 years of AR production (1964-1981), it was about as popular as the Remington Model 31 Shotgun; at around 9,000 to 10,000 units sold annually.  However, following the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, it's popularity exploded as 7.5~ million were made over the nineteen years from 1998 to 2017.

Market Overview: The global AR-15 Series Rifles market is anticipated to rise at a considerable rate during the forecast period, between 2021 and 2026.  The market for the AR-15 has grown and appears that it will continue to grow.  

Perhaps CCW is growing even faster?

Concealed Carry Permits Jump 10.5% in 2021

The number of active concealed carry licenses and permits in the U.S. has soared to more than 21.52 million this year, according to the annual report from the Crime Prevention Research Center.

The report, from CPRC founder and President John Lott, Carlisle E. Moody Research Director and Professor at the College of William & Mary, and research associate Rujun Wang, says the spike represents “a 48% increase since 2016,”
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 12:29:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VillageIdiot2] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mo4040:



I concur 100%.

In the order of importance, I rank the following training:

1) Immediate medial training ---- > First Aid/CPR/Trauma (GSW bleeding control)

2) Pistol/CCW

3) Long gun (MSR's/shotties/etc)

You are more likely to need/use med training more than anything else. That's a fact.

Yes, training in all three are very important, but get some 1st Aid and/or CPR training, too.
For the record, I am not a med trainer, just a joe that realizes the realities.
View Quote


Yep. Med emergencies will be the more than likely scenario you'll encounter. Not your GSW's, or hollywood movie traumas but more your cardiac, strokes, diabetic emergencies.
Link Posted: 1/8/2022 12:15:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By AngryPanda:


For myself I rank importance in:

1) fitness
2) medical
3)combatives
4) pistol
5) long arms
View Quote



I think that is a great priority of skills.

Drunk, Fat and Stupid is no way to go thru life, as the saying goes.

I can teach anyone to shoot a pistol or rifle adequately. But that is just one skill.
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