Posted: 5/11/2026 10:47:47 AM EDT
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I took my first ever pistol training class this weekend, had a great time and learned a bunch. For my entire pistol shooting timeline I've had a tendency to break shots left of my aim. We of course worked on grips in the class, which helped some earlier in the day, but when we got to aiming concepts, the instructor taught 3 options, one of which was using the entire backplate of the pistol as your aim point. I've been into shooting for decades now and never heard of this concept. I've always struggled under rapid fire getting a clear sight picture (equal heigh, equal light) quickly, the pistol is just moving around some as I recover from recoil. Trying the backplate method, with both eyes open, just overlay that Glock square backend over the target and my eyes naturally superimpose square over the target - if all your other kinesthetics are good, you're on target. First target paper probably got 200 rounds, had scattered shots all over the A-zone and at least 10 flyers into the C. New target paper with the new method, after the same round count I had essentially one hollowed out 6" hole with only 1 flyer to the C. This included a volume of fire drill where it was draw and fire as many rounds as possible in 5 seconds - I dumped a 17 round mag under 5s with a 1.39 draw, all A-zone. Needless to say I was blown away, this was easily 20% faster and much more accurate on follow up shots. Obviously it's not super precision shooting but self-defense oriented. Is there a reason I haven't heard of this before? Safety concerns, accuracy concerns, something else? I'm just so surprised I've never heard of it in 20+ years of shooting. |
| I picked this technique up years ago. My use and understanding was for rapid target acquisition, inside ~7yds. Also, you don't focus on the backplate, but on the target and fire when the backplate (in your near field) covers the target. I used this for a while until my skills and muscle memory just got better with aligning to the sights. |
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More like looking "through" the backplate. I'm still target focused, I think my non-dominant eye is doing most the work there, but my dominant eye is just laying the backplate of the pistol over the target. MS Paint: The top image is the visual I was trying to aim with before, front post between the U, equal height across the top of the 3 lines, equal light between on each side of the post. Bottom image is roughly what my brain visualizes using this method. The back plate of the pistol really just overlays the target, but because both eyes are open I can still clearly a specific aim point (like a number or letter that's on the target paper). My mind doesn't even register the sights as being there, I'm just putting a big black square over the target and going to town. Far more intuitive, at least for me. https://imgtree.co/i/lKToDUJ_ |
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I've heard different terms for the technique. Metal on Meat is a decent term. Focus on the target, 2 hand grip, arms extended, bring your pistol into view, with pistol superimposed over the target. It's a great way to learn to shoot fast. You start developing a better feel for how the pistol behaves during recoil, and can make grip adjustments as needed. Technique is useful at 3-to-7 yards. Pistol frame must be no wider than target for accuracy. |
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Roger Phillips and Gabe Suarez both taught this technique. I haven't found it in any of the historical point shooting references, but it may well be there somewhere. Decades ago guys like Cooper and Ken Hackathorn tried to convince the world that Point shooting didn't work... despite ALL the long standing evidence to the contrary. |
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IIRC, there was a time it was being taught by the Suarez crew as "metal on meat" aiming, or something like it. With the older Glocks, I've been fond of canting them and using the corner of the slide like a shotgun vent rib. I don't recall if it was Suarez or someone else who would put tape over students sights so that they would learn to index the gun on target with out being overly reliant on sights. The concept is much more popular among groups that do force on force training like Sims or airsoft, and very unpopular with the groups shooting static targets on the range. |
WTB: Steel Bodied Surefire Trainer
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Originally Posted By Postal0311: IIRC, there was a time it was being taught by the Suarez crew as "metal on meat" aiming, or something like it. With the older Glocks, I've been fond of canting them and using the corner of the slide like a shotgun vent rib. I don't recall if it was Suarez or someone else who would put tape over students sights so that they would learn to index the gun on target with out being overly reliant on sights. The concept is much more popular among groups that do force on force training like Sims or airsoft, and very unpopular with the groups shooting static targets on the range. What would make it unpopular? Safety concerns in group settings comes to mind |
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Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: What would make it unpopular? Safety concerns in group settings comes to mind Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: Originally Posted By Postal0311: IIRC, there was a time it was being taught by the Suarez crew as "metal on meat" aiming, or something like it. With the older Glocks, I've been fond of canting them and using the corner of the slide like a shotgun vent rib. I don't recall if it was Suarez or someone else who would put tape over students sights so that they would learn to index the gun on target with out being overly reliant on sights. The concept is much more popular among groups that do force on force training like Sims or airsoft, and very unpopular with the groups shooting static targets on the range. What would make it unpopular? Safety concerns in group settings comes to mind Closed minds mostly... because it's a LOT OF FUN |
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Self taught myself that method doing night quals with a 1911 as an MP in the guard. Dark night in a steep ravine range with partly clouds. Damned if my relay didn’t get the moment when the cloud cover obscured the moon. All I could make out was the shadow of the back of the pistol against the pop up dark green targets. Iirc I did better on that portion than on the portion with the flashlight assist. Basically the flashlight wasn’t helping for sighting so I wasn’t really aiming the flashlight as much as focusing on the tombstone shape of the back of the slide. It worked well. Edit for me under those conditions, I used the flashlight to ID the target then let the beam fall and index the slide and shoot. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Good morning ~ It's possible that this 'technique' was perhaps a technique referred to by different names or whatever, instead of being unknown or forgotten. I was also shown this aiming technique many years ago (just not by the 'aiming using back plate' term), due to astigmatism. But then I also came across the video below a few months ago. I had never seen anything like it before & I found it not only quite interesting, but I was able to apply it to what I had already incorporated into my different shooting styles / situations. And so regarding your original post here, I'd actually be curious if you experienced or practiced any of these sight picture techniques or movements in the instruction class that you took... Much of it seems to be similar to what we're all talking about. Glad to hear you are feeling / doing better with your own technique & results after your class though. That's great. edited to add: the first part of the vid talks about domineant eye, but where it gets going on what we're kind of talking about is around the 9min mark Check this out & let me know what you think 👇 "The 95% accuracy secret firearms trainers won't teach"  The 95% accuracy secret firearms trainers won't teach |
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Originally Posted By Dissipator11: Good morning ~ It's possible that this 'technique' was perhaps a technique referred to by different names or whatever, instead of being unknown or forgotten. I was also shown this aiming technique many years ago (just not by the 'aiming using back plate' term), due to astigmatism. But then I also came across the video below a few months ago. I had never seen anything like it before & I found it not only quite interesting, but I was able to apply it to what I had already incorporated into my different shooting styles / situations. And so regarding your original post here, I'd actually be curious if you experienced or practiced any of these sight picture techniques or movements in the instruction class that you took... Much of it seems to be similar to what we're all talking about. Glad to hear you are feeling / doing better with your own technique & results after your class though. That's great. edited to add: the first part of the vid talks about domineant eye, but where it gets going on what we're kind of talking about is around the 9min mark Check this out & let me know what you think 👇 "The 95% accuracy secret firearms trainers won't teach"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY-jhrwZjqATo give a little more context, we were shooting from the 5 yard line during these exercises after being thoroughly warmed up for the day and I hadn't shot pistol at all in a year and a half. Historically, I was trying to get a 90% solid sight picture before squeezing off a round, which like the video you linked demonstrates, is enough. When I say 90% I mean, like they showed, where maybe the front post and rear sight aren't perfectly aligned left to right or top to bottom, and I'm mostly focused on the front sight post, putting that over the target with the rear sights and the target being out of focus to my vision. The breakthrough for me during the class was that it was so much easier to track the "big black square" of the back plate of my pistol (compared to a relatively small front post that could be obscured by the rear sights) that I could follow up much much faster. I'm sure with enough training the front post could be more accurate and just as fast, but for me, I saw immediate significant improvement using the back plate after 20 years of chasing the front sight post. The instructor also demonstrated and explained what he call the guillotine, which was basically just getting the top of the rear sights lined up at the midpoint of the target (imagine chopping the target in half horizontally) and not worrying about the front sight post as much, much like the vid in the link. This was also based on the premise of having solid fundamental kinesthetics in place. Lastly he talking about lining the top of the housing ring of a red dot at the top of the target - I didn't try this as I wasn't using my red dot pistol that day, so no comment there. Conceptually I think all 3 ideas line up with the vid in the link, even if not named the same. |
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Originally Posted By Dissipator11: Check this out & let me know what you think 👇 "The 95% accuracy secret firearms trainers won't teach" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY-jhrwZjqAAqil is a solid instructor. He teaches at TAC-CON. The iron sight deviation drill is taught at the NRA Personal Protection Inside the Home class, and is repeated at several distances to emphasize the ranges for which it is practical. It is basically part of a train up for understanding Flash Sight Picture. I liked the instruction regarding red dots, as I have not seen it done exactly that way before. Looks helpful to students who are new to red dots. |
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This is from Roger Phillips Point Shooting Progression: What is the Point Shooting Progression Concept? Progression from: •Hard focus on front sight •to a flash sight picture •to a Type II focus: line of sight •to Aligning down the top of the slide •to Metal and Meat •to Driving the gun to a Focal Point Situation dictates strategy, strategy dictates tactics, tactics dictate techniques, techniques should not dictate anything. Type II focus: Line of Sight point shooting: Looking through your sights. Hard focus on the threat, while looking through the sights. You will see a fuzzy sight picture Aligning down the top of the slide: Hard focus on the threat, gun up at line of sight, use the top of the slide as a reference Very important skill! Metal and Meat: Situation dependent. Silhouette of pistol surrounded by the meat of the target. Extremely fast technique. Driving the gun to the focal point: No visual input on the gun. The focal point is a visual lock. The bullets go where the eyes go. Aim small, miss small Driving the gun is done with all techniques Geometry of point shooting. Focus on small point on target. Use visual centerline…. Pistol must be beneath dominant eye. Gun must be parallel to ground. Drawing from any position on the clock, pistol must be beneath dominant eye and parallel to the ground during extension. ---------------------------- Essentially there are a variety of techniques for aiming a pistol. Which one you use depends on your situation. If you need to make a 100 yard pistol shot, Hard focus on the front sight is the way to go... if you have to shoot from a retention position, you won't have any visual input on the gun so it's all about geometry and focal point... everything else is for those in between situations. |
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Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: The instructor also demonstrated and explained what he call the guillotine, which was basically just getting the top of the rear sights lined up at the midpoint of the target (imagine chopping the target in half horizontally) and not worrying about the front sight post as much, much like the vid in the link. This was also based on the premise of having solid fundamental kinesthetics in place. Lastly he talking about lining the top of the housing ring of a red dot at the top of the target - I didn't try this as I wasn't using my red dot pistol that day, so no comment there. I haven't seen using the rear notch before. The usual advice for close in is flash sight picture or front sight only. Not bad options, but I found adding point shooting techniques makes your marksmanship much more robust. One example was during a nightvision class having to engage a hostage target with one hand with my pistol under NODS. My pistol had irons... which are useless under NODS... so it was either 1. don't shoot, 2. spray and pray (and hit the hostage), or 3. use point shooting. I used point shooting and the results were identical to the rest of the class who used a red dot for aiming. Those guys with red dots could easily outshoot me with 2 hands, but at ~7 yards with 1 hand it was an even contest. I'll have to try top of the housing ring. |
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Appreciate the added 'context' and sharing more of your experience. I've got a curious question for you now though ~ You mentioned here about your target being out of focus (when doing it your way, focusing on front sight .. Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: I'm mostly focused on the front sight post, putting that over the target with the rear sights and the target being out of focus to my vision. And so I'm curious ... after this, when you had your breakthrough, and when you were using their method of aiming with the backplate; did you by chance notice or check to see if your target changed to being more in focus, (like a little, better than a little, and or fully in focus? I ask this question with respect .. I have a not so great astigmatism, and yet at the same time my eyes are 'mixed ocular dominant' and that causes similar issues for me too. I'm focusing on my target & my front sight. But I'm also with both eyes always open. And I've been shooting this way for a long time. So having learned about focusing on the backplate awhile ago, yet never really using it ~ the concept brought up again brings more interest to me at this time. And if you may have noticed a change in the target being in more in focus with your vision by using the backplate aiming method .. I'd actually like to hear about that if you have the info to share. Thanks ~ |
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Originally Posted By Dissipator11: Appreciate the added 'context' and sharing more of your experience. I've got a curious question for you now though ~ You mentioned here about your target being out of focus (when doing it your way, focusing on front sight .. And so I'm curious ... after this, when you had your breakthrough, and when you were using their method of aiming with the backplate; did you by chance notice or check to see if your target changed to being more in focus, (like a little, better than a little, and or fully in focus? I ask this question with respect .. I have a not so great astigmatism, and yet at the same time my eyes are 'mixed ocular dominant' and that causes similar issues for me too. I'm focusing on my target & my front sight. But I'm also with both eyes always open. And I've been shooting this way for a long time. So having learned about focusing on the backplate awhile ago, yet never really using it ~ the concept brought up again brings more interest to me at this time. And if you may have noticed a change in the target being in more in focus with your vision by using the backplate aiming method .. I'd actually like to hear about that if you have the info to share. Thanks ~ Originally Posted By Dissipator11: Appreciate the added 'context' and sharing more of your experience. I've got a curious question for you now though ~ You mentioned here about your target being out of focus (when doing it your way, focusing on front sight .. Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: I'm mostly focused on the front sight post, putting that over the target with the rear sights and the target being out of focus to my vision. And so I'm curious ... after this, when you had your breakthrough, and when you were using their method of aiming with the backplate; did you by chance notice or check to see if your target changed to being more in focus, (like a little, better than a little, and or fully in focus? I ask this question with respect .. I have a not so great astigmatism, and yet at the same time my eyes are 'mixed ocular dominant' and that causes similar issues for me too. I'm focusing on my target & my front sight. But I'm also with both eyes always open. And I've been shooting this way for a long time. So having learned about focusing on the backplate awhile ago, yet never really using it ~ the concept brought up again brings more interest to me at this time. And if you may have noticed a change in the target being in more in focus with your vision by using the backplate aiming method .. I'd actually like to hear about that if you have the info to share. Thanks ~ I just tested this a bit and it's very distance dependent. I'm still focusing on the target and overlaying the black square over it, so the target is definitely clearer than focusing on the post, but think of what's happening. My non-dominant eye is capturing the image of the target and the dominant is overlaying the black square. My eyes are offset from each other a set distance, so the further a target is away the more visible it is. Pointing at a target 10 yards away I can read letters and see everything. For a target 3 yards away, that non-dominant eye has to focus in much tighter towards the center of the target to basically where the muzzle is, so the target point has almost completely disappeared behind the black square at that range. It's still plenty good enough to know that the black square is completely inside the target silhouette and that the shot will land, but yeah I lose some of the target behind the back of the gun (which would happen using either the front post or back plate method). You can test this easily to see what's going on by keeping both eyes open, aim your pistol using your normal method staying focused on the target (not your sights), then take turns closing just your dominant or non-dominant eye. The different perspectives and distances will show you the two images your brain should be putting together in real time once both eyes are open. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Self taught myself that method doing night quals with a 1911 as an MP in the guard. Dark night in a steep ravine range with partly clouds. Damned if my relay didn’t get the moment when the cloud cover obscured the moon. All I could make out was the shadow of the back of the pistol against the pop up dark green targets. Iirc I did better on that portion than on the portion with the flashlight assist. Basically the flashlight wasn’t helping for sighting so I wasn’t really aiming the flashlight as much as focusing on the tombstone shape of the back of the slide. It worked well. Edit for me under those conditions, I used the flashlight to ID the target then let the beam fall and index the slide and shoot. Shooting in the low-light or dark can be where point shooting really shines. COL Applegate writes about that in Kill or Get Killed. Examples are you are in a shoothouse and you can ID the enemy, but don't have a flashlight. Or if you have a flashlight, but don't need one to ID the enemy and don't want to announce your position with an active flashlight BEFORE you open fire. During a recent night qual we did some of the shooting with only starlight and scoring the targets afterwards made it real obvious who had pistol optics/nightsights/point shooting skills and who had NONE of those things. |
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Good share & well explained. Thank you ~ And I'm on point with everything you wrote, especially in testing different distances. Totally makes sense. Where my issue comes in however is that I'm not right eye dominant, nor left eye dominant ~ I'm mixed eye dominant ... so both eyes are equal, as the brain has no preference, and I can use either .. but that one thing, added to the astigmatism makes it so I can't perform the test in the same way you suggested. And that mixed eye dominance combined with astigmatism causes similar focus issues at different distances when focusing on the front sight (time of day matters too, especially dusk, it becomes more noticeable ~ Over the years I have learned how to train my right eye to BE dominant, but I have to stay conscious of it, and sometimes never know when my left eye will grab the sight before I realize it. And sometimes this affects my vision or focus out past 20-25 feet or other times its the opostite. It's crazy when close range vs. distance can change on me like that, and its the target not totally focused, instead of the sight (as most with astigmatism have some focusing issues on front sight dot or ret dot instead). I would really like my target(s) to be in focus at all distances though, as well as being able continue using my peripherals; So this is where I've been spending more even time. And then after you brought up the backplate aiming method, it got me thinking about all this stuff again. At least now I have some new info to work with & consider, as well as a reminder through your perspective / along with a different approach; and that info will be useful moving forward. Over the years here I've read about a lot of folks chatting about having astigmatisms. But does anyone else reading this thread have mixed eye dominance, or know of anyone else who shoots that has mix eye dominance? I think it's like 20% of the population or less who have mixed eye dominance .. so I'd be curious if anyone who does read this has experience with it, or knows / has heard of someone who shoots having it signing of for now ~ have a good evening |
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Originally Posted By Ironmaker: I tried the "aiming with the backplate" on a stage at a steel match last night, and it did not go well. I ended up having to actually aim with the RDS. Guessing that match was not at fullsize steel silhouettes within 7 yards? |
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Originally Posted By R_S: Guessing that match was not at fullsize steel silhouettes within 7 yards? Originally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: I tried the "aiming with the backplate" on a stage at a steel match last night, and it did not go well. I ended up having to actually aim with the RDS. Guessing that match was not at fullsize steel silhouettes within 7 yards? Correct 
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If you don't have a plan, you can't change it.
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Originally Posted By Dissipator11: Good share & well explained. Thank you ~ And I'm on point with everything you wrote, especially in testing different distances. Totally makes sense. Where my issue comes in however is that I'm not right eye dominant, nor left eye dominant ~ I'm mixed eye dominant ... so both eyes are equal, as the brain has no preference, and I can use either .. but that one thing, added to the astigmatism makes it so I can't perform the test in the same way you suggested. And that mixed eye dominance combined with astigmatism causes similar focus issues at different distances when focusing on the front sight (time of day matters too, especially dusk, it becomes more noticeable ~ Over the years I have learned how to train my right eye to BE dominant, but I have to stay conscious of it, and sometimes never know when my left eye will grab the sight before I realize it. And sometimes this affects my vision or focus out past 20-25 feet or other times its the opostite. It's crazy when close range vs. distance can change on me like that, and its the target not totally focused, instead of the sight (as most with astigmatism have some focusing issues on front sight dot or ret dot instead). I would really like my target(s) to be in focus at all distances though, as well as being able continue using my peripherals; So this is where I've been spending more even time. And then after you brought up the backplate aiming method, it got me thinking about all this stuff again. At least now I have some new info to work with & consider, as well as a reminder through your perspective / along with a different approach; and that info will be useful moving forward. Over the years here I've read about a lot of folks chatting about having astigmatisms. But does anyone else reading this thread have mixed eye dominance, or know of anyone else who shoots that has mix eye dominance? I think it's like 20% of the population or less who have mixed eye dominance .. so I'd be curious if anyone who does read this has experience with it, or knows / has heard of someone who shoots having it signing of for now ~ have a good evening Dude that sounds tough to deal with no matter what aiming method you use… |
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Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Correct Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Originally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: I tried the "aiming with the backplate" on a stage at a steel match last night, and it did not go well. I ended up having to actually aim with the RDS. Guessing that match was not at fullsize steel silhouettes within 7 yards? Correct I wouldn’t suggest trying any new method mid-match, unless that’s the only place and time you can shoot. I want credit for sharing the idea when it goes well and no blame when it doesn’t. 
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Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: I wouldn’t suggest trying any new method mid-match, unless that’s the only place and time you can shoot. I want credit for sharing the idea when it goes well and no blame when it doesn’t. Originally Posted By Doz_TCC: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Originally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: I tried the "aiming with the backplate" on a stage at a steel match last night, and it did not go well. I ended up having to actually aim with the RDS. Guessing that match was not at fullsize steel silhouettes within 7 yards? Correct I wouldn’t suggest trying any new method mid-match, unless that’s the only place and time you can shoot. I want credit for sharing the idea when it goes well and no blame when it doesn’t. Ha!! This is the perfect match to try this. It’s a weekly steel match, cheap to shoot, and a lot of fun. And even though the scores are posted, they don’t really matter. |
If you don't have a plan, you can't change it.