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Posted: 12/12/2020 10:40:30 AM EDT
What might be considered the minimum acceptable accuracy requirement for a rifle to be used for PRS matches?
I've shot a few long range field course matches, but not a PRS sanctioned match, and for those that I've shot in, 1MOA is entirely adequate. I believe even an FTR NRA match would only require just under 1 MOA to hit the X ring, which I believe is smaller than most PRS targets. |
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[Last Edit: ballisticxlr]
[#1]
Lots of people will say 1moa. Personally, if you're not under .75moa you're going to have a harder time than you need to have. My PRS guns run .5-.75moa 5-shot groups which allows me to place in the top 10 very often. The tighter the better but once you're popping 3/4 minute groups there are other places you can pay attention to and get more gains than with fiddling with ammo over .1moa.
NOTE: EVERY single answer you'll get will be the opinion and experience of 1 person, not gospel. PRS is about shooting from shitty positions (to trivialize it a bit) so the snugger your rifle groups, the more shitty your position can be. |
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[#2]
You can shoot a 1 MOA rifle in PRS and I would say that is the bare minimum. I would like mine closer to 1/2 MOA and better as like mentioned you will have some movement so the tighter the rifle shoots the better and the misses are on the shooter and wind. You just want to cut down the amount the rifle effects the whole picture.
That said don't let a 1 MOA rifle keep you from going and shooting. There will be a lot to learn for a new shooter anyways and the small rifle accuracy difference won't add up to much. More important to have a DBM with mags holding at least 10 rounds and a good bag like a game changer. |
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[#3]
Oh yeah, a bean bag chair changes everything.
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"And then I woke up."
"You can make O6 or keep your integrity.” -Sylvan |
[#4]
My PRS rifle shoots .5 to .75 consistently......I on the other hand shoot from 1 MOA to somewhere out in orbit from the crap they expect you to shoot off of... My point?...Get your rifle and load shooting at least 3/4 moa..Less the better...Than practice shooting off a makeshift wobbly barricade built out of beat to shit 2 X 4's
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Trophy Hunter & Wilderness Hunter and Angler
WY, USA
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[#5]
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69: My PRS rifle shoots .5 to .75 consistently......I on the other hand shoot from 1 MOA to somewhere out in orbit from the crap they expect you to shoot off of... My point?...Get your rifle and load shooting at least 3/4 moa..Less the better...Than practice shooting off a makeshift wobbly barricade built out of beat to shit 2 X 4's View Quote My PRS bolt gun is half MOA gun and my PRS gas gun just squeaking by under MOA. I'm sure the bolt gun could do a little better, but aside from normal precision reloading in neck skimmed Lapua brass, I have no interest in making reloading anymore tedious by doing bench rest stuff. |
A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[#6]
Honestly 1 MOA would be fine and its wind reading thats going to hurt. I prefer closer to .5, and I'm better at shooting positionally than I am laying down and shooting groups. There typically aren't tons of targets that are going to be impossible with a 1MOA gun.
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I got it at the Costco.
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[#7]
Just to follow up on a different point in the OP; NRA F-class targets have a 1/2 MOA X-ring. The guys winning at the top levels are looking for 1/4 MOA of elevation from their rifle/ammo combos.
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On the day shift at the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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[#8]
This will sound stupid, but to me it seems like the real issue is the consistency of the 1 MOA rifle.
It is fine if the rifle is a 1 MOA gun, but what seems to hurt folks is when the whole system, especially the ammo really isn’t 1 MOA. It is common for a shooter to fire numerous 1 MOA groups, but when all super imposed, it is really 3-5 MOA. This often has to do with reloading concentricity and velocity Sd. |
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[#9]
All of the match rifles I run are at least 3/4moa with most being closer to .5moa. A 1moa gun/shooter will still be competitive in PRS though. Outside of a few targets (KYL/small diamonds/prairie dogs at distance) a true 1moa rifle/system can hit just about anything a MD throws out there. Reading the wind and building your position will cost you far more points than shaving off .25moa from groups when you’re just getting started.
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[#10]
All these dudes posting are correct. Will an MOA rifle work? Of course. Will a half MOA rifle work better? Depends...all of it on you.
I would venture to guess that, barring any lemons and one-offs, the majority of rifle manufacturers are making bolt rifles that will shoot under a minute with the right ammo and marksman. I started out in the "precision" rifle shooting sports with two Savages, one in .223 and one in .308. They were both very accurate rifles. The .223 was still one of the most accurate factory bolt rifles I have personally observed and it was in a shitty, plastic Savage "Accustock" and had the Savage Accutrigger. |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#11]
1 moa would be fine. More important is how stable of a position you can get into and how many bean bags you can carry.
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I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
OH, USA
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[#12]
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Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#13]
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I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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Trophy Hunter & Wilderness Hunter and Angler
WY, USA
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[#14]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Group from my PRS rifle this weekend 300 yds https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57471/35757A93-E874-4639-A5AC-73C3F03F51F8_png-1759647.JPG View Quote What your rifle and load specs? |
A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[#15]
My best finish in a 2 day PRS match was 10th out of 150+.
I took a risk by trying to squeeze one more match out of my 6mm Creedmoor barrel. On sight in day, it shot 2 MOA. Was too late to change anything so I ran with it. Not saying 2 MOA is ideal, but the accuracy of the rifle is far from the most important factor. I did luck out in that it was a more positional match and less prone. |
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I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
OH, USA
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[#16]
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght: I've got you down for zero impacts, shooter. What your rifle and load specs? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Group from my PRS rifle this weekend 300 yds https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57471/35757A93-E874-4639-A5AC-73C3F03F51F8_png-1759647.JPG What your rifle and load specs? "Zero impacts" isn't that the truth. Rifle built by Dresden Gun Works, APR action. Unfortunately neither are available anymore, DGW closed due to some family issues and Alamo's foray into private label actions didn't last long. https://aprifles.com/products/apr-gen-2 That load was my hunting load, 130 Gamechanger, 44.8 StaBall and Hornady brass (believe it or not). |
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
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[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#17]
Chambered in 6mm Creedmoor, is my RPR a good PRS rifle?
Do many folks use the RPR? Also - is my 14x Vortex Diamondback scope (MOA) good enough? |
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[#18]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: Chambered in 6mm Creedmoor, is my RPR a good PRS rifle? Do many folks use the RPR? Also - is my 14x Vortex Diamondback scope (MOA) good enough? View Quote I'm not sure which scope you have as I don't see a 1rx Diamondback listed. If it has a matching ranging eticle and turrets, it will work for a while. I usually recommend a Viper PST as a minimum for PRS style matches. I have seen dozens of lesser scopes fail internally from dialing so much at matches. It's happened to me with a Riton Mod 7 4-32X56IR. Most guys want at least 25x because the targets can get kind of small on stages such as "Know your limits" style stages. I have used a 2.5x10 on my Mk12 to shoot a few matches, and did well, but more magnification is idealmMost people use mil mil scopes at matches, so you will find it easier to convert to milradians so you speak the same language. No matter what, though, you want your turrets and reticle to match. |
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A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[#19]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: Chambered in 6mm Creedmoor, is my RPR a good PRS rifle? Do many folks use the RPR? Also - is my 14x Vortex Diamondback scope (MOA) good enough? View Quote Rifle is fine. A good amount of people use them. Is the scope FFP? If not it will hinder you some but as long as it tracks it's workable. Go try a one day match. |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[Last Edit: RePp]
[#21]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn’t intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? View Quote MOA or MIL makes no difference. Long as your scope tracks accurately it should be fine. Armageddon game changer bag is the only bag I use. I refuse to pack around more than one. A tripod with a pair of binos on them is also extremely handy to have for spotting impacts for other shooters and doing target ID. Look on practiscore for a match and go start burning out barrels. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[#22]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn’t intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? View Quote As long as the scope tracks that will do well to get your feet wet. Moa is fine and most use mils so if looking for a wind call just be ready to do a little conversion. Easy round off way is 3.5 moa to a Mil. So if they say they held .5 mils of wind that would be about 1.75 moa. Lots of matches in lower VA in Pigg River and VPRC at the VIR. Also down at Frontline in Warenton NC. Not sure what Peacemaker has in store after being sold this year so you can watch that. Also some matches up in PA this year. One other thing if you have a .22 you can get in with the Mid Atlantic Rimfire series and get some good centerfire practice. A bunch of matches for it including down at Northern Virginia Gun Club near King George. |
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[#23]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn't intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? View Quote |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn't intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? View Quote I carry a schmedium game changer and a tab gear rear bag. I loathe carrying around a bunch of crap I "might" need, and would rather shoot with two bags than carrying around a pump pillow, two game changers, a fortune cookie, etc. Some of that gets ridiculous with some Shooters. I also carry a tripod with binos, and sometimes have my MIL spotter with me depending on the match. Most guys are pretty cool with you using their gear, including tripods, so I wouldn't rush out to get a RRS. You should have binos, though. Sign up for PracticeScore and see what matches are in your area. Another good tool, although I hope they convert over to MeWe or something else soon, are Facebook groups, especially for your area. |
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A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#25]
Personally, I think a big part of it is psychological.
If you know your gun is capable of tiny little cloverleaf or one-hole groups at 100yds, it gives you more confidence in the longer range shots. If your best groups are around 1 MOA at 100, you're going to start doubting your equipment as the distance increases. When doubt creeps in, it throws off your whole game. You definitely want to be 100% confident that YOU are the limiting factor in the whole equation. It also removes the likelihood that you'll blame your gear for your own screw ups. "Oh that miss at 800yds was probably the gun. It never has grouped quite like I want..." |
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Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#26]
Originally Posted By Cypher214: Personally, I think a big part of it is psychological. If you know your gun is capable of tiny little cloverleaf or one-hole groups at 100yds, it gives you more confidence in the longer range shots. If your best groups are around 1 MOA at 100, you're going to start doubting your equipment as the distance increases. When doubt creeps in, it throws off your whole game. View Quote Wait a second you guys don’t doubt yourself? Shit. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[#27]
Originally Posted By RePp: Wait a second you guys don't doubt yourself? Shit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RePp: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Personally, I think a big part of it is psychological. If you know your gun is capable of tiny little cloverleaf or one-hole groups at 100yds, it gives you more confidence in the longer range shots. If your best groups are around 1 MOA at 100, you're going to start doubting your equipment as the distance increases. When doubt creeps in, it throws off your whole game. Wait a second you guys don't doubt yourself? Shit. Doubting yourself is fine. Doubting your equipment is just one more factor that shouldn't be a part of it. |
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Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#28]
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I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[Last Edit: Skg_Mre_Lght]
[#29]
Originally Posted By Cypher214: Doubting yourself is fine. Doubting your equipment is just one more factor that shouldn't be a part of it. View Quote When I started out I went through a ton of cheaper optics, Remington actions, Savage, gas guns, etc. I had troubles with every single one of them. Having a family and other passions, bills, etc, I tried to save money. I could have a stable of custom rifles with tier one glass by now if I hadn't tried to cheap out. I lost alot of points in matches early on because I doubted my equipment. Psychological defeatism is a real thing. |
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A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[#30]
Only did PRS once so this is very much a noob talking out of his ass - but in my experience, the inherent accuracy of the rifle is pretty much the least of your worries in any shooting sport that you're not already in the top 25% grouping. Knowing your zero and your drop, and your ability to shoot from goofy positions, has far more value, than how tight it shoots. In similar long-distance multigun shoots, I've taken 3 MOA combat rifles and outshot 75%+ of the people there, because I knew my zero and my drops very well.
At least, at first. If your goal is to finish in top half and learn the game; then focus on that. If your goal is to win the PRS match, then yea, it starts to matter; but I rather doubt if that's a reasonable goal if you're at the stage of asking this question. |
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[#31]
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[#32]
Originally Posted By RePp: I’ve never used a savage so never had to doubt my shit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RePp: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Doubting yourself is fine. Doubting your equipment is just one more factor that shouldn't be a part of it. I’ve never used a savage so never had to doubt my shit. Ha! Competition smack-talk; I love it!! In USPSA we used to rib each other constantly- especially when someone really blew a whole stage (and tried making excuses). We’d all agree it must have been “that loose NUT behind the trigger.” It’s all in good fun. I think I’m going to like PRS. |
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[#33]
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght: Yeah I haven't used one of those, but it looks like it has everything you need need to get started. Make sure it tracks well before a match. I carry a schmedium game changer and a tab gear rear bag. I loathe carrying around a bunch of crap I "might" need, and would rather shoot with two bags than carrying around a pump pillow, two game changers, a fortune cookie, etc. Some of that gets ridiculous with some Shooters. I also carry a tripod with binos, and sometimes have my MIL spotter with me depending on the match. Most guys are pretty cool with you using their gear, including tripods, so I wouldn't rush out to get a RRS. You should have binos, though. Sign up for PracticeScore and see what matches are in your area. Another good tool, although I hope they convert over to MeWe or something else soon, are Facebook groups, especially for your area. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght: Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn't intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? I carry a schmedium game changer and a tab gear rear bag. I loathe carrying around a bunch of crap I "might" need, and would rather shoot with two bags than carrying around a pump pillow, two game changers, a fortune cookie, etc. Some of that gets ridiculous with some Shooters. I also carry a tripod with binos, and sometimes have my MIL spotter with me depending on the match. Most guys are pretty cool with you using their gear, including tripods, so I wouldn't rush out to get a RRS. You should have binos, though. Sign up for PracticeScore and see what matches are in your area. Another good tool, although I hope they convert over to MeWe or something else soon, are Facebook groups, especially for your area. Thanks again SKg! I’m getting the bare essentials together for a match in the Spring (thanks to your advice). One more Q.: - does anyone use a suppressor in PRS? |
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Sarcasm is an art and I'm painting my master piece
WA, USA
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[#34]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: Thanks again SKg! I’m getting the bare essentials together for a match in the Spring (thanks to your advice). One more Q.: - does anyone use a suppressor in PRS? View Quote People do but they’re pointless. Your going to be wearing ear pro anyways might as well have a brake. |
I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a burmese python, and the mind of a fucking scientist.
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[#35]
Originally Posted By RePp: People do but they're pointless. Your going to be wearing ear pro anyways might as well have a brake. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RePp: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Thanks again SKg! I'm getting the bare essentials together for a match in the Spring (thanks to your advice). One more Q.: - does anyone use a suppressor in PRS? People do but they're pointless. Your going to be wearing ear pro anyways might as well have a brake. Yeah, unless it's a suppressed shoot that requires it, leave the can at home. A quality brake does everything better than a can. Most everyone I shoot with has pretty much stopped using suppressors during matches with a few exceptions. |
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A real 1 MOA All Day shooter.
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[Last Edit: MS556]
[#36]
Originally Posted By Dominion21: @Rob01 @Skg_Mre_Lght Thanks! I appreciate the responses; I know my biggest step is the 1st one: actually shooting a competition. Luckily - I am a former USPSA match director so that aspect doesn’t intimidate me (not too much anyway). But I also want to be decently prepared. Current scope is a 4-16x 44 Vortex DiamondBack, FFP with the MOA reticle (I understand most PRS guys use MILS instead of MOA). I think I bought it from D&H on sale last year. Ammo plan is to reload the Hornady brass I have with all the ELD-x 108s I bought a while back, loaded over enough H4350 to get to about 3000fps. I think I have 3 ten round magazines. I need an economical set of bags. Not the best; hopefully not the worst for PRS. https://www.gilbertsguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/308x308/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vortex_dbk10026.jpg I think the shoots here in the Mid-Atlantic area (I live near DC) are mostly under 1000 yards. Do you know of a good 1st match to try around here to get my feet wet? View Quote Regular Diamondbacks are Philippine glass. The Diamondback Tactical line has inferior Chinese glass. I have the same scope, but in the 6-24x50 version, FFP MOA. The glass is fine to about 300 yards but image degrades rapidly after that. Its fine for my .22LR precision use, but you may be disappointed at longer PRS distances. Tracking is decent. Side focus adjustment is rough and uneven, just ok. ERBC-2 tree reticle is quite good for the price point. |
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[#37]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Group from my PRS rifle this weekend 300 yds https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57471/35757A93-E874-4639-A5AC-73C3F03F51F8_png-1759647.JPG View Quote I'm guessing you cursed that cold bore shot |
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