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Posted: 12/20/2017 4:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bendigo78]
I've got an old DPMS SASS sitting in the safe that's ready to be reborn in 6.5 Creedmoor. It's lived a neglected lonely life in the far dark corner of the safe after being rebarreled with a Compass Lake finished 308 barrel that never lived up to its $500 price tag or could even run with the factory barrel. So I moved on to .260 Remington.
I've scoured Arfcom and the MOA all day threads looking for a site consensus on the most accurate 6.5 Creedmoor barrel to no avail. Parameters. Will be shot mostly with direct thread suppressor. It will have adjustable gas. 140grn + pills. Would prefer hbar but would consider bigger for increased accuracy. Pretty much settled on 20" but would entertain reasons for 18 or 22. How much difference does the +2" gas make? Price range $400-500. If I can pull the extra $400 together before I'm ready to order, I'll be getting the Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel or a Krieger. So far the list of manufacturers and series are. Faxon Match Have great site support and people recommend them but rarely have I seen people post their groups. BA Premium People seem to like these and post good groups. I found them on sale for $209. I'll probably end up with a .308 one of these to play with on a PA10 Shilen Select I've never seen a bad shilen barrel. Don't see a 20" though Odin Works Proof Research Stainless. Criterion Rainer match Please post your experiences and groups with your 6.5 CM. I'll update it with what I buy and post groups. May take a while though Edit** the place that had the BA for 30% off had an additional 10% off for 6.5 creedmoor blowout and free shipping. So there's a premium 20" heavy barrel on its way for a whole $184 shipped. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2017 10:10:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By bendigo78:
I've got an old DPMS SASS sitting in the safe that's ready to be reborn in 6.5 Creedmoor. It's lived a neglected lonely life in the far dark corner of the safe after being rebarreled with a Compass Lake finished 308 barrel that never lived up to its $500 price tag or could even run with the factory barrel. So I moved on to .260 Remington. I've scoured Arfcom and the MOA all day threads looking for a site consensus on the most accurate 6.5 Creedmoor barrel to no avail. Parameters. Will be shot mostly with direct thread suppressor. It will have adjustable gas. 140grn + pills. Would prefer hbar but would consider bigger for increased accuracy. Pretty much settled on 20" but would entertain reasons for 18 or 22. How much difference does the +2" gas make? Price range $400-500. If I can pull the extra $400 together before I'm ready to order, I'll be getting the Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel or a Krieger. So far the list of manufacturers and series are. Faxon Match Have great site support and people recommend them but rarely have I seen people post their groups. BA Premium People seem to like these and post good groups. I found them on sale for $209. I'll probably end up with a .308 one of these to play with on a PA10 Shilen Select I've never seen a bad shilen barrel. Don't see a 20" though Odin Works Proof Research Stainless. Criterion Rainer match Please post your experiences and groups with your 6.5 CM. I'll update it with what I buy and post groups. May take a while though Edit** the place that had the BA for 30% off had an additional 10% off for 6.5 creedmoor blowout and free shipping. So there's a premium 20" heavy barrel on its way for a whole $184 shipped. |
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Posted: 12/21/2017 10:25:41 PM EDT
[#2]
A good accurate AR-10/large frame AR barrel is as much about the quality of the barrel as it is the guy doing the chambering and fitting.
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Posted: 12/22/2017 12:03:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bendigo78]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jfk: Primary Arms had a sale two weeks ago on the Ballistic Advantage. I picked up the heavy barrel (24" SS ) in 6.5 with free shipping for $199. It will go on a retrofitted Armalite AR10 with an Aero BCG this Spring. I also have blanks from Green Mountain and X-Caliber. Hopefully I can do a comparison. For the money, it was a good buy. If price was not an issue, I'd try Krieger and Criterion with Krieger being my first choice. Post your results! |
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Posted: 12/22/2017 5:21:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Torchy]
[#4]
I'm happy with mine. So far have really only tried out the 140 SMK's. They have a really deep ogive compared to a lot of the other offerings. Have 140 eldm's, Berger 140 long range and SMK 142's all loaded up to try next week.
Ocw testing 
Includes cold bore/first round of the day shot  All rounds on left side were me dialing in a new 30 MOA mount. The right side was .51 moa (red circle) and .37 MOA but that one didn't really count because 3 and all 
Dt can 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2017 8:44:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I have the proof barrel. It will shoot .2's and .3's. Sometimes .1's Its great.
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Posted: 12/25/2017 11:00:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Is that a stainless one or a cf wrapped?
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/26/2017 10:50:16 AM EDT
[#7]
CF. I hear the stainless shoots identically. I wish pics were easy here and I would post some.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/26/2017 8:12:02 PM EDT
[#8]
In a gas gun I would lean towards 123 or 130gn bullets. I tried 142s and they just used up too much space in the case that I could have used for powder.
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Posted: 12/26/2017 8:27:13 PM EDT
[#9]
The 142 get sat in the case more shallow than 140's. Also you can run ASC mags and get roughly .045" more length. They work flawless.
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Posted: 12/26/2017 10:31:15 PM EDT
[#10]
What's your OAL with which bullet?
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Posted: 1/1/2018 8:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Torchy]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bendigo78:
What's your OAL with which bullet? SMK 142's = 2.840 COAL with perfect feeding Berger 140's = 2.844 COAL, they have a very short OGIVE ELD-M 140"s = 2.844 COAL with an OGIVE somewhere between the Bergers and SMK 142 So I went out and tried new loads with new bullets to see how they shot. This is what I came up with. Some of the data 
Really liking the SMK142's. .63MOA counting the flyer 
.22 MOA if I don't count the flyer. I'd probably stick with this charge which yielded 2570FPS average. SD of 4 so pretty dang good. 
Berger 140's weren't too hot for me. I think it's due to their jump. 
I was feeling the ELD-M's. These might be worth taking another look at. .47MOA and I think that other group above it was a little better. 
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Posted: 1/1/2018 8:20:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jfk:
Primary Arms had a sale two weeks ago on the Ballistic Advantage. I picked up the heavy barrel (24" SS ) in 6.5 with free shipping for $199. It will go on a retrofitted Armalite AR10 with an Aero BCG this Spring. I also have blanks from Green Mountain and X-Caliber. Hopefully I can do a comparison. For the money, it was a good buy. If price was not an issue, I'd try Krieger and Criterion with Krieger being my first choice. |
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Posted: 1/3/2018 6:21:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I got the ba premium 20" 6.5 trued and glued yesterday. Polished up all the bits and pieces. Ordered dies today. Might be ready for a range report in a couple weeks.
When ba says heavy profile they aren't kidding. This thing is a pound heavier compared to the old hbar. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:30:54 PM EDT
[#14]
First group with the 20" BA premium. Things went down hill after this. I'm blaming that on loose rings but we'll see.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/31/2018 10:33:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#15]
I am not sure yet... but the 6.5 seems to foul ( powder wise ) more then the .308 does.
So while it should go without saying, Be sure to give it a good cleaning....prior to more groups. |
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Posted: 1/31/2018 10:55:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bendigo78]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
I am not sure yet... but the 6.5 seems to foul ( powder wise ) more then the .308 does. So while it should go without saying, Be sure to give it a good cleaning....prior to more groups. 
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Posted: 1/31/2018 11:55:02 PM EDT
[#17]
A loose brake will screw things up.
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Posted: 7/23/2018 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#18]
I've been working on load development and fighting the barrel. This weekend I figured out that the throat area fouls very quickly. Groups start at 1/2" or smaller and the 6th group are pushing 3". When cleaned, the throat is very tight until it gets clean. Also velocity continually increases as more rounds are fired.
First group.  Attached File6th  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/23/2018 1:21:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Criterion 22" Hybrid contour, SS... upper receiver face trued, and barrel Loctite'd 609 in place.
10rds, 100yds , benched , scoped bagged front and squeeze rear.... 10rds, rapid'ish fire, no cool down, Hornady 140gr Bulk American Hunter. ( And I don't shoot like this every day... the pictured group is from the first group of the day... IE freshly cleaned barrel ) I flubbed the 10th shot.... rookie move, to excited about the first 9 shoots... group witnessed by 2 RO's at the range. 
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Posted: 7/23/2018 1:27:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#20]
Even my PSA 20" SS PA65 upper from the factory shot quite a few 5rd factory loads SubMOA... and did even better after lapping / truing the upper receiver face and loctiting in the barrel.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PSA-PA10-GenII-lower-w-PA-65-review-START-at-the-beginning-again-UPDATED-with-Tn-G-results-/301-285762/ |
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Posted: 7/23/2018 2:30:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Also... you might check to see if there is a burr at the gas port hole ... on the inside.
My new BA / DSG Arms 22" 6.5CM barrel had a heck of a one. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2018 2:52:01 PM EDT
[#22]
The BA 22” has impressed me.
15 in just a few minutes the other week. Bipod, rear squeeze bag...pulled some shots due to brass rolling up against my arm (hate benches!!!), but still decent by most standards. 
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Posted: 7/23/2018 2:57:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Damn. I said I would never own a semi 6.5 Creedmoor. This thread may just change my mind.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2018 3:06:19 PM EDT
[#24]
I have my old posts here somewhere from My Rainier Arms 6.5 CM. Had a 22 inch fluted Rainier ultra Match barrel easily sub moa.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2018 4:13:42 PM EDT
[#25]
No pictures but I have a 24 inch X Caliber that can put five in a very tight hole. I use 130 Berger Hybrid bullets and IMR 4451.
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Posted: 7/23/2018 4:33:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#26]
@SuperJLarge... I lay a old towel on the bench by my trigger forearm.. semi messily so the brass can't roll into my arm.
And I hang an old baseball cap off of the scope top turret to help "funnel" the brass onto the towel.... be advised.. the inside of the BB cap will get thrashed with expelling gases from the ejection port. That BB cap and towel remains in the shooting rest bag .... with all the associated goodies for shooting off the bench.. It sure helps cut down on the brass chasing... Works great after it is sighted in and the turrets are GTG. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2018 5:08:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
@SuperJLarge... I lay a old towel on the bench by my trigger forearm.. semi messily so the brass can't roll into my arm. And I hang an old baseball cap off of the scope top turret to help "funnel" the brass onto the towel.... be advised.. the inside of the BB cap will get thrashed with expelling gases from the ejection port. That BB cap and towel remains in the shooting rest bag .... with all the associated goodies for shooting off the bench.. It sure helps cut down on the brass chasing... Works great after it is sighted in and the turrets are GTG. |
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Posted: 7/24/2018 11:57:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Also... you might check to see if there is a burr at the gas port hole ... on the inside. My new BA / DSG Arms 22" 6.5CM barrel had a heck of a one. I really believe the issue is in the throat/lead area. The velocity jumps noticeably every round of a group. Also there is a member here with a crazy nice bore scope that had a post comparing BA, larue, and Krieger throats and the BA was terrible. When cleaning, you can barely get the patch started in that throat area and after a while you can tell a big difference. I know I can feel the gas port when running a patch through it but can't tell if the resistance changes as I clean. Both times I've taken it out with a clean bore the first group was sub 1/2", the second opens to 3/4ish", and it continues to go downhill like that till it's shooting 3-4". I've brought it out cold with a dirty bore and the groups still suck so I know it's not a thermal issue. My dumbass has been smashing my head into the shooting bench while doing load development questioning my bullets, brass, powder, and shooting ability. I loaded a batch of one load last night. I'll stick to shooting those untill this barrel starts shooting consistantly before I do anymore load development. This barrel may be a candidate for a fire lapping kit. |
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Posted: 7/27/2018 12:52:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Yeah. I’ve used the ball cap trick before, but I didn’t plan my trip very well on that day. A poster on SH didn’t believe that a sub moa 10 shot group could be fired at will from a large frame gasser. I think his wording was “Not, I did it once before, but rather, I’ll do it right now”, so I headed to the range. I’d forgotten that the range has plexiglass partitions, so the empty cases were coming back at me. I’ve got a few interesting scars in the shape of cartridges on my arm from that day. |
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Posted: 7/27/2018 1:15:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#30]
Bfoosh, Do you just feel the gas port burr? with a cleaning rod? How'd you fix it?
I felt it with the VFG Bore Cleaning Pellets...then saw the snagged felt, readily from the breach, ...and looked at it with the Lyman Bore Cam I was able to blow out the rather large chunk of felt... I am hoping the burr shoots out.... because if it doesn't, I am going to have some awesome photos of nicked bullets , spinning lead out of the jacket torn open by the burr. I really believe the issue is in the throat/lead area. The velocity jumps noticeably every round of a group. Also there is a member here with a crazy nice bore scope that had a post comparing BA, larue, and Krieger throats and the BA was terrible. My BA / DSG Arms barrels throat was beautiful, as well as the leade. So nice that I kept thinking .. if that f'in burr doesn't come out, I'm gonna be bummed .. because the rest of the barrel is good looking.. clear out the the rifling at the muzzle When cleaning, you can barely get the patch started in that throat area and after a while you can tell a big difference. I know I can feel the gas port when running a patch through it but can't tell if the resistance changes as I clean. I don't remember if you mentioned how many rds through it ? Sure sounds like a build up at the chamber end. I'd try some JB bore cleaner and Kroil on a snug fitting patch... Kroil first, allow to soak for a while... then JB and Kroil together on a patch and scrub. Both times I've taken it out with a clean bore the first group was sub 1/2", the second opens to 3/4ish", and it continues to go downhill like that till it's shooting 3-4". I've brought it out cold with a dirty bore and the groups still suck so I know it's not a thermal issue. This may sound silly... but double check odd things, ejection door pin not touching / in firm contact with FF tube, FF tube just slightly away from the upper receiver , gas tube freely allowed into to gas key ( no sticky / or even slight binding ), gas block not against / touching any barrel shoulder My dumbass has been smashing my head into the shooting bench while doing load development questioning my bullets, brass, powder, and shooting ability. I loaded a batch of one load last night. I'll stick to shooting those untill this barrel starts shooting consistantly before I do anymore load development. This barrel may be a candidate for a fire lapping kit. Fire lapping would be a "Last Ditch" option for me. I would scrub the heck out of it with the JB and Kroil first.... Another promising 10rd group with the AG.. I pulled the 2 fliers.... PSA PA65 20" HBAR, "TnG'd "100yds, " BSBf+r" 
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Posted: 7/27/2018 1:24:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: m4hk33]
[#31]
20 inch LMT MWS shooting 130gr American Gunner. Nice little clover with a flyer, might have 30 rounds through it but i really like the way it performs right out of the box. Will do some load development for it once i get back into the country but for now, i am totally happy with the American gunner
if your looking for a barrel its hard to go wrong with Bartlien and Krieger, they are a little pricey and heavy but they are Very Consistent. as noticed in thread there are alot of good barrels out there, I would have no picking up one of the cheaper SS barrels to give a try. 
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Posted: 7/27/2018 1:50:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33:
20 inch LMT MWS shooting 130gr American Gunner. Nice little clover with a flyer, might have 30 rounds through it but i really like the way it performs right out of the box. Will do some load development for it once i get back into the country but for now, i am totally happy with the American gunner if your looking for a barrel its hard to go wrong with Bartlien and Krieger, they are a little pricey and heavy but they are Very Consistent. as noticed in thread there are alot of good barrels out there, I would have no picking up one of the cheaper SS barrels to give a try. https://preview.ibb.co/kXpkHm/20171121_120740.jpg https://preview.ibb.co/g66e4b/20171130_140319.jpg Just in case you ( and everyone else ) didn't know... Hornady sells the 140gr AG in 200rd bulk plastic cans... for $140 / 200rds... I just bought some , shipping was free ( I don't know why ) https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Hornady-American-Gunner-Bulk-Rifle-Ammo/productDetail/Rifle-Ammunition/prod99999043934/cat100114 |
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Posted: 7/27/2018 4:58:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Nice,
Appreciate it, while i gennerally perfer an AMAX/ELD-X bullet, I was really impressed by how the American Gunner shot how has the hornady Brass been holding up for those that have reloaded it |
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Posted: 7/27/2018 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#34]
bfoosh, The barrels got something like 150 rounds through it now. I've attacked it 3 times now with my 17 year old tub of jb bore paste. If the throat/lead is abnormally rough (which apparently it is) or heaven forbid has a deep machining mark, the JB is too mild to be of much help. JB is great for assisting in break in and cleaning but we're way past that. Could the barrel come around with a strict shooting and cleaning regimen? Maybe, but how many 100s of rounds and hours of cleaning will it take? The answer is more than I'm willing to wager.
I'd check the small stuff if I was having flyers or inconsistant group sizes. Not the linear progression I'm seeing. It goes from 1/2" groups to softball sized shotgun patterns in around 40 rounds. I'd bet you a dollar that the next group out of it after I cleaned it is back to 1/2". It's difficult to find someone that's ruined a barrel with fire lapping but you can find lots of competitive shooters that talk about how it's helped. The barrel wants to shoot and shows amazing potential. If it didn't, it would go back to the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 7/29/2018 2:23:20 PM EDT
[#35]
I am still curious if this is a more common issue after it warms up.
I agree that it is very odd to have groups enlarge so fast after firing. Maybe a local gunsmith or other shooter has a bore scope you could look through ? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/29/2018 8:54:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Either have someone local check it out, or contact BA and see if you should pull it and send it in for inspection.
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Posted: 7/29/2018 9:34:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I would wager there's a dimensional issue with the bore.
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Posted: 7/29/2018 10:56:57 PM EDT
[#38]
It could be a problem with the bore but I've never seen a rifle shoot such small groups with a bad barrel. The bad groups aren't just a couple fliers. All 5 rounds migrate away from each other in such a linear progression.
The reason I dont believe its thermal is that between shooting groups, I've put the rifle in the basement, went and ate lunch and came back to shoot more groups and the group size didn't change. I also took it to the range without cleaning once and the groups started out bad and stayed bad. The progression of group size getting bigger and number of rounds since a clean bore are almost identical in the two incidents. The mistake I made was not doing a break in procedure and going straight to load development. I should of stuck to one load and cleaning routine. |
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Posted: 7/29/2018 11:29:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bendigo78: The mistake I made was not doing a break in procedure and going straight to load development. I should of stuck to one load and cleaning routine. Some barrels just hate to be dirty. But send it back if you're not satisfied with it. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 11:29:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:
That's really unnecessary with a good barrel. I picked up 1500 pieces of brass, some dies, and had piles of primers, bullets, and powder laying around from the current long range .260. The rifle runs very well. Brass ejects consistently without dents or scratches. The new small firing pin bolt has perfect concentric wear on the lugs. I added an adjustable SA GB, tungston weights, and a flat heavy recoil spring. I got the Final Finish bullets last week and worked up an abbreviated sequence of 20 rounds to run through it with a cleaning between each to give the bullets fresh steel to work on. If that fails to work I'll back it down to the more aggressive bullets and do a second run on it. About 20 years ago I ran a full 50 round Final finish kit through a NIB Savage police rifle. You could feel the difference in the smoothness of the barrel every time you cleaned it. It felt like a hand lapped premium barrel when it was over and I don't think I had to clean it again before I sold a couple years later. This barrel will turn a corner eventually where the velocity is more consistent and it doesn't foul out as quickly. I just hope it's still accurate when it does. I'll keep you guys updated. |
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Posted: 7/31/2018 5:33:07 PM EDT
[#41]
If you go with Odin Works, use my coupon code AP2020 to get 10% off your entire order.
They just got in their 22" 6.5Creedmoor barrels with the +2" XL gas system. |
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Posted: 8/4/2018 9:28:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Real25WSSM:
If you go with Odin Works, use my coupon code AP2020 to get 10% off your entire order. They just got in their 22" 6.5Creedmoor barrels with the +2" XL gas system. |
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Posted: 8/7/2018 10:57:46 AM EDT
[#43]
No groups to post, but I cleaned the PRS barricade skills stage in 64 seconds at match this weekend. Does that count?
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OK, USA
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Posted: 8/7/2018 10:32:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: doty_soty]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:
A loose brake will screw things up.  Once everything has been set back up, it shot just as good as it had been. Loose brakes will fuck up precision. |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 2:41:50 PM EDT
[#45]
I only have 1 6.5C AR, on the right. Wilson Recon Tactical 18".
 And I really hope I can keep groups like this up. And stretch the distance. 
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