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Posted: 12/5/2020 11:13:26 AM EDT
I understand finding an OGIVE, but how does one find it when you have a magazine restriction on top of it?
Do you find the max allowed mag length, find the ogive and then find an accurate seating depth? |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 6:28:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Basically have to just load to the mag restriction. You can figure out your OAL to lands just to know it for the future and figure how far the mag length is jumping them but if stuck with a mag length then that is all you got.
What cartridge and mag are you talking about? |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 8:28:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Yep, unless you want to single load a semi-auto, you're limited to what ever the magazine allows.
I have a .30 HRT barrel that shoots ok when I load the rounds longer than magazine length and accuracy goes to shit at mag length. So... I'm looking at tossing the barrel and getting a TAC 30 barrel to replace it as it will have a much shorter throat. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 10:47:17 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Basically have to just load to the mag restriction. You can figure out your OAL to lands just to know it for the future and figure how far the mag length is jumping them but if stuck with a mag length then that is all you got. What cartridge and mag are you talking about? 6.5 with AICS. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 10:47:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Yep, unless you want to single load a semi-auto, you're limited to what ever the magazine allows. I have a .30 HRT barrel that shoots ok when I load the rounds longer than magazine length and accuracy goes to shit at mag length. So... I'm looking at tossing the barrel and getting a TAC 30 barrel to replace it as it will have a much shorter throat. What bullets do you use? |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:04:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: 6.5 with AICS. Yeah with a .199 SAAMI freebore and the 140 ELDs you will be at about 2.870" to lands so a little over the mag length. The 147 ELD is at 2.890". Depending on bullet it can be more but just load them to around 2.850" and run with it as that will fit in most metal AICS mags. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:22:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Yeah with a .199 SAAMI freebore and the 140 ELDs you will be at about 2.870" to lands so a little over the mag length. The 147 ELD is at 2.890". Depending on bullet it can be more but just load them to around 2.850" and run with it as that will fit in most metal AICS mags. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: 6.5 with AICS. Yeah with a .199 SAAMI freebore and the 140 ELDs you will be at about 2.870" to lands so a little over the mag length. The 147 ELD is at 2.890". Depending on bullet it can be more but just load them to around 2.850" and run with it as that will fit in most metal AICS mags. On your recommendation, I started off at 2.860". But I am finding that even when putting the round into the chamber, it won't close. (It hits the bottom of the chamber just below the throat) I have to manually put the front portion of the round into the throat and then it'll close. Don't have the same issues with the factory ammo. I was thinking of seating it down from 2.860" to 2.840", and go from there at .20" ? The Berger hybrids are not jump sensitive at all. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:40:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: What bullets do you use? I've used Nosler 125 BT's, Nosler 150 BT's, and Hornady 125gr. This is in an AR15 of course. I also have an older Savage 110 Tactical originally chambered in .223 (Savage first made all their "Tactical" rifles on the 110 long action), same thing, I can load them long and get great accuracy but they won't fit inside the blind-box magazine. I once shot a match years ago with that rifle... on the buzzer, I ran to the shooting position with ten rounds in my hands... I dropped down prone and put the rounds on the ground. Of course I was racing the clock so I was single-loading them, grass, dirt, and all. Folks were looking at me like  but I placed second.
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:48:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: On your recommendation, I started off at 2.860". But I am finding that even when putting the round into the chamber, it won't close. (It hits the bottom of the chamber just below the throat) I have to manually put the front portion of the round into the throat and then it'll close. Don't have the same issues with the factory ammo. I was thinking of seating it down from 2.860" to 2.840", and go from there at .20" ? The Berger hybrids are not jump sensitive at all. Can you explain the whole throat and fitment issue a little more. So it won't feed from a mag and fit in chamber but single it will? And what do you mean by bottom of chamber? Not making sense to me as if the round is in the chamber it should be going straight in and there should be no ability to hit top or bottom. What is the OAL to lands for that round with the Berger Hybrids in your rifle? |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:52:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: I've used Nosler 125 BT's, Nosler 150 BT's, and Hornady 125gr. This is in an AR15 of course. I also have an older Savage 110 Tactical originally chambered in .223 (Savage first made all their "Tactical" rifles on the 110 long action), same thing, I can load them long and get great accuracy but they won't fit inside the blind-box magazine. I once shot a match years ago with that rifle... on the buzzer, I ran to the shooting position with ten rounds in my hands... I dropped down prone and put the rounds on the ground. Of course I was racing the clock so I was single-loading them, grass, dirt, and all. Folks were looking at me like but I placed second.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: What bullets do you use? I've used Nosler 125 BT's, Nosler 150 BT's, and Hornady 125gr. This is in an AR15 of course. I also have an older Savage 110 Tactical originally chambered in .223 (Savage first made all their "Tactical" rifles on the 110 long action), same thing, I can load them long and get great accuracy but they won't fit inside the blind-box magazine. I once shot a match years ago with that rifle... on the buzzer, I ran to the shooting position with ten rounds in my hands... I dropped down prone and put the rounds on the ground. Of course I was racing the clock so I was single-loading them, grass, dirt, and all. Folks were looking at me like but I placed second.Have you tried the Berger hybrids? I went from Hornady to Berger and found a big difference. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 12:12:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Can you explain the whole throat and fitment issue a little more. So it won't feed from a mag and fit in chamber but single it will? And what do you mean by bottom of chamber? Not making sense to me as if the round is in the chamber it should be going straight in and there should be no ability to hit top or bottom. What is the OAL to lands for that round with the Berger Hybrids in your rifle? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: On your recommendation, I started off at 2.860". But I am finding that even when putting the round into the chamber, it won't close. (It hits the bottom of the chamber just below the throat) I have to manually put the front portion of the round into the throat and then it'll close. Don't have the same issues with the factory ammo. I was thinking of seating it down from 2.860" to 2.840", and go from there at .20" ? The Berger hybrids are not jump sensitive at all. Can you explain the whole throat and fitment issue a little more. So it won't feed from a mag and fit in chamber but single it will? And what do you mean by bottom of chamber? Not making sense to me as if the round is in the chamber it should be going straight in and there should be no ability to hit top or bottom. What is the OAL to lands for that round with the Berger Hybrids in your rifle? It doesn't feed well into the chamber from the magazine, or even if I just put a road into the chamber by itself. I have to push the round against the bolt (with the bolt being all the way to the rear) so it can be guided into the hole from the chamber. (Whatever that term is) The only other work around is to manually put the round partially in the hole. If I don't do any of the above, the bolt moves forward but hits the bottom portion just under the hole.  I think its hitting the lip of the circled portion. To the lands? Not sure off the top of my head, and I am not home. I think the lands when I measured it was 2.910" using the hornady gauge. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 12:19:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: It doesn't feed well into the chamber from the magazine, or even if I just put a road into the chamber by itself. I have to push the round against the bolt (with the bolt being all the way to the rear) so it can be guided into the hole from the chamber. (Whatever that term is) The only other work around is to manually put the round partially in the hole. If I don't do any of the above, the bolt moves forward but hits the bottom portion just under the hole. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/nelson_690s-1717666.jpg I think its hitting the lip of the circled portion. To the lands? Not sure off the top of my head, and I am not home. I think the lands when I measured it was 2.910" using the hornady gauge. That is a rifle issue and not a round OAL issue. The rifle might have a geometry issue that it won't feed the longer rounds. Could be the way the mag sits in the rifle. Just start seating it a little deeper until it feeds reliably and then you will see where you can work from in that rifle. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 12:30:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: That is a rifle issue and not a round OAL issue. The rifle might have a geometry issue that it won't feed the longer rounds. Could be the way the mag sits in the rifle. Just start seating it a little deeper until it feeds reliably and then you will see where you can work from in that rifle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: It doesn't feed well into the chamber from the magazine, or even if I just put a road into the chamber by itself. I have to push the round against the bolt (with the bolt being all the way to the rear) so it can be guided into the hole from the chamber. (Whatever that term is) The only other work around is to manually put the round partially in the hole. If I don't do any of the above, the bolt moves forward but hits the bottom portion just under the hole. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/nelson_690s-1717666.jpg I think its hitting the lip of the circled portion. To the lands? Not sure off the top of my head, and I am not home. I think the lands when I measured it was 2.910" using the hornady gauge. That is a rifle issue and not a round OAL issue. The rifle might have a geometry issue that it won't feed the longer rounds. Could be the way the mag sits in the rifle. Just start seating it a little deeper until it feeds reliably and then you will see where you can work from in that rifle. Factory rounds (COAL of 2.800" ish) have no problems. And like you said, I'lll seat it deeper for that reason. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 6:53:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Have you tried the Berger hybrids? I went from Hornady to Berger and found a big difference. No, not in this rifle as it's strictly a hunting rifle so I need better terminal performance. Besides, there's no doubt the throat is excessive. |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 9:34:13 PM EDT
[#14]
I just set bullet depth just shy of mag length, then try bullets that I know shoot good off the lands, Barnes TTSX, Swift Sciroccos, some Berger hybrids..I always find one that shoot great at said length...
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Posted: 12/6/2020 9:36:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: I just set bullet depth just shy of mag length, then try bullets that I know shoot good off the lands, Barnes TTSX, Swift Sciroccos, some Berger hybrids..I always find one that shoot great at said length... How shy? |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 10:19:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: How shy? .010" or so off touching..hasn't been an issue, even on my 300rum that uses AICS CIP 3.850" mags...All that matters is you can get the bullets in and out without them dragging on the mag... |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 10:30:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: .010" or so off touching..hasn't been an issue, even on my 300rum that uses AICS CIP 3.850" mags...All that matters is you can get the bullets in and out without them dragging on the mag... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: How shy? .010" or so off touching..hasn't been an issue, even on my 300rum that uses AICS CIP 3.850" mags...All that matters is you can get the bullets in and out without them dragging on the mag... Thanks |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 12:10:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: On your recommendation, I started off at 2.860". But I am finding that even when putting the round into the chamber, it won't close. (It hits the bottom of the chamber just below the throat) I have to manually put the front portion of the round into the throat and then it'll close. Don't have the same issues with the factory ammo. I was thinking of seating it down from 2.860" to 2.840", and go from there at .20" ? The Berger hybrids are not jump sensitive at all. How do you have your sizing die setup? It sounds like you’re not bumping the shoulder back far enough. If the round makes it into the chamber, it’ll self align and shouldn’t be catching at the lip preventing the bolt from closing. Once it’s that far in, it’s either the bullet jamming or the shoulder wasn’t pushed back far enough. After once or twice trying to close, you may have used the chamber to bump the shoulder back the last thou it needed to close. If you load at 2.800, do you still have issues closing the bolt? If so, get a set of comparator gauges from Hornady so you can measure your shoulder bump. |
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Posted: 12/7/2020 7:52:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: How do you have your sizing die setup? It sounds like you’re not bumping the shoulder back far enough. If the round makes it into the chamber, it’ll self align and shouldn’t be catching at the lip preventing the bolt from closing. Once it’s that far in, it’s either the bullet jamming or the shoulder wasn’t pushed back far enough. After once or twice trying to close, you may have used the chamber to bump the shoulder back the last thou it needed to close. If you load at 2.800, do you still have issues closing the bolt? If so, get a set of comparator gauges from Hornady so you can measure your shoulder bump. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: On your recommendation, I started off at 2.860". But I am finding that even when putting the round into the chamber, it won't close. (It hits the bottom of the chamber just below the throat) I have to manually put the front portion of the round into the throat and then it'll close. Don't have the same issues with the factory ammo. I was thinking of seating it down from 2.860" to 2.840", and go from there at .20" ? The Berger hybrids are not jump sensitive at all. How do you have your sizing die setup? It sounds like you’re not bumping the shoulder back far enough. If the round makes it into the chamber, it’ll self align and shouldn’t be catching at the lip preventing the bolt from closing. Once it’s that far in, it’s either the bullet jamming or the shoulder wasn’t pushed back far enough. After once or twice trying to close, you may have used the chamber to bump the shoulder back the last thou it needed to close. If you load at 2.800, do you still have issues closing the bolt? If so, get a set of comparator gauges from Hornady so you can measure your shoulder bump. I am going back to the range this week. Gonna load a few at a smaller COAL, and see if it helps. |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 3:50:48 PM EDT
[#20]
If your bolt won't close on your reloads seated at 2.800" then you most likely haven't bumped the case shoulder back enough.
Headspace actually increases, making the shoulder taller, until the die is screwed down far enough to bump it out. Most of my dies are screwed down hard against the shell holder, then turned another 1/16th to 1/8th past touching to get the headspace I want. You want .0015" to .002" headspace clearance in a bolt action. |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 3:51:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Try to chamber your resized brass without a bullet in place. If you are getting resistance to the bolt closing you need to bump the shoulder more.
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:39:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VooDoo3dfx]
[#22]
The bolt closes, but only when the round is placed in the chamber with the bullet partially in the throat.
I reduced the COAL to 2.840, and its still doing it. I found if I close the bolt at a quicker pace, I dont have a problem. Not sure if that's a good thing, or bad. I was digging back through my RCBS manual, and they recommended for resizer dies that once the die is screwed down and touches the shell holder, to raise the handle and turn approximately 1/4 of a turn more. The Forrester die I have does that recommend anything more than just screwing to where the shell holder touches. Not sure if that makes a lot of difference? |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2020 4:52:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: I understand finding an OGIVE, but how does one find it when you have a magazine restriction on top of it? Do you find the max allowed mag length, find the ogive and then find an accurate seating depth? Rebarrel, rechamber unless the barrel diameter is straight then you can set it back and ream with a throat that fits your mag length round. That is the best methods. |
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Posted: 12/12/2020 6:41:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: The bolt closes, but only when the round is placed in the chamber with the bullet partially in the throat. I reduced the COAL to 2.840, and its still doing it. I found if I close the bolt at a quicker pace, I dont have a problem. Not sure if that's a good thing, or bad. I was digging back through my RCBS manual, and they recommended for resizer dies that once the die is screwed down and touches the shell holder, to raise the handle and turn approximately 1/4 of a turn more. The Forrester die I have does that recommend anything more than just screwing to where the shell holder touches. Not sure if that makes a lot of difference? If you’re not having this same issue with factory ammo then the problem is due to your handloads and not the chamber. Like mentioned above, try chambering one of your sized cases with either a round loaded to 2.800 COAL or without a bullet in the case. It sounds like you aren’t bumping the shoulder enough and testing with a round at 2.800 or a sized empty will confirm this. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:20:13 AM EDT
[#25]
  So, putting an empty resized case in the chamber and slowly closing the bolt gets it stuck. If I put a little speed behind it, the case will slide in no problem . I already have the resizer die about a 1/4 more of a turn past the touching. Does it need to be more? |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:42:03 AM EDT
[#26]
 Not sure if it matters, but I noticed this ring post resizing. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:54:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#27]
What about those marks on the shoulder?
How many times has this brass been loaded? 3-4? Can you get better pics of the brass? It should be a lite camming action at the bottom of the press stroke. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:57:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: VooDoo3dfx]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: What about those marks on the neck? How many times has this brass been loaded? 3-4? Can you get better pics of the brass? It should be a lite camming action at the bottom of the press stroke. Just under the neck, it looks like a ring. That is brand new, never shot brass. What type of picture would you like? |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:58:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Have you tried the Berger hybrids? I went from Hornady to Berger and found a big difference. The long ogive on the Bergers is what's giving you fits. Those little needles don't climb the feedramp as well as the blunter Hornady bullets. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 12:01:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Just under the neck, it looks like a ring. That is brand new, never shot brass. What type of picture would you like? Meant shoulder. You’ve got several parallel marks that shouldn’t be there. Is that coming from the die or when they are chambered? |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 12:03:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: The long ogive on the Bergers is what's giving you fits. Those little needles don't climb the feedramp as well as the blunter Hornady bullets. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Have you tried the Berger hybrids? I went from Hornady to Berger and found a big difference. The long ogive on the Bergers is what's giving you fits. Those little needles don't climb the feedramp as well as the blunter Hornady bullets. Apparently the brass is giving me a little problem too. 
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Posted: 12/15/2020 12:04:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Meant shoulder. You’ve got several parallel marks that shouldn’t be there. Is that coming from the die or when they are chambered? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Just under the neck, it looks like a ring. That is brand new, never shot brass. What type of picture would you like? Meant shoulder. You’ve got several parallel marks that shouldn’t be there. Is that coming from the die or when they are chambered? Chambered. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 12:11:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Chambered. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Just under the neck, it looks like a ring. That is brand new, never shot brass. What type of picture would you like? Meant shoulder. You’ve got several parallel marks that shouldn’t be there. Is that coming from the die or when they are chambered? Chambered. That’s the issue. Clean your chamber just to ensure there’s no debris there. Your die likely needs to be turned in an 1/8th of a turn. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 12:55:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: That’s the issue. Clean your chamber just to ensure there’s no debris there. Your die likely needs to be turned in an 1/8th of a turn. More? I screwed the die down to where it's touching the shell holder. In then raise the handle to lower the shell holder, than turn the die another 1/4 turn. So, its another 1/8 on top of it? |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 3:20:35 PM EDT
[#35]
OP, measure your case diameters at the shoulder and case head and compare to a SAAMI drawing of your cartridge..my guess is you are to large of a diameter at the shoulder, which is why it won't slide into the chamber short of force...
Anytime I have any kind of issue with a cartridge/chamber I use the SAAMI prints to figure out exactly what isn't right....https://saami.org/technical-information/cartridge-chamber-drawings/ I assume 6.5 CM....  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 3:35:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: More? I screwed the die down to where it's touching the shell holder. In then raise the handle to lower the shell holder, than turn the die another 1/4 turn. So, its another 1/8 on top of it? It looks like it’s contacting the front of the chamber. If it’s new and never fired, you can try to chamber an unsized case to see if it chambers without leaving the marks and fits easily. I just noticed you said 1/4 of a turn. RCBS lists 1/8-1/4 of a turn. You could be over sizing the case, but I wouldn’t think you would contact the front of the chamber at the shoulder if that was the happening. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 5:06:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VooDoo3dfx]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: OP, measure your case diameters at the shoulder and case head and compare to a SAAMI drawing of your cartridge..my guess is you are to large of a diameter at the shoulder, which is why it won't slide into the chamber short of force... Anytime I have any kind of issue with a cartridge/chamber I use the SAAMI prints to figure out exactly what isn't right....https://saami.org/technical-information/cartridge-chamber-drawings/ I assume 6.5 CM.... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/404934/Screen_Shot_2020-12-15_at_10_18_57_AM_pn-1732436.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/404934/Screen_Shot_2020-12-15_at_10_19_36_AM_pn-1732437.JPG  OK, bear with me. I think I did the measuring correctly. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 6:20:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/20201215_154013-1732623.jpg OK, bear with me. I think I did the measuring correctly. So technically, you are over sizing the case as far as diameters... hmm, What is your case head dimension at? I have to wonder if your sizing die isn't pulling the shoulder back out when the button comes out of the neck.... Any other measurements out of wack with the print? You need a hornaday or stony point comparator, hornadays site calls for a .375" comparator, but according to the SAAMI prints it should take a .400" comparator body to properly check headspace off the datum line on the shoulder...(I use the .400 comparator)...  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 6:49:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: So technically, you are over sizing the case as far as diameters... hmm, What is your case head dimension at? I have to wonder if your sizing die isn't pulling the shoulder back out when the button comes out of the neck.... Any other measurements out of wack with the print? You need a hornaday or stony point comparator, hornadays site calls for a .375" comparator, but according to the SAAMI prints it should take a .400" comparator body to properly check headspace off the datum line on the shoulder...(I use the .400 comparator)... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/404934/77ECE69D-AF96-4BD4-AAC9-C8274B966260_1_2-1732722.JPG If it is, what's my recourse ? I don't have a headspace gauge, but do have a comparator. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 7:05:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: If it is, what's my recourse ? I don't have a headspace gauge, but do have a comparator. Get the hornaday comparator set for checking the headspace..its a needed item to insure you aren't over sizing... Just going to guess you have a really tight chamber with out knowing all the measurements...If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own...then do the neck(or vive versa as needed)...If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die...That will stop the shoulder getting pulled which will drastically hep neck concentricity as well most likely... |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 7:43:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Get the hornaday comparator set for checking the headspace..its a needed item to insure you aren't over sizing... Just going to guess you have a really tight chamber with out knowing all the measurements...If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own...then do the neck(or vive versa as needed)...If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die...That will stop the shoulder getting pulled which will drastically hep neck concentricity as well most likely... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: If it is, what's my recourse ? I don't have a headspace gauge, but do have a comparator. Get the hornaday comparator set for checking the headspace..its a needed item to insure you aren't over sizing... Just going to guess you have a really tight chamber with out knowing all the measurements...If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own...then do the neck(or vive versa as needed)...If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die...That will stop the shoulder getting pulled which will drastically hep neck concentricity as well most likely... First, thanks. Second, all I need is the headspace bush set, and you said .400... so, I'll put it on my list. Third ; "If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own" Which one would you recommend? I have a Redding FL sizer w/a .289 bush size, so I assume its a completely new die? "If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die" I am not sure what you are talking about here. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 7:55:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#42]
Does the virgin factory brass get marks when you chamber it?
Factory 700, no aftermarket barrel, correct? How much resistance is required to cam over the press, when no case is present? Is it light or do you really have to apply some force? |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 8:54:35 PM EDT
[#43]
In a pinch you can use a fired 9mm case or a sized .40 brass to check the headspace if you wanted to before you got the gauge in.
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Posted: 12/15/2020 9:00:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: First, thanks. Second, all I need is the headspace bush set, and you said .400... so, I'll put it on my list. Third ; "If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own" Which one would you recommend? I have a Redding FL sizer w/a .289 bush size, so I assume its a completely new die? "If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die" I am not sure what you are talking about here. Type S Redding dies come with a larger button holding the decapping pin in as well as a smaller black replacement which is what I use with a bushing die. I see no reason to size a neck to where I want it and then pull a button back through changing it. Redding makes a body die which doesn't touch the neck. Usually if you buy the set it comes with it. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018258755 You can buy the body die alone too https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018046992 They also make a small base body die to size the base more if tight. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012478292 |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 9:19:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: First, thanks. Second, all I need is the headspace bush set, and you said .400... so, I'll put it on my list. Third ; "If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own" Which one would you recommend? I have a Redding FL sizer w/a .289 bush size, so I assume its a completely new die? "If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die" I am not sure what you are talking about here. This is a shoulder die..the only thing it does is bump the shoulder, so you would size the neck with a neck only die, than bump the shoulder with the shoulder die...(or you could size with your current die, then comeback and bump the shoulder as needed afterwards..) https://www.amazon.com/Redding-Body-Die-6-5-Creedmoor/dp/B06XFLGHQT If you are using a full length die, you would remove the button on the deprimer rod and then either use just the correct bushing to give you the right neck size or go .001-,002" smaller with the neck bushing and then use a mandrel die to bring your neck back to finished diameter..You would set the Full length neck bushing die up to only size the neck and not touch the shoulder..you would then bump the shoulder separate with the shoulder die above... As to using a neck bushing only versus a neck bushing and a mandrel die, either works, I think you get slightly better neck tension consistency from case to case using the mandrel, but both ways do work... If you want to do a neck only die versus your FL neck die you would do this die, if you look at the pic you can see the removable neck button that sizes the neck back out...That button would not be used, you would rely on the correct neck bushing on its own, or combined with a mandrel die for neck sizing.... https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0007671446/6half-creedmoor-type-s-neck-bushing-die For a mandrel die you would use this die body.. https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx?psize=96 Along with these mandrels for 6.5 creed more... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-expander-mandrels-prod119668.aspx?psize=96 They also make them in different materials/ different turning size versus expanding size, I buy several so I can spin them up in a drill and sand them down if needed to get the size I want... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx?psize=96 |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 9:21:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Type S Redding dies come with a larger button holding the decapping pin in as well as a smaller black replacement which is what I use with a bushing die. I see no reason to size a neck to where I want it and then pull a button back through changing it. Redding makes a body die which doesn't touch the neck. Usually if you buy the set it comes with it. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018258755 You can buy the body die alone too https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018046992 They also make a small base body die to size the base more if tight. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012478292 The small base die would only be needed if your chamber diameters were on the tight size and a standard die wasn't shrinking case diameters enough OP, you don't appear to have that issue...
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Posted: 12/15/2020 10:29:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: The small base die would only be needed if your chamber diameters were on the tight size and a standard die wasn't shrinking case diameters enough OP, you don't appear to have that issue... Or if the brass base was blown out and tighter fitting. Happens in factory chambers and a small base may help if there is a problem chambering and the headspace is bumping enough. You’ll be surprised how a small base could help with more issues than people think. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 10:45:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Does the virgin factory brass get marks when you chamber it? Factory 700, no aftermarket barrel, correct? How much resistance is required to cam over the press, when no case is present? Is it light or do you really have to apply some force? 1) I will try 2) Aftermarket barrel, Krieger 3) You mean when the die is screwed in, how much force is required to pull the handle all the way down? It hits a spot of light resistance, but not a lot needed. |
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Posted: 12/15/2020 10:51:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: This is a shoulder die..the only thing it does is bump the shoulder, so you would size the neck with a neck only die, than bump the shoulder with the shoulder die...(or you could size with your current die, then comeback and bump the shoulder as needed afterwards..) https://www.amazon.com/Redding-Body-Die-6-5-Creedmoor/dp/B06XFLGHQT If you are using a full length die, you would remove the button on the deprimer rod and then either use just the correct bushing to give you the right neck size or go .001-,002" smaller with the neck bushing and then use a mandrel die to bring your neck back to finished diameter..You would set the Full length neck bushing die up to only size the neck and not touch the shoulder..you would then bump the shoulder separate with the shoulder die above... As to using a neck bushing only versus a neck bushing and a mandrel die, either works, I think you get slightly better neck tension consistency from case to case using the mandrel, but both ways do work... If you want to do a neck only die versus your FL neck die you would do this die, if you look at the pic you can see the removable neck button that sizes the neck back out...That button would not be used, you would rely on the correct neck bushing on its own, or combined with a mandrel die for neck sizing.... https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0007671446/6half-creedmoor-type-s-neck-bushing-die For a mandrel die you would use this die body.. https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx?psize=96 Along with these mandrels for 6.5 creed more... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-expander-mandrels-prod119668.aspx?psize=96 They also make them in different materials/ different turning size versus expanding size, I buy several so I can spin them up in a drill and sand them down if needed to get the size I want... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx?psize=96 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: First, thanks. Second, all I need is the headspace bush set, and you said .400... so, I'll put it on my list. Third ; "If so I would go to a Redding should bump die(no neck movement at all) and bump the shoulder on its own" Which one would you recommend? I have a Redding FL sizer w/a .289 bush size, so I assume its a completely new die? "If its the button in your current die pulling the shoulder out after sizing, I would remove the button and go to a mandrel die to size the neck to finished size after running thru your current die" I am not sure what you are talking about here. This is a shoulder die..the only thing it does is bump the shoulder, so you would size the neck with a neck only die, than bump the shoulder with the shoulder die...(or you could size with your current die, then comeback and bump the shoulder as needed afterwards..) https://www.amazon.com/Redding-Body-Die-6-5-Creedmoor/dp/B06XFLGHQT If you are using a full length die, you would remove the button on the deprimer rod and then either use just the correct bushing to give you the right neck size or go .001-,002" smaller with the neck bushing and then use a mandrel die to bring your neck back to finished diameter..You would set the Full length neck bushing die up to only size the neck and not touch the shoulder..you would then bump the shoulder separate with the shoulder die above... As to using a neck bushing only versus a neck bushing and a mandrel die, either works, I think you get slightly better neck tension consistency from case to case using the mandrel, but both ways do work... If you want to do a neck only die versus your FL neck die you would do this die, if you look at the pic you can see the removable neck button that sizes the neck back out...That button would not be used, you would rely on the correct neck bushing on its own, or combined with a mandrel die for neck sizing.... https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0007671446/6half-creedmoor-type-s-neck-bushing-die For a mandrel die you would use this die body.. https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx?psize=96 Along with these mandrels for 6.5 creed more... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-expander-mandrels-prod119668.aspx?psize=96 They also make them in different materials/ different turning size versus expanding size, I buy several so I can spin them up in a drill and sand them down if needed to get the size I want... https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx?psize=96 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049293 That is the FL die that I use. Can I do what you're saying just with that? This is starting to hurt my brain.
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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:24:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Welcome to advanced precision reloading.
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