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Posted: 11/15/2017 6:56:09 AM EDT
I guess this can apply to assessing rifle accuracy as well. I always have a hard time getting the perfect zero on shooting .308+ due to my lack of shooting experience. I know some rifles are 1MOA or better, and I’m shooting 4MOA with them. Usual set up is a bipod with a small rear bag while sitting. I need something that will take shooter error out of the equation while zeroing my rifle. Are things like the Caldwell Lead Sled worth the money? I’ve seen both good and bad reviews. Any other suggestions in set ups?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2017 7:16:20 AM EDT
[#1]
I like the Caldwell Tack Driver way better than a lead sled. It’s a large shooting back that kind of hugs the handguard or stock on your rifle.
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Posted: 11/15/2017 7:20:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Click2Boom]
[#2]
Put on table and boresight, put on lower/bolt and shoot till poi=poa
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Posted: 11/15/2017 8:04:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#3]
Precision rifles I use the bipod and squeeze bag.
Other rifles front and rear bags. Both after eyeball bore sighting. Instead of trying to use a machine to take shooter error out of the situation, eliminate shooter error. What is the point in a machine, is that how you will shoot all of your rounds? "Well if I ever do touch off a decent shot maybe it will be on target". |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2017 9:28:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Reorx]
[#4]
Originally Posted By mr2143:
...I know some rifles are 1MOA or better, and I’m shooting 4MOA with them... I need something that will take shooter error out of the equation while zeroing my rifle... |
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Posted: 11/15/2017 9:37:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Go for the permanent fix. Instead of buying a fancy whiz-bang, spend an hour with the gear you have and a good instructor. It will likely reduce your user moa error. Your practical zero will be the center of your spread.
I unnastan the want to have the crosshairs exactly on target, but that ignores the reality of how YOU shoot. If you consistently are going to pull a shot a certain direction, your zero needs to accomodate that. |
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Posted: 11/15/2017 9:51:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Bipod and a Rear Bag.
I don't by any means consider myself a group shooter, but anymore the Game Changer bag is my go to rear bag. I find it a much more stable platform than smaller bags. I always dry fire a little to see that the reticle isnt bouncing around on trigger pull and good body position helps. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2017 10:15:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Assuming you're not shooting long distance(where environmental factors become an issue) and you're on some sort of supported shooting position, you should be able to hold at or around 1MOA groups with a halfway decent trigger pull and decent ammo. I mean...if you're on a bipod/rear bag there's really nothing else to do but get it on target and squeeze the trigger...
What kind of scope do you have? I've seen cheap scopes cause some pretty nasty groups before...I got a buddy that refuses to buy good scopes...just keeps on spending money on cheap ones and can never get his rifles to shoot well...so I've seen it quite a bit. Have you tried different ammo? Are you shooting heavy for caliber bullets without a tight enough rifling? First thing I would do(assuming all the above is good) is get a good shooter to shoot the rifle...if the groups are still bad replace the scope or swap it out with a known good one. |
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Posted: 11/15/2017 11:51:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520:
Assuming you're not shooting long distance(where environmental factors become an issue) and you're on some sort of supported shooting position, you should be able to hold at or around 1MOA groups with a halfway decent trigger pull and decent ammo. I mean...if you're on a bipod/rear bag there's really nothing else to do but get it on target and squeeze the trigger... What kind of scope do you have? I've seen cheap scopes cause some pretty nasty groups before...I got a buddy that refuses to buy good scopes...just keeps on spending money on cheap ones and can never get his rifles to shoot well...so I've seen it quite a bit. Have you tried different ammo? Are you shooting heavy for caliber bullets without a tight enough rifling? First thing I would do(assuming all the above is good) is get a good shooter to shoot the rifle...if the groups are still bad replace the scope or swap it out with a known good one. |
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Posted: 11/16/2017 3:50:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: STRIKE504]
[#9]
Bipod and rear bag. Accuracy is consistency, do everything exactly the same every time and remember the fundamentals
stable body position- use support (bags, bipods, bone structure) don't use your muscles. Load your bipod. sight picture- proper and consistent sight alignment, scope levels are great. breath control- fire at natural respiratory pauses. I like firing on the exhale but ymmv. trigger squeeze- slow, deliberate, and follow through, don't jerk. Use the center of your index finger pad, don't grip the stock with your thumb. Spend your money on quality ammo and repeat the fundamentals in your head while shooting until they become natural and you don't have to think about them. 
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AR, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2017 4:01:36 PM EDT
[#10]
I just do 3 shot groups with a bipod, thats it.
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USA
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Posted: 12/1/2017 7:18:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: STXDobie]
[#11]
Bipod and a rear bag is all I need. I almost always sight in my rifles from the prone, occasionally I'll sight them in sitting at a table, but I find I get better stability and results from the prone. This makes sense as you isolate movement with more points of solid contact and you can get fully behind the rifle as well. Repeatability of everything you do on each and every round you fire is key and will lead to better groups.
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USA
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Posted: 12/25/2017 12:42:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Precision rifles I use the bipod and squeeze bag. Other rifles front and rear bags. Both after eyeball bore sighting. Instead of trying to use a machine to take shooter error out of the situation, eliminate shooter error. What is the point in a machine, is that how you will shoot all of your rounds? "Well if I ever do touch off a decent shot maybe it will be on target". If it will get on paper at 100 the first shot I can do it in one shot or two if I want a really precise zero. If I know it is unlikely to get on paper at 100. Ill take one shot at 25 yards, adjust then shoot at 100 yards, have a decent zero. Ill take another shot and adjust for a precise zero. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beachhead0: I agree with this, using this method I can zero a rifle in one to 3 rounds depending on circumstances. If it will get on paper at 100 the first shot I can do it in one shot or two if I want a really precise zero. If I know it is unlikely to get on paper at 100. Ill take one shot at 25 yards, adjust then shoot at 100 yards, have a decent zero. Ill take another shot and adjust for a precise zero. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:29:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nightstalker]
[#14]
Recently got pieces for precision rifle.
Mounted scope according to recommendations...level. Installed laser boresight and set crosshairs at 30 ft. |
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Posted: 5/10/2018 2:29:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Zeroing and/or load development, I want the human element totally removed from the equation. It's like doing a science experiment in which you eliminate the variables. That truly defines the accuracy the weapon is capable of and lets me know that anything less is my fault.
For Zeroing and load workups (ladder tests, box tests,etc), I use a lead-sled and a pneumatic trigger release. Once those tasks are done, I'll know that I should be able to match the inherent accuracy...if I'm doing it right. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 4:20:00 PM EDT
[#16]
I use a Bora clamp on my bench to push the bipod legs up against. Get it set in the position that is most comfortable for your and the length of your rifle.
There are different widths, HERE"S ONE 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/18/2018 5:58:47 PM EDT
[#17]
try Federal Gold Medal Match ammo.
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Posted: 11/19/2018 11:38:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Depends on the rifle and how I intend to employ it, but the most stable arrangement I can get- bipod and rear bag, front and rear bags, pack and rear bag, or tripod.
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Posted: 11/21/2018 4:34:21 PM EDT
[#19]
I only needed 5 rounds today. New unfired rifle. Top right was bore sighted and one near bull was first correction
 Attached FileThen 3 shots to verify  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 7:20:17 PM EDT
[#20]
@prossound ATF agent-in-training, I see.
What rifle? |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 8:30:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prossound:
I only needed 5 rounds today. New unfired rifle. Top right was bore sighted and one near bull was first correction https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/85425/F683302C-3364-4BEA-B329-3F67F4133210_jpeg-746405.JPG Then 3 shots to verify https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/85425/A3C884D7-09F9-43DE-9A40-B64D46D76FE9_jpeg-746407.JPG  
I do it the same basic way you do..bore sight it and get it on paper, then fire one shot and measure the offset and adjust accordingly..FFP scopes with a milling reticle make it pretty simple.... |
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Posted: 3/9/2019 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Two bigger sandbags for boresighting AR uppers. One smaller sandbag for rear support. Unless you only shoot off the bags, that's just a "bench zero".
From there, check your field positions. 5 shots, break and rebuild position, 5 shots, to average out Natural Point of Aim. |
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Posted: 3/9/2019 5:30:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By mr2143:
I guess this can apply to assessing rifle accuracy as well. I always have a hard time getting the perfect zero on shooting .308+ due to my lack of shooting experience. I know some rifles are 1MOA or better, and I'm shooting 4MOA with them. Usual set up is a bipod with a small rear bag while sitting. I need something that will take shooter error out of the equation while zeroing my rifle. Are things like the Caldwell Lead Sled worth the money? I've seen both good and bad reviews. Any other suggestions in set ups? Once I match my loads to the individual barrel's harmonics, I know I'll get the tightest groups the rifle is capable of and the lead sled takes any human induced error out of zeroing the weapon. Shooting off a rest/bipod and bag, 1 MOA is pretty poor for any rifle. I have a .308 GAP Crusader that shoots 3/8 MOA. If you want to actually achieve the absolute best accuracy with a given rifle you need to first remove the human element and optimize your ammo for that particular weapon. Then you will know what the weapon is truly capable of...if you do your part. |
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Posted: 3/9/2019 5:37:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Precision rifles I use the bipod and squeeze bag. Other rifles front and rear bags. Both after eyeball bore sighting. Instead of trying to use a machine to take shooter error out of the situation, eliminate shooter error. What is the point in a machine, is that how you will shoot all of your rounds? "Well if I ever do touch off a decent shot maybe it will be on target". It's like a process of elimination for factors contributing to error that remove all mechanical error before allowing human error into the equation. |
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