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Posted: 4/11/2021 4:49:53 PM EDT
So.... I went out to shoot today and for some reason, I decided to shoot groups at my longest range. (240 yards)
I shot two 5 round groups that measured right at 1 moa using ballistic x. I've never shot for groups at that range, but I may start trying to get that group size down. My 5 shot groups are .35-.45 moa on average from 100 consistently. I'm pretty sure the 240 yard groups are larger because I'm just a terrible shot from longer ranges and I haven't been shooting in a while. However, I'm on my last 200 rounds of 168gr right now and was wondering if you guys with more experience would chime in and let me know if I would see any appreciable difference if I switched to 175gr. I dont really want to reload or work a load up. I dont have a chronograph and the dope I have for 168gr is all from live shooting. I would have to redo the data for 175gr. My rifle is a tikka t3 tactical in a krg bravo. Also, I realize that different rifles of the same make shoot differently, but I'm sure you guys will have some good advice. I dont want to order a case of 175gr if there's not a reason to switch. |
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[#1]
At 200-240 yards then nope. Shoot what works already. If you were going to go out past 500 yards regularly then the 175 would bea better option but so would others with higher BCs.
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[#2]
This is interesting to me for several reasons, all I shoot is .308 and my personal range is maxed at 250yds.
I have a 10 twist Bergara that shoots .3's with GMM 168s and about .6s with 175. Those are the only two projectiles I have used so far. Also of note is I only have two powders, Norma 203B and Win760. My backyard range gets, old. So I went with a buddy and shot out to 800. I took a mix of both bullets, to my somewhat surprise the 175s out-preformed the 168s at ALL distances past 250. Anywho, for me personally 1 grain below MAX is my personal MAX. There's no rationale other than my kids shoot it a LOT in the hot summer months. I load both bullets to the same OAL and the same charge weight. 48.0 for the Win760 and 42.3 for the Norma powder. It's a compromise but one I am willing to live with. Shot alternatively and for score my 168s group low and slightly right at 100 yards, about .3 Mils low and .2 Mils right. Long winded as hell, hope I answered your question. |
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Pulled out the jammy, aimed it at the sky
He yelled "stick em up" and let two fly. |
[#3]
Originally Posted By Rob01: At 200-240 yards then nope. Shoot what works already. If you were going to go out past 500 yards regularly then the 175 would bea better option but so would others with higher BCs. View Quote I agree but I would shoot a box just to see if my rifle shot them better. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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[#4]
Originally Posted By samsgreen50: This is interesting to me for several reasons, all I shoot is .308 and my personal range is maxed at 250yds. I have a 10 twist Bergara that shoots .3's with GMM 168s and about .6s with 175. Those are the only two projectiles I have used so far. Also of note is I only have two powders, Norma 203B and Win760. My backyard range gets, old. So I went with a buddy and shot out to 800. I took a mix of both bullets, to my somewhat surprise the 175s out-preformed the 168s at ALL distances past 250. Anywho, for me personally 1 grain below MAX is my personal MAX. There's no rationale other than my kids shoot it a LOT in the hot summer months. I load both bullets to the same OAL and the same charge weight. 48.0 for the Win760 and 42.3 for the Norma powder. It's a compromise but one I am willing to live with. Shot alternatively and for score my 168s group low and slightly right at 100 yards, about .3 Mils low and .2 Mils right. Long winded as hell, hope I answered your question. View Quote Not surprised. The original 168 was designed for 300 yard match performance iirc. I think after years of asking Sierra to revise the 168’s boat tail angle they finally did? Anyway the 175 Sierra match was always a better, more modern design than the original 168. |
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[#5]
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[#6]
Originally Posted By Rob01: I agree as it’s good to know. Although today there are much better options than either for long range .308. Better BCs out there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By sparkyD: I agree but I would shoot a box just to see if my rifle shot them better. I agree as it’s good to know. Although today there are much better options than either for long range .308. Better BCs out there. True but op didn’t ask about ELDM or Berger. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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[#7]
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[Last Edit: Rob01]
[#8]
Originally Posted By Market_Garden: OP may not have known about those options, and since this is a discussion forum what's the harm in noting that there are options that offer even better performance? View Quote Very true. With a .523 BC the 168 ELD-M is a better option than the 168 or 175 SMK. Although with today's availability it best to buy what you can to at least have something to shoot. |
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[#9]
My issue is that I have no experience in long range shooting. I shoot from my longest range (240 yards) for fun once in a while. I understand the importance of the bc of a bullet and such, but I can easily find fgmm. They had a 185gr berger available I believe and I know Sierra released a 169gr projectile.
My question mainly revolved around whether or not I need the higher bc at such a short range. I have nowhere to shoot long range so I was wanting opinions to whether I should change ammo for the VERY small chance I may ever shoot actual long range or just shoot the 168s and call it a day. Again, I know I'm not a great AFCOM hero at longer range, but the 168s shoot good at 100 as far as I can see. 99.9% of my groups are less than .5 moa. I dont have enough time at 240 to actually test groups. The ones I shot were a 5 shot 1.059 and 4 shot .777. All that being said..... do I NEED a higher bc bullet or will I be able to shoot within my skill level at 500 or so yards if I do go that far? If there's another ammo to try, I may do that. I just like federal personally and haven't really tried any other match stuff. I have reloading equipment, but I dont even have time to shoot as much as I want, so I definitely wouldnt have time to reload the stuff. |
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[#10]
I answered that question in my first post. No you don’t need more for 240 yards. Same for 500 every once in a while.
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[#11]
Originally Posted By Market_Garden: OP may not have known about those options, and since this is a discussion forum what's the harm in noting that there are options that offer even better performance? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Market_Garden: Originally Posted By sparkyD: True but op didn't ask about ELDM or Berger. True! Now OP will have to find some Hornady match ammunition. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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[Last Edit: sparkyD]
[#12]
Originally Posted By Istolethisname: My issue is that I have no experience in long range shooting. I shoot from my longest range (240 yards) for fun once in a while. I understand the importance of the bc of a bullet and such, but I can easily find fgmm. They had a 185gr berger available I believe and I know Sierra released a 169gr projectile. My question mainly revolved around whether or not I need the higher bc at such a short range. I have nowhere to shoot long range so I was wanting opinions to whether I should change ammo for the VERY small chance I may ever shoot actual long range or just shoot the 168s and call it a day. Again, I know I'm not a great AFCOM hero at longer range, but the 168s shoot good at 100 as far as I can see. 99.9% of my groups are less than .5 moa. I dont have enough time at 240 to actually test groups. The ones I shot were a 5 shot 1.059 and 4 shot .777. All that being said..... do I NEED a higher bc bullet or will I be able to shoot within my skill level at 500 or so yards if I do go that far? If there's another ammo to try, I may do that. I just like federal personally and haven't really tried any other match stuff. I have reloading equipment, but I dont even have time to shoot as much as I want, so I definitely wouldnt have time to reload the stuff. View Quote Okay now I will try to shed a bit more light on your question. No the higher BC bullet is not needed, but the higher BC helps with wind deflection as well as drop. So therefore your groups should be tightened up do to less variance. For now I would shoot what you have and concentrate on trigger control and fallow through. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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[#13]
Bullet B.C. is pretty irrelevant inside 500 yards using midweight .30 caliber projectiles. Virtually every bullet between 155 and 178 fall inside .050 B.C. of each other. That means the bullet that shoots the tightest groups is your best bet.
Learning to judge wind and adjust as needed is far more important than fractional B.C. differences to deal with wind. I am a lifetime supporter of Sierra 168's inside 600 yards. They are not finnicky in the least and are easy to tune. |
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[#14]
I have 2 .308's. A FN SPR with a 1/11 twist barrel and a Savage Mod 10 FP with a 1/10 barrel. The Savage likes 155's and 168's. The FN likes 175's and 178 ELD-M's. They don't all work the same way. Most precision guns are like people, they're picky about what they eat.
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[#15]
The 185 berger FGMM didn’t group well at all for me. In theory it would provide the longest effective range because of BC (for obtainable factory ammo).
168smk doesn’t do so hot in factory loads for me, and the 175 has better ballistics anyway, so that’s what I use. As noted, out to like 500, use what’s best on paper. Past that you will start seeing real gains from BC. FGMM has a decent SD/ES, so even then you’ll start having groups open up at 300+. I suggest testing full power loads at 200, to account for some velocity variation and show more realistic groups. My own loads do much better at 100 than 200, even with typically 5fps SD... |
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