Ruger Precision Rifle (Page 9 of 90)
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
You'll be hard pressed to find a great node by jumping 1gr between charges. Hornady suggests 41.5gr, which is what I've seen used in 2 Savage 12 LRP's. The load shot fantastic in both rifles. Since you've established that it isn't over pressure based on your earlier tests, you may be able to tighten it up by trying +/- .2grs from the hornady suggested data. It may help, but each rifle is different. Just a suggestion before you give up on the Amax. Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By avboiler11:
42.0-43.0gr H4350 with a 139-142 class bullet. That seems to be the consensus and no doubt where I'm headed. Isn't 42-43gr of H4350 the de facto for the 260? Wouldn't a lighter charge of 41.3-41.8gr H4350 be more appropriate for the 6.5cm as a starting point/sweet spot for its case capacity? I've seen plenty of folks suggesting the same 41.0 to 43.0 range as being effective in the 6.5CM... perhaps it is, but with the 140gr A-Max for now... I'm not seeing it yet in my rifle. Won't hurt to back down to 38.0 to 39.0 next time around though... You'll be hard pressed to find a great node by jumping 1gr between charges. Hornady suggests 41.5gr, which is what I've seen used in 2 Savage 12 LRP's. The load shot fantastic in both rifles. Since you've established that it isn't over pressure based on your earlier tests, you may be able to tighten it up by trying +/- .2grs from the hornady suggested data. It may help, but each rifle is different. Just a suggestion before you give up on the Amax. Good point... maybe I'll go back and start lower at 40.0 and work to 41.5... that's all a part of the fun in it right...? I'll take accuracy over speed. I've done well over the years working in either 1.0gr or .5gr increments so I tend to stick to that as it has worked well for me. Honestly, when I get a load that shoots @ 3/4 MOA, I stop tweaking and start loading...  I'm not one to load in tenths burning powder and bullets looking to shave 1/4 inch off the group. All I do is utility shooting on steel to 500 yards with occasional 1K range sessions... the performance I seek is more than enough for that. I know that perhaps I'm missing out sometimes but hey, I'm lazy...
I've got maybe 300 rounds (140 A-Max with 39.0 IMR 4007SSC) already for my LR-65 so the incoming 140 A-Max will just sit unless I burn them up... so I guess I won't toss in the A-Max towel just yet. The way those Sierra 140's shot, I'd be fine loading a bunch of those... for my use, they would be an affordable fodder. If I shot in matches or competitions I'd see it differently. |
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
RANGE REPORT #2 Same conditions as yesterday, prone with bi-pod and rear bag. Comfortable in the shade and all shots taken felt great except one. FS was removed, made no difference. I tried 42.0 and 43.0 H4350 with the 140 A-Max bullets and it appears my rifle simply does not like them. I tried some older Sierra 140gr Spitzer BT's with 41.0 H4350 and the rifle really liked them... while I've had good accuracy in the past with a "hunting bullet", I must say I was pleased with the results. I have some 130gr Berger Hybrids, some SMK's, and more A-Max coming but I'm going to regulate the A-Max bullets to my LR-65 for now. The results of the 140gr A-Max with 39.0grs IMR 4007SSC w/o FS... <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/exYYA5Rtj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/YYA5Rt.jpg</a> The 140 A-Max with 42.0 and 43.0 grs H4350... <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/p9o4g9qlj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/909/o4g9ql.jpg</a> <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/ipZuEWZvj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/ZuEWZv.jpg</a> First go with the Sierra SPBT's... @ 0.800" <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/ipMb2ZZhj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/Mb2ZZh.jpg</a> Last group of the day, with the Sierra SPBT's... by shot 4 I could see a good thing happening, on the last shot I started to lose that "good" shooting position/feeling and should have stopped... but it went just high and right, still a great group, don't know if it made a difference or not. This went @ 0.700" <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/hlnZr74dj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/633/nZr74d.jpg</a> Sorry, I'm just not getting what you are trying to do. Seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at it and it looks like it. Work with one powder and one bullet and work it up properly. The results are confusing. If you just want to bang steel, then ok. Just saying. |
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Originally Posted By delirious1:
Sorry, I'm just not getting what you are trying to do. Seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at it and it looks like it. Work with one powder and one bullet and work it up properly. The results are confusing. If you just want to bang steel, then ok. Just saying. Originally Posted By delirious1:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
RANGE REPORT #2 Same conditions as yesterday, prone with bi-pod and rear bag. Comfortable in the shade and all shots taken felt great except one. FS was removed, made no difference. I tried 42.0 and 43.0 H4350 with the 140 A-Max bullets and it appears my rifle simply does not like them. I tried some older Sierra 140gr Spitzer BT's with 41.0 H4350 and the rifle really liked them... while I've had good accuracy in the past with a "hunting bullet", I must say I was pleased with the results. I have some 130gr Berger Hybrids, some SMK's, and more A-Max coming but I'm going to regulate the A-Max bullets to my LR-65 for now. The results of the 140gr A-Max with 39.0grs IMR 4007SSC w/o FS... <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/exYYA5Rtj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/YYA5Rt.jpg</a> The 140 A-Max with 42.0 and 43.0 grs H4350... <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/p9o4g9qlj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/909/o4g9ql.jpg</a> <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/ipZuEWZvj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/ZuEWZv.jpg</a> First go with the Sierra SPBT's... @ 0.800" <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/ipMb2ZZhj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/Mb2ZZh.jpg</a> Last group of the day, with the Sierra SPBT's... by shot 4 I could see a good thing happening, on the last shot I started to lose that "good" shooting position/feeling and should have stopped... but it went just high and right, still a great group, don't know if it made a difference or not. This went @ 0.700" <a href="https://imageshack.com/i/hlnZr74dj" target="_blank">http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/633/nZr74d.jpg</a> Sorry, I'm just not getting what you are trying to do. Seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at it and it looks like it. Work with one powder and one bullet and work it up properly. The results are confusing. If you just want to bang steel, then ok. Just saying. I've been loading for over 30 years... I've toiled over loads before getting to that 1/2 MOA mark so I'm familiar with the entire process. I retracted my initial intent to ditch the 140 A-Max for the short term as yes, I took a short cut straight to what many have posted on various sites as a good load point reference H4350, kind of like starting with 41.5grs IMR 4895 and the 168SMK for a solid .308 load. In regards to the IMR 4007SSC loads, I was in hopes of getting under MOA results as it would be nice to have common ammo among two rifles (already had that load worked up was just trying it with the RPR)... well, that was a wash. Yes... if I can get under MOA without burning lots of powder and time, I'll be satisfied as my utility shooting needs don't require a scientific approach aimed at reducing groups by 1/4" or 1/8"... I stopped that kind of loading some time back. The results shown with the Sierra 140's is spot on for what I'm looking for/trying to do... and that took all of minutes to create (common weight charge range for that bullet). What I was doing in the initial loads and testing with the 140 A-Max was to see if my rifle likes what appears to be a common load used by many (140 A-Max with 42.0 to 43.0 H4350)... I can with confidence say it does not as it performed poorly by PR standards. Now... does that mean with another powder or reduced H4350 charge the 140 A-Max won't do better... of course not... I will be revisiting reduced charge weights to see if it makes a difference. But before I do, I'm going to sling some other bullets down range using again... common weight ranges. If my approach seems ass-backwards, I totally understand... but I've been loading a long time and have learned to cut out a lot of time, effort, and cost that is not necessary for my current shooting needs (servicing steel targets in realistic shooting environments/positions) and was just sharing the initial quick and dirty attempts... again, I totally understand why it looks to you as I'm chasing my tail or just tossing a hail Mary... but I assure you, I got this. |
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Originally Posted By CFII:
Hell, that looks great. How is the cheek weld? With the vortex razor HD and the 1.26 rings. Check weld felt the best and looked best at 15mm rise of the check weld. I won't know until I get to the range really this weekend. Maybe tomorrow. I've got to load some initial rounds in the morning and I'm waiting for UPS to bring me a new toy. A magneto speed V3. If I get that before the afternoon, I'll head to the range. If not, Saturday morning. But the heat here will be over 100. Wish I could go early. I don't think the butler creek cap will work with these rings. I wish there was a 1.3 inch set of 35 mm rings. I think they would be perfect. Best I could find was a larue lt104 with 35 mm rings. Puts me at 1.5 up. I have quite a few larue mounts, but I'm not keen on a quick disconnect on a bolt rifle. Maybe. I'll see how happy I am with the 1.26 rings tomorrow. Badger creek makes some high rings but I don't know much about them. I'm getting up early to load some rounds and give the bore an initial cleaning. Hopefully I'll have some reports. I plan on opening her up with some 140 amax. Then on to some Berger hybrids. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Isn't 42-43gr of H4350 the de facto for the 260? Wouldn't a lighter charge of 41.3-41.8gr H4350 be more appropriate for the 6.5cm as a starting point/sweet spot for its case capacity? Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Originally Posted By avboiler11: 42.0-43.0gr H4350 with a 139-142 class bullet. That seems to be the consensus and no doubt where I'm headed. Isn't 42-43gr of H4350 the de facto for the 260? Wouldn't a lighter charge of 41.3-41.8gr H4350 be more appropriate for the 6.5cm as a starting point/sweet spot for its case capacity? |
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Originally Posted By CFII: Why .243 over 6.5? I am looking to shoot at least 1000 yards. I shoot out to 800 already with my OBR in 7.62... .243 is flatter as the expense of barrel life. I'm over 3100 with a 105 right now. My 260 is running a 140 at 2875. My 308 OBR is running a 175 at a little over 2500. The smaller bullets to 1000 much easier. If I could keep one gun it would be the 260. Its a nice balance of ballistics and barrel life. I shoot enough that have a 6mm barrel life is a little bit of a concern and being able to do one at home is appealing to me. |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Everyone I know who loads for it ended up somewhere above 42 and below 43. Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By avboiler11:
42.0-43.0gr H4350 with a 139-142 class bullet. That seems to be the consensus and no doubt where I'm headed. Isn't 42-43gr of H4350 the de facto for the 260? Wouldn't a lighter charge of 41.3-41.8gr H4350 be more appropriate for the 6.5cm as a starting point/sweet spot for its case capacity? Yup. You can start lower and work up for safety but you will probably end up between 42 and 43grns with the 140 bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor. |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
.243 is flatter as the expense of barrel life. I'm over 3100 with a 105 right now. My 260 is running a 140 at 2875. My 308 OBR is running a 175 at a little over 2500. The smaller bullets to 1000 much easier. If I could keep one gun it would be the 260. Its a nice balance of ballistics and barrel life. I shoot enough that have a 6mm barrel life is a little bit of a concern and being able to do one at home is appealing to me. Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By CFII:
Why .243 over 6.5? I am looking to shoot at least 1000 yards. I shoot out to 800 already with my OBR in 7.62... .243 is flatter as the expense of barrel life. I'm over 3100 with a 105 right now. My 260 is running a 140 at 2875. My 308 OBR is running a 175 at a little over 2500. The smaller bullets to 1000 much easier. If I could keep one gun it would be the 260. Its a nice balance of ballistics and barrel life. I shoot enough that have a 6mm barrel life is a little bit of a concern and being able to do one at home is appealing to me. Hmm, ok. Thanks for the info. I am a solid gun guy for everything except long range bolt guns. I am trying to decide between 6.5 and .243. I am leaning heavily to 6.5CM. |
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Originally Posted By CFII: Hmm, ok. Thanks for the info. I am a solid gun guy for everything except long range bolt guns. I am trying to decide between 6.5 and .243. I am leaning heavily to 6.5CM. Originally Posted By CFII: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Originally Posted By CFII: Why .243 over 6.5? I am looking to shoot at least 1000 yards. I shoot out to 800 already with my OBR in 7.62... .243 is flatter as the expense of barrel life. I'm over 3100 with a 105 right now. My 260 is running a 140 at 2875. My 308 OBR is running a 175 at a little over 2500. The smaller bullets to 1000 much easier. If I could keep one gun it would be the 260. Its a nice balance of ballistics and barrel life. I shoot enough that have a 6mm barrel life is a little bit of a concern and being able to do one at home is appealing to me. Hmm, ok. Thanks for the info. I am a solid gun guy for everything except long range bolt guns. I am trying to decide between 6.5 and .243. I am leaning heavily to 6.5CM. |
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
Yup. You can start lower and work up for safety but you will probably end up between 42 and 43grns with the 140 bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor. Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By avboiler11:
42.0-43.0gr H4350 with a 139-142 class bullet. That seems to be the consensus and no doubt where I'm headed. Isn't 42-43gr of H4350 the de facto for the 260? Wouldn't a lighter charge of 41.3-41.8gr H4350 be more appropriate for the 6.5cm as a starting point/sweet spot for its case capacity? Yup. You can start lower and work up for safety but you will probably end up between 42 and 43grns with the 140 bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor. This is what I've read... so that's why I started at 42.0 and saw no pressure signs so I jumped to 43.0 with both loads giving poor performance. While I can't totally rule out the possibility the performance will get better if I start at 42.2grs and work back up to 43.0grs but based on my experience I'm not optimistic. Just to make sure though I'll shoot some more 140 A-Max bullets but I'll start next time back at 41.0grs and go from there. Apparently 41.5grs duplicates the factory load...? The Sierra BT's shot great right from the start with a start load of 41.0 so as far as I'm concerned, that's where I'll stay with THAT specific bullet. |
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: EDIT TO ADD- I have a couple pounds of H-4350 and lots of W-760 and IMR 4895 to work with. Anyone have some pet loads they want to share I'd like to see what others are having success with. 139 Lapua Scenar 41.8 H4350 Hornady brass Fed 210M primer COAL: 2.815 |
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
This is what I've read... so that's why I started at 42.0 and saw no pressure signs so I jumped to 43.0 with both loads giving poor performance. While I can't totally rule out the possibility the performance will get better if I start at 42.2grs and work back up to 43.0grs but based on my experience I'm not optimistic. Just to make sure though I'll shoot some more 140 A-Max bullets but I'll start next time back at 41.0grs and go from there. Apparently 41.5grs duplicates the factory load...? The Sierra BT's shot great right from the start with a start load of 41.0 so as far as I'm concerned, that's where I'll stay with THAT specific bullet. How far off the lands are you loading them? I load them .020" off the lands. Try some loads between 42 and 43 and you might be surprised. Also try the 41.5. |
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
How far off the lands are you loading them? I load them .020" off the lands. Try some loads between 42 and 43 and you might be surprised. Also try the 41.5. Originally Posted By Rob01:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
This is what I've read... so that's why I started at 42.0 and saw no pressure signs so I jumped to 43.0 with both loads giving poor performance. While I can't totally rule out the possibility the performance will get better if I start at 42.2grs and work back up to 43.0grs but based on my experience I'm not optimistic. Just to make sure though I'll shoot some more 140 A-Max bullets but I'll start next time back at 41.0grs and go from there. Apparently 41.5grs duplicates the factory load...? The Sierra BT's shot great right from the start with a start load of 41.0 so as far as I'm concerned, that's where I'll stay with THAT specific bullet. How far off the lands are you loading them? I load them .020" off the lands. Try some loads between 42 and 43 and you might be surprised. Also try the 41.5. Just working with 2.80" (mag length) for now. Will adjust jump if I can't find a good mag length load. Will do on the 41.5... got a modified case coming, I know you can measure other ways but the case will be here in a couple days. |
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
Doesn't this rifle use AICS mags? You should be able to load out to around 2.870" with them if not a little longer. I believe so... right now I just have the MagPul mags and a bunch of M1A mags. I could also just go to single loading, that's what I've done on other rifles but it would be nice to not have to obviously. The A-Max with its secant ogive is more sensitive to bullet jump in general... no? Not the first time I've had problems getting Hornady bullets to shoot... my Ruger 77 in ,243 Winchester simply will not shoot the 100gr SP no matter what length... it loves Nosler BT's but chokes on Hornadys. I have a .223 that loves Noslers but won't shoot the Hornady 53gr HP regardless of length. I'll find out what length touches the lands and back off .020" and try again at 41.5grs and work back up... PLENTY of other bullets out there that may require a lot less effort to shoot. ETA- I'm not bitching or complaining... just sharing what I'm trying and the results. |
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| No AMAX aren't really sensitive. Some rifles like some bullets and don't like others. I shoot factory loaded Creedmoor ammo which is at 2.820" and it shoots great in my rifle. They don't need to be super close to the lands but .020" is where I usually start and end up. You might try and single load until you get some AICS mags but knowing the OAL to lands is always something good to know. |
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Originally Posted By Rob01:
No AMAX aren't really sensitive. Some rifles like some bullets and don't like others. I shoot factory loaded Creedmoor ammo which is at 2.820" and it shoots great in my rifle. They don't need to be super close to the lands but .020" is where I usually start and end up. You might try and single load until you get some AICS mags but knowing the OAL to lands is always something good to know. Agree... thanks for the input. |
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Regardless of platform I always start out with bullets touching the lands and back them up .005" to .035 and fire five (5) shot strings to see which seating depth groups the best using the same powder charge for all. Once I get the most accurate OAL I use a bullet comparator to measure the OAL off the ogive.
You need to know what seating depth your rifle prefers first before changing other variables IMHO. |
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Originally Posted By JKH62:
Regardless of platform I always start out with bullets touching the lands and back them up .005" to .035 and fire five (5) shot strings to see which seating depth groups the best using the same powder charge for all. Once I get the most accurate OAL I use a bullet comparator to measure the OAL off the ogive. You need to know what seating depth your rifle prefers first before changing other variables IMHO. Been there... done that. I just wanted to first try what would fit in the magazine. I'm sure I'll find a good quality bullet that will perform at magazine length. I have some loads for rifles that are single load due to COAL, I'm not going that route with this rifle, unless I can't avoid it. ETA- anyone else find it more comfortable to flip the cheek rest around? I saw it on a video and did the same thing. |
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Originally Posted By steinhab:
For those that have them, how is weight and balance with optic and mag? Is it comparable to a traditional precision bolt rifle or is the center of balance closer to the magwell? I'm guessing 14-15 lbs loaded and scope, but is it balanced enough for offhand and easy position shooting and carrying for hunting? |
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Originally Posted By steinhab:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
For those that have them, how is weight and balance with optic and mag? Is it comparable to a traditional precision bolt rifle or is the center of balance closer to the magwell? I'm guessing 14-15 lbs loaded and scope, but is it balanced enough for offhand and easy position shooting and carrying for hunting? LOL, you actually think people shoot these offhand. 
It's becoming a lost art, unfortunately. It's even referred to as "compromised position." |
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
LOL, you actually think people shoot these offhand.
It's becoming a lost art, unfortunately. It's even referred to as "compromised position." Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
For those that have them, how is weight and balance with optic and mag? Is it comparable to a traditional precision bolt rifle or is the center of balance closer to the magwell? I'm guessing 14-15 lbs loaded and scope, but is it balanced enough for offhand and easy position shooting and carrying for hunting? LOL, you actually think people shoot these offhand.
It's becoming a lost art, unfortunately. It's even referred to as "compromised position." My original idea was to find a Savage 10 predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. But this Ruger rifle has everything I want, perfect price, but it's 2 lbs heavier. I want to use it for hunting too besides long range shooting. I know it's heavy but normal precision rifles are very front heavy from barrel. Wondering if this one is better balanced. |
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Range Report
First day out with the creedmoor. I tested 140 gr factory amax and 140 gr Berger Hybrids. Caldwell rest with bags on stock. 95-100 degrees F. Berger Hybrids were loaded with OAL 2.89 (hand fed. did not fit magazine) 0.015 off the lands unsuppressed 140 grain amax factory loads 
Speed Sighted in speed 2730 ft/s 2691 ft/s 2688 ft/s 2711 ft/s 2697 ft/s Targeted speed 2694 ft/s 2690 ft/s 2674 ft/s 2701 ft/s 2678 ft/s Min2674 Max2730 Avg2695 S-D16.1 Suppressed 140 gr factory amax SilencerCo Harvester 
I loaded up from 39 to 42.5 grains in 0.5 increments using H4350 and BR2 primers. Brass was FL sized. Necks turned and then neck sized. I decided to start at 40 grains to check speed and conserve some bullets.. I just went from there and did not shoot the 39 and 39.5 grain loads. 40 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2588 ft/s 2570 ft/s 2570 ft/s 2622 ft/s 5 error ---------------- Series3 Shots:4 Min2586 Max2603 Avg2593 S-D9 ES 17 
40.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2600 ft/s 2603 ft/s 2586 ft/s 2586 ft/s ---------------- Series4 Shots:5 Min2624 Max2646 Avg2633 S-D8.8 ES 22 
41 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2637 ft/s 2626 ft/s 2646 ft/s 2624 ft/s 2634 ft/s ---------------- Series5 Shots:5 Min2658 Max2695 Avg2678 S-D16.4 ES 37 
41.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2695 ft/s 2668 ft/s 2695 ft/s 2676 ft/s 2658 ft/s ---------------- Series6 Shots:5 Min2662 Max2719 Avg2694 S-D20.6 ES 57 
42 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2698 ft/s 2694 ft/s 2719 ft/s 2662 ft/s 2701 ft/s ---------------- Series7 Shots:5 Min2706 Max2821 Avg2746 S-D43.7 ES 115 
42.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Pressures signs noted on two of the five rounds. Funny it wasn't the last shot at 2821 Speed 2738 ft/s 2734 ft/s 2731 ft/s 2706 ft/s 2821 ft/s Max : 2821 Min : 2706 ES : 115 Avg : 2746 SD : 43 
So. I think my next mission is around 42 grain +/- Then I'll play with lengths off the lands in later loads. I think it shot well. I was surprised to see the 7 shot suppressed group. Drop was about 10-11 milrad from nonsupressed groups. |
| Good shooting. I'd get some mags that can handle those loaded to mag length. The AICS or one of the Alpha mags would work better. I wish the AW mags fit, but they won't latch in |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Good shooting. I'd get some mags that can handle those loaded to mag length. The AICS or one of the Alpha mags would work better. I wish the AW mags fit, but they won't latch in I was just thinking about that. I don't have a clue which to get. I kind of loosely put the mag in to help with hand feeding. I don't like that it has a bolt catch on it. I'll have to call and see which AI mag fits. I doubt I'll hunt with it but if I did, I'd just use the factory amax |
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Originally Posted By delirious1: I was just thinking about that. I don't have a clue which to get. I kind of loosely put the mag in to help with hand feeding. I don't like that it has a bolt catch on it. I'll have to call and see which AI mag fits. I doubt I'll hunt with it but if I did, I'd just use the factory amax Originally Posted By delirious1: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Good shooting. I'd get some mags that can handle those loaded to mag length. The AICS or one of the Alpha mags would work better. I wish the AW mags fit, but they won't latch in I was just thinking about that. I don't have a clue which to get. I kind of loosely put the mag in to help with hand feeding. I don't like that it has a bolt catch on it. I'll have to call and see which AI mag fits. I doubt I'll hunt with it but if I did, I'd just use the factory amax Just the regular AICS mags fit. There are a couple places that makes clones that should as well. |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Just the regular AICS mags fit. There are a couple places that makes clones that should as well. Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By delirious1:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Good shooting. I'd get some mags that can handle those loaded to mag length. The AICS or one of the Alpha mags would work better. I wish the AW mags fit, but they won't latch in I was just thinking about that. I don't have a clue which to get. I kind of loosely put the mag in to help with hand feeding. I don't like that it has a bolt catch on it. I'll have to call and see which AI mag fits. I doubt I'll hunt with it but if I did, I'd just use the factory amax Just the regular AICS mags fit. There are a couple places that makes clones that should as well. this it? Only single stack or can there be a double stack? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2898468203/accuracy-international-magazine-accuracy-international-chassis-system-aics-short-action-308-winchester-steel-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding Technical Information: This magazine will accept a cartridge with a maximum overall length of 2.880" which leaves 0.020" of clearance so the cartridge will still be able to feed and move in the mag without a problem. I think this would put me .020 off the lands or shorter. Right now, at 0.015 I'm at 2.89. So, I think that's the ticket. |
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Originally Posted By delirious1: this it? Only single stack or can there be a double stack? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2898468203/accuracy-international-magazine-accuracy-international-chassis-system-aics-short-action-308-winchester-steel-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding Technical Information: This magazine will accept a cartridge with a maximum overall length of 2.880" which leaves 0.020" of clearance so the cartridge will still be able to feed and move in the mag without a problem. I think this would put me .020 off the lands or shorter. Right now, at 0.015 I'm at 2.89. So, I think that's the ticket. Originally Posted By delirious1: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Originally Posted By delirious1: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Good shooting. I'd get some mags that can handle those loaded to mag length. The AICS or one of the Alpha mags would work better. I wish the AW mags fit, but they won't latch in I was just thinking about that. I don't have a clue which to get. I kind of loosely put the mag in to help with hand feeding. I don't like that it has a bolt catch on it. I'll have to call and see which AI mag fits. I doubt I'll hunt with it but if I did, I'd just use the factory amax Just the regular AICS mags fit. There are a couple places that makes clones that should as well. this it? Only single stack or can there be a double stack? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2898468203/accuracy-international-magazine-accuracy-international-chassis-system-aics-short-action-308-winchester-steel-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding Technical Information: This magazine will accept a cartridge with a maximum overall length of 2.880" which leaves 0.020" of clearance so the cartridge will still be able to feed and move in the mag without a problem. I think this would put me .020 off the lands or shorter. Right now, at 0.015 I'm at 2.89. So, I think that's the ticket. Those are sort of staggered stacking, and feed single. AW mags are double stack double feed and will not latch in place in the ruger. |
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Originally Posted By delirious1:
Range Report First day out with the creedmoor. I tested 140 gr factory amax and 140 gr Berger Hybrids. Caldwell rest with bags on stock. 95-100 degrees F. Berger Hybrids were loaded with OAL 2.89 (hand fed. did not fit magazine) 0.015 off the lands unsuppressed 140 grain amax factory loads <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/38B3BC6F-61AC-4207-B00A-D751D55B0024_zpsrqyxqmuo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/38B3BC6F-61AC-4207-B00A-D751D55B0024_zpsrqyxqmuo.jpg</a> Speed Sighted in speed 2730 ft/s 2691 ft/s 2688 ft/s 2711 ft/s 2697 ft/s Targeted speed 2694 ft/s 2690 ft/s 2674 ft/s 2701 ft/s 2678 ft/s Min2674 Max2730 Avg2695 S-D16.1 Suppressed 140 gr factory amax SilencerCo Harvester <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/C2DAC7C4-5F15-4D6C-B9CE-E77532636191_zpsicu4ixdj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/C2DAC7C4-5F15-4D6C-B9CE-E77532636191_zpsicu4ixdj.jpg</a> I loaded up from 39 to 42.5 grains in 0.5 increments using H4350 and BR2 primers. Brass was FL sized. Necks turned and then neck sized. I decided to start at 40 grains to check speed and conserve some bullets.. I just went from there and did not shoot the 39 and 39.5 grain loads. 40 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2588 ft/s 2570 ft/s 2570 ft/s 2622 ft/s 5 error ---------------- Series3 Shots:4 Min2586 Max2603 Avg2593 S-D9 ES 17 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/5ED077F8-17E9-4B28-9EEC-FEBCCC2931A9_zpsyb3aobfw.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/5ED077F8-17E9-4B28-9EEC-FEBCCC2931A9_zpsyb3aobfw.jpg</a> 40.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2600 ft/s 2603 ft/s 2586 ft/s 2586 ft/s ---------------- Series4 Shots:5 Min2624 Max2646 Avg2633 S-D8.8 ES 22 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/2D03458D-939F-45CC-8907-5968D7408582_zpsdovlpuwj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/2D03458D-939F-45CC-8907-5968D7408582_zpsdovlpuwj.jpg</a> 41 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2637 ft/s 2626 ft/s 2646 ft/s 2624 ft/s 2634 ft/s ---------------- Series5 Shots:5 Min2658 Max2695 Avg2678 S-D16.4 ES 37 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/629985AB-8D21-4FEA-AF97-A59F8AFCB369_zps2zy3cxws.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/629985AB-8D21-4FEA-AF97-A59F8AFCB369_zps2zy3cxws.jpg</a> 41.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2695 ft/s 2668 ft/s 2695 ft/s 2676 ft/s 2658 ft/s ---------------- Series6 Shots:5 Min2662 Max2719 Avg2694 S-D20.6 ES 57 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/2A5C0EF8-80AD-4558-A18E-790FE6CA990C_zps6q3nalkb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/2A5C0EF8-80AD-4558-A18E-790FE6CA990C_zps6q3nalkb.jpg</a> 42 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Speed 2698 ft/s 2694 ft/s 2719 ft/s 2662 ft/s 2701 ft/s ---------------- Series7 Shots:5 Min2706 Max2821 Avg2746 S-D43.7 ES 115 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/1EFA3F2D-7413-44A5-9346-2629A7AF954C_zpsgce7l3em.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/1EFA3F2D-7413-44A5-9346-2629A7AF954C_zpsgce7l3em.jpg</a> 42.5 grains H4350 with 140 grain Berger Hybrid Pressures signs noted on two of the five rounds. Funny it wasn't the last shot at 2821 Speed 2738 ft/s 2734 ft/s 2731 ft/s 2706 ft/s 2821 ft/s Max : 2821 Min : 2706 ES : 115 Avg : 2746 SD : 43 <a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/user/freedell/media/ar/58256527-0507-4EE0-BBE3-9BCCDD3080BB_zpsfeuf5gss.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/freedell/ar/58256527-0507-4EE0-BBE3-9BCCDD3080BB_zpsfeuf5gss.jpg</a> So. I think my next mission is around 42 grain +/- Then I'll play with lengths off the lands in later loads. I think it shot well. I was surprised to see the 7 shot suppressed group. Drop was about 10-11 milrad from nonsupressed groups. That suppressed group looks great. I'm looking forward to trying the 123 SMK and 130 hybrids but I'll also be working off the lands vs. trying to stay at mag length. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
10-11 clicks? Or 10-11 Mils? If that later that is ridiculous. Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
Originally Posted By delirious1:
I think it shot well. I was surprised to see the 7 shot suppressed group. Drop was about 10-11 milrad from nonsupressed groups. 10-11 clicks? Or 10-11 Mils? If that later that is ridiculous. clicks. sorry. yeah, the suppressed surprised me. I don't use it when working up loads, but I might make an extra set of 5 at my predicted load to see how it compares. |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
They go in fine, but they don't trip the mag catch. Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
On the AW mags, what's stopping it from latching? So if someone were to make an appropriately shorter latch... |
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman: So if someone were to make an appropriately shorter latch... Originally Posted By ziarifleman: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Originally Posted By ziarifleman: On the AW mags, what's stopping it from latching? So if someone were to make an appropriately shorter latch... |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
I think fabricating something could be done by someone who knew what they were doing. If you push the mags in they fall right out. I much prefer AW mags so using them would be nice. Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
On the AW mags, what's stopping it from latching? So if someone were to make an appropriately shorter latch... Interesting. I'll keep that in mind. |
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
LOL, you actually think people shoot these offhand.
It's becoming a lost art, unfortunately. It's even referred to as "compromised position." Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
Originally Posted By steinhab:
For those that have them, how is weight and balance with optic and mag? Is it comparable to a traditional precision bolt rifle or is the center of balance closer to the magwell? I'm guessing 14-15 lbs loaded and scope, but is it balanced enough for offhand and easy position shooting and carrying for hunting? LOL, you actually think people shoot these offhand.
It's becoming a lost art, unfortunately. It's even referred to as "compromised position." I spent two hours this morning just working on my kneeling and offhand shooting at 300yds. Only took a few shots in that time, spent most of my efforts dry firing and watching the cross hairs bounce. In my opinion kneeling is the most important position to master. I really doubt this rifle would be 14-15lbs loaded up though, my 6.5CM AR weighs that much but it's got a truck axle barrel and heavy monolithic upper with NF 5-25. My Cooper bolt action Creedmoor is only 9lbs without scope, I'd think this would be several less than the 14 mentioned above. |
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I got mine in yesterday and spent a good amount of time messing with it to give a detailed first impressions:
Overall I really like this rifle, however this first impression review may sound critical of it because it's easier to explain bad things than good. I should also mention that I'm manufacturing engineer, and while I don't specialize in any particular process used in this rifle, I still have an eye for some things. 
Its clear that Ruger designed this rifle with this price point in mind. Some people might call this "cutting corners", but in this case I think Ruger did an analysis of where they can cut costs with the least impact to performance. I'll start with the barrel: I cleaned the barrel with butch's bore shine and was able to get an impression on how smooth and consistent it was. Ruger's decision to use the hammer forging process to make these barrels makes absolute sense in my opinion. They already had the forging equipment and only had to buy dies and smaller tooling, which while not cheap is a fraction of the cost of the forging equipment. I would guess Ruger can forge these barrels for 1/5 to 1/10 the cost of outsourcing the blanks from a third party manufacturer. I'll note this is purely speculation on my part, but not a total WAG based on what I know about operating costs. The accuracy of Ruger's CHF barrels is still to be determined, but FN (SPR bolt gun) and Remington (5R line) used CHF barrels in their bolt guns that are very accurate. While cleaning the barrel, it was apparent that Ruger did not lap the bore to the level that you would expect from a high end custom barrel maker. Patches simply did not go down as smoothly as with the Krieger .260 barrel that I was cleaning at the same time. Not that the Ruger was bad, about what is expected from a factory barrel, maybe slightly better. That being said the bore is very consistent which is much more important than being super smooth. The pressure required to push the patch through is consistent, better than some button rifled match barrels I'd had, which may have been a result of inconsistent rifling or bore diameter. From a cost vs expected performance perspective, I think Ruger made the right call. I wish the barrel had a slightly thicker contour, but I'm not sure if that was a design decision made by Ruger, or if that's the thickest their hammer forge was capable of doing since it requires a lot more pressure for a slight increase in thickness. I think the design of the action is brilliant. I didn't go as far as taking off the barrel, but I do like how it is attached to the rifle. I really like how everything from the barrel to the receiver to the stock is all on the same axis. From a load path standpoint, that is brilliant and probably my favorite thing about the rifle. Once custom shops get their hands on them, I'm hoping to find out whether or not the actions need truing like Remingtons. The machining on the action is not the best. The inside bore of the receiver has some chatter marks, probably from dull tooling. This affects how smooth the bolt slides forward and backwards, but had no effect on real performance. The bolt is not super tight in the receiver like some custom actions which makes sense for this rifle. They can save money via looser tolerances that way, as well as have an action that is less affected by dirt and debris. The bolt locks up nice and solid though, which is what really matters. The end result is an action that doesn't feel super refined, but is very functional. The bolt is something I'm undecided on. I'm a bit surprised they didn't go with a floating bolt head. It would make the receiver being perfectly true less important. Seems like it would be cheaper that way with the same or better accuracy. But I wasn't on Ruger's design team and I'm sure they had their reasons. Without knowing what they knew, I can't knock them on that. I'm not sure why the bolt needs two cocking ramps on the back of it as that's just more machine time, however I'm sure they had their reasons. There are a few things I dislike about the bolt though. The finish on mine was not very smooth. A relatively rough finish on bare metal like that is just asking for corrosion, stainless or not. I ended spending about an hour polishing the bolt by hand with a microfiber cloth and flitz metal polish. It smoothened the bolt body to be nice and slick to prevent corrosion as well as ride smoother in the receiver. I did not touch the locking lugs. I'm not really a fan of the bolt shroud as it feels cheap and flimsy on the bolt. I plan to order a backup shroud as I don't forsee this one lasting the life of the rifle. I have nothing but praise for the buttstock and folding mechanism. Perfect and well thought out in my opinion. If they sell these in the aftermarket, I may get one for my AR-15 (minus the folding ability). I really like how there is a feature to cant the buttstock to better fit the shoulder pocket. It really shows that Ruger was paying attention. The trigger is serviceable, but nothing special in my opinion. I'm not a particular fan of the accutrigger in Savages so I may be biased here. I've learned to treat the safety like the first stage of a two-stage trigger, although it doesn't feel quite as nice as one. The trigger pull itself has a good amount of creep before it breaks. Luckily this creep is extremely smooth. I would compare the trigger pull to similar to a Geissele 3-gun trigger where you pull through smoothly until it just breaks without hitting a second stage wall. Obviously it doesn't move nearly as much as the 3G trigger before breaking, but a similar feeling. It's certainly not my favorite trigger, but it's not bad and some people may prefer it. Once aftermarket triggers come out for it, I will take price into account before buying. One thing I was particularly impressed with was the design of the trigger weight adjustment. The screw stops on both sides of the adjustment range to tell you not to overturn it. The way they made the stops is cheap and effective. I've seen adjustable set screws where the hole where the spring rides is slightly smaller than the tapped hole for the set screw. That way the set screw will stop on the second hole instead of compressing the spring too far. This is a very effective way to do it, however it requires drilling twice. Ruger simply put a ring of locktite on the screw near the base so the user can feel when it's getting to the limit of adjust the pull on the heavy side. To adjust the screw to lighten the trigger, the user must turn the screw out. Instead of an internal stop to prevent the screw going out too far, they just designed it so the screw stops on the inside of the lower receiver. I don't know why I was so impressed with that, it extremely simple and effective. I should note that because of this DO NOT try to adjust the trigger with the lower receiver off. The magazine cycled with the included Pmag as well as several of the M14 mags I had lying around. It did not like the Vietnam era mags quite as much as new production mags. The older USGI mags tend to be tighter fitting in my M14s and M1a making it just too tight for the Ruger. This is not a real concern to me as the USGI mags costs considerably more and are more collector items now anyways. My least favorite part about this rifle is the Samson rail. I do not like the thermal bushing system, and the handguard to barrel nut attachment just does not seem to be very solid. Mine came off center like this one: 
I ended up taking off the rail and thermal bushings, reinstalling them and it centered from left to right. However the rail is still not centered vertically and the barrel looks like it droops (although its really the rail going upwards). Whats more alarming is that when I apply pressure to the rail and barrel to correct it, it actually moves slightly. Then when I put it back on the bipod it goes back to it's droop. This tells me the rail to barrel nut interface is not very solid. My Diamondhead VRS-T, BCM KMR, and SLR rails do not do this as they are completely solid on the barrel nut. This could be due to the fact that they use a proprietary barrel nut instead of a standard one, but I'm willing to bet some rails that use a standard barrel nut are more solid than this. I am currently considering other rails that use the stock barrel nut to replace the Samson as I do not wish to remove the barrel nut. The one advantage to the Samson (and I suspect the reason Ruger choose that rail) is that the barrel nut does not have to be perfectly timed as the thermal bushings allow some flexibility for the rail mount. Obviously this applies to the RPR only as it will have to be timed perfectly on an AR-15 due to the gas tube. If my barrel nut is not perfectly timed (and it may not be as it's not necessary), then I'm SOL and stuck with the samson unless I want to remove or time the barrel nut. These are my initial impressions from messing with the rifle yesterday. I am waiting on optics and muzzle brake (Vias) before I can take it shooting for a range report. Overall I am very happy with the rifle. I think Ruger made some very intelligent decisions to get the rifle down to the price point it is being offered at. I'm actually quite impressed with the amount of thought that went into it from the manufacturing side. Of course none of these points matter that much compared to performance and accuracy, which I have not yet tested. |
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Originally Posted By Easy_E: Any pictures with handguard off I reallywantto see how the barrel is mounted ? Thanks  |
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
There are some pics out there online. It uses a barrel nut that goes on using an AR wrench. It is not an AR Barrel nut though. http://www.realguns.com/images/upperreceiverrpr2set.jpg Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Any pictures with handguard off I reallywantto see how the barrel is mounted ? Thanks I'm thinking the nut that is on there for the samson rail is solely for the rail. I bet it's not torqued on very hard and can but replaced without effecting headspace. However I don't want to be the guinea pig. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034: I'm thinking the nut that is on there for the samson rail is solely for the rail. I but it's not torqued on very hard and can but replaced without effecting headspace. However I don't want to be the guinea pig. Originally Posted By Lennyo3034: Originally Posted By TeeRex: Originally Posted By Easy_E: Any pictures with handguard off I reallywantto see how the barrel is mounted ? Thanks I'm thinking the nut that is on there for the samson rail is solely for the rail. I but it's not torqued on very hard and can but replaced without effecting headspace. However I don't want to be the guinea pig. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
The accuracy of Ruger's CHF barrels is still to be determined, but FN (SPR bolt gun) and Remington (5R line) used CHF barrels in their bolt guns that are very accurate. While cleaning the barrel, it was apparent that Ruger did not lap the bore to the level that you would expect from a high end custom barrel maker. Patches simply did not go down as smoothly as with the Krieger .260 barrel that I was cleaning at the same time. Not that the Ruger was bad, about what is expected from a factory barrel, maybe slightly better. My FN SPR barrel is hammer forged, chrome lined and is a one hole shooter if I do my part. You are spot on about Krieger barrels and its really apples to oranges in comparing a cut rifled and lapped barrel to a production hammer forged or buttoned barrel. My Krieger barrels pass patches like they are on air bearings. My SPR tube is not ever close for surface finish but its a shooter. Considering a Krieger barrel and install is approaching 1/2 the cost of the Ruger the Ruger is a VERY nice package. I might pick one up in .308 for a companion to my FN. |