Posted: 11/6/2015 6:30:01 PM EDT
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I'd like for this to be a collection point for tips, tricks, and practical advice on reading wind.
I'm just starting to shoot 5.56 at 750, so I am NOT a pro yet. In fact, that's why I'm came here looking for just this sort of thread. I know how to get my elevation right were it needs to be, but thus far have about 0% chance of a first round hit because of my utter lack of wind reading ability. I observe strikes and can adjust and make hits, but I've reached the point where I feel that if I'm not practicing my wind reading skills before/as I do this, then I'm just spending ammo for grins. So, to kick things off, the why: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/05/14/how-much-does-wind-reading-ability-matter/ And what looks like a good start on the how: YouTube: SNIPER 101 Part 31 - Wind Corrections (1/2) - Rex Reviews I'd really like to see more in-depth talk about reading mirage. Like Rex points out in the video above, the drawings in FM-23-10 don't really tell me much. I've observed it at the range, but don't really know how to classify/measure it and what calculations to use to get a wind reading from it. I look forward to the advice of the more knowledgeable and putting it into practice in the coming months. |
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Great thread here for 175gr 308 on doping for windhttp://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_1/2133_Wind_Formulas.html
Txl |
The new racism is anything that might hurt a Democrat politically..
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Originally Posted By FlatDarkEarth:
I'd like for this to be a collection point for tips, tricks, and practical advice on reading wind. I'm just starting to shoot 5.56 at 750, so I am NOT a pro yet. In fact, that's why I'm came here looking for just this sort of thread. I know how to get my elevation right were it needs to be, but thus far have about 0% chance of a first round hit because of my utter lack of wind reading ability. I observe strikes and can adjust and make hits, but I've reached the point where I feel that if I'm not practicing my wind reading skills before/as I do this, then I'm just spending ammo for grins. So, to kick things off, the why: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/05/14/how-much-does-wind-reading-ability-matter/ And what looks like a good start on the how: YouTube: SNIPER 101 Part 31 - Wind Corrections (1/2) - Rex Reviews I'd really like to see more in-depth talk about reading mirage. Like Rex points out in the video above, the drawings in FM-23-10 don't really tell me much. I've observed it at the range, but don't really know how to classify/measure it and what calculations to use to get a wind reading from it. I look forward to the advice of the more knowledgeable and putting it into practice in the coming months. Reading wind is something you have to practice and practice in varying locations to get much good at. It's easy enough to use the parallax knob to see how it's doing at various ranges, what direction, how fast etc... and to come up with an average total wind based on time of flight through each specific wind zone. There's not a lot of reading you're going to do that's going to help. You need to get out and shoot and experience it and watch it and dope it. I would suggest a mentor as this is the most challenging part of long range shooting to educate yourself in. |
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You can read all you want on the subject, but when it comes down to it the only way you are going to be able to "read the wind" is from your own experience.
Every rifle, ammo, optic combination is going to behave differently in the same wind conditions. The best thing you can do is get yourself a log book and record what you experience as you shoot to get a trend of what to expect. The more info the better as then you can interpolate between the data. There is a ton of data out there for common cartriges, bullet weights/types at different velocities, but you might not get the same with your setup. I still consider myself a beginner at this, but this was the best advice I was given when I started stretching my distance and compensating for things like wind, temp, etc. Also shooting with an experienced mentor and/or long range rifle classes can speed up the learning curve greatly |
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Originally Posted By crazyelece:
You can read all you want on the subject, but when it comes down to it the only way you are going to be able to "read the wind" is from your own experience. Every rifle, ammo, optic combination is going to behave differently in the same wind conditions. The best thing you can do is get yourself a log book and record what you experience as you shoot to get a trend of what to expect. The more info the better as then you can interpolate between the data. There is a ton of data out there for common cartriges, bullet weights/types at different velocities, but you might not get the same with your setup. I still consider myself a beginner at this, but this was the best advice I was given when I started stretching my distance and compensating for things like wind, temp, etc. Also shooting with an experienced mentor and/or long range rifle classes can speed up the learning curve greatly Absolutely. You can read all day long and until you go out and do it and shoot in it, reading is worthless. It's something that has to be done regularly as, like most things with long range precision, its a perishable skill. As far as the mirage pictures in the 23-10, they're pretty straight forward. They show the direction the wind is blowing and the speed depending on the angle as compared to the horizon. Reading mirage is better for getting wind information than anything else out there, at least in a tactical environment. Flags down range are really the best indicator but unless you're going to get a bad guy to hold one up for you, good luck using that. lol Bottom line, go out and practice the techniques and then shoot in them. Also, don't shoot less than 300 meters. Wind isn't really going to affect much at short ranges. |
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I have learned more about how to connect with targets at long range by driving a spotting scope than I have shooting, no question about it.
Yes, you need to be a solid shooter to be able to consistently break clean shots. If you haven't compensated for wind, you might as well not take it off safe. There is no better experience than watching bullets fly downrange through quality optics with high magnification or resolution. Being able to see at least impacts, but preferably vapor trail or the actual bullet in optimum lighting conditions (sun behind you), will really show you how your bullet behaves in the flowing soup of the wind. I've been actively driving a spotting scope since I was 19. I'll be 42 this year. Just spent the weekend driving a spotting scope, binos, and LRF for 2 days, and I'll be doing it again soon enough. After we get dialed in during my courses, I like to partner teams up, or get on a shooter's rifle and put them on my spotting scope behind me so they can see bullet trace or flight path behavior and impact after flying through the wind from their own gun. When someone first tells you to hold .5 to 1 Mil into the wind off the target, it feels so wrong, and the tendency is to not trust them, to still stay on the target. Getting behind the spotting scope will make the light bulb come on very brightly. "Ohhhhhhhhh...." My first rounds on target now in good wind will be either edge of plate, or off the plate with the correct mil hold based on my total analysis of the wind effects I see, from my position, to mid-range, to 2/3-3/4 of the way to the target. The more indicators I have, the better. Kestrel, wind flags, mirage, vegetation, tree tops, whatever I can see gets quickly factored in and I shoot the conditions as close as possible to the readings. Yesterday, I took some video during my DM Course shooting steel. We had shifting winds, with shifting speeds, but they weren't too bad. The biggest thing you will see on wind deflection is often the BC of the bullet. With 6.5 mm, I don't really have to hold much wind, even at moderate speeds. We had a wind from the right pretty much the whole time on that part of the range, so you have to start favoring right and holding right edge of plate with a .308 even in the 400yd distances and farther. With 6.5 Grendel, I could stay basically in the center out to 400yds, then favor slightly at 500, a little more at 600, and at 1000yds, I was 1.3-1.5 Mils when I made my hits on the little silhouette. You can see vapor trail in my video at 600 and 500yds: 
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
I have learned more about how to connect with targets at long range by driving a spotting scope than I have shooting, no question about it. no doubt. i basically learned to read the wind over about 6 seasons of scoring in NRA HP/CMP matches. watching trace from 30 guys on the line go down range and trying to call it before the guy in the pits puts the target back in the air. i almost always start teaching new shooters to spot before shooting. |
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Originally Posted By FlatDarkEarth:
I'd like for this to be a collection point for tips, tricks, and practical advice on reading wind. I'm just starting to shoot 5.56 at 750, so I am NOT a pro yet. In fact, that's why I'm came here looking for just this sort of thread. I know how to get my elevation right were it needs to be, but thus far have about 0% chance of a first round hit because of my utter lack of wind reading ability. I observe strikes and can adjust and make hits, but I've reached the point where I feel that if I'm not practicing my wind reading skills before/as I do this, then I'm just spending ammo for grins. So, to kick things off, the why: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/05/14/how-much-does-wind-reading-ability-matter/ And what looks like a good start on the how: YouTube: SNIPER 101 Part 31 - Wind Corrections (1/2) - Rex Reviews I'd really like to see more in-depth talk about reading mirage. Like Rex points out in the video above, the drawings in FM-23-10 don't really tell me much. I've observed it at the range, but don't really know how to classify/measure it and what calculations to use to get a wind reading from it. I look forward to the advice of the more knowledgeable and putting it into practice in the coming months. I was attached to a unit of scout snipers for about 18mo. I never shot with them, I was only retrans coms. But there was one drunken conversation in the barracks around this, the seeming consensus was that you read the mirage and make a series of shots at distance to group without dialing in windage. The spotter notes the splashes and tells you how many MIL off you are. You do this every day, in varying conditions, comprising thousands of rounds of practice and you eventually learn to read the mirage  . FM not needed.
But seriously, I think the jist of the conversation is nothing beats practice. |
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One point, and some may disagree... there's no such thing as "reading" the wind. That suggests that you're getting a whole idea or that there's enough information in a blurry image to give you precise information. Properly termed it'd be "wind estimation". Real Life Example: In a match I'll read the optical wind effects through my scope or a spotting scope or both and take the time to feel it on my skin, look at plant and dust motion, etc... and then before the shot I'll call off to my coach, "Wind call?" and often as not he'll tell me zero wind or put my wind at the opposite of what I thought it should be. He does this while it's clearly blowing 15mph at the firing position and clearly blowing at random speeds and directions at various distances on the way to the target. I'll trust him (which I always harumph about because seriously, it sucks being this wrong this often). I launch the round and make a hit. Coach has been a competition long range shooter for >35years and I've done it for a lot less than that. When I shoot without his guidance I find out really fast how undeveloped my wind reading skills are. Wind reading proficiency separates the pros from the rest and it comes from burned ammo and sore shoulders. |