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Posted: 6/27/2021 12:17:26 AM EDT
I am going to order an assembled upper to build a precision AR in .223. This will be used at the range on a bench or prone and with an optic. It will not be used to hunt or carried around so weight is OK. I am leaning towards a 20" White Oak assembled Varmint upper in 1/7 twist. Should I go longer or with a different twist?
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Posted: 6/27/2021 12:27:39 AM EDT
[#1]
I'd go 18" SPR but 20" is the max I'd go. The PRI tubes are really underrated in my opinion but that's what I'd slap on there.
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Posted: 6/27/2021 12:35:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Some people go 1 in 6.5 if you are going to predominantly use the 85 or even 90 grain hand fed bullets. If sticking to the 77 grain or less 1 in 7 should be fine. I run 1 of there 1 in 8 match barrels and it still seems to like the Barnes 85 gr standard length loadings. For 600 yards you shouldn't need the small velocity increase of a longer barrel.
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Posted: 6/27/2021 10:35:41 AM EDT
[#3]
My 24” bushmaster varminter with 1-9 twist will easily get the 69gr Hornady or Nosler custom competition to 600 yards. The 70gr Berger VLD will get you a few more yards if it’s not to windy.
If you’re going to run suppressed I would stick to 1-7 twist 18-20” barrel and the 75-77gr Bthp bullets. I really like the Varminter profile with the heavy part of the barrel under the tube and the light profile up front. It’s not bad to carry and with the 69gr bullets it thumps coyotes really well.  Pigs aren’t fond of it either. As you can see it gets carried enough in gun rack to wear the hand guard down. |
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Posted: 6/27/2021 11:04:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CNC_Guy: I run 1 of there 1 in 8 match barrels and it still seems to like the Barnes 85 gr standard length loadings. Barnes factory loaded 85 grain Match Burner ammunition shoots extremely well from my 20” Lothar Walther barrel with a 1:8” twist.  Hand-loads using the 85 grain Match Burner shoot superbly from my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15 with a 1:7.7” twist.   ... |
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Posted: 6/27/2021 12:28:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By rssc: I am going to order an assembled upper to build a precision AR in .223. This will be used at the range on a bench or prone and with an optic. It will not be used to hunt or carried around so weight is OK. I am leaning towards a 20" White Oak assembled Varmint upper in 1/7 twist. Should I go longer or with a different twist? White Oak is a solid choice. As for length, as a dedicated bench gun a 20” is fine. I have owned a couple 20” uppers and the extra weight and velocity is nice at 600. I have never found the need to load heavier than 77gr bullets for our regular 600yd shoots. Both the SMK and the Berger Tactical's do well with a slight edge to the Berger’s in my guns. My LT uppers have all been 1/8 twist and accuracy with the 77’s is excellent. If you want to go heavier a faster twist may benefit you. FWIW, 77gr pills can be loaded mag length no problem and work great at 600. |
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Posted: 6/27/2021 3:50:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Guys I want to thank everyone for the excellent advice. If I wanted to go over 600 yards, say 800, would it make sense to go with a longer barrel? My range maxes out at 600 right now but word is they may increase that down the road. If I were to go to 22" I would need to go to 1/8 twist as WOA does not make a 1/7 in that length.
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Posted: 6/27/2021 4:51:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rssc: Guys I want to thank everyone for the excellent advice. If I wanted to go over 600 yards, say 800, would it make sense to go with a longer barrel? My range maxes out at 600 right now but word is they may increase that down the road. If I were to go to 22" I would need to go to 1/8 twist as WOA does not make a 1/7 in that length. 20" is plenty long, you will only gain 50 fps going to 22", 100 fps going to 24". 1/8 to 1/7 and anything in between works great. I consider .223 maxed out around 700 yards +/-. This is particularly true is you are shooting magazine length bullets 77 grains and lighter. Friends don't let friends buy bull barrels. 18" SPR profile or 20" DMR/Service Rifle profile are the heaviest I can recommend. Even the Service Rifle profile is too heavy IMO. Ammunition quality is by far the greatest contributor to accuracy. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/27/2021 5:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sebspeed]
[#8]
Larue is running a special right now, Stealth barreled 16" upper for $699. In stock and shipping next week. He shot 20 of them this week averaging .400 moa
Edit, they are 8 twist Wylde chambers, he was posting best results with 73gr loads. |
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Posted: 6/27/2021 6:15:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sebspeed: Larue is running a special right now, Stealth barreled 16" upper for $699. In stock and shipping next week. He shot 20 of them this week averaging .400 moa Edit, they are 8 twist Wylde chambers, he was posting best results with 73gr loads. I think he said similar barrel profiles…not necessarily the same uppers. Iirc, those were ptobr’s he got those results from. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2021 1:20:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sebspeed]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: I think he said similar barrel profiles…not necessarily the same uppers. Iirc, those were ptobr’s he got those results from. I've been following on Instagram, he said same as Stealth profile and he's been posting MGU(match grade upper) results for days now. I ordered one. He posted a 69gr smk group that looked to be right at .250-.300"! |
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Posted: 6/28/2021 10:04:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rssc: Guys I want to thank everyone for the excellent advice. If I wanted to go over 600 yards, say 800, would it make sense to go with a longer barrel? My range maxes out at 600 right now but word is they may increase that down the road. If I were to go to 22" I would need to go to 1/8 twist as WOA does not make a 1/7 in that length. My RPR with the 80gr ELDM will get to and past 800 yards with a 20” barrel. But I think an AR barrel might have to have a little longer throat and be single load. |
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Posted: 6/28/2021 10:43:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD: My RPR with the 80gr ELDM will get to and past 800 yards with a 20” barrel. But I think an AR barrel might have to have a little longer throat and be single load. Okay I got to my computer to get some charts posted. I don't think you can get 800 with the 70gr Berger VLD. But I think you can crowd it.  Here is the 69gr Nosler Custom Competition out of my 1-9 twist Varminter with 24" barrel. I've had this load to 700 easily. Plus it shoots a tighter group than the Berger 70gr VLD.  Now this is the 70gr VLD. I cannot seem to get it under an moa. Plus at 750'ish it starts to destabilize. With a 1-7 twist you might get it to 800 with Varget. That is if pressure doesn't bite you. Wind is going to be your main adversary with the lighter .22 cal bullets. The 75 gr ELDM will get there if single loaded.  Here is the 75gr Hornady black box out of my RPR .223 with 20" barrel it will get there but wind kills it.  Now here is the 80 gr ELDM load with Varget. It's retaining more velocity. My 1-9 twist barrel on the Varminter will not stabilize 75 gr Hornady black box. |
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Posted: 6/28/2021 10:57:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: ... Friends don't let friends buy bull barrels. 18" SPR profile or 20" DMR/Service Rifle profile are the heaviest I can recommend. Even the Service Rifle profile is too heavy IMO. ... bp, why do you recommend lighter contour barrels? If the OP is shooting from a bench or prone only, I see weight as a good thing in mitigating the already mild recoil of the .223/5.56. Spotting one's own shots is pretty handy. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2021 11:12:31 AM EDT
[#14]
I have a LaRue 20" stealth and 20" JP. The JP shoots alittle better but its also built to be alittle more precision oriented. The larue is in my 20" service rifle build with irons. I havent shot either in a while but I do have a few 100 80 elds left over from when i was doing work ups for my 224V (85.5 and 88 elds shot better).
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Posted: 6/28/2021 12:30:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott_S: bp, why do you recommend lighter contour barrels? If the OP is shooting from a bench or prone only, I see weight as a good thing in mitigating the already mild recoil of the .223/5.56. Spotting one's own shots is pretty handy. SPR or DMR/Service Rifle profiles are not light. DMR/SR barrels are very close to 1" diameter under the handguard, the DMR is a better choice because the fluting reduces weight. If you want to spot your shots simply screw on a muzzle brake, something that isn't an option with a most bull barrels. You won't be able to tell the difference as far as accuracy is concerned using a SPR barrel vs. a full bull barrel but you will have an upper you can use for multiple roles, not just off a bench. For $275 WOA's SPR barrels are a steal. Even their DMR 20" with flutes under the handguard for around $400 is a bargain. Neither one of these barrels are light by anyone's description but they are at least useable, not boat anchors. |
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Posted: 6/28/2021 12:34:59 PM EDT
[#16]
I can't recall the company's name that produced "Hoplite" profile barrels, they were approximately .850" under the handguard and .730" from the gas block to the muzzle. This is an excellent medium profile and very similar to WOA's SPR barrels.
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Posted: 6/28/2021 2:53:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#17]
The Berger 70 grain VLD is definitely capable of sub-MOA precision when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at shorter distances.
  ... |
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Posted: 6/28/2021 5:30:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon: The Berger 70 grain VLD is definitely capable of sub-MOA precision when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at shorter distances. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/berger_70_vld_10_shot_group_at_100_yards-1994528.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/berger_70_vld_loaded_cartridge_01-1994526.jpg ... Yes it is just not the Bushmaster Varminter of mine. The 1-7 twist DSA 16" likes them. The RPR likes them too. |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 3:21:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By borderpatrol: I can't recall the company's name that produced "Hoplite" profile barrels, they were approximately .850" under the handguard and .730" from the gas block to the muzzle. This is an excellent medium profile and very similar to WOA's SPR barrels. what upper is that from... I want to see options for getting into it too 
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Posted: 7/23/2021 10:50:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I can't recall the company's name that produced "Hoplite" profile barrels, they were approximately .850" under the handguard and .730" from the gas block to the muzzle. This is an excellent medium profile and very similar to WOA's SPR barrels. Superior Barrels ? https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Superior_Barrels__Lothar_Walther_barrels_Hard_Blue__andamp__some_without_it/124-375596/ |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:39:35 PM EDT
[#21]
atheris makes a top notch upper i have one in 6.5 grendle it shoots 1/2 moa out to 600 with sie 107 tmk
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MS, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:36:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon: The Berger 70 grain VLD is definitely capable of sub-MOA precision when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at shorter distances. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/berger_70_vld_10_shot_group_at_100_yards-1994528.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/berger_70_vld_loaded_cartridge_01-1994526.jpg ... The Berger 70 VLDs are superbly accurate well under MOA but are quite sensitive to seating depth. At least that was the case in my particular precision AR. I had to seat them out to absolute maximum magazine length to do them justice. They will stabilize in 1:9, too. I bought them for that reason, but they also do great from 1:8, as would be expected. |
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