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Posted: 1/29/2019 4:05:09 AM EDT
I figured I would share my current reloading process for long range...This is not a "must do it this way" thread, this is to share my process that will hopefully both help those who are just learning to reload precision ammo, as well as a few methods that may help those who have loaded quality long range ammo for years...So besides the equipment, you will also need some specifications for your caliber of choice...So I download a SAAMI spec drawing of both my chamber and cartridge..This gives me every dimension I will need to produce quality ammo...So lets get started...
Chamber... Attached File Cartridge... Attached File So the first step is to de-prime the cartridges with a universal de-primer... Attached File Once de-primed the cases are run thru a FART tumbler with soap and SS pins, then dried... Attached File The first step after getting them clean is a careful inspection..I am looking for obvious damage, I am looking for primer pocket sizing, split necks, and I am looking for casehead separation.. First, I use a tool to check for primer fit and depth...if the big end of the tool fits, the pocket /case is junk... if the seat isn't deep enough it is cut to depth/uniformed...(same with flash hole deburring).. Correct... Attached File Loose pocket... Attached File I use a modified hook tool to check for case head separation, it is easy to "feel" as you run the sharp point of the hook across the base of the inner wall right above the case head...It will actually "click" as it goes over the crack... Attached File Next each case will be annealed to soften the necks and shoulders for sizing..this will also extend case life...I anneal differently from most..I use a hotter Map gas torch and 750* Templaq with a electric screwdriver to spin the case...I used to paint the inside of the neck, but have found with the hotter torch that it is easier to just paint the outside..both melt the Templaq at the same time..This puts the burnt off templaq on the outside where it is easier to clean off instead of inside on the bullet seating surface..I do dump the hot cases in water, not to stop the heat, but because the water makes the burn't templaq come right off... Cases ready to anneal.. Attached File Attached File Attached File Once annealed, the cases are run thru a tumbler of corncob to dry and remove any contaminants....freshly annealed on the left, annealed and tumbled on the right.. Attached File Next, the cases are lubed and the shoulder is bumped back .002" from the longest case...I use a separate shoulder bump die and a separate neck bushing die..I prefer this method because it allows me to focus on each single operation performed.. Longest case from my chamber.. Attached File So I set my shoulder die up in the press and slowly work down to the perfect spot, then put a line from the die body down across the press..this is my zero mark..Now as each case goes in I start with the die loosened slightly and "bump " the shoulder, measure, then tighten as needed to get to the correct 2.720" measurement.. Attached File Bumped back .002" Attached File Next I will get the necks prepped..I use RP brass, not the best for neck consistency, but not the worse...I do a light neck turning on mine, I also use a bushing die and a mandrel die to control neck tension...I have found neck tension to be a big part of accuracy and consistency, so I spend a lot of time trying to get it right...I have found from thickest to thinnest spot over a large selection of RP brass for the neck thickness to run from .0135". to .016"..I set for .0145" which gives me an average .0145"+.0145"+.308"=.337"-.002"-.335" for my bushing size...But to turn the necks I need a certain size to go on the internal mandrel... So once run thru the bushing die, the cases will be run over a mandrel die which makes the internal neck perfectly round and opens it to the needed size for the turning mandrel..I use a RCBS manual trim pro with the RCBS neck turner kit for turning necks.. neck bushing die with an assortment of bushings... Attached File Mandrel die with mandrels.. Attached File Neck turner set up... Attached File Turned neck, notice the goal isn't to remove all the material, just the high spots... Attached File Attached File Once the necks are turned the cases are run back thru the bushing die once more to set them for final neck sizing... Then the cases are run thru the mandrel die with the final neck tension mandrel(.306") in place.. Finally the cases are run over a case trimmer to set case length...I use an electric RCBS trim pro 2 with a RCBS 3-head cutter which trims case length, internally deburrs and chamfers all in one step...It has proven to be very consistent from case to case, and OAL is controlled from the casehead versus from a shoulder that may be inconsistent from case to case and throw off OAL.. Attached File It produces very consistent cases... Attached File And the neck is very consistent from case to case.. Attached File At this point, most reloaders would consider this ammo ready to reload and good to go.. I add steps here that I feel add neck tension consistency and those steps consist of a second annealing, followed by a second trip thru the tumbler full of corncob and a final trip under the mandrel die without lube...Then the cases are primed, charged with powder, a bullet seated and concentricity checked and straightened as needed...I am not ready to load this ammo yet, but will start in a few days, so I will leave a place to add to it if you guys want to see that part as well... Attached File |
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Saved...
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I’m interested in seeing the rest of your process.
What does the 2nd annealing do that wasnt covered in the first? |
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Chaos, confusion, despair....my work is done here. Murphy
Did you just realize the closest you'll ever be to becoming a hero is wearing your underwear outside your pants? Madcap72 |
Originally Posted By MaxxII:
I’m interested in seeing the rest of your process. What does the 2nd annealing do that wasnt covered in the first? View Quote |
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I used to make 4140 & 4150, now I make Cu alloys.
OH, USA
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Nice tutorial, looking forward to the rest of it.
Of course, what else are you going to do in AK in the winter |
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
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Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Nice tutorial, looking forward to the rest of it. Of course, what else are you going to do in AK in the winter View Quote I will add here, this brass started as 215 once fired new ammo cases I set out last winter for use with this rebuilt rifle...I started working up loads with 50 cases, then once the load was established added in the rest of the cases...The load is stout, and consists of the Berger 230 grain hybrid target, RL-33 powder and a RP 9.5 magnum primer...The rifle is chambered for the 230 and pushes the 230 to 3220fps... Attached File I put just over 650 rounds thru it last summer, and lost 29 cases total, the initial 50 cases are now on their 11th reload I have lost 29 cases total over that time period...13 to internal casehead cracks, 10 to loose primer pockets, 3 early on to split necks, and 3 to physical damage from the earthquake we had.... Attached File Ballistics... Attached File |
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Nice write up. Appreciate the step by step pics too.
I haven't turned necks yet, but interested in learning the process. Curious what gauge are you using to measure the wall thickness at the neck? Tubing micrometer or something else? Definitely looking forward to seeing the rest of your loading process. |
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Originally Posted By Blowout:
Nice write up. Appreciate the step by step pics too. I haven't turned necks yet, but interested in learning the process. Curious what gauge are you using to measure the wall thickness at the neck? Tubing micrometer or something else? Definitely looking forward to seeing the rest of your loading process. View Quote Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Neck tension is a critical part to precision reloading/shooting that's not talked about enough ,nice write-up so far
You could save yourself a ton of time by changing your annealing process. How many bottles of templaq do you go through in a year? |
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USS Ranger (cv-61)
'86-'90 "You know, Heaven has a wall, gate, and a strict immigration policy while Hell has open borders." |
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
Neck tension is a critical part to precision reloading/shooting that's not talked about enough ,nice write-up so far You could save yourself a ton of time by changing your annealing process. How many bottles of templaq do you go through in a year? View Quote Haven't been feeling very good this week, but will try and get some ammo loaded tomorrow.. Besides loading my normal long range load with the 230 Berger's, I will also start load work on some 200 grain barnes LRX's and some 125 grain barnes solids that I have had for years... Attached File |
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Excellent writeup. I admire your patience. How big a lots do you do?
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Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara |
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Excellent writeup. I admire your patience. How big a lots do you do? View Quote |
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OK, got the 230 Bergers loaded today, 74 rounds done....
I can use both an old RCBS(Pact built)dispenser/scale combo and a new RCBS charge master lite...today I only used the CM-L for dispensing charges, which were then run across a gem pro 250 to verify..I have had great results doing it this way and today was no different, My charge weight for this load is 99.0 grains of RL-33..If anyone tries any of my loads, they must be worked up to.. First step is to prime the cases, I use an old RCBS hand primer, because I like the feel better...Alway verify your primers are seated a couple thousandths under flush.. Attached File Next I use a flashlight to verify every case is empty inside and a primer is seated..This insures flash hole aren't plugged/primers seated backwards/SS pins stuck in case... Attached File Now I start throwing charges, checking them and charging cases... Attached File Attached File Once all the cases are charged, I again verify with a flashlight that none are over/under charged... Attached File Next comes bullet seating, again, because of the long magnum case, long bullet, and a sleeved seating die, this work is done on a summit press. Attached File Compared to a loaded round in the rock chucker with no die screwed into it.. Attached File I set COAL off of the ogive, in this case 3.1110"(.010" off lands) which gives an Cartridge OAL of 3.8755"...And this is where your neck tension variations will show up..I have found if neck tension varies much from case to case, seating depth will vary as well..Yes the pressure you put on the handle can affect it as well, but I find the more consistent my neck tension is, the better the bullets seat case to case...out of 74 cases tonight, only 3 varied by more then .0005"..All 3 that did were .001" or a touch more from seated depth and required a second throw with a firm bottom on the press handle. This I feel is a direct result of the second anneal/mandrel die...Those 3 rounds will be used as sighters/foulers... Attached File Attached File Attached File The final operation is to run them over a concentricity gauge and verify runout..I keep runout under .001", anything over that becomes a sighter/fouler..I find the high side, then use the handle of a snap on screwdriver(holding it by the shank) to lightly "tap" down the high side.. Attached File Low point found, gauge "zeroed"... Attached File Then spun to find the high side.. Attached File Once found I hold the case with my finger under the neck with the "high" side pointed up... Attached File And then a light tap with the screwdriver handle and recheck... Attached File So I still need to work up some loads for the 200 grain barnes LRX and the 125 grain barnes solids..Maybe this weekend...This is the system that works for me, not "the" way to reload all ammo, but "a" way to..Hopefully if nothing else maybe it will give someone a new method/step that helps their ammo be more consistent/accurate/reliable... ' |
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Timing couldn't be more perfect for this thread. I'm headed down this path currently; your insight and information sharing has been very valuable to me.
Many thanks! SS |
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IYAOYAS
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Originally Posted By SideSalad:
Timing couldn't be more perfect for this thread. I'm headed down this path currently; your insight and information sharing has been very valuable to me. Many thanks! SS View Quote |
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AKSR;
Beautifully done tutorial. Thanx for the time & effort! - R - |
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Fantastic write-up.
I will never get close to that level of preparation. But there are a few items I think I can incorporate that may get me tighter. Txl |
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In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. Orwell
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Thanks guys... not feeling good enough too load today, but here's most of the equipment I use...
Case prep... Attached File Attached File Powder dispensing.. Attached File Measuring... Attached File |
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Thanks again for this write up and providing pics of all your process tools. I'm lacking any tools for neck turning and gives me a good idea how deep the dive can be to get into it.
Curious... when using mandrels to expand the neck, did you discover any difference between the Rockchucker and Summit press for obtaining concentric necks? |
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Originally Posted By Blowout:
Thanks again for this write up and providing pics of all your process tools. I'm lacking any tools for neck turning and gives me a good idea how deep the dive can be to get into it. Curious... when using mandrels to expand the neck, did you discover any difference between the Rockchucker and Summit press for obtaining concentric necks? View Quote |
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Thanks, yes it makes sense.
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Back on the loading bench today...loaded up 30 Barnes 200 grain LRX BT rounds for a magazine loadable bear round...
Barnes specifies 84-93 grains for the 200 grain TX FT, but does not show a load for the LRX BT, so we went 85.0 up to 94.0 in 1 grain increments loading 3 at each... First thing I had to do was figure out mag length for the accurate mag AICS CIP mags.. Attached File Then I built a dummy round using junk brass to make sure of seating depth... Attached File Then I stacked 4 more cases on to make sure that length would work ..... Attached File Which gave me an Ogive-OAL of Attached File I subtracted an extra .020" for a final OOAL of 3.0940"(COAL 3.760"), and commenced charging cases starting at 85.0 grains.. 86.0 charge ready to go... Attached File 30 rounds ready to run over the chrony...(as soon as the weather warms up) Attached File |
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Awesome write up. Where did you get the tool to measure the primer pockets? With brass prep like that I'd be shocked if those rounds didn't shoot lights out!
ETA: Looks like This one? |
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Rule #1: Single women over 25 are like parking spots at Wal-Mart, they're either handicapped or way the fuck out there. --mech4matsnova
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Originally Posted By AR167:
Awesome write up. Where did you get the tool to measure the primer pockets? With brass prep like that I'd be shocked if those rounds didn't shoot lights out! ETA: Looks like This one? View Quote https://ballistictools.com/store/ |
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It's threads like this that remind me I'm a slacker
Do you mind going into more detail about your annealing process? That's next on my list to try. Awesome write up. Thanks! |
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Will not shelter in place
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Originally Posted By right_rudder:
It's threads like this that remind me I'm a slacker Do you mind going into more detail about your annealing process? That's next on my list to try. Awesome write up. Thanks! View Quote Sure thing... So as I said earlier I use a hotter map gas torch.. Attached File I also use a B&D screw-driver to spin the brass..doesn't have to be fast, just consistent...I pick a socket that will just allow the brass to slide in/out easily..in this case a 1/4" drive 9/16" semi deep... Attached File Attached File And for knowing when the right temp is reached, liquid Tempilaq(750*)with thinner.. Attached File I "paint" the top of the outside of the case necks/shoulders, I paint the whole thing, a simple line that is visible as its spinning in the flame is all that's needed, but I like the ease of seeing the whole top coated... With a propane torch it may not get hot fast enough to allow the brass to hit temp when the temp indicator melts if its on the outside, so for cooler torch setups you may have to paint inside the neck..I don't like this method because first, it is hard to know if you got the shoulder to temp, and because as the Tempilaq burns off it leaves a residue...I prefer my inner necks to stay pristine brass, and not have to worry about the tempilaq residue thats remains... Attached File I use a pan with a bit of water in it..not to keep the case head from getting to hot, but because the water helps soften the Tempilaq residue, making it easier to get it all off... Attached File The easy thing to do here would be buy/build your own annealing machine, which may be the best way to accomplish annealing..I don't mind the "hand" method, and by using tempilaq on every cases I know that every case got to temp...I also would experiment with junk cases before jumping right to throwing your 3 buck a case super widget cases into the flame... You can end up with not enough heat on the brass... Attached File Or too much heat... Attached File Instead of the right amount of heat... Attached File Hopefully this explains my process, if not please ask any questions you have.. |
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That's awesome. I think this might be my spring project.
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Will not shelter in place
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On the day shift at the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Originally Posted By erud: Holy crap, you are doing all of this work for hunting loads? View Quote |
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I figured I should update this thread, after finally getting out to shoot for the first time this summer..I shot the 200 grain barnes LRX rounds...Results weren't bad, I yanked 2 shots when the guy a few benches down fired off his 50 bmg right as I was firing, both yanks are marked... I will be doing a further load up on the 4 red circled loads, all show potential with best accuracy off the low(86) node but a better node at the 89-90-91 node...Will have to test and see what a 10 shot round produces...
Attached File |
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Curious what 90.2gr would do.
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This is a great write up and thank you @aksnowrider for giving such a detailed explanation. I am going to steal a couple of things from your post to add to my process
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Originally Posted By nukepwr: This is a great write up and thank you @aksnowrider for giving such a detailed explanation. I am going to steal a couple of things from your post to add to my process View Quote Thanks, that was my intent when I made it was to help others, if nothing else show them some of the processes a person can do, and hopefully at least give their own process a once over to make it better.... |
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Terrific write up on your process. Love to watch.
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Great stuff OP. My son is a top level PRS shooter and I got him started doing his own loading years ago. I was a range officer for many years in the league and I'm begging you to add ONE MORE STEP to your process. No tools required. I see that you use a light to verify that you charged each case. Great! Now after you seat a bullet hold the round up to your ear and shake it to CONFIRM there is powder in that case. After watching untold hundreds of thousands of rounds go down range I only had ONE shooter with a squib round that popped with primer only and the guy didn't catch it and JAMMED another round in and pulled the trigger. I was only a couple of feet from him when it went off. Fortunately he was shooting through a wooden barricade such that the wood caught almost all of the flying metal. His face caught some and it scared the piss out of the guy. Destroyed his gun.
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Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: Great stuff OP. My son is a top level PRS shooter and I got him started doing his own loading years ago. I was a range officer for many years in the league and I'm begging you to add ONE MORE STEP to your process. No tools required. I see that you use a light to verify that you charged each case. Great! Now after you seat a bullet hold the round up to your ear and shake it to CONFIRM there is powder in that case. After watching untold hundreds of thousands of rounds go down range I only had ONE shooter with a squib round that popped with primer only and the guy didn't catch it and JAMMED another round in and pulled the trigger. I was only a couple of feet from him when it went off. Fortunately he was shooting through a wooden barricade such that the wood caught almost all of the flying metal. His face caught some and it scared the piss out of the guy. Destroyed his gun. View Quote Damn, great advice, and I will add it to the list, I am very anal about double and triple checking everything.... |
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This thread is much appreciated!!
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