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Posted: 12/3/2018 1:28:24 PM EDT
Having a hard time understanding some things about McMillan stocks and where to go to get one ordered. First off, I will obviously be going to a competent gunsmith for all work but thought it would best to try to learn about McM first and see if there are cheaper options ordering online. Stock in question is A5
Specs R700 clone action Rem-Varmint contour barrel 6.5 Creedmoor Badger M5 DBM bottom metal 1) Do I need to search out a stock that is inleted to my action and barrel contour first? 2) What about the DBM bottom metal inlet? Same as above? 3) How does the adjustable cheek-piece work? I see there are different hardware options and thumbwheels. How does the base A5 cheek riser come? 4) I know McM now says that action bedding is not necessary. Most gunsmiths seem to still recommend. Anything to consider here when ordering stock? 5) Do I try to order the stock with front / rear QD flush cups or let gunsmith handle this? 6) Machined in aluminum pillars ($28) or Edge Technology ($100)... i'm confused I see why most folks just go with a nice chassis and be done with it. I have an XLR and do like it, but I want to go back to to a conventional stock as this rifle with double as a precision shooter and something I occasionally hunt with. Thanks for any assistance. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2018 2:02:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RFutch]
[#1]
Originally Posted By alpha0815: 1) Do I need to search out a stock that is inleted to my action and barrel contour first? Any under the Tatical or Remington Stocks should work but It's best to ask MCM this question. When you order you will specify barrel contour. 2) What about the DBM bottom metal inlet? Same as above? When you place your order you will specify what DBM you are using. 3) How does the adjustable cheek-piece work? I see there are different hardware options and thumbwheels. How does the base A5 cheek riser come? Base A5 has no Adj cheek piece. Ask them if they can do a KMW and what costs would be.It is the best Adj cheek piece on the market 4) I know McM now says that action bedding is not necessary. Most gunsmiths seem to still recommend. Anything to consider here when ordering stock? Get aluminum pillers installed by MCM. Neither of mine are bedded. Both shoot bugholes. 5) Do I try to order the stock with front / rear QD flush cups or let gunsmith handle this? Have MCM do this not the gunsmith. 6) Machined in aluminum pillars ($28) or Edge Technology ($100)... i'm confused. Edge is a carbon fiber shell not fiberglass. . |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 2:05:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks RFutch....huge help!
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2018 2:10:51 PM EDT
[#3]
No problem. Just be sure before you order. About half way through the lead time they will send you a confirmation of what you have spec'ed out and you will have to sign off on it. After that they will build the stock off that sheet.
Let me know if I can help with anything else. |
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Posted: 12/4/2018 9:04:11 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm just going to add that my McMillan stock did not need bedding, and my rifle shoots great.
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Posted: 12/4/2018 10:41:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Have you looked at the Manners with the Mini Chassis? Bolt in and go and works great. The Manners T4 is very similar to the A5.
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Posted: 12/4/2018 11:22:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Don’t know much about Manners but they look great and know they are well respected.
So the T4 is basically drop in ready? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2018 8:08:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Get a Manners with a mini-chassis and you will be money and time ahead. And in the end I think the Manners is a much better stock.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2018 8:24:49 AM EDT
[#8]
I’ve had both and they are both equal in quality. I like the feel of the McMillan stocks better.
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Posted: 12/5/2018 8:55:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alpha0815:
Don’t know much about Manners but they look great and know they are well respected. So the T4 is basically drop in ready? |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 11:56:01 PM EDT
[#10]
So looks like the Manners T4A w/ mini chassis around $1100-$1200? And not sure if that includes QD flush cups.
I’m going to get a quote from McM next week to compare and figure in Badger M5 bottom metal. This is going to be pricey. Probably won’t be able to get much more than a couple hundred for my XLR chassis that will be getting replaced. |
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Posted: 12/6/2018 9:42:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Yeah a good stock is not cheap but it will last for many years. My first manners that I got my first 6.5 Creedmoor built on is going on 11 years old and been beat up at matches and still going strong.
I think you will find that once speced out and dbm and bedding is added the prices will be similar but you also have to remember that once the McMillan is bedded you have to use it with that action or rebed it for another. With the Manners mini chassis you can swap it around from rifle to rifle with no problems. I have one stock now that has been moved from a .308 to a .22 to another .308 and one that has done the same with a different .308 and a .223. Make it nice to be able to easily move it if needed. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 8:09:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alpha0815:
So looks like the Manners T4A w/ mini chassis around $1100-$1200? And not sure if that includes QD flush cups. I'm going to get a quote from McM next week to compare and figure in Badger M5 bottom metal. This is going to be pricey. Probably won't be able to get much more than a couple hundred for my XLR chassis that will be getting replaced. |
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Posted: 12/13/2018 10:58:03 AM EDT
[#13]
@RFutch
@KentuckyMarksman Do you remember what "fill" you went with? For an A5, I'm trying to decide between "sporter" or "sniper" fill. I think ideally, no heavier than 3.5 lbs. I certainly know weight adds benefit while shooting stationary but I would be lugging this rifle around on the occasional hunt. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 11:14:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Mine is the standard fill (I guess they call that sporter?) and it weighs 3.5 lbs. with CDI bottom metal.
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Posted: 12/13/2018 11:52:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RFutch:
Mine is the standard fill (I guess they call that sporter?) and it weighs 3.5 lbs. with CDI bottom metal. |
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Posted: 12/13/2018 12:29:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Yeah don't get sniper fill unless you want a heavy stock. Had it in a couple stocks and it does add some weight.
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Posted: 12/13/2018 1:08:26 PM EDT
[#17]
It's the standard fill, so I guess that's their "Sporter Fill".
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 2:14:08 PM EDT
[#18]
One other thing to mention if you are getting a marble finish. When I ordered mine in 33% Tan 33% OD Green 33% Black, I was not aware the first color listed would most likely be the base color. I was wanting a green stock like Rob01's team mate Tony has and it turned out more tan than green. Still looks great but not quite what I was expecting. My second stock turned out exactly how I wanted though.
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Posted: 12/13/2018 5:19:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: alpha0815]
[#19]
So I got quotes on McMillan and Manners. Options are as similar as possible to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples. Bottom line, McM A5 is $1268 and TF4A is $1476. Is the Manners w/ mini chassis worth the additional $200? I didn't catch their lead time but McMillan is 6 months!!!
McM A5 Adjustable - Fiberglass - McMillan Camo (molded) - Standard Fill - Full Inlet (drop in) - Aluminum Pillars - Decelerator Buttpad w/ Spacer System - Clamp Bar (Round Knob) Cheek-Piece Hardware - 1 Sling Stud - 2 Flush Cups Price: $1268 (includes Badger M5 dbm) MCS-TF4A - Composite (Glass & Carbon Fiber) - Molded 3 Color Camo - Standard Fill - KMW Hardware - MCS DBM Mini Chassis Gen 2 - Adjustable Butt Spacer System - 1" Decelerator - 2 Flush Cups - 1 Sling Stud - 9/16" Pillars *Not sure if these are needed w/ mini chassis* Price: $1476 |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 5:45:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Not to me but YMMV. I had a mini chassis and it was nice but an unbedded MCM shoots just as good.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 6:48:45 PM EDT
[#21]
The cheapest bottom metal is going to run you $160 so keep that on mind. Check redhawk rifles for the McMillan.
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Posted: 12/13/2018 7:58:27 PM EDT
[#22]
If you add that $200 in for bedding they are the same price. You can shoot it unbedded but it's up to you. Once you bed then it's set for that rifle. The nice part of the mini chassis is it's able to be moved around from rifle to rifle is needed and no bedding required.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2018 8:47:55 AM EDT
[#23]
My wife's .243 (7.5-pound hunting rifle) isn't bedded in her purple McSwirly (rem classic pattern) and it seems to do okay.
IMG_20181112_121512_707 by Armed Ferret, on Flickr Yeah yeah I know "it's not a 3,742 shot group!!" well it's a hunting rifle, and I was low on 85 TSX's so for load dev I put together 5 different 3-shot loads instead of 3 5-shot loads. Figures this was the first 3 I put through the gun. 
(in fairness, it was also throwing 80-grain Remington PSPs, 100-grain Hornady BTSPs, and 95-grain NBT all WAY under an inch, many of them under half an inch, verified at 1.5" or less at 200 as well) Just an illustration that it doesn't *NEED* to be bedded. If you're looking to eek out the very last bit of precision from a given rifle then absolutely, bedding can make a difference. But it isn't exactly mandatory. 
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Posted: 12/14/2018 9:19:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mauser48A:
The cheapest bottom metal is going to run you $160 so keep that on mind. Check redhawk rifles for the McMillan. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 5:22:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
My wife's .243 (7.5-pound hunting rifle) isn't bedded in her purple McSwirly (rem classic pattern) and it seems to do okay. https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4915/44946723275_7531f9a034_o.jpg IMG_20181112_121512_707 by Armed Ferret, on Flickr Yeah yeah I know "it's not a 3,742 shot group!!" well it's a hunting rifle, and I was low on 85 TSX's so for load dev I put together 5 different 3-shot loads instead of 3 5-shot loads. Figures this was the first 3 I put through the gun.
(in fairness, it was also throwing 80-grain Remington PSPs, 100-grain Hornady BTSPs, and 95-grain NBT all WAY under an inch, many of them under half an inch, verified at 1.5" or less at 200 as well) Just an illustration that it doesn't *NEED* to be bedded. If you're looking to eek out the very last bit of precision from a given rifle then absolutely, bedding can make a difference. But it isn't exactly mandatory. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2018 5:41:29 PM EDT
[#26]
I think the whole bedding thing gets blown way out of proportion. An older rifle, in a wood stock, yeah it probably would benefit from it.
The inlets on McMillan, and Manners for that matter, are so precise that I think the chances of a major improvement diminishes greatly. I have yet to see a before and after of either brand and how the groups improved. All you ever hear is "Well it should help". Not exactly quantifiable. OP, pick the stock with the features you like best. You won't be disappointed with either. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 6:19:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Yup either will work. I have bedded every McMillan stock I have owned and also my Manners that don't have the mini chassis. The inletting is good but the pillar bedding makes sure the fit is good.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 6:44:10 PM EDT
[#28]
One thing OP, McMillan has a standard 13.5" LOP. I find that 13.0" LOP is better, especially if you do any shooting in cold weather and are wearing a few layers of clothes. I find that too long a LOP is worse than too short.
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MD, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2018 1:13:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: That set up didn't need it. I wouldn't bet that every rifle/stock will shoot like that unbedded.
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Posted: 12/18/2018 7:00:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FZJ80:
One thing OP, McMillan has a standard 13.5" LOP. I find that 13.0" LOP is better, especially if you do any shooting in cold weather and are wearing a few layers of clothes. I find that too long a LOP is worse than too short. If I go A5 I will try it first before bedding. Even McMillan states that it’s not necessary. Rob, one thing I’m not clear on is do I need to spec “aluminum pillars” with the T4A mini chassis? It gave me the option when building online but thought the mini chassis would be integrated without the need of traditional stock bedded pillars.? |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 7:36:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alpha0815: Good note. I typically prefer 13.75”-14” LOP. I would get spacer system with whatever I get. If I go A5 I will try it first before bedding. Even McMillan states that it’s not necessary. Rob, one thing I’m not clear on is do I need to spec “aluminum pillars” with the T4A mini chassis? It gave me the option when building online but thought the mini chassis would be integrated without the need of traditional stock bedded pillars.? https://mannersstocks.com/mcs-bdl-dbm-mini-chassis/ |
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