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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2019 10:44:55 PM EDT
MPBR zero for a "combat carbine" just makes a lot of sense. For a General Purpose HD gun being able to hit targets 25-300yds with little to no holds/corrections is obviously desirable. Let's face it though, your aiming for "Minute-of-Man" not "Minute-of-Angle".
Are any of you using MPBR for your precision rig? Or do you use the traditional 100yd or 200yd zero and make scope adjustments? also, @LRRPF52 you've messed with the 65G more than anyone....what would be your best guess for MPBR in 65? 12" to 18" barrels. Thanks |
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Posted: 12/31/2019 11:04:38 PM EDT
[#1]
It was part of my precision rifle course.
Short time to hit, no time to dial in the scope. I think we were at the 200 yard line at the time, maybe 300. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2019 11:17:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Some shooters use a version of MPBR in some match conditions. They just dont adjust their hold inside 200 yards.
I dont know why you would worry about MPBR with optics with either BDC reticles or even more advanced mil hash marks. Defeats the "precision" aspect. Strelok + and Strelok Pro should be able to cook up a decent MPBR with good data input. |
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Posted: 12/31/2019 11:24:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AL_Safety]
[#3]
Using a 9 inch variable for the hit, my 264 win mag has a maximum point blank range of 375 yards or so, can't remember the specifics. This is how I set up my hunting rifles though - 9 inch target circle, for max range with no adjustment. Then I print out an adjustment data card for longer range and tape it too the stock. I know I need to aim low for close range targets, and a little high for longer range. From a mule deer hunting standpoint, this has worked well for me in Colorado hunts. Clearly, this approach doesn't work for precision shooting, but it functions fine when you need to drop live targets.
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Posted: 12/31/2019 11:27:47 PM EDT
[#4]
It all depends on you usage. If you were in a environment that guaranteed a shot that fell within your point blank range it’s a great thing to know. Honestly the more data you gather makes you better across the board.
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Posted: 1/1/2020 12:03:27 AM EDT
[#5]
The more I vary things up, the more I like a single point zero like the 100 yard zero for 5.56. All DOPE is up. MPBR isn't really for precision. It's about keeping POI with 6" or so of POA.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2020 2:57:20 PM EDT
[#6]
No, because +/- 3" at close distances is not "precision".
100 yard zero, and dial/hold from there. Always. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2020 3:08:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Low power optic meant for fighting? Sure point blank range setup. You will be firing lots of rounds potentially. A 200-ish yard zero working at ranges to 300 yards is perfectly acceptable.
Long distance where priority is on making first round hit? Have a zero and dial for range. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2020 6:16:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CajunRebel]
[#8]
I zero my SBR rifle at 50yds using MY SHTF ammo. According to Strelok, the far zero is 191yds - close enough to 200 for me. I could not find the MPBR feature within Strelok but an online calculator gives it at 225yds for a 3" target. It works for me. As with any weapon system, you have to work out the variables for yourself. The odds for me engaging someone beyond 250-300yds in minimal and I doubt I could hit them with an AR15. If beyond 300yds is required I'm breaking out my 6.5 CM. My "precision" rifle is not for CQB, that's what my pistol and SBR is for.
BTW - My precision rifle is zeroed for 100yds and the PBR is 275yds, same 3" target. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2020 6:07:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#9]
If you are using a precision rifle for hunting and counting on the improved accuracy to extend effective ethical range, it makes sense to use a max point back range zero, as things can happen very fast with little time to use a holdover reticle or do any dialing. If you are hunting deer, a 6” circle represents the vitals. I want a point blank zero that gets no higher than 3” and ends at the -3” distance. Then, as long as you know the terrain and have used a range finder for reference points, it’s aim and shoot.
You can still have dope for longer distances and more time. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2020 8:53:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DevL]
[#10]
Originally Posted By BBTC_MH:
MPBR zero for a "combat carbine" just makes a lot of sense. For a General Purpose HD gun being able to hit targets 25-300yds with little to no holds/corrections is obviously desirable. Let's face it though, your aiming for "Minute-of-Man" not "Minute-of-Angle". Are any of you using MPBR for your precision rig? Or do you use the traditional 100yd or 200yd zero and make scope adjustments? also, @LRRPF52 you've messed with the 65G more than anyone....what would be your best guess for MPBR in 65? 12" to 18" barrels. Thanks Also, I am 99% sure you will not be using a 12" barreled rifle as a precision rifle. You will have a LPVO on it, but that is not a 10x+, adjustable parallax, exposed elevation dial precision scope. Here is a 10 shot group in 20 seconds drill at 320 yards. 
Same rifle, same distance, 5 rounds slow fire. 
They were not "point blank" dial zeros. |
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Posted: 1/17/2020 10:55:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Must have gotten lost, thought I was in the precision sub-forum?
283 yards...Not the farthest shat but does that look like point blank results or results of an adjusted zero?  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/18/2020 3:20:59 PM EDT
[#12]
An AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards shoots point blank from zero to 230 yards.
You'll never be over or under more than 2" using that zero. |
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Posted: 1/18/2020 4:54:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sea2summit]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
An AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards shoots point blank from zero to 230 yards. You'll never be over or under more than 2" using that zero.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/19/2020 6:50:12 PM EDT
[#14]
With today"s optics it's hard to go back to the MPBR unless your shooting a straight duplex reticle. I've found Strelock pro to be quite functional with my Redfield Accuplex.
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USA
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Posted: 1/19/2020 7:24:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I haven't had time to play with them much (@lazyengineer has a little bit I know) but the ACSS reticles from Primary Arms seem to be really great for the auto ranging
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2020 4:03:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BBTC_MH:
I haven't had time to play with them much (@lazyengineer has a little bit I know) but the ACSS reticles from Primary Arms seem to be really great for the auto ranging With all else, I tend to find the 200 yard zero is the most general purpose (but not always!). I consider 2" of my POA deviation as my personal Max Point Blank Range span of impacts criteria. When I run a 200 yard zero, in general that means all shots from 36 yards out to 225 yards, will be within 2" of aim. I'm good with that. For what I do, the concept of a 24" span being MPBR is a big no-go. |
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Posted: 1/27/2020 2:41:47 AM EDT
[#17]
As just an interesting side bit of info...in WW2 the battle zero of the M-1 Garand gave effective hits to 540 yards.
Zeroed as such, the shooter aimed at the targets belt buckle and the max ord of the round was approx 22”. This gave hits to the torso from the muzzle to 540 with a single simple easy to learn hold. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2020 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#18]
I built an 18” 223 Wylde that’s primary purpose is longer range/ precision shooting, MK12 inspired gun shooting 70+ gr bullets. I zeroed my scope for 50, using the 50/200 zero giving my scope quick accurate 50-200 yard shots, Dial or hold over for everything else outside of 200 yards and a offset red dot for point blank 0-50 yards.
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Posted: 2/13/2020 3:29:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brazos:
As just an interesting side bit of info...in WW2 the battle zero of the M-1 Garand gave effective hits to 540 yards. Zeroed as such, the shooter aimed at the targets belt buckle and the max ord of the round was approx 22". This gave hits to the torso from the muzzle to 540 with a single simple easy to learn hold. 3rd page. http://www.jouster2.com/sea_stories/service_rifle_qualification_courses.pdf |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2020 10:33:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DevL]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
An AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards shoots point blank from zero to 230 yards. You'll never be over or under more than 2" using that zero. ALL precision optics on ARs in ALL calibers should use a 100y zero for the optic. I cant think of a single case where someone would select a 200 or 300 yard distance as the zero point of the elevation dial. PRECISION OPTIC being the key term... meaning exposed elevation, high magnification, adjustable parallax. If it does not have those three features, it is not a PRECISION OPTIC... your definition of precision optic may vary. |
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Posted: 2/13/2020 11:19:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL:
A 2" elevation error is 100% unacceptable on a 4" steel target. A 2" elevation error for any group is unacceptable for any precision optic out to 400+ yards. Past that, its just off by one or two clicks. .My point was that he should use a 100y zero ALWAYS (on a precision optic) and then dial to his 200y hold for large targets without the need for elevation adjustment from 5 yards to 200+ yards, then again, if he can see a FFP mil type reticle, he can just know his holds with a 100y zero and leave it there, using his holds on reticle. ALL precision optics on ARs in ALL calibers should use a 100y zero for the optic. I cant think of a single case where someone would select a 200 or 300 yard distance as the zero point of the elevation dial. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL:
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
An AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards shoots point blank from zero to 230 yards. You'll never be over or under more than 2" using that zero. ALL precision optics on ARs in ALL calibers should use a 100y zero for the optic. I cant think of a single case where someone would select a 200 or 300 yard distance as the zero point of the elevation dial. My shooting history of "across the course" tournaments started my habit of using 200 yard zeros in my early 20's. Fourty years later it still works. I know I'm 1.5" to 1.75" high at 100 which will have no effect on my ability to make hits. Because the course of fire is 200/300/600 yards I establish zeros and record them. Since the introduction of scopes several years ago nothing has changed in my process. Many scopes with BDC reticles (ACOG's) force the user to zero at 100 to use the factory BDC lines. Simple crosshairs or MOA/MILDOT reticles work great using a 200 yard zero. My only complaint regarding ACOG's 4x models is their crosshairs have a 200 yard hash mark. It clutters the aiming point and interferes with precision aiming. Their 3.5x models eliminate the 200 yard hash mark completely, going from 100 to 300 and it's a huge improvement. A 200 yard zero works for me. Over 90% of the time I point and shoot with no need whatsoever to make any adjustments or try to compensate using my hold. |
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Posted: 2/13/2020 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit:
By never you must mean except for between ~80 to 160? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/326526/4AAEAC3C-3856-40E6-9503-E0D7CECF2879_png-1239536.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
An AR-15 zeroed at 200 yards shoots point blank from zero to 230 yards. You'll never be over or under more than 2" using that zero. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/326526/4AAEAC3C-3856-40E6-9503-E0D7CECF2879_png-1239536.JPG If I had to hit a small target I would simply aim an inch high or low depending on my range estimation. The shooter has the option to employ Kentucky windage and slight elevation offsets to hit the intended target. |
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Posted: 2/14/2020 7:40:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I don't shoot ball ammo. My standard load is a 69 Sierra Match King's and they clock in at 2750 fps over my chronograph. Even if I was 2.3" high or low over a 230 yard flight path it would not effect my ability to make hits on target. The shooter needs to know how his load behaves and place the crosshairs accordingly. If I had to hit a small target I would simply aim an inch high or low depending on my range estimation. The shooter has the option to employ Kentucky windage and slight elevation offsets to hit the intended target. |
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