Ok, I'm a little bit green despite my seasoned age. I've plinked 1000 a few times with my Savage .308 and it's pretty good for that with the proper ammo and loading.

So what if I wanted to build an AR-15 rifle for the same distance. What would be a good, reasonable caliber? 6.5 Grendel? .224 Valkyrie? Hot loaded 5.56?

Looking for guidance here - if it's an absolutely terrible idea, feel free to tell me that too. Just wanting to reach out with something other than my Savage, and maybe even build a competitive rifle for the 1000 yard range.

Oh, we have a nearby 1000 yard range - that's why I'm thinking the way I am. I'm pretty sure I can get the 5.56 out to 600, but I'm not sure about the extra 400.

Thanks, all, for any commentary.

I would guess 6arc, 6.5g or creed

The guys who own a local gun store here are into the long range shooting and competitions. They generally use the .224 valk just from talking with them. They use a 6.5 creed as well but more fond of the .224

224V would get you there.  Hand load either 80gr elds or 85.5gr bergers.

Edit:  no "hot loaded" 5.56/223 will get you to 1k accurately.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Yeah, hot 5.56 probably isn't a good idea for a few reasons. :)

6.5 Timberwolf is probably the best 1000yd cartridge that can fit in the AR-15 platform.

Less than 300" of drop at that distance, and still has more energy at that distance than a 357 Magnum does at the muzzle.

I'm getting about 413" of drop out of my 6mm ARC at 1,000 yds.

Do you reload?  Are you opposed to a wildcat?  

Some folks call it the .224 Predator, others call it the .224 Grendel. It’s the 6.5 Grendel case necked down to .224. I have one, I’ve only shot a few medium loads thru it, it beast the Valkyrie by 150-200 fps with the same bullets.

I’m liking it so far but I’m still probably favoring the 6.5 Grendel for long range and the .224 Grendel for short to medium range varmints. Also concerned about barrel life/throat erosion, possibly similar to .220 Swift that I had decades ago. Too early to tell, very limited experience on my part.

Maybe not optimal, and there are easier ways to get there, but I've witnessed a service rifle shooter at 1000 yards prone score 8 rings or better with a 4.5 power scope (4moa, I believe is what that would be) with this:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/10/9/new-berger-22-caliber-855-grain-long-range-hybrid-target-bullet

I guess this falls in the "because I want to prove I can" category.

I shoot the .224V to 1k and it's a dandy round for that. There are some really good .224 heavy bullets now, to include some that work great on game. In addition, recoil is nil so you can watch your hits. I recommend it.

Thanks for all the ideas, y'all.

I'm kind of leaning towards Valkyrie (there is that really cool music), but I will research it a bit more.

I was going to say that it's nice to have readily available ammo, but I don't know if that even exists right now.

I do reload, but my dies are 40/10mm, 45, 38/357, and 308. doesn't mean I can't get more if I can find them. I have put the 308 dies to work for getting my Savage to 1000. (and as 1000 yard range goes, it was a bargain of a rifle compared to some of the really hopped-up rigs I see at the range).

What grain projectiles are good for Valk?

with as much boiler room as it has, the biggest goddamned pills you can find and that your barrel will stabilize.

For 22-24” barrels, the 80’s are amazing.

For a sub 20” barrel, the heavy 88-95’s may extend your supersonic range.

I’ve built 3, and all were capable of sub 3/4moa pretty regularly with the 80 eld’s and h4895 at 2929-2980fps. Run those ballistics in your calc. and you’ll see that 1k isn’t out of reach and beats most of the heavies inside of 1100yds with drop/wind deflection.

224 valkyrie or 6.5 grendel. I've shot my old grendel out to 1000,1100yds easily. I am currently ready to shoot my newly built valkyrie tho.

Surprised how guys post the creed as it doesn't fit the ar15 platform.

223 is outstanding at 1000 yards, just not in an AR.

A 223 bolt gun is a ton of fun loaded with heavies.

Valkyrie & Grendel are what I would try out of a small block. I finally stretched my Creedmore out to 1k and it was a ton of fun. Planning on going even further with a new build.

Grendel is very dobale to 1K.
I have the Larue UU kit in Grendel and it's a waste of ammo at 500 yards.

interesting.. splain' me  

I can't tell you if it's truly "best" or not, but this is exactly what the 6mm ARC was designed for.

wonder what this load would do...    https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/10/9/new-berger-22-caliber-855-grain-long-range-hybrid-target-bullet

6mm ARC is going to be better at long range than even the Valkyrie.  6mm 105-110gr bullets with their higher BC will get there with less wind drift and more splash on impact.

The valkyrie unfortunately has too long of a case to really handle the 88-90gr bullets well.  They end up stuffed too far into the case and become very finicky.  The 75-80gr stuff is fine, but I think you'll notice a more pronounced lack of splash, and increased wind drift and variation on wind drift, even if the trajectory is a little flatter.

ETA: I run 6mm ARC in a bolt action for PRS/NRL competition and have no problem stretching it to 1200-1400.  Right in there with the guys shooting the BR family cartridges.

I’d be interested to know your velocity with the bolt gun. When comparing the valkyrie with 80 eld’s (2930fps) and the 6ARC w/ 105 hybrids (2700fps, anticipated for a 22” gas gun), the valkyrie beats it with wind deflection to at least 1200yds.

I’m not anti ARC, I actually built my 6ARC upper last night (22” Bartlein w/ +2 gas), but they are extremely similar with only the ARC having a bit more energy on target at extended ranges according to my ballistic apps. Inside of 800yds, where the bulk of PRS shots occur, the 224Valkyrie has a pretty sizable lead on wind deflection due to the increased muzzle velocity w/ 80’s.

The bolt gun has a 28" barrel on it, so bear that in mind, but I can push 110 A-tips into the 2920-2940fps range with LeverEvolution and CFE 223 book data.  With Varget (what I've used most of this season) it's more like 2760-2780.  Varget doesn't have the speed but the current barrel hammers with it.

As with any caliber v. caliber comparison it depends which bullets, barrels, and load data you run.  I think they'll be very close regardless on paper, but the splash difference is immediately noticeable.  I've seen a few .22 Creeds, fast twist .22-250's, and Valkyries at the matches I've been to and it's rough spotting for them past 700.  Even 6mm's struggle depending on ground/veg conditions but the 15-30gr difference matters.  Everyone should do what makes them happy, but IMO there's something to a 2600-2800fps MV in terms of spotting your own shots.  Whether or not that's important to you is a personal call.  

For another point of comparison, I just put together a 24" AR-15 in 6 ARC that's pushing factory 108's at 2745, and 110 A-tip hand loads (29gr LeverEvolution) at 2730.   That one only has about 50 rounds on it so far but everything has shot very well.  I have another 18" upper and it's been a dream to get shooting with factory ammo and hand loads.

If you take a 110 Atip @ 2730 vs. any 75-80gr class .224 bullet is going to do better for wind and be pretty comparable for elevation (not that elevation matters with modern calculators, IMO).  

If you go 90gr A-tip vs. 110gr A-tip they're pretty spot-on... However, I'd caveat that by saying my experience with more than a few .224 Valk. gassers is that they are extremely tempermental with the 85+gr bullets.

Just the way it is, the Valkyrie excels with the 75-80gr bullets, and the ARC works well with the 105-110gr stuff.  Case and chamber designs + magazine length restrictions.  This is from my 1st hand experience.  YMMV.

Thanks for your perspective and data. It’s pretty incredible what the A tips can do with Leverevolution. I’ll add that combo into the mix when testing the 6ARC. Hopefully it’ll be temp. Stable enough to work well.

Edit: looking over some data, won’t you have to be roughly 120-175fps slower than the 2730fps mark with temp. stable powders? It appears that with the gas gun, achieving the 2730fps would result in choosing velocity over temp stability. I’m assuming that’s why you went with Varget primarily for the bolt gun. Varget in a gasser at 24” would be maxing out in the 2570fps w/ 110’s, but it’s temp. stable. Any info on the Leverevolution charge change between summer/winter loading?

And I’d agree about the reduced speed for calling shots, especially from barricades. I detuned my 6creed load because the time of flight was just too fast for the 300-500yd targets when approaching 3100fps. It was very apparent when it was easier to spot my 260 at 2800fps but with even more recoil.

I know I’m kinda behind the 8-ball here as this thread is 2 months old. But since no one else has said it, I will.

You absolutely can shoot 1000 yds with a 5.56. We were doing exactly that 15 years ago, using 77gr SMKs. I used black hills ammo(I didn’t yet reload back then), out of a 20” rifle. We were getting hits consistently on steel silhouettes at 1000.

No, it’s not an optimal caliber to shoot at that kind of distance. Wind is absolutely critical and it doesn’t take much of an error or change to result in an outright miss. So yeah, lots of better choices in that regard.

While I’ve not had the opportunity to take it back out to 1000, I took that same rifle to a PRS type match several years ago. The longest stage was 800, so still getting out there. The biggest difficulty I had was getting the scorer to see the hits on the target, because the impacts weren’t as loud and obvious as the other calibers(and there were other stages being shot relatively close). But I had no issues hitting steel at 800 with it anyway. Again, I was using 77gr SMKs.

Were I still doing that kind of shooting, I would probably take a look at changing my load a bit because there are probably some better bullets out there now. Unfortunately that rifle had to go down the road to help pay for a transmission a while back.

Really that wasn’t a particularly complicated or expensive setup. It had a Model 1 Sales 20” Varminter upper half, with a threaded barrel. The lower was basically just a fixed stock, with a match trigger. It had one of the fixed 10x SS scopes with side parallax. And then just a Harris bipod. So, pretty basic really, and fairly obsolescent by today’s standards.

Every time I shoot my 224v I'm just amazed by how flat shooting it is for a .224 bullet.  The only issue with the valkyrie, besides u need to reload to have a round worth a damn, is it is VERY finicky when it comes to powder charge and bullet seating.  But once you find what ur barrel likes, stand by for insane accuracy.   My 88 elds im getting around 2750 fps.  80 elds I'm getting around 2925.

224 Valkyrie, 6mm ARC, 22 Grendel will get you there.

Replace 22 Grendel with 6.5G and you have the three best options with non-wildcat available ammo in the AR15 platform.

I rang steel at 1,000 meters pretty consistently with 75 gr match out of my 20" 5.56 and with 160 gr (I think) 16" .308 platform AR (R25 with custom barrel).

I wouldn't use either for serious work, though, as it took some doing to get on target (good spotter was critical).

As has been said, either 6.5 G or CM should work well.

As an aside, I can't wait to try that range with the 6.5 CM bolt gun I just built.  

Edit: I'm not familiar with the Valkyrie.

Just and update from my previous posts with the 24" 6mm ARC AR-15.  I've done some reloading work with it and determined that I can't do much better than the Hornady Match 108 load.  My LVR handloads and the factory match both line up between .75 and 1.1 MOA for 20-shot groups.  2730-2750fps with 108's.  This barrel loves the 108's so that's what I'm feeding it.  MV SD's on both are in the 10-13fps range for those 20 shot strings.

I've taken it out as far as 1200-1400yd a few times. The last time out I put 15 of 17 rounds on an IPSC at 1265 yards.  800-1000yd is not a problem.  The AR isn't as consistent as my bolt guns but it is definitely edging in on them.  Especially on barricades, though, if you tweak the handguard it will produce some erratic results that I don't see with a bolt gun.  You have to let the rifle ride a bag and can't pin it into a hard contact with the barricade.

Anyway, this has been the best/easiest "long range" semi-auto I've put together after several "meh" attempts with 5.56, .260, 6.5 Creedmoor, etc.  I'll never do a large frame AR again, and the 5.56 just kinda runs out of steam past 600-700yd.