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Posted: 10/17/2014 5:14:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ghostface]
I had my rifle built around a specific bullet. It was built around 190 grain Nosler custom competition bullet I played with the following combinations:
60.0 RL-22 WLR Winchester case 2835 fps from a 22.5 inch Rock 1/10 barrel I settled on the following because it is more accurate: 55.6 H4350 WLR or BR2 Hornady match case 2730 fps The RL22 is good for consistent 1/2 moa but the H4350 load has gotten me down in the .3s before out to 500. That's the furtherst I shot this load for measured groups. |
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[Last Edit: imitation_crab]
[#1]
24" barrel win m70
55.0 gr. IMR 4350, 180GR. Nosler Partion, CCI #200 2,749 fps avg. 15 shots, no pressure signs but Berger Manual says their max load was yielding 2700 fps. Federal Ammo published specs for their factory 180gr. Nos. Part load is 2,750 out of a 24" barrel. I feel like I could get 2800fps safely and other people are but I don't see the need. |
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[#2]
Originally Posted By imitation_crab:
24" barrel win m70 55.0 gr. IMR 4350, 180GR. Nosler Partion, CCI #200 2,749 fps avg. 15 shots, no pressure signs but Berger Manual says their max load was yielding 2700 fps. Federal Ammo published specs for their factory 180gr. Nos. Part load is 2,750 out of a 24" barrel. I feel like I could get 2800fps safely and other people are but I don't see the need. View Quote This is my pet load in my M70 classic stainless. I use 180 Nos Ballistic Tips though. |
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[Last Edit: jaroot]
[#3]
55 gr IMR 4350
168 SMK / Nosler CC CCI BR-2 LC Match 62 Case 2850 avg from 24" 1:10 barrel. |
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[#4]
165 gr sierra GK
56.5 g IMR 4350 CCI 200 LOA 3.3 I get clover leaves at 100 with this. |
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[#5]
Anyone done much with 195 Hornady match? Just picked up a couple boxes.
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[#6]
What powder are you going to use?
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[#7]
Weatherby Vanguard 30-06
Sierra 180 gr GK or Hornady 178 gr A-Max 59.1 gr of H4831SC Loaded about 0.030" from the lands. I get sub MOA. Sometimes clover leafs. Being a thin factory sporter barrel it heats up quick. |
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[#8]
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
What powder are you going to use? View Quote Also, something that came to mind is a question about zeroing and accuracy comparison at appropriate distance. I'm told that for loads intended for 500+ that often measuring accuracy at 100 or 200 isn't useful because the bullet has to settle down in its flight first, that it's more accurate at 250-300 and beyond than closer. True or not? From what I read from the ballistics calculation I've done is that for me to shoot at 600, a 300 yd zero is useful, less than that not so much. |
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[#9]
Not much evidence of those settling or going to sleep theories, at least nothing you can use.
Using a longer distance for load development is definitely a must if you actually think you will shoot competition or game at 500 or more yards. A scope reticule can be used to make setting the zero at 300 a very fast way to go. One must learn to hold down in close shots and hold over at 400 and 500 etc. For game that doesn't stand around and pose broadside for long in big openings, this is a valuable set up. |
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[Last Edit: RWEIII]
[#10]
Originally Posted By memsu:
Weatherby Vanguard 30-06 Sierra 180 gr GK or Hornady 178 gr A-Max 59.1 gr of H4831SC Loaded about 0.030" from the lands. I get sub MOA. Sometimes clover leafs. Being a thin factory sporter barrel it heats up quick. View Quote My Vanguard in 30-06 is the same with heating up. I am even making it worse on myself by going to 125 grain Nosler Accubonds. This was born out of a need for a rifle for my daughter to hunt with, couldn't fund a full rig at the time - the way I wanted to set her up so it started with youth loads. Turns out it became a joy to shoot. Now we are "sharing" the gun and working on precision loads. To get those sub MOA and occasional clover leaf groups I used to shoot : 165 gr SGK Winchester or Federal brass 43.7 gr H335 CCI Mag LR primer Now we are looking at: 125 gr NAB Nosler Brass 50.2 grains RL15 (Currently, still wringing that out) CCI LR primers |
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[#11]
My old Sako Finnbear likes 165 grain Ballistic Tips with 57 grains of IMR 4350. Very accurate and deadly on deer.
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[Last Edit: MS556]
[#12]
Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
My old Sako Finnbear likes 165 grain Ballistic Tips with 57 grains of IMR 4350. Very accurate and deadly on deer. View Quote I use exactly that same combo of bullet and powder and charge weight. Those Nosler BTs are spooky accurate for a hunting bullet. Lately, however, I am getting equal accuracy and better velocity with 63.0 grains (compressed) RL-22 with the same bullet. 24" barrel. Velocity is fully 150 fps higher. Right at 2,975-3,000 fps with a 165! Might want to give it a try. Of course, all disclaimers apply. Reduce 10% and work up. It is a max load per Nosler, but shows no pressure signs in my rifle. |
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[#13]
180 grain Hornady SST
56 grains IMR 4350 Hornady match brass Not sure of the velocity but my guess would be somewhere around 2700-2800 fps out of a 22" tube. |
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[Last Edit: Ghostface]
[#14]
After ruining two bolts I have gone back to RL22. I had no signs of pressure when using H4350, no flat primers, no flow on the primer from the firing pin, no marks on the case head and no sticky bolt lift. The cases just had two holes near the primer and the bolts were etched from the gas. This powder is too spikey for me and after ruining two bolts I am done. It didnt happened with every case but every now and then and the environmental temperature didnt matter. It happened when cool and warm with the same components and same hand weighed charge. I can deal with the more temperature sensitivity of RL22...
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[#15]
Originally Posted By Ghostface: After ruining two bolts I have gone back to RL22. I had no signs of pressure when using H4350, no flat primers, no flow on the primer from the firing pin, no marks on the case head and no sticky bolt lift. The cases just had two holes near the primer and the bolts were etched from the gas. This powder is too spikey for me and after ruining two bolts I am done. It didnt happened with every case but every now and then and the environmental temperature didnt matter. It happened when cool and warm with the same components and same hand weighed charge. I can deal with the more temperature sensitivity of RL22... View Quote Leaked around the edge of the primer? They've gotten better, but for a while, Winchester primers were bad about firing pin punctures and leaking around the edge. |
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FBHO
Teener Krew 4 Lyfe Distinguished Rifleman #2223 MOA All Day: #1 Service Rifle Division "The .30-06 is never a mistake." - Townsend Whelen |
[#16]
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Leaked around the edge of the primer? They've gotten better, but for a while, Winchester primers were bad about firing pin punctures and leaking around the edge. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
After ruining two bolts I have gone back to RL22. I had no signs of pressure when using H4350, no flat primers, no flow on the primer from the firing pin, no marks on the case head and no sticky bolt lift. The cases just had two holes near the primer and the bolts were etched from the gas. This powder is too spikey for me and after ruining two bolts I am done. It didnt happened with every case but every now and then and the environmental temperature didnt matter. It happened when cool and warm with the same components and same hand weighed charge. I can deal with the more temperature sensitivity of RL22... Leaked around the edge of the primer? They've gotten better, but for a while, Winchester primers were bad about firing pin punctures and leaking around the edge. Yup, sure did! But it never did this with the RL22 loads and I suspect because the RL22 is lower pressure. I have about 4k Winny primers left and I have since started buying CCI's but Winny seems to be so easy to get in my parts, everyone has them...ALL of the tie. |
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[#17]
I've been loading this as a duplicate for the old M72 match load for my garand, but it shoots like a house aflame in all my 06's.
R-P case, prepped (FL sized, trimed to minimum, weighed to +/- .5 Grain. flash holes reamed adn primer pockets trued) CCI BR2 46.0 IMR 4064 175 Sierra MK OAL 3.340" I've also loaded 180 Nosler BT's with this for hunting. Excellent long range whitetail bullet. |
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[#18]
Anyone loading the 208s? I have a box of them to try.
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Does anyone know where I can get Hoppe's #9 cologne?
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[Last Edit: bobo06]
[#19]
Remington 700 LR.
57.4 grains H4350 Lapua brass 168 Amax Win LR primers 3.34 col. Shoots very good bobo06 |
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[#20]
Originally Posted By USMARINE1108:
Anyone loading the 208s? I have a box of them to try. View Quote My friend RocketmanOU and I use them. Awesome bullets, insane BC, downside is they're so long they tend to be compressed loads. IIRC, we're loading H4831SC (can't remember the charge weight) and getting about 2600fps. Awesome long-range bullet. Reloder 19 and 22 are both supposed to be good powders in the .30-06 for that bullet. We've got some, we just haven't done any load testing yet. |
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"Three, two, one, keyturn."
"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine If you're gonna be stoopid, ya gotta be tough. |
[#21]
Originally Posted By limaxray:
My friend RocketmanOU and I use them. Awesome bullets, insane BC, downside is they're so long they tend to be compressed loads. IIRC, we're loading H4831SC (can't remember the charge weight) and getting about 2600fps. Awesome long-range bullet. Reloder 19 and 22 are both supposed to be good powders in the .30-06 for that bullet. We've got some, we just haven't done any load testing yet. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By limaxray:
Originally Posted By USMARINE1108:
Anyone loading the 208s? I have a box of them to try. My friend RocketmanOU and I use them. Awesome bullets, insane BC, downside is they're so long they tend to be compressed loads. IIRC, we're loading H4831SC (can't remember the charge weight) and getting about 2600fps. Awesome long-range bullet. Reloder 19 and 22 are both supposed to be good powders in the .30-06 for that bullet. We've got some, we just haven't done any load testing yet. What twist? |
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Does anyone know where I can get Hoppe's #9 cologne?
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[Last Edit: limaxray]
[#22]
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"Three, two, one, keyturn."
"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine If you're gonna be stoopid, ya gotta be tough. |
[Last Edit: USMARINE1108]
[#23]
Originally Posted By limaxray:
1:10, Criterion 26" bull barrels. Gratuitous rifle pron: http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN58131.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCN58112.JPG View Quote Looks good! Obermeyer 26" MTU, 1/11.25. It shoots 220gr Interlocks very well, but the 208s are a completely different animal. I have plenty of R22. It shoots 178s good too, but I haven't done much development. Savage 110 with all the bells and whistles. My hunting rifle. image hoster gif image hosting |
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Does anyone know where I can get Hoppe's #9 cologne?
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#24]
I would suggest that the bolt etching is due to the Winchester primers, and not the powder. Even though you are having better luck with a different powder, that limitation quite possibly would not be there with a different brand primer. Here is some further discussion on it:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=169345 (photo not mine) There has never been a recall or official published list, though Winchester reportedly will replace yours if you are experiencing issues - on a one-on-one basis. I suggest you contact them. From various internet posters (i.e. not confirmed), the following lots may be in question (list not exclusive): CLL555G CCL435G EHL067G DHL774G DFL717G DHL788G DAL594G CAL401G GEL250G GDL255G EAL234G DNL836G DNL837G DHL766G GFL284G DGL741G FEL255G I have several thousand of Winchester large rifle primers, and have to say they are visually the worst quality primers I have ever had. When you look at a box of primed cases, and see the spectrum of colors and tarnish all over the map even in the same box, it is not inspiring. The flatten out very easily, but I've yet to have one of mine leak. What I do know, is I will never buy a Winchester primers again. Speculation is they got a bad lot of brass sheet-stock, but no confirmation. |
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[#25]
I quit using Winchester rifle primers years ago when they went from the white packageing and plated cups to the blue packaging and no plating.
I found the new unplated primers were soft as hell and had trouble with flattened primers and piercing that I never had with the older ones. I still use the pistol primers for my lower pressure loads like .38 special and .45 ACP. |
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#26]
Originally Posted By jaholder1971:
I quit using Winchester rifle primers years ago when they went from the white packageing and plated cups to the blue packaging and no plating. I found the new unplated primers were soft as hell and had trouble with flattened primers and piercing that I never had with the older ones. I still use the pistol primers for my lower pressure loads like .38 special and .45 ACP. View Quote Thanks for that - I thought it was just me, but trying to read pressure signs on unplated Win primers is a panic inducing exercise. |
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[Last Edit: Ghostface]
[#27]
Worked up some loads using IMR 4350 using the OCW method and all well under moa. My starting load was 55.1 and I knew it would shoot well because many mentioned it was a node. I worked up in .3 increments until I reached 56.0 which shot well but was about .80 moa whereas the rest were all under .5 and 55.1 being .27 for five shots. I'm going to play with seating depth with the 55.1 and see if I can improve on the load some but I'm happy with where it is really. The recipe :
55.1 grns IMR-4350 Winchester case CCI 200 primer Hornady 178 HPBT 3.351 coal I forget what it is from the ogive but I have it wrote down. My chrony kept throwing error codes so I turned it off, maybe it was too cold at 31 degrees and overcast.... |
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[Last Edit: jaholder1971]
[#29]
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
Thanks for that - I thought it was just me, but trying to read pressure signs on unplated Win primers is a panic inducing exercise. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By jaholder1971:
I quit using Winchester rifle primers years ago when they went from the white packageing and plated cups to the blue packaging and no plating. I found the new unplated primers were soft as hell and had trouble with flattened primers and piercing that I never had with the older ones. I still use the pistol primers for my lower pressure loads like .38 special and .45 ACP. Thanks for that - I thought it was just me, but trying to read pressure signs on unplated Win primers is a panic inducing exercise. http://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html Quoted from the link: "The latest generation of Winchester primers, with brass-colored cups, should be avoided for AR15 use. The old silver Winchester primers worked fine, but the current WSRs are soft and can be pierced more easily than CCI or Rem primers." I had trouble with them from the first package of WSR's I bought back 12-13 years ago and quit using them. I do use the pistol primers for my .38's and .45's and still buy up any older plated primers I can find. |
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[#30]
Hello Moderator,
Could you make this thread a sticky, so it joins all the other precision load data threads? Thank you. |
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[Last Edit: Wolverine]
[#31]
My data:
Remington 700 Long Range LC 65 Match case CCI BR-2 primer Sierra 175grain TMK bullet 53.3grains IMR4350 .010 off lands 0.807 inch @ 100 yards I haven't shot this across a chrono yet. Sierra manual show's 2700 fps for this load. |
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[#32]
Rifle: ~1964 Rem 700 BDL action, 26" Krieger MTU barrel
Load Data: Sierra 175gr TMK, 55.7gr IMR4451, Lapua brass, Win LR primers (where ARE those Federals?) Performance: 5-shot groups 0.8" @ 100yds. Recorded avg MV=2895 fps @87 degrees 67% humidity near sea level Bangs steel out to 1200yds, but went oh-for-6 at 1 mile :( Recorded avg MV=2915fps at 82 degrees, 50% humidity at ~2500'. |
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[#33]
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[#34]
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Do you have an update? I too am thinking of playing games around them. I am thinking about IMR 4451 and the 208 HPBT or ELD-M. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Originally Posted By USMARINE1108:
Anyone loading the 208s? I have a box of them to try. Do you have an update? I too am thinking of playing games around them. I am thinking about IMR 4451 and the 208 HPBT or ELD-M. I don't. I haven't loaded anything new for that rifle this year. |
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Does anyone know where I can get Hoppe's #9 cologne?
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[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#36]
Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
Also, something that came to mind is a question about zeroing and accuracy comparison at appropriate distance. I'm told that for loads intended for 500+ that often measuring accuracy at 100 or 200 isn't useful because the bullet has to settle down in its flight first, that it's more accurate at 250-300 and beyond than closer. True or not? From what I read from the ballistics calculation I've done is that for me to shoot at 600, a 300 yd zero is useful, less than that not so much. View Quote Someone explain to me what happens to the bullet between 100 yards and 300 yards. It has already "settled down" so what makes a 1/2moa load at 100yards be anything other than that at 300 yards ( atmospherics aside)? What is happening that you need to test a load at 300yards rather than 100yards? All of my load testing is done at 100, I shoot these loads to ranges out to 1100, there are never any surprises. A Chronograph will tell you if you are going to have bad vertical. |
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MOA ALL DAY- 169 Arfcom rifles confirmed
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[Last Edit: spartanglory11]
[#37]
Originally Posted By USMARINE1108:
Anyone loading the 208s? I have a box of them to try. View Quote 59.0 gr R22 CCI LRP Federal cases only neck sized after first firing 3.34" COAL This load is more accurate for me than my 178 gr HPBT loads i've worked up w 4064 I have casually taken it out to 600 so far and was over 60% hits on a 2/3 ISPC steel plate. Misses were my own fault/inexperience with wind calls. There are pics of this rifle in one of the precision rifle pic threads on here somewhere in an AICS1.0 chassis. I say try it, you will not regret it |
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[#38]
Originally Posted By spartanglory11:
I bought 1k of the 208 AMAX before they dried up. This is a load that is inside 3/4" at 100: 59.0 gr R22 CCI LRP Federal cases only neck sized after first firing 3.34" COAL This load is more accurate for me than my 178 gr HPBT loads i've worked up w 4064 I have casually taken it out to 600 so far and was over 60% hits on a 2/3 ISPC steel plate. Misses were my own fault/inexperience with wind calls. There are pics of this rifle in one of the precision rifle pic threads on here somewhere in an AICS1.0 chassis. I say try it, you will not regret it View Quote |
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[#39]
good luck
I was getting crunching of the powder when seating the bullet at 59.5, but 59.0 was the tightest groups when working up starting at 57.0 keep the thread updated with your finding and post pics! |
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[Last Edit: Ghostface]
[#40]
Originally Posted By spartanglory11:
good luck I was getting crunching of the powder when seating the bullet at 59.5, but 59.0 was the tightest groups when working up starting at 57.0 keep the thread updated with your finding and post pics! View Quote |
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[#41]
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Well...I started at 56 and went up to 59 using .5 increments, 56.5 shot a we'll rounded group around .5 moa . I started seeing ejector marks right at 57-58 grains but it went away at 58.5. Things started to tighten up again at 59.0 but the groups shifted to the right with a little vertical stringing. I never did get sticky bolt lift but the ejector marks are concerning. I don't know why they went away as the charges went up from 57.5. I also don't know why I didn't see flattened primers or flow? Temp was 87 and high humidity. I'm going to load up more at 56.5 and take it out to 1k to see what they do... View Quote The dies I am using are marketed by RCBS as "match quality" and includes the micrometer seater die, but I'd hesitate to put them in the same breath as a die set the guys going for max accuracy and compete in serious matches use......... Also, I'd hesitate to think that brass would have that much of an effect of your reduced case capacity(by way of earlier casing marks) unless you're using older military brass. I would surmise that the Federal brass I'm using is relatively similar to Winchester or Remington, etc. in regards to usable case capacity. My temps were similar to yours. It was probably 85* that afternoon, but I do have less than 20% humidity regularly in my location. I am currently on military orders out of my home state, so I will have to bow out of giving more advice without referring to my notes. Id rather not give you potentially dangerous, wrong info based on misremembering things. If this thread is still going in a few months when I get back home for good off orders, I will shoot some more and report my findings. Good luck in the meantime. |
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[#42]
well, I backed off to the 56.3 charge and then I decided to moly the bullets in order to back the pressure down more. I bumped the charge up a grain, so I'm at 57.3 with no pressure. The load is outstanding! I shot a 5 shot group that was just a hair under 5 inches at 1000 yards on Monday. Strelok says my velocity is 2677 fps, I was hoping to get as close to 2700 as possible but I knew that would be hard with a 22 inch barrel. All in all I'm happy with the load. Once I burn through these last 4 lbs of RL22, I'm going to pick up a can of 23 because it's supposed to be similar to 22 but temp stable.
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[Last Edit: Ghostface]
[#43]
Picked up a keg of 4451, is anyone using this powder?
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[#44]
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Picked up a keg of 4451, is anyone using this powder? View Quote I load '06 mainly in hunting rifles. For hunting at moderate range, I prefer the lighter 150 grain bullets. They have done well with near max loads of either H4350 or RL-19 with either Nosler BT or Barnes TSX bullets. The BT's are near match accuracy. The TSX is surprisingly accurate for an all copper hunting bullet, hovering just over 1 MOA with either powder. |
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[#45]
I’ve loaded some up and they’re on the bench waiting to go, I had scheduled a day off tomorrow but work is killing that idea. I may go out Friday if I can squeeze it in. I’m loading heavy match bullets so you might not be too interested in my report.
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[#46]
First step, buy Lapua brass, they make it for 30-06.
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"most women can be driven to orgasm by hearing a bawdy tale that flies in the face of propriety" Ken M.
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