monolthic domes? paging 1 big bunker (Page 6 of 12)
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On you example there it would be 56k for 16 sqft finished. (well maybe add a bit for the floor)
Wether it is worth it for multiple stories varies on how much land you have. Less slab cost vs added cost of a floor/ stairs etc Now for equipment it looks like a 185 CFM compressor 5-10k or maybe rent, mixer 5k, fan 1k and pump 12k new ~24-30k in equipment if bought new. Sub the foam probably. |
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yep that looks to be it, labor and machinery costs.
its all in the scale, though the climate matters alot too. Here in VA it would be tough where I am now. Land is also an issue, good luck affording commercial or high density residential. One thing I am looking at is empty city lots. Might not be in a great neighborhood, but if I can get a lot for a couple grand that already has water and sewer it may be reasonable to do low income housing on single distributed lots Last town I lived in however was close enough to the city a 2 bedroom with nothing went for 650 a month, and that was the only housing complex in town marginally safe. That would have been a great market. Now if I moved back to maine it would be a whole nother ballgame. Heating costs there are such that the increased efficient would be of real value. Many people in cheap trailers or homes easily spend several grand a year heating. IBBs plans look like they really work because of the scale. He can afford to build it with his own crews as his profit factor is being invested long term, rather then being taken by contractors and added into the owners mortgage. Other issue would be when building officials start requiring GCs, lisenced plummers etc which will jack up costs. If you sink ~20k into one unit and get a equity loan on it you can net maybe 1-2k a year on it, so it takes units in bulk to live off of unless you just have a couple on the side. But to have them on the side at a good price you need to devote your full time to building them for a period. All that asside they are very good and affordable for a personal home if you have the cash on hand, as loans would be difficult. |
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I look at it as the cost to build 1 dome for 1 rental is X and the cost to build a dome that fits 2 rentals is not nearly as much as X*2. Its a very small example of economies of scale. The foundation is 32' diameter regardless of the height and the dome isnt much more to accommodate the 2nd story so....
But I agree. There seems to be a narrow band where these things just work. Frankly, I think that band would exist for stick or dome structures. Removing the labor component just really changes the dynamics of the equations. 1BB seems to have really toughed it out in the beginning and worked within the band and it has now paid off in spades. For a guy looking for something on the side I have my reservations about it. Its a hell of an equipment cost and a hell of a lot of work with a long timeline working weekends and evenings. Its interesting, and frankly quite enjoyable, to really sit down and start crunching numbers and analyzing it from the inside however. |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
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yes they are labor, insurance and maintenance saving. If you can get them up at a reasonable cost, and make them break even for the ten or 15 year note, they will be practically cost free after that forever. No roof, no painting, no siding, no holes in the walls etc.
It really does decrease in cost by number built. Say you have to buy everything, other then the foam, you would be looking at maybe 50k max- Built 10 IO-20s and you are looking at 5k equipment cost a unit and the equipment is depreciable vs income. |
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now back to the original subject for a bit.
What would a survival dome entail? The basic structure as built if properly coated should last many centuries. It should be planned to be functional without technology. IE natural light, heat, much storage, gravity septic system etc. My thinking would be it would need to be defensible and work without electricity. Hence it would need a wood stove for heat, and some kind passive ventilation system for fresh air. I think a two story dome would be best, single inset entrance with murder holes on the sides on the first floor. Windows/ skylights towards the slop of the dome on the second floor with an open floor plan to allow in light after the power goes, and give you lookout ability, but at the same time not expose you to to open a silhouette for sniper fire, preferably with some sort of simple mechanical metal shutters another possibility would be a burried dome with some sort of air vent/observation tower, but that would give you lighting problems after power is gone. |
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Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
now back to the original subject for a bit. What would a survival dome entail? The basic structure as built if properly coated should last many centuries. It should be planned to be functional without technology. IE natural light, heat, much storage, gravity septic system etc. My thinking would be it would need to be defensible and work without electricity. Hence it would need a wood stove for heat, and some kind passive ventilation system for fresh air. I think a two story dome would be best, single inset entrance with murder holes on the sides on the first floor. Windows/ skylights towards the slop of the dome on the second floor with an open floor plan to allow in light after the power goes, and give you lookout ability, but at the same time not expose you to to open a silhouette for sniper fire, preferably with some sort of simple mechanical metal shutters another possibility would be a burried dome with some sort of air vent/observation tower, but that would give you lighting problems after power is gone. I think at some point the realization needs to be made that you cant fully design a dome to be a "survival dome" without making sacrifices to the every day comfort of the unit. For example, operating without electricity (Or gas). Your kitchen would need to be designed with a wood fired stove. Thats going to most likely make the internal temperature of the dome uncomfortable in the winter and unbearable in the summer. Even more problematic is who wants to mess about with a wood fired stove when you have the option of electric or gas? That also goes in line with septic. Toilets need water. Water, generally, takes electricity. I dont believe there is a simple solution to create a gravity operated septic without making major sacrifices to the modern day living situations. I think the trick then is to find the balance or dual engineer the location. Build your modern day dome with all of the luxuries afforded to us and then build the old world "luxuries" elsewhere on the lot. things like an outhouse and outdoor oven. |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
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Lets lets assume someone wanted to build a 2 story unit with the floors being separate. Such that theres no interior stairs between the floors. Assuming this what is the easier and most cost effective way to build the floor of the 2nd level?
Would it be best to build the interior walls of the first floor as load bearing supports for the 2nd story floor or would it be a better and most cost effective solution to hang steel girders from the shell thus keeping the interior walls of the 1st floor as non load bearing? If one hangs girders from the shell how exactly is the bonding done? I assume one uses a custom hanger, meaning that theres no off the shelf solution available, and the process is similar to the rebar hanging? One would apply 3 inches or so of shotcrete then embed the hangers and follow that up with another 3 inches or so of shotcrete. Once the dome was dry then the floor would be built upon the girders? Or could you build a stem wall and hang the girders off the stem wall, then finish out the dome after that? |
What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
this one they put a ring beam around it and installed post and beams. I believe with proper engineering you could easily tie metal trusses directly into the rebar frame.
site with about 200 picture of building process |
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Thanks Orion. You know, after looking at all 176 pictures it kind of puts it in perspective. Not sure this is something I could realistically tackle myself.
Good thing I'm not a realistic kind of guy. If you'll excuse me I gotta go use some of my Hope and Change to pick up compressed rainbow pellets and feed the unicorn. 
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What the fuck were you going to do? Laugh the last three guys to death, funnyman?!
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble. - Kharn
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Cool - and thanks. Very informative. As someone who wears a hardhat all day, I'm particularly interested in the Saran Wrap-hardhat visor-thing. 
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I'm gonna walk with my grand daddy
And he'll match me step for step
And I'll tell him how I missed him
Every minute since he left
Then I'll hug his neck
- Brad Paisley
And he'll match me step for step
And I'll tell him how I missed him
Every minute since he left
Then I'll hug his neck
- Brad Paisley
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Originally Posted By Backstop:
Cool - and thanks. Very informative. As someone who wears a hardhat all day, I'm particularly interested in the Saran Wrap-hardhat visor-thing. one of the monolithic videos explains it. Shotcreteing creates lots of backsplash that covers googles fast, so they use a roll of saran wrap and pull it down when they cant see anymore |
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Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
one of the monolithic videos explains it. Shotcreteing creates lots of backsplash that covers googles fast, so they use a roll of saran wrap and pull it down when they cant see anymore Sorry - used that laughing dude - hoping it would indicate my humor, and the fact I understood what the Saran Wrap was for. Failed on the second hope. 
Thanks again. |
I'm gonna walk with my grand daddy
And he'll match me step for step
And I'll tell him how I missed him
Every minute since he left
Then I'll hug his neck
- Brad Paisley
And he'll match me step for step
And I'll tell him how I missed him
Every minute since he left
Then I'll hug his neck
- Brad Paisley
| my problem with that design is you would be introducing volatiles into the inside of your home ( cars, paint shop etc), I would rather make a second dome to separately house things like that Domes are excellent protection against outside events, but they contain things inside well too, such as fumes and fire, recall the wood stove fire, all the heat from say a burning car would toast the inside I would expect |
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Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
my problem with that design is you would be introducing volatiles into the inside of your home ( cars, paint shop etc), I would rather make a second dome to separately house things like that Domes are excellent protection against outside events, but they contain things inside well too, such as fumes and fire, recall the wood stove fire, all the heat from say a burning car would toast the inside I would expect The design I posted is a first generation. Currently the stair way is enclosed with a door at the bottom. I am also thinking of a rolling steel security shudder closing off the garage/1st floor from the second floor. Edit : After talking it over with the wife, the New Improved design is only the top two stories. This will be a 48' dome with a 34' second floor. The second is larger by 4 foot (diameter) the the old plan. This should be cheaper than the first design by enough to build the Shop/ garage in a steel Quonset hut type building. |
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This thread is inspirational.
I'm currently designing my own underground dome shelter; if you compare it to the prefabricated metal fallout shelters, building a dome seems like a far more cost effective solution. 
Anyway, here's my drawing. Not really sure about the scale, obviously not that big but big enough for a loft area for additional storage; the tunnels could also be used for storage; I like the idea of having more than one way in or out. The main entrance tunnel leads to the basement of the main residence, the escape tunnel comes out in a storage shed or detached garage or something where it can be hidden from view. Main entrance would also store NBC gear and be equipped for hosing off fallout/whatever. For the loft I figure ladder access for maximum economy of space with a block & tackle set up drilled into the dome to move stuff easily between levels... Kitchen area would be big enough for basic appliances and a small countertop, eating area is built into a small tunnel, under the benches is storage, reckon equip the space like the wardroom in a submarine... if someone gets injured, the space doubles as an infirmary. This space is also the shelter's command center/communications room. There's a ham radio station, hooked up to retractable antennas. There's also a computer hooked up to any automated systems/perimeter security. I dunno if it'd be best to use a chemical toilet or hook the latrine into the main septic/sewage system. I Figure there could be an advantage to purifying all grey water and using solid waste as compost. Living area is another tunnel expanding outward, since according to 1BB tunnels are cheap this seems like the best way to get extra square footage. With bunk beds on the walls just make the tunnel longer to support your # of people... Armory has to be big enough to hold all weapons/ammo but also a reloading bench and some basic smithing tools... this is also the shelter's workshop. The actual storage area is another tunnel with a heavy-duty steel door for security. The machine room holds the battery bank & inverter, diesel generator and fuel tank, water tank, and air filter... Any issues with this design? |
We contemplate eternity under the vast indifference of heaven
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Originally Posted By Desdinova721: This thread is inspirational. I'm currently designing my own underground dome shelter; if you compare it to the prefabricated metal fallout shelters, building a dome seems like a far more cost effective solution. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/_desdinova/shelter.jpg Anyway, here's my drawing. Not really sure about the scale, obviously not that big but big enough for a loft area for additional storage; the tunnels could also be used for storage; I like the idea of having more than one way in or out. The main entrance tunnel leads to the basement of the main residence, the escape tunnel comes out in a storage shed or detached garage or something where it can be hidden from view. Main entrance would also store NBC gear and be equipped for hosing off fallout/whatever. For the loft I figure ladder access for maximum economy of space with a block & tackle set up drilled into the dome to move stuff easily between levels... Kitchen area would be big enough for basic appliances and a small countertop, eating area is built into a small tunnel, under the benches is storage, reckon equip the space like the wardroom in a submarine... if someone gets injured, the space doubles as an infirmary. This space is also the shelter's command center/communications room. There's a ham radio station, hooked up to retractable antennas. There's also a computer hooked up to any automated systems/perimeter security. I dunno if it'd be best to use a chemical toilet or hook the latrine into the main septic/sewage system. I Figure there could be an advantage to purifying all grey water and using solid waste as compost. Living area is another tunnel expanding outward, since according to 1BB tunnels are cheap this seems like the best way to get extra square footage. With bunk beds on the walls just make the tunnel longer to support your # of people... Armory has to be big enough to hold all weapons/ammo but also a reloading bench and some basic smithing tools... this is also the shelter's workshop. The actual storage area is another tunnel with a heavy-duty steel door for security. The machine room holds the battery bank & inverter, diesel generator and fuel tank, water tank, and air filter... Any issues with this design? It seems like you're punching alot of holes in your dome for the squared off parts, which wont be as strong. Why not two domes, or a string small ones?? |
7.62x39: Turning cover into concealment since 1943
San Antonio ARFCOM Net every Sunday@ 9:00 PM 147.38+ 162.2 PL
San Antonio ARFCOM Net every Sunday@ 9:00 PM 147.38+ 162.2 PL
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Originally Posted By TornMonkey:
Originally Posted By M4wilson:
I am sooo tagging this Ditto 
yeah that |
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." --- Theodore Roosevelt, 4 July 1903
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Originally Posted By TexasSheepdog: Even though they look "squared off" in the overhead view, my impression/understanding was that they were tunnels (rounded off)... but I've slept since then, and need to do so again. Originally Posted By Desdinova721: It seems like you're punching alot of holes in your dome for the squared off parts, which wont be as strong. Why not two domes, or a string small ones??This thread is inspirational. I'm currently designing my own underground dome shelter; if you compare it to the prefabricated metal fallout shelters, building a dome seems like a far more cost effective solution. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/_desdinova/shelter.jpg Anyway, here's my drawing. Not really sure about the scale, obviously not that big but big enough for a loft area for additional storage; the tunnels could also be used for storage; I like the idea of having more than one way in or out. The main entrance tunnel leads to the basement of the main residence, the escape tunnel comes out in a storage shed or detached garage or something where it can be hidden from view. Main entrance would also store NBC gear and be equipped for hosing off fallout/whatever. For the loft I figure ladder access for maximum economy of space with a block & tackle set up drilled into the dome to move stuff easily between levels... Kitchen area would be big enough for basic appliances and a small countertop, eating area is built into a small tunnel, under the benches is storage, reckon equip the space like the wardroom in a submarine... if someone gets injured, the space doubles as an infirmary. This space is also the shelter's command center/communications room. There's a ham radio station, hooked up to retractable antennas. There's also a computer hooked up to any automated systems/perimeter security. I dunno if it'd be best to use a chemical toilet or hook the latrine into the main septic/sewage system. I Figure there could be an advantage to purifying all grey water and using solid waste as compost. Living area is another tunnel expanding outward, since according to 1BB tunnels are cheap this seems like the best way to get extra square footage. With bunk beds on the walls just make the tunnel longer to support your # of people... Armory has to be big enough to hold all weapons/ammo but also a reloading bench and some basic smithing tools... this is also the shelter's workshop. The actual storage area is another tunnel with a heavy-duty steel door for security. The machine room holds the battery bank & inverter, diesel generator and fuel tank, water tank, and air filter... Any issues with this design?  |
"When you shoot people, you take what you can get." –– Louis Awerbuck
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
"Personal attacks and threats to shoot people in the back...." –– arfcom System Message, locking a thread about 401(k) retirement plans
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Originally Posted By wise_jake: Originally Posted By TexasSheepdog: Even though they look "squared off" in the overhead view, my impression/understanding was that they were tunnels (rounded off)... but I've slept since then, and need to do so again. Originally Posted By Desdinova721: It seems like you're punching alot of holes in your dome for the squared off parts, which wont be as strong. Why not two domes, or a string small ones??This thread is inspirational. I'm currently designing my own underground dome shelter; if you compare it to the prefabricated metal fallout shelters, building a dome seems like a far more cost effective solution. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/_desdinova/shelter.jpg Anyway, here's my drawing. Not really sure about the scale, obviously not that big but big enough for a loft area for additional storage; the tunnels could also be used for storage; I like the idea of having more than one way in or out. The main entrance tunnel leads to the basement of the main residence, the escape tunnel comes out in a storage shed or detached garage or something where it can be hidden from view. Main entrance would also store NBC gear and be equipped for hosing off fallout/whatever. For the loft I figure ladder access for maximum economy of space with a block & tackle set up drilled into the dome to move stuff easily between levels... Kitchen area would be big enough for basic appliances and a small countertop, eating area is built into a small tunnel, under the benches is storage, reckon equip the space like the wardroom in a submarine... if someone gets injured, the space doubles as an infirmary. This space is also the shelter's command center/communications room. There's a ham radio station, hooked up to retractable antennas. There's also a computer hooked up to any automated systems/perimeter security. I dunno if it'd be best to use a chemical toilet or hook the latrine into the main septic/sewage system. I Figure there could be an advantage to purifying all grey water and using solid waste as compost. Living area is another tunnel expanding outward, since according to 1BB tunnels are cheap this seems like the best way to get extra square footage. With bunk beds on the walls just make the tunnel longer to support your # of people... Armory has to be big enough to hold all weapons/ammo but also a reloading bench and some basic smithing tools... this is also the shelter's workshop. The actual storage area is another tunnel with a heavy-duty steel door for security. The machine room holds the battery bank & inverter, diesel generator and fuel tank, water tank, and air filter... Any issues with this design? Ahh that makes more sense, half dome on the endcap and a tube in the middle. |
7.62x39: Turning cover into concealment since 1943
San Antonio ARFCOM Net every Sunday@ 9:00 PM 147.38+ 162.2 PL
San Antonio ARFCOM Net every Sunday@ 9:00 PM 147.38+ 162.2 PL
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new set of videos being put up by a group building a dome
vids very interesting so far. |
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Looks like 1BB hasn't logged in since a couple days after his last post in this thread. Lots of good info here. I was planning on building a metal shop and a metal house(long way off from this though)...but a bunker would be more my style.
Hope 1BB is doing well with his projects. Maybe he'll stop back by sometime and give us some more info. |
Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..
IM me to find out about SSA's poor customer service
IM me to find out about SSA's poor customer service
| I worked a summer at this school (my old school district) during construction. I have been told that the utility bills at the school are extremely low. |
Aaaaah… Pig iron, your musk is that of glorious industry …
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this thread needs to come back from the dead
I am still researching. It seems to all come down to local cost of land. Commercial zoning with utilities available is expensive. Rural land is cheap, but the zoning is an issue, and septic/ well hugely increase construction costs. I have had some interesting thoughts regarding survival compounds using domes and a larger culvert airform that I am going to play with in sketchup and post in a day or two. It seems egress requirments in building codes would require multiple first floor windows which would be a real week point unless a steel shutter system were devised... or moat used
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Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
Anyone own one? thoughts on survivability as a bug in location? Seems to stand up to mother nature extremely well from the web sites. You might want to look at above-grade insulated concrete forms. You can put your choice of veneer on them (brick/stone/vinyl(. They look conventional and have conventional floor plans, but have insulated concrete walls. Construction is a lot less specialized as well. The domes stand out a bit. |
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Originally Posted By mjcOH1:
Originally Posted By snakeshooter1:
Anyone own one? thoughts on survivability as a bug in location? Seems to stand up to mother nature extremely well from the web sites. You might want to look at above-grade insulated concrete forms. You can put your choice of veneer on them (brick/stone/vinyl(. They look conventional and have conventional floor plans, but have insulated concrete walls. Construction is a lot less specialized as well. The domes stand out a bit. true, Icf construction is easier to do alone, and will look conventional when finished, but it needs that outside layer, and some form of roof system that is usually not concrete. It also needs interior finishing, and the inner layer of foam rather defeats the monolithic slab heat balancing. Both are interesting and extremely under utilized..... why pay a mortgage on a house for 30 years that will be falling down by the point its paid off? |
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ahaa Found a complete materials and cost sheet for the IO-20 domes buried on domeliving.com
2006 costs ~23k for the 312 sq foot unit including parking, walkways appliances and furniture... The details are very interesting. Other then the electric on demand waterheater and electric range this would make and excellent highly survivable BOL shelter for about 20k.... Add solar for lighting and maybe refrigerator, and a solar hotwater system and your golden. carrying these costs out to large domes, doubling your size less then doubles your cost, as the airform price declines per sq foot. Once you have paid for all that is entailed in a bathroom/ kitchen, they add up to a significant percent of the shell, so a much bigger shell would not cost all that much more in all. Following 1BBs examples and numbers from monolithics forums and the cost sheet, I am getting a 800 sq foot dome to cost about ~20k for the shell excellent for a retreat. still having trouble making the numbers work on rentals, the killer is the necessary zoning and resulting land cost. |
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Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Class?Update: 1BBunkers project has been delayed due to the oil spill, and new demand studies for the area due the economic fallout  Those of you that have taken the class at monolithic did you feel it was worth it? I am considering trying to make the october class. |
Fuck Obama
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Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
Class?
Update: 1BBunkers project has been delayed due to the oil spill, and new demand studies for the area due the economic fallout
Those of you that have taken the class at monolithic did you feel it was worth it? I am considering trying to make the october class. 5 day construction workshops monolithic puts on workshops a couple times a year. Earlier in the thread a few folks mentioned having been to one |
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Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Thank you, I missed the notice. Originally Posted By kaos: Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Class?Update: 1BBunkers project has been delayed due to the oil spill, and new demand studies for the area due the economic fallout Those of you that have taken the class at monolithic did you feel it was worth it? I am considering trying to make the october class. 5 day construction workshops monolithic puts on workshops a couple times a year. Earlier in the thread a few folks mentioned having been to one  |
Fuck Obama
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been playing with sketchup... making the interior and domes is pretty easy, model the non spherical part of the augements is a royal paint, the single view in sketchup does not work well with manual 3d face creation
Started with an IO-20, will move on to a more survival type plan when i get the hang of it. 
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