Looking to buy a new subcompact tractor. So far just browsing online. Looking at the Kubota BX23 and John Deere 1025R. Wanting a mower deck, front end loader, and backhoe. I’ll add a post hole auger separate as well. Trying to stay with 23HP or greater and keep the price as reasonable as possible. Mahindra appears more expensive for the same specs unless I’m doing something wrong. Thoughts?  Uses will be to fence 3 acres, landscape the new property, mow, and keep the driveway level and free of snow.

LS owner here...  Similar tractor to the other high dollar companies, similar warranty, better price based on my experience.  Distance to local dealer issues may still apply certainly but you owe it to yourself to do the diligence...

Kubota is the machine you want for sub compact tractors. Other brands are ok but the bx25 is top of the line, I have one and for a tiny machine it’s pretty impressive.  They started the sub compact market, it’s the machine other manufacturers try measure up to.

23hp sounds awful small. I would go with the closest and best service dealer. You will need them eventually. I have a 22hp diesel lawn tractor and two big tractors.

Deere, I have been super happy with mine. Just switched out my r3 turfs for carlisle versa turfs

i have had a BX for 10 years no, no problems.
that said, on 3 acres you may want to consider a B series.
it really depends on what you are trying to do with it.
a BX is easier on the turfgrass when cutting; a B can carry more/pull more.

ps
some links to read
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Compact-Tractors/5-2204119/?page=1#i77941769
https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/The_Definitive_Tractor_Thread/19-645509/#i11005669
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Outdoors/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Imminent-sub-compact-tractor-purchase-Opinions-wanted-needed-/19-658685/?page=1
https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Tractor-shopping/19-694525/
https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Kubota-BX-Question/19-690539/
https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/it_s_springtime__don_t_forget_about_your_NIPPLES_/19-680731/?

ar-jedi

I'd think long and hard about the back hoe.

You better have alot of use for it. Not just here and there or one project in mind.

It is the most expensive implement you can get and you would be much happier with renting a mini-ex for a day every year than having the back hoe on a tractor.

Tractor back hoes, especially on the small compacts are not very efficient.

I have 1025R with a 60" MMM, 120R Loader and a 260B backhoe. Bought it all as one package from the dealer. Don't regret it at all. Do I have backhoe work to do every weekend? Nope, but I have it because I will use it in the future.

I was going back and forth between Kubota and Deere for a couple weeks. I liked the ergos and the connections of the Deere better. The MMM is a drive-over and connect, which is nice. The loader and the backhoe take you less than 5 minutes to connect and disconnect, after some practice.

If you're going to need a backhoe and a loader, get them with the tractor. They are much more expensive bought separately. Everything else, there is 3rd party suppliers. Tillers, augers, grapples, brush hogs, etc. Get the proprietary attachments up front.

I have about 6-7 hours on my neighbors 1025r and 14.5 on my BX23 over the past couple months. Both are pretty close and great units.

Don’t buy the tractor, buy the dealer. Tractors are out of stock everywhere so consider yourself lucky if your dealers have stock.

Ultimately the Kubota was in stock and the Deere would have been a 2-3 month lead time. Both dealers were good and both had 0% financing.

Deere is tighter turning, bigger bucket, can lift a good deal more but is more expensive (+4K was my quote) and uses more fuel in my experience. It took almost 12 hrs to get to 1/2 in my BX and I’ve gone through 1/4 tank in an afternoon on my neighbors 1025.

Kubota has the treadle pedal and Deere has the twin touch but you can get used to either.

I’m not sure if the 1025 has position control but the BX has quarter inch valve which is serviceable but not the best.

ETA: backhoe. I thought hard about it and for my use I have plans to build a few retaining walls, remove stumps, dig trenches to run utilities to the back of my property, and planting a few dozen trees so I went for it and I use it about every other time I use the tractor honestly. The Kubota swivels around and the Deere has a dedicated back hoe seat.

@PKT1106

If you don’t mind me asking, what did your setup run you?  I only ask because it’s exactly what I’m looking for. PM is fine if you don’t want to blast it out.

I have 3 deere dealers within 30 miles and each has a few 1 and 2 series sitting out front, I'm assuming they're for sale.

Can’t go wrong with Deere or Kubota.


I have seat time on the BX26 and a 1025r.


BX was my ex’s family’s.  1025r is my sisters.  I have a 2305 which is the 1025r earlier version.

I’m heavily green because the dealer is 15 minutes from me. Where as the Kubota dealer is about 45 minutes.

See which treats you better. Price at the end of the day will probably only be a few hundred dollars apart.

I feel the 1025r has better ergonomics. But again, to me it comes down to dealer support more than anything else.


I get treated well by my Deere dealer.  Because I have a lot of bigger Deere equipment.

I went with a BX23S with mower and bagger and am very happy with it.  I don't use the backhoe much but I can any time I want to, if I waited to rent something I'd have loads of half done projects.
It mows great, the bagger sucks all the leaves up on the fall, it pushes snow pretty well but I'm thinking I'll buy a 3 point blower this fall as we get lots of snow where I'm at and that will be much easier.
I watched lots of Messicks videos on Kubota and was convinced to go orange.

I run a b2320kubota with midmount mower to mow my yard. Bx frame looked a little small for my needs. Not sure of the price difference between the bx and the b but might be worth checking out especially if you are considering the loader and/or backhoe.

Kubota’s build page isn’t even letting me add the backhoe to the B series. I’m sure they’re available but they’re not an option dealer installed apparently.

They are.  My parents have one with a backhoe.  Was ordered with a midmount, backhoe, and FEL

I owned a BX23 for a few years with a 54" mid-mount mower. I got a lot of work done with that thing, but I was using it on several properties and occasionally for work that's probably beyond what most people intend for them. Sold it about a year ago and bought a B2650 with FEL, backhoe, and 60" mid-mount mower, which suits me a little better.

OP, I would definitely recommend at least looking at the B2601. You get more ground clearance, larger wheels which among other things translates to a smoother ride, little bit longer backhoe reach, higher FEL capacity, etc.. It's worth it if you can afford it.

On the backhoe, it's well worth it to me. I got told just take that money and rent a mini-ex too. But I frequently have quick little jobs for which it would not be worth renting equipment, but it sure is nice to have the backhoe around. And even for the larger projects, I can work on them on my own time, as I can, when I want. I don't have to worry about any rental schedules. I use it several places and occasionally do minor jobs for people with it though.

I have 2 month old JD 1025R with 40 hours on it.  

I can't say enough about how this machine performs.

Mine is an FILB (Factory Installed Loader Backhoe), also have used pallet forks, grapple and 60" box blade.

Amazing machine.

I have it narrowed down to the BX23S and the 1025R. Still have to get to dealerships and see who has the sweetest deal.

FWIW:



Note that Messicks is a Kubota/Case/New Holland dealer.  Nearly *all* of their videos are on Kubotas.

tractor time with Tim on Youtube did a multipart video comparison of those two tractors.  I didn't watch it all.  But he is very thorough in his comparisons, and mostly unbiased.

Yeah those were really well done.

a couple more thoughts.
- a FEL is not great for dealing with snow.  you would need a front or rear blade, front is preferred as there is less packing and better control.  if your annual snowfall is heavier, then perhaps a blower (rear, cheaper; front, hella-expensive).
- see https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Snow_Removal___Compact_vs_Subcompact__Kubota__Deere__Massey/19-678123/#i11596108

i will opine again here again you *REALLY* have to have a need for a backhoe on a tractor to justify it.
- to mount anything on the TPH, you have to remove the hoe and the lift arms.  want to use the tiller?  pull the BH off.  put TPH arms on.  put tiller on.  attach PTO shaft.  want to use the BH?  take it all apart.
- to get a decent cut on the grass using the MMM, and not hit every low branch, you have to remove the hoe.  having the BH on and even slightly wet ground will rut the shit out of the grass.  hilly terrain, BH on while mowing is a no go.
- meanwhile a BH on a SCUT like the BX will not pull any sort of stump -- the small tractor + small BH is neither heavy enough nor powerful enough.  have rocky terrain?  BH on a SCUT is digging nowhere.
- for the cost of the BH you can rent a mini-ex about 20 times; i don't need to tell you that a mini-ex digs trenches about 87 times faster and easier and flatter than ANY backhoe will.  a mini-ex spins 360 degrees, compared to a BH 90 degrees, giving many more options when moving material from the hole.  efficiency-wise, with a mini-ex you don't have to get up, spin the seat, pull up the stabilizers, pick up the bucket, creep forward 6-8 feet, put the stabilizers back down, spin the seat etc etc etc OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

summary:  rent a mini-ex when you need it.  you can trench 87 times faster with a mini-ex, and it is sooooooo much easier to dig with a mini-ex due to the weight.  a SCUT or CUT with a backhoe seems "handy" but at the same time all of the issues with having a light tractor and a pair of stabilizers come to the fore: it's hard to dig tough stuff (roots, stumps, rocks, etc) and you have to pull up the stabs after 10 feet, move the tractor forward, and then put the stabs back down.  as you know the mark of someone who knows what they are doing with a backhoe is a flat-bottomed trench, and it's a hell of a lot easier to do just that with a mini-ex than any backhoe.  most local outfits will rent you a mini-ex for the day 10 to 20 times over before it ends up costing you more than the backhoe attachment.

always keep in mind, with a SCUT/CUT+backhoe, every time you want to use a 3pt attachment (carryall, bushhog, sprayer, generator, tender, disc plow, tiller, etc) you have to pull the backhoe off.  by the way, the backhoe itself ain't light and getting it aligned and back on can be a frustrating experience the first 10 times you do it.

maybe it is a local thing which contributes to the decision for rarely used capital expenditures.  in my AO, the rental place will drop off a mini-ex at the end of my driveway at 730AM, leave it for the day, and pick it up at 430pm, for $250.   i don't need to buy it, i don't need to maintain it, i don't need to fix it, i don't need to take up garage space to store it, i don't need to do anything except park it at 430pm.   and even a relatively small mini-ex versus a SCUT BH in terms of digging/trenching/stump pulling?  it's not even fair.

how much does a BH attachment for a SCUT cost, and divide that by $250 or whatever -- there is your breakeven.

ar-jedi

Timely thread as I'm also considering one with a loader and box blade.  It would be mostly be used for cleaning horse stalls, moving horse shit and gravel driveway grooming on my patch of desert.

There are John Deere and Massey Ferguson dealers in town.  I'm leaning toward the Massey because of price.

I find the complaint, especially from a professional group, of JD quick connect vs Skidloader very tiring.

Especially in the subcompact tractor market.  

Skidloader connects are heavier.  If you design them lighter, they have significantly more issues.   More moving parts to go bad and they DO go bad. Especially on larger equipment. The one on my NH TN60A is broken, AGAIN. (5th time in 1000 hours.)  So now it's just permanently attached to my grapple bucket.  

JD connect attachments for a sub compact are available, at the same prices and generally the same manufacturers.  Also, most of the time they're actually slightly cheaper from a place like titan attachments, because they're cheaper to make, less material.



That being said, it does look like the Kubota backhoe is better built.  But, then again I dislike tractor mounted backhoes in general. My opinion on them is very well expressed that I think they're useless and not worth the time.   The 1025r is also a ~8-10 year old design, and more inline with the older BX26.  I expect a re-fresh from John Deere sooner than later to keep up, as Kubota just refreshed the BX series.

Edit:

JD Has refreshed the backhoe design since that video.  That video was done on a 2017 1025R with 260 backhoe.      Big advantage to the 1025r in regular use:  More lifting capacity - by almost 200lbs over the Kubota.   The 260B backhoe also now shares a lot of new features.

For snow it really depends on where you need to put it. I started with the fel and rear blade at our new place and realized in spring I had to watch where I put the snow. I bought a hla snow pusher, because I basically have to push all my snow into a couple spots

Honestly I will get the use out of it. I have 300 yds of conduit to trench for, a 50yd retaining wall, two foundations to dig, about 15-20 stumps to dig out, and whatever posts I can’t hit with an auger to dig. Will take a lot of rental days to get all of that done with a rented excavator to take care of. The backhoe may not be the best option and it may be slower, but it will get the job done. I dug a pond for my FIL with a backhoe on a rented BX23 and while not ideal, it got the job done on rocky ground.  

As for the FEL and snow. I have an ATV with a plow. The problem is in heavy snows your path gets narrower and narrower. Having the ability to use the FEL to lift and move snow out of the way is necessary sometimes. This place has a 200yd long driveway through the woods. Picking up and dumping further in will be needed during big storms. Talking with the previous owners, who I’ve known for a while, they get a dozen or so storms a year over 8”, and usually one or two good ones over 18”.

what size foundation? footer or actual basement?

I've already said my opinion on the backhoe; I would agree it's probably not worth it for some, but others it's awesome. I am curious though, you mentioned it being difficult to dig a trench with a flat bottom with a backhoe; or easier with the mini-ex. Why is that? I've never had issues digging a flat bottom trench with my tractor-mounted backhoes.

ETA: Also on the note about getting the backhoe aligned to attach it; to the OP I would say the first few times at least that you do it, have the manual open and follow it step by step exactly as they say. I've seen people try to wing it and get into some major frustrations. But follow the instructions well, and the backhoe is really very easy to attach and detach. Even if you've taken it off on slightly uneven ground, it's easy to get it on since you're using the stabilizers to lift it up. I've gotten into much more difficult positions trying to reattach the FEL on slightly uneven ground. The more you do it though, just like most things, the faster and more efficient your process becomes.

30x40 ish footer/slab for a pole barn.

I love my BX23S. Zero complaints.

This makes removal/install of the backhoe a one min affair. They have some really nice add ons for the BX.

https://www.bxpanded.com/BX-bh-dolly

This, dont mess with the BX, get the B series. I have two tractors, one being a utility the other being a B2920, I cant imagine having anything smaller.

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I ended up with a used mahindra 1526. Price was right and dealer is family of the GF. The 1500/1600 series mahindras are mitsubishi built and a really solid compact tractor. Heavy duty builds, good loader lift capacity, solid heavy rear ends and 3 points. Everything you really need for tractor work IMO.
I agree with everyone else that said shop for the dealer though. Find one your comfortable with and will treat you right if you any issues were to arise. Any make of tractor could have issues arise and it would suck to be stuck without some dealer support when you need it the most.
The other thing is figure out what you want to do with the tractor, and then buy one bigger than you think you would need. I was originally looking at the max series mahindra and I am so happy I ended up with the 1526. Its just an all around better suited machine for what I ended up doing with it. At times I even wish I had a little bigger machine, but that usually when I'm trying to do something I probably shouldn't anyway.

Check out tractor time with Tim on YouTube.  He’s the subject matter expert on compact equipment, granted he definitely favors Deere.  Not that there’s anything wrong with that.  He even has a comparison on the BX vs 1025r.  

Also check out Good works tractor.

Been watching some good works videos. What I really need to do is go price some tractors in person and see where I’d land with either. There’s both a JD dealership and a Kubota dealer within 20 mins of the new place. Both are decent sized so we’ll see. Haven’t had much luck looking online and getting a solid answer on price.

Need thoughts on this price...


Looked at a BX23S yesterday. The local JD dealer hasn’t even got back to me yet after an email and phone call...so that’s telling. Kubota dealer will do $20,000 even for the tractor/loader/backhoe. That includes the quick release 2 lever loader bucket and a 12” backhoe bucket.  They quoted $1700 for a 54” belly mower. $75 for delivery (which I’ll try to get them to waive). Tax exempt as well...so $21700 out the door. I think that may be the answer unless anyone has any other suggestions.

ETA: Been looking at bxpanded.com and I think I’ll pick up a QD mount and ripper for the backhoe and a bolt-on blade edge for the loader bucket.

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It's pretty hard to really dig with a sub-compact backhoe; atleast in the soil around me. I always just ended up picking the tractor up off the ground.

I have an LS XJ202H; and found it to be the best bang/buck when I was shopping last year.

I looked hard at Kioti, LS, and a few others. Similarly equipped they were all within $1000 or so of the Kubota. All offered 1-2 HP more than the Kubota but none had dealers nearby (closest was about 65 miles). Resale also seems to be a bit lower than with green and orange. I wish there was a dealer closer honestly as it would have made any of them a more serious contender.

As for digging....I have about 12 hours time running the backhoe on an equal sized subcompact in rocky terrain. No, they don’t dig like a Cat 330, but they’ll get the job done with a little bit of patience.

Backhoes are expensive, but two years ago I did 1025r, loader, 54" deck, and rear blade for about 17k

That’s about what I paid, mine came with a 3PH and mechanical thumb.

Got the same accessories on the way from Bxpanded too.

I’m about 25 hrs into it, makes life so much easier. Among other things I Have a few dozen 6-12” alder stumps to rip out and I just do a few during lunch each day. With the claw and tooth bar I should be able to speed it up and smooth out the patch of land I’m working on. Fuel consumption right about .4 gph.

So far I have been very happy with my BX23s.  

The backhoe is useful as long as you realize the limitations.  I had no problem using the backhoe to excavate 30 ft x 4 ft x 10 inch deep section of heavy clay soil to put down a gravel base for the paver sidewalk in front of the house. It was very useful for that level of excavation and far more efficient than a shovel and grubbing hoe.  

You CAN accomplish more challenging tasks like diggging out a giant stumps with it as well (look on YouTube) but with the available breakout force you better have lots of time and patience.

Edit:  As to price I think I paid a little over 21K for it with the skid steer loader coupler, 3 pt hitch kit and no mower deck.  At the time I didn't think I needed the mower but later I realized I wanted one.  I trolled Craigslist for over a year before I saw a 60" deck locally.  New they are about 2K but ended up getting a lightly used one for $900.

Edit 2: If you get a BX series, before you take it out the first time without a mower deck make sure to buy the undercarriage armor.  The plastic cooling fan under the chassis is very exposed and needs to be properly protected from damage as the repair cost for that fan is pretty high.

Forgot to add the 3pt is included as well. And an additional $200 discount from the Farmer Veteran Coalition I forgot about.

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Good info...thanks. How easy are the skid plates to install/remove, or do they remain on and still maintain the ability to mount the mower deck?

Depends on the skid plate. I think BXpanded makes a full length plate that you can not use with the mower, but it supposedly goes off and on pretty quick and easy.

When I had my BX23, I had Bro-tek skid plates. They had a separate plate for the front and back. They seemed a little more robust, and the rear plate could be left in place while mounting the mower. Once it was on, I never took it off. The front plate had to come off to use the mower.

I would have given the BXpanded plate a harder look had I kept my BX23. Squeezing your hand in between the tractor and the rear skid plate when trying to attach the mower drive shaft was a bit annoying.

What did you go to when you got rid of the 23S?

I bought a Kubota B2650 last year. I did a lot of work with the BX23, but wanted the B2650 for more ground clearance, larger wheels (translates to a smoother ride among other things), higher FEL capacity, and longer backhoe reach.

I was using my BX23 on larger properties than most, and had access to larger equipment on one. But I'd use the BX23 for digging drainages, installing culverts on trails, and other things. Sometimes it was handy being able to get into tight spaces. I also needed to be able to transport it and only had a Tacoma at the time, so I had to be careful about weight.

Anything you don’t think the 23S could handle on 3 acres?  I’m about ready to pull the trigger. Don’t think I need a bigger machine for what I want to do. Bigger is sometimes better but in this case I don’t believe so.