Here's some info on the ladder line fed doublet, including how to get the feedline into the house: http://www.hamuniverse.com/hfdoublet.html

Nobody wrote that they were hanging their antennas 100ft in the air. Where did you get that from? But it sure would be nice if you could!

No, what I've been harping on is this: to get a really good performer, you need to get any dipole or doublet you put up at least 50ft above the ground. If you can't do that, then you are going to get much better performance from a ground mounted vertical (like the venerable DX Engineering 43ft version) than you will from a low hung wire antenna.

Now this is very VERY important: you will see a great many posts by people saying "I worked the world on a wet noodle two feet above the ground". And they did, they aren't lying. But it was much, MUCH harder for them to do so. Not saying they didn't have fun. But they are in "blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while" mode.

Gun analogy: hitting steel at 200 or even 500 yards with a .22 is possible. And, as a lark, sometimes even fun. And you will hit it every once in a while. But when you want to hit it every time, reliably, with no fuss or muss, you bring out a bigger, better, more suitable rifle. The problem with the "wet noodle/blind squirrel" crowd is that they don't know what they don't know. They've never used anything but the .22. They don't realize there is a whole other class of performance available to them. And finally, it is, of course, SO much easier to just throw up that end-fed 20 or 30 feet and be done with it. But on an absolute scale it is junk.

Thanks for this discussion.


For the moment I am going to use a coax fed MFJ 2012 OCFD.  I ordered it last night from HRO, other venders were back ordered on that style until June!   Definitely a run on gear.  This will get me started and likely like most antennas it won’t be the perfect thing.

In the summer I am looking at putting up a DXE package 43’.  Skip the unun version and go to a remote tuner at the antenna.  

That set up seems like it would be optimal for my site.    I’d rather have a buried line under the lawn than catch a feed line with the tractor loader  or something.  
Also my ideal shack area in the house is on the wrong side of the house.  Closer to the power and existing ground.  I figured a cable over the basement concrete wall to the ground then run 213 (?) clipped under the raised deck above the concrete pad and then run in conduit another 60-75’ to the antenna location in the open area.

Then the OcFD can revert to a camping or field day toss up.  

I'm determined to get on the air after getting my license over 6 years ago. Since the maximum height I would be able to get any wire up would be 20', it seems a vertical is really my only real option.

I have a fairly large backyard for radials, but how would the fact that any heavy rain often results in standing water in the yard, and very saturated ground sometimes for days afterwards?

GAP Titan, a multi-band vertical dipole that uses no radials. I have had one for years now and it works. I should have invested in a tilt-over base to secure it low to the ground during stormy weather, but it has survived a couple of 65-70 mph wind storms as is.

In what sense do you think the saturated ground would be a problem?

If it's that soft a self-supporting mount would require a substantial chunk of concrete. Or possibly a really deep mounting mast. A guyed installation would seem better if you can put up with the guys.

As far as the ground plane the water would only improve the performance.

Maybe, maybe not. That high would lead to undesirable takeoff angles on everything except the lowest frequency bands, unless part of a stack of elements.

Mainly support. I have about 6-8 inches of soil, below which clay, which is why I have the drainage problem. Guy wires would be a possibility.

My 80-10 EFHW hung 75ft between two trees is getting the job done. Checked in on the Tues net this week, contacts on 80,40, and 20. Heard nothing on 10. Can monitor 160 but the tuner can't bring SWR in line to transmit well. 40 seems noisier than 80 a lot of the time. Once I get comfortable with this, I can look into some of the other designs discussed on this thread but I don't see any problem if an EFHW works for you. The advantage in my case is that I have 75 of a 100ft run of rg213 hanging down. From the endfed, its supported by the transformer and rope. From a dipole, and other designs, thats a lot of weight.

It's time to bump this thread. I have brand new IC-7300 and Astron RS-35A-AP sitting in their boxes, so I REALLY need to start thinking about an antenna or antennas. I live on an acre in the country with a forest probably 50 feet from my back door and a few large maple trees in my yard.

Sounds like a good location for a dipole or inverted "V". LINK

In the meantime, stick a wire in the center of the coax connector and start becoming familiar with the receive functions.
The 7300 is also an ideal SWL receiver. Program some of the memories for the SW broadcast bands. While SW BC is not what it used to be, there's still a lot of interesting stuff out there.

Thanks for the link. I actually read through the long version of antenna types there a week or so ago. A couple of quick questions to get me started. Should I choose a couple of bands like 40 and 80 and build dipoles for each (I have no idea what the most-used bands are.) Do I need to orient them in particular directions to get the most out of them? North/South to get East/West coverage?

I am here:

Unless a dipole is mounted about a half-wavelength or more above ground, the radiation pattern is going to pretty much circular.
Most operation will be on 40 and 20, with some 80 after dark.
A 40/20 Meter fan dipole will give you a "bonus band" of 15 Meters. You'll probably have to add a couple of "capacity hats" to bring the SWR down if operation is going to be in the upper portions of the band.
You could do a 80/40/20 fan dipole, but getting it properly  tuned can be a PITA because the elements interact.
Fan Dipole
Capacity hats

HERE'S a detailed article on antennas, feed lines, and propagation.
Skip down to Section V for the good stuff on HF propagation.
You can find propagation predictions here and here.

The activity within theAuroral Oval directly relates to ionospheric disturbances that affect propagation.
As a side benefit, when it's active, search YouTube for "aurora live stream Finland" or "aurora live stream Canada". There's a chance you'll see some spectacular displays of the Northern Lights.

When I home brewed my 80/40/20 fan dipole, I ran the 80m wire 90 degrees out from the other 2 and got no interaction. At 50 feet it doesn't really matter which way the 80m wire runs.