User Panel
Posted: 7/3/2018 7:46:38 PM EDT
I was thinking about this the other day. In some ways it almost seems as bad as the power going out (that might happen as a consequence, too) since so many things would just halt. I work at a 400+ person manufacturing facility and even though none of our process equipment is networked, we would be crippled. No e-mail (off-site server, wouldn't surprise me if it's in China), no phones as all of them except for 1 at security are IP phones and even those are going away to be replaced with everything going through skype, no way to do planning, can't access networked drives (all off-site), etc.
Aside from these minor issues in the grand scheme of things, what else stops working due to the internet being out? Credit card processing including EBT? I know most places at least around here have dial up backups, but if the internet was truly out would that stop the servers at the other end from working? Do regular land lines still keep working? Cell phones? Do cell towers usually still have a POTS line or two, or do they all use the internet backbone to connect in some way? Flight tracking/timing/etc? Power generation? Even tv and radio would be hit. Lots of them get their programming from an internet data connection. I know due to the way it is designed the entire internet going dead at one time is unlikely, but what else are we taking for granted when it comes to interconnected communications? |
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[#3]
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[#10]
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[#13]
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[#14]
Quoted:
My life would go back to a more peaceful time View Quote Banking and utilities would cease without computers, the infrastructure would crash, nobody could live in any hi-rises in the cities above the 5th floor, especially without working fire suppression, or climate controls in buildings with non-functional windows, and we dont have people who can make wagons or barrels or candles, or train horses, for daily life in the 1300s. Without google and databases - nobody (95% of the population of 1st world countries) would know how to DO anything to survive. 50% of the 3rd world would starve if we stopped sending them food and ammunition. |
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[#16]
Quoted:
Yeah, roughly the 1200's, because without electricity we'd regress to the 1800s, but we don't have the infrastructure for trade, healthcare, sanitation, refrigeration, food production and communications to only go back to the 1300s. Banking and utilities would cease without computers, the infrastructure would crash, nobody could live in any hi-rises in the cities above the 5th floor, especially without working fire suppression, or climate controls in buildings with non-functional windows, and we dont have people who can make wagons or barrels or candles, or train horses, for daily life in the 1300s. Without google and databases - nobody (95% of the population of 1st world countries) would know how to DO anything to survive. 50% of the 3rd world would starve if we stopped sending them food and ammunition. View Quote |
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[#17]
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[#18]
Quoted:
Yeah, roughly the 1200's, because without electricity we'd regress to the 1800s, but we don't have the infrastructure for trade, healthcare, sanitation, refrigeration, food production and communications to only go back to the 1300s. Banking and utilities would cease without computers, the infrastructure would crash, nobody could live in any hi-rises in the cities above the 5th floor, especially without working fire suppression, or climate controls in buildings with non-functional windows, and we dont have people who can make wagons or barrels or candles, or train horses, for daily life in the 1300s. Without google and databases - nobody (95% of the population of 1st world countries) would know how to DO anything to survive. 50% of the 3rd world would starve if we stopped sending them food and ammunition. View Quote BUT all the snowflakes would collapse without their net to rely on. |
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[#19]
We didn't have the internet 25yrs ago and survived just fine.
I think it would be great! Kids would go outside and play again, people would socialize in person. |
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[#22]
Yep! Us old timers can remember there being no Internet, cellphones, microwaves, and even AC was scarce!
Somehow we all survived just fine! |
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[#23]
Quoted:
Cell phones? Do cell towers usually still have a POTS line or two, or do they all use the internet backbone to connect in some way? View Quote Lots of internet carried on phones and lots of phones carried on internet. I doubt they can be separated. Most the telco stuff can just be viewed as a separate, timing-sensitive network parallel to the internet. It's really not possible for the whole internet to go down, due to the reasons you cite. It is possible, however, for it to be broken into a thousand separate islands and with loss of access to things like DNS servers, the average user is going to have a hard time accessing much in those islands. |
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[#24]
Quoted:
The millenials would all commit suicide View Quote Me? I just went to bed. I have been at two grocery stores, one of which was Wal Mart, when they had internet outages. If you had a credit or debit card, you could not pay for your purchase. It was cash or check only. Just in the few minutes I was there, Wal Mart had to lose hundreds of dollars in sales. With the prevalence of credit and debit cards, I can't believe they don't have an alternate method of processing credit cards, even dial up! |
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[#26]
Quoted: We had an unplanned internet outage last Monday. My daughter went nuts! Me? I just went to bed. I have been at two grocery stores, one of which was Wal Mart, when they had internet outages. If you had a credit or debit card, you could not pay for your purchase. It was cash or check only. Just in the few minutes I was there, Wal Mart had to lose hundreds of dollars in sales. With the prevalence of credit and debit cards, I can't believe they don't have an alternate method of processing credit cards, even dial up! View Quote |
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[#27]
Things would be tough for a lot of reasons for awhile in some areas and much better in others areas, such as social media's control of people's thoughts. Then the country would start improving quickly as folks figured how much social media had been inappropriately controlling their lives and they had to start thinking for themselves instead of being led like lemmings.
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[#28]
I was in the mountains in Colorado a couple of years ago when someone managed to cut a main fiber trunk. Internet and cell phone service were down for several hours.
The interesting thing was that most gas stations couldn't even pump gas...even if you had cash. Almost all of the pumps are turned on by Internet connection now, apparently with no manual override. |
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[#29]
At work, we'd have to figure out how to transfer programs to the CNC machines via the USB/card ports, at least the machines that have them, instead of the network.
It'd cut production WAY down, let me tell you. Still have a number of machines that are network only, no cards (not even the big old ones), no USB. I think they finally took the last floppy drives out of the older machines a few years ago. I know they finally figured out how to (or installed a interface) get the wire EDM on the network. It was only 2-3 years ago they were using 3.5" floppies, then briefly USB sticks. |
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[#30]
Quoted: We had an unplanned internet outage last Monday. My daughter went nuts! Me? I just went to bed. I have been at two grocery stores, one of which was Wal Mart, when they had internet outages. If you had a credit or debit card, you could not pay for your purchase. It was cash or check only. Just in the few minutes I was there, Wal Mart had to lose hundreds of dollars in sales. With the prevalence of credit and debit cards, I can't believe they don't have an alternate method of processing credit cards, even dial up! View Quote Luckily my children are young still young (oldest being 10) they enjoy their Netflix and all but as of late I've had to throttle them down a bit and force them to be kids. Being in AZ it takes work as a parent to not succumb to the ease of just letting them watch tv or play Nintendo when it's hot out, taking a trip to the pool is fun and all but you can only do that so much or things around the house start to stack up. One gripe I do have is it seem's like family support systems are a thing of the past. I know the wife and I have zero support aside from making a hour and a half drive to the in laws but even then they don't have the patients to watch the grandkids for more than a few hours. I remember growing up always having a aunt/uncle, grandma or grandpa to spend time with, heck we used to get put to work in the fields as adolescent kids during the summer and had a blast doing it. was money in our pockets and we often got to drive our grandfathers truck, mower and occasionally the tractor from about age 12ish. Now a days both parents often have to work to live comfortably, both grandparents have to work full time up to the wire and by retirement age they're tattered. I work with several guys who are well into their 70's and continue to work as they have an ill spouse and they won't make it without quality insurance, or their still supporting their 30-40 year old children and there children. it's pretty grim times it appears. I for one attribute a lot of these issues to the internet and ultimately American Greed! too to many people are all worried about what everybody has than to just live humble and enjoy the finer things in life like family, morals, values and thy fellow man. I'll get off my soap box now. sorry for the winded rant |
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[#31]
You can text on the ham radio APRS system.
You can also e-mail but that won't help if internet is down. "Automatic Packet Reporting System (APRS) is an amateur radio-based system for real time digital communications of information of immediate value in the local area.[1] Data can include object Global Positioning System (GPS) coordinates, weather station telemetry, text messages, announcements, queries, and other telemetry. APRS data can be displayed on a map, which can show stations, objects, tracks of moving objects, weather stations, search and rescue data, and direction finding data." |
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[#33]
Quoted:
We didn't have the internet 25yrs ago and survived just fine. I think it would be great! Kids would go outside and play again, people would socialize in person. View Quote Then watch as they complain about 3 layer carbon paper and who keeps what. Let alone the increase in carpal tunnel from the effort of sliding the copier over the card twice |
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[#34]
Quoted:
Ask anyone below 25 in age to run a cr3dit card the old way, or write a check. Then watch as they complain about 3 layer carbon paper and who keeps what. Let alone the increase in carpal tunnel from the effort of sliding the copier over the card twice View Quote |
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[#35]
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[#36]
Quoted:
I was thinking about this the other day. In some ways it almost seems as bad as the power going out (that might happen as a consequence, too) since so many things would just halt. I work at a 400+ person manufacturing facility and even though none of our process equipment is networked, we would be crippled. No e-mail (off-site server, wouldn't surprise me if it's in China), no phones as all of them except for 1 at security are IP phones and even those are going away to be replaced with everything going through skype, no way to do planning, can't access networked drives (all off-site), etc. Aside from these minor issues in the grand scheme of things, what else stops working due to the internet being out? View Quote We need to be thinking seriously about a work-around solution if the 'net were to go down tomorrow. |
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[#37]
Wait! The Far Left Fake News Media has all ready said:
"With out Net Neutrality", The Internet is gone!!! PITA45 |
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[#38]
Quoted: Several of my cards don't even have the raised name/numbers necessary for an imprint. I seriously doubt most stores have an imprint machine or even a stock of the slips. View Quote Who carries enough cash on them to pay for a purchase or who carries a checkbook anymore? I carry a few dollars, but not much, and haven't carried a checkbook in 15+ years. From what i've seen at the stores, most folks are using credit cards or debit cards. So when the internet goes down, cards can't be read and sales are lost. If I owned a company or a business, i'd definitely try to find a backup way other than saying "sorry folks, can't sell to you today." |
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[#39]
A week or two ago the internet service in my area went out for almost 5 hours. After 2 hours, my wife lost her marbles and proceeded to use our entire month’s worth of LTE.
She just “had” to send that picture and “had” to look up some random thing on google. Yeah. I think we’d be boned if the internet went out for more than a few days. |
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[#40]
I wouldn't be able to reach ARFCOM and would assume it was FO time.
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[#41]
Quoted:
Several of my cards don't even have the raised name/numbers necessary for an imprint. I seriously doubt most stores have an imprint machine or even a stock of the slips. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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[#42]
I've been to an area that had its internet blown offline. It wasn't fun. Businesses were cash only because there was no comms to the banks. No cash? Too bad, sucks to be you. The ability to order supplies and the business logistics pipeline in general failed. Some of the big-box stores (Wallyworld, HomieDepot, others) had to create their own logistics pipelines before they could reopen. Businesses without that wherewithal just had to close up and wait.
Sending e-mail required using a ham radio and Winlink to connect to someplace off the island. If somebody clobbered the root servers, even that wouldn't be available. We've become so accustomed to having the internet at our beck and call that when we don't have it, we're suddenly at a loss for how to entertain ourselves. There were times when I didn't have cell or internet in the evenings that I just decided to go to bed at 9-930. Probably just as well since I was working 11 hour days 7 days a week. |
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[#43]
Quoted:
I've been to an area that had its internet blown offline. It wasn't fun. Businesses were cash only because there was no comms to the banks. No cash? Too bad, sucks to be you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I've been to an area that had its internet blown offline. It wasn't fun. Businesses were cash only because there was no comms to the banks. No cash? Too bad, sucks to be you. For example, my wife worked at a major banking institution in the late '90s in the run up to Y2K, which as we now know was a nothing-fizzle. But in the fall of 1999, there were several 'anticipatory' panic runs on banks in our area after rumors spread, along with one or two front page news reports, of banks not having enough cash reserves for hand-to-hand withdrawals if Y2K shut down vaults and electronic transactions due to electricity loss. For a few days there were long lines of panicky folks trying to get inside to a teller to withdraw cash, and lines of cars waiting to go thru the drive-thru ATM line. The ability to order supplies and the business logistics pipeline in general failed. Some of the big-box stores (Wallyworld, HomieDepot, others) had to create their own logistics pipelines before they could reopen. Businesses without that wherewithal just had to close up and wait.
Sending e-mail required using a ham radio and Winlink to connect to someplace off the island. If somebody clobbered the root servers, even that wouldn't be available. We've become so accustomed to having the internet at our beck and call that when we don't have it, we're suddenly at a loss for how to entertain ourselves. There were times when I didn't have cell or internet in the evenings that I just decided to go to bed at 9-930. Probably just as well since I was working 11 hour days 7 days a week. |
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[#44]
Quoted:
The OP said just if the internet would go down, not all the electricity. Plus, computers work without the internet. Mine do. BUT all the snowflakes would collapse without their net to rely on. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, roughly the 1200's, because without electricity we'd regress to the 1800s, but we don't have the infrastructure for trade, healthcare, sanitation, refrigeration, food production and communications to only go back to the 1300s. Banking and utilities would cease without computers, the infrastructure would crash, nobody could live in any hi-rises in the cities above the 5th floor, especially without working fire suppression, or climate controls in buildings with non-functional windows, and we dont have people who can make wagons or barrels or candles, or train horses, for daily life in the 1300s. Without google and databases - nobody (95% of the population of 1st world countries) would know how to DO anything to survive. 50% of the 3rd world would starve if we stopped sending them food and ammunition. BUT all the snowflakes would collapse without their net to rely on. You really have no idea how much of the stuff you take for granted relies on networked connections, do you? Seriously, banking, manufacturing, food distribution, maintenance of utilities... I'm not sure what you use your computers for, but most of ours at work need an internet connection to be anything more than a paperweight. If the intranet went down (which it likely would in short order) then every one of them would be a paperweight. The 1200's might be a stretch, but it would take quite a bit of time to get things back to just an 1800's level of productivity. |
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[#45]
Quoted: From a business management point of view, that drives me up a wall. I learned management from my father, who spent over 20 years as an assistant and then store manager. He taught me to make the sale. Who carries enough cash on them to pay for a purchase or who carries a checkbook anymore? I carry a few dollars, but not much, and haven't carried a checkbook in 15+ years. From what i've seen at the stores, most folks are using credit cards or debit cards. So when the internet goes down, cards can't be read and sales are lost. If I owned a company or a business, i'd definitely try to find a backup way other than saying "sorry folks, can't sell to you today." View Quote You can still sell to customers that HAVE MONEY. |
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[#46]
Quoted:
It's not the end of the world.... You can still sell to customers that HAVE MONEY. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: From a business management point of view, that drives me up a wall. I learned management from my father, who spent over 20 years as an assistant and then store manager. He taught me to make the sale. Who carries enough cash on them to pay for a purchase or who carries a checkbook anymore? I carry a few dollars, but not much, and haven't carried a checkbook in 15+ years. From what i've seen at the stores, most folks are using credit cards or debit cards. So when the internet goes down, cards can't be read and sales are lost. If I owned a company or a business, i'd definitely try to find a backup way other than saying "sorry folks, can't sell to you today." You can still sell to customers that HAVE MONEY. |
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[#47]
Why this would be TEOTWAWKI for SOME "preppers"- how would they finalize their "lists" and "lists of lists" when the internet is down? How would they log on to survival forums asking "what does the hive think, should I start getting some food now that the SHTF?" That truly would be a hard time for those that have played academic "research" survivalist all this time but haven't actually DONE much.
Did business before the internet and it would be possible afterwards, just drastically different than now. Consumers would do well to PRINT out phone numbers of companies they do business with, to include preparedness companies that carry all the stuff on those "lists" they are making but many aren't actually doing. Businesses can still take a CC over the phone, we do it every day, nothing magical about that. However so many companies don't even list phone numbers. I remember having one of my cards hacked after using it on an ammo seller's website. Next time I needed to order I thought "I'll just call them with the order." OMG, what a PITA. No numbers listed anywhere, and I mean anywhere. Sent an email- "Hey regular customer here, need to place a phone order, can you email me back with a phone number or call me at.." Got a reply a couple days later and the ammo seller told me- "we don't do any phone orders." WTFF over? And while most places probably use the net to PROCESS cards, some don't and still use the phone lines. We purposely set ours up to utilize the phone line versus the net for authorizations. You'll want to order over the phone with any "last minute" purchases most of the time anyways. Typically when things go nutty it gets very busy in the survival industry. You want to actually talk to someone, confirm that something IS actually still in stock versus just hoping your internet order got picked up in time (if net is still up). In person stuff- definitely bring cash. I know the "mommy won't let me" types and the "if I have more than $3.50 in cash I'll be considered a drug dealer" types will cry about this, but you should have a good amount of cash so you can function in this environment. "But Walmart isn't set up for that, blah blah blah"- A lot of this is common sense and a bit of social engineering. Mom and Pops store will take cash and anyone with a half a brain in business with have a calculator if they are slow on the draw with addition. Bring a small solar calculator with you if your worried about it. "Let's see it's $300. for the purchase and then 7% sales tax = $21. so $321. correct? You can just write me a receipt on the back of your business card..." A lot of folks won't think about that, and suggesting it will often get the wheels turning. If their is a line or a bunch of pissed off cause their debit card won't work people in there, they will be looking for answers. And it's hard to think that anyone even semi serious about survival won't have a couple hundred cash tucked in a hidey spot in their wallet. |
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[#48]
Quoted:
Translation: you can still make a fraction of the sales of your competition. Not a great business decision. View Quote |
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[#49]
The building next to me was a gas station from 1946 till 1974. I bought it many years ago and it still has a manual CC machine and boxes of three copy carbon slips up in the attic.
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