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Posted: 10/7/2023 1:10:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
Must-have: Adjustable Declination, Inclinometer, "Global" needle, Magnifying lens, reliable phosphorescent lighting, and excellent customer service. Trit vials fade over time and are expensive to replace.
No need for "unusual"/expensive features. Mils not required, for example. Compass will be used for general land navigation, and perhaps other similar uses. Two candidates so far: Suunto MC-2G, a Mirror-sighting compass MC-2G , and Suunto M3G Suunto M3G, a baseplate compass, Willing to consider Cammenga military lensatic compass, Cammenga compass Currently own a Silva Ranger V1.0 compass, a Silva mini-compass, a Suunto wrist compass, a GI wrist compass, and a commercial clone of Cammenga compass. Your suggestions, please. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2023 1:39:30 PM EDT
[#1]
I have used Suunto since I learned to use one as a Boy Scout… does what I need it to do.
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Posted: 10/7/2023 2:31:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Cammenga military lensatic is what I have used for decades. Still using it.
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Posted: 10/7/2023 3:22:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Go with the MC-2.
IMO the Cammenga is a heavy, outdated dinosaur. I have a few but never use them. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2023 8:59:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Okay, I've done a compass course given by a Marine Corp reserve officer back 40 years ago. They taught using maps and calibrated pacing. After I got a Garmin GPS60 GPS, I stopped carrying the Cammenga. Mostly used the GPS to keep from crossing into NC when hunting.
When I used the compass, it was to keep track of directions when leaving the road. I never carried a map while hunting. Around western SC when the canopy is green, you can't see landmarks at all. So you guys are using compasses and maps for land navigation out west or in Alaska? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2023 10:59:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Cammenga commercial version, luminous non tritium. Carried it while training and while working volunteer SAR with the county. Never had a problem reading it in the dark. My only problem is that I keep misplacing it.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 9:44:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#6]
Edited Original Post to show what I already have and added "Magnifying Lens" to requirements. Might come in handy in reading map features if "cheater" glasses are lost/unavailable.
Sorry if this "throws-off" some suggestions. Much obliged for comments so far. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 11:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ROCK6]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Edited Original Post to show what I already have and added "Magnifying Lens" to requirements. Might come in handy in reading map features if "cheater" glasses are lost/unavailable. Sorry if this "throws-off" some suggestions. Much obliged for comments so far. I have a couple of Cammenga lensatic compasses, but both have been relegated to alternate or backup geat. My primary compass is the M2G, just better features. Having been under some thicker canopies and deep ravines that limited GPS LOS, the compass is still a serious backup. I also use both GPS and compass to confirm azimuth calibration for each other. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:54:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ROCK6: I have a couple of Cammenga lensatic compasses, but both have been relegated to alternate or backup geat. My primary compass is the M2G, just better features. Having been under some thicker canopies and deep ravines that limited GPS LOS, the compass is still a serious backup. I also use both GPS and compass to confirm azimuth calibration for each other. ROCK6 Since I have other compasses, I can't justify the expense of replacing them with new items. The M-3G fills a gap in what I already have. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:59:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StealthyBlagga: I have used Suunto since I learned to use one as a Boy Scout… does what I need it to do. Came to post this... |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 4:46:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Good to know, but exactly which Suunto (or other) compass to buy/use might be valuable info.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 5:11:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FredMan]
[#11]
You want one of the Suunto or Silva mirror-sighting baseplate compasses. I suggest the quadrant version as opposed to the azimuth version. I need to turn a lot of 45/90/180 degree angles in the woods, and the quadrants make that easier. Less mental math required in the woods. (N37W has a reciprocal bearing of S37E)
They are the gold standard. The mirror sighting lets you very accurately take a bearing or walk a bearing. The mirror is useful as an emergency signaling device, and helps you get that twig out of your eye (ask me how I know). The baseplate lets you measure distances and angles pretty accurately. And allow a great grip (in conjunction with the lanyard) to sight with. Think of it like a sling; attach the lanyard to you clothing, app,y tension, and then sight. I’ve used these daily for over 3 decades in my forester job. Cruising timber, finding property lines, establishing harvest boundaries, everything. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 5:27:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FredMan: You want one of the Suunto or Silva mirror-sighting baseplate compasses. I suggest the quadrant version as opposed to the azimuth version. I need to turn a lot of 45/90/180 degree angles in the woods, and the quadrants make that easier. Less mental math required in the woods. (N37W has a reciprocal bearing of S37E) They are the gold standard. The mirror sighting lets you very accurately take a bearing or walk a bearing. The mirror is useful as an emergency signaling device, and helps you get that twig out of your eye (ask me how I know). The baseplate lets you measure distances and angles pretty accurately. And allow a great grip (in conjunction with the lanyard) to sight with. Think of it like a sling; attach the lanyard to you clothing, app,y tension, and then sight. I've used these daily for over 3 decades in my forester job. Cruising timber, finding property lines, establishing harvest boundaries, everything. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 8:17:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Most folks do NOT suggest "quad" compasses unless user-specific requirements demand such. Willing to learn. I find it much more simple, but I’m used to working in bearings as opposed to azimuths. Probably stems from the fact that metes and bounds survey descriptions are always in bearings. It’s easy to convert, though, all you really need to know is 360 degrees in a circle, and the four cardinal directions of N S E W. And 4 grade math. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 3:12:43 PM EDT
[#14]
TYVM for your informed comments. I believe my needs differ from yours, with no disrespect.
I'm buying the Suunto M3-G compass because it fills a "hole" in my compass ensemble. As noted above, I have lots of other compasses, but no "baseplate" style of compass. The Suunto M3-G compass fills that niche nicely. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2023 3:44:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: TYVM for your informed comments. I believe my needs differ from yours, with no disrespect. I'm buying the Suunto M3-G compass because it fills a "hole" in my compass ensemble. As noted above, I have lots of other compasses, but no "baseplate" style of compass. The Suunto M3-G compass fills that niche nicely. Have and recommend the Suunto MC-2G. Some folks will say that the ability to adjust/compensate for magnetic declination is negligible unless you're using it for orientation in different continents. Here's a declination map for just the USA. You can decide if it's important to you. https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/location/65-declination |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:01:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluemax_1: Have and recommend the Suunto MC-2G. Some folks will say that the ability to adjust/compensate for magnetic declination is negligible unless you're using it for orientation in different continents. Here's a declination map for just the USA. You can decide if it's important to you. https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/location/65-declination Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluemax_1: Originally Posted By raf: TYVM for your informed comments. I believe my needs differ from yours, with no disrespect. I'm buying the Suunto M3-G compass because it fills a "hole" in my compass ensemble. As noted above, I have lots of other compasses, but no "baseplate" style of compass. The Suunto M3-G compass fills that niche nicely. Have and recommend the Suunto MC-2G. Some folks will say that the ability to adjust/compensate for magnetic declination is negligible unless you're using it for orientation in different continents. Here's a declination map for just the USA. You can decide if it's important to you. https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/location/65-declination TYVM for kind--and useful--suggestion! I found this site useful: NOAA Compass Declination "Global Needle/Compass" is a luxury for most folks, but one never knows where one will wander. Having a compass GTG in all hemispheres might come in handy someday. As said, the Suunto M3-G compass fills in a platform niche given the other compasses I own (mentioned above), in addition to the "global needle" feature. As mentioned, I already have a Silva V1.0 "Ranger" compass with mirror. The Suunto M3-G adds "baseplate" features along "global" needle. No Expert, but being able to understand magnetic declination, and having the ability to adjust for same on one's compass seems to me to be pretty valuable. I'm sure some folks don't need to include magnetic declination for short trips, but understanding the principle seems very useful to me, especially on longer trips, or where some sort of added precision is needed. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:08:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Too late to recommend Brunton, but always worth considering.
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:11:33 PM EDT
[#18]
The military types are better for taking bearings off of landmarks and at night... the mirror types are nicer on the map.
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:16:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryToo late to recommend Brunton, but always worth considering. I just looked for a compass folks here recommended, and which "checked" all my boxes, and then searched for price. I kinda "knew" what I wanted, but asked here for advice in case I was mistaken. Call it a "reality check" of sorts. Suunto/Silva/Brunton are all respected mfrs. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:19:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: The military types are better for taking bearings off of landmarks and at night... the mirror types are nicer on the map. Same thing with ancient Silva V1.0 Ranger mirror compass, and other back-up compasses. IDK if phosphorescent coatings degrade over time or degrade due to exposure to daylight. I've had wristwatch luminescent indicators become "less bright" even when exposed to bright light; often being unusable in the dark. Might be time for me to learn. Ancient compasses stored in the dark for ages. I'll take them out and flash a light on them in the dark. Let's see what happens. We all know that Trit illumination is what it is. Trit reduces in emitted light pretty predictably, having a "Half-life" of about 12 years. IOW, in 12 years, your Trit sight will emit 1/2 the light when new. It's the only item impossible to "stock-up" on! |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:43:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: TYVM for kind--and useful--suggestion! I found this site useful: NOAA Compass Declination "Global Needle/Compass" is a luxury for most folks, but one never knows where one will wander. Having a compass GTG in all hemispheres might come in handy someday. As said, the Suunto M3-G compass fills in a platform niche given the other compasses I own (mentioned above), in addition to the "global needle" feature. As mentioned, I already have a Silva V1.0 "Ranger" compass with mirror. The Suunto M3-G adds "baseplate" features along "global" needle. No Expert, but being able to understand magnetic declination, and having the ability to adjust for same on one's compass seems to me to be pretty valuable. I'm sure some folks don't need to include magnetic declination for short trips, but understanding the principle seems very useful to me, especially on longer trips, or where some sort of added precision is needed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Originally Posted By raf: TYVM for your informed comments. I believe my needs differ from yours, with no disrespect. I'm buying the Suunto M3-G compass because it fills a "hole" in my compass ensemble. As noted above, I have lots of other compasses, but no "baseplate" style of compass. The Suunto M3-G compass fills that niche nicely. Have and recommend the Suunto MC-2G. Some folks will say that the ability to adjust/compensate for magnetic declination is negligible unless you're using it for orientation in different continents. Here's a declination map for just the USA. You can decide if it's important to you. https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/location/65-declination TYVM for kind--and useful--suggestion! I found this site useful: NOAA Compass Declination "Global Needle/Compass" is a luxury for most folks, but one never knows where one will wander. Having a compass GTG in all hemispheres might come in handy someday. As said, the Suunto M3-G compass fills in a platform niche given the other compasses I own (mentioned above), in addition to the "global needle" feature. As mentioned, I already have a Silva V1.0 "Ranger" compass with mirror. The Suunto M3-G adds "baseplate" features along "global" needle. No Expert, but being able to understand magnetic declination, and having the ability to adjust for same on one's compass seems to me to be pretty valuable. I'm sure some folks don't need to include magnetic declination for short trips, but understanding the principle seems very useful to me, especially on longer trips, or where some sort of added precision is needed. Main difference between the MC-2G and M3-G is the mirror (2 also has an inclinometer, if that feature is useful to you). Both have the baseplate features. As someone else mentioned, aside from a slight edge in accurate readings/bearings, having a mirror in the backcountry is handy. My thinking is I might as well have the extra functionality of one attached to the compass. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 6:59:43 PM EDT
[#22]
I started off using Silvas thirty years ago. Now, gimme a Suunto. They are easy to use and reliable. Really, 90% of my compass use is with my Casio Pro Trek, and the rest through GPS. My compass still follows me, but I never use it.
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Posted: 10/12/2023 9:17:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bluemax_1: Main difference between the MC-2G and M3-G is the mirror (2 also has an inclinometer, if that feature is useful to you). Both have the baseplate features. As someone else mentioned, aside from a slight edge in accurate readings/bearings, having a mirror in the backcountry is handy. My thinking is I might as well have the extra functionality of one attached to the compass. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2023 1:14:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: I believe the Silva "Ranger" compass I already own is very close to the Suunto MC-2. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Main difference between the MC-2G and M3-G is the mirror (2 also has an inclinometer, if that feature is useful to you). Both have the baseplate features. As someone else mentioned, aside from a slight edge in accurate readings/bearings, having a mirror in the backcountry is handy. My thinking is I might as well have the extra functionality of one attached to the compass. Out of curiosity, what features were you looking for that the M3-G has, that the Ranger or MC-2G don't? |
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Posted: 10/12/2023 1:19:35 PM EDT
[#25]
I think global needles are a bit overrated; the only difference is the pivot for the needle in a global compass allows for greater vertical deflection.
The purpose of a global needle is that the inclination of magnetic fields isn’t necessarily horizontal to the surface of the earth, so greater vertical deflection of the needle allows (they say) more accurate reading as it’s not binding up on the pivot. I took mine to Peru, which has a greater magnetic inclination than the US, and I didn’t notice any significant difference. And, for clarity, inclination here has nothing to do with declination, which as we know is the difference in bearing between true north and magnetic north. |
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Posted: 10/12/2023 1:21:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: The military types are better for taking bearings off of landmarks and at night... the mirror types are nicer on the map. I vehemently disagree on the taking bearings comment. A mirror sighting compass has always yielded greater ease and accuracy of reading, for me. But, if you’re used to lensatic type compasses, YMMV. |
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Posted: 10/12/2023 1:22:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: I believe the Silva "Ranger" compass I already own is very close to the Suunto MC-2. It’s essentially the same thing. Minor capsule and scale differences. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2023 10:14:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: radioshooter]
[#28]
It's been a long time, but is there still a difference between the military side scale and the USGS map?
Just looking at the one I have, it's not a Cammenga. It's a Stocker and Yale Sandy 183 3h whatever that is? The scale on the side when unfolded shows 1:50000 USGS topo maps are 1:24000 iirc. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2023 2:07:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By radioshooter: It's been a long time, but is there still a difference between the military side scale and the USGS map? Just looking at the one I have, it's not a Cammenga. It's a Stocker and Yale Sandy 183 3h whatever that is? The scale on the side when unfolded shows 1:50000 USGS topo maps are 1:24000 iirc. Not sure about the others, but I know Suunto has both Metric and USGS models of their MC-2G. - The Metric/International model has 1:50000 and 1:25000 scales. https://www.suunto.com/Products/Compasses/Suunto-MC-2-Global1/Suunto-MC-2-G-Mirror-Compass/ - The USGS model has both 1:50000 and 1:24000 scales. https://www.suunto.com/Products/Compasses/Suunto-MC-2-Global1/Suunto-MC-2-G-USGS-Mirror-Compass/ - *** there's also a Military model of the MC-2G with mil markings. https://www.suunto.com/Products/Compasses/Suunto-MC-2-Global1/Suunto-MC-2G6400/ |
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Posted: 10/13/2023 5:25:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By radioshooter: It's been a long time, but is there still a difference between the military side scale and the USGS map? Just looking at the one I have, it's not a Cammenga. It's a Stocker and Yale Sandy 183 3h whatever that is? The scale on the side when unfolded shows 1:50000 USGS topo maps are 1:24000 iirc. The Ranger and equivalents typically have 24,000, 50,000 and inch and centimeter scales. I liked the inch scale to be in 20ths of an inch, because one of our common map scales is 1:15,840, or 1 inch=20 chains=0.25 mile. We pace in chains for distance, and direct reading of chains simplifies things. All I really need for map distance measuring is the scale factor and a good ruler. |
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Posted: 10/13/2023 6:07:07 PM EDT
[#31]
I recently bought some map "Protractors" which should allow me to use various maps, regardless of the scales on the compass. Learning how to use such tools is pretty important, I reckon.
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Posted: 10/27/2023 7:29:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#32]
Can't find elderly "commercial" replica of GI Cammenga compass, so ordering a new one, direct from Mfr.
ETA: Ebay NIB unit was about $52. This allows me to learn how to use the various "types" of compasses, having many different "types" of compasses on hand. I did find the elderly Silva "Ranger" compass, along with Silva "Wrist" compass as well as Silva "Mini-Compass". I have the tools, but I have much to learn. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 3:25:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#33]
Including a home-made set of pace-counting "Ranger Beads", along with compass-specific instructions and current declination info with each compass I have on-hand. Such "Ranger Beads" simply made at scant expense.
Giving away spare sets of home-made Ranger Beads as gifts to like-minded friends. Common Pre-Made Ranger Bead rig is about $12+ on amazon. I bought 1K beads for about $4 and used stripped GI 550 cord "shells" on-hand. Takes me about 10 minutes to make a "Ranger Bead" rig. Do the math.  How to make simple pace counting (ranger) beads |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 3:53:54 PM EDT
[#34]
I never understood the need for ranger beads.
Before we got GPS we had to compass and pace all our fieldwork. We use the chain as the basic unit of measure (1 chain = 66 feet). I have a 12-pace chain (and a pace is two steps, left and right). So when I'm out landnaving I use the method of chains-pace for distance; i.e. I maintain a count in my head of how many chains and paces, like "12-4", which means 12 and 4/12 chains, which translates to 814 feet. With some practice you can get REALLY good with pacing distance. It's one of the events in our forestry competitions. My best was being off 10 feet 3.25 inches on a 5-leg, 55 chain (3,630 feet) run through the woods. That's a 0.29% error over nearly 7/10 of a mile. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 8:28:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FredMan: I never understood the need for ranger beads. Before we got GPS we had to compass and pace all our fieldwork. We use the chain as the basic unit of measure (1 chain = 66 feet). I have a 12-pace chain (and a pace is two steps, left and right). So when I'm out landnaving I use the method of chains-pace for distance; i.e. I maintain a count in my head of how many chains and paces, like "12-4", which means 12 and 4/12 chains, which translates to 814 feet. With some practice you can get REALLY good with pacing distance. It's one of the events in our forestry competitions. My best was being off 10 feet 3.25 inches on a 5-leg, 55 chain (3,630 feet) run through the woods. That's a 0.29% error over nearly 7/10 of a mile. Maintaining such counts in your head is easy until you deal with distractions. Hence, the beads. Never knew anyone who bought them back in the day, though. It's funny what becomes an industry. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 11:13:25 AM EDT
[#36]
I should also mention that since my cataract surgery, I need cheater glasses to read and see things clearly close-up. Some designs of compasses might lend themselves better than others to my application, especially in the event my cheater glasses are damaged or misplaced.
Hence trying out various types of compasses. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 3:58:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#37]
Cammenga Model 3H (Phosphorescent) compass finally received. Dated on inside of cover as "19 08 77", NSN 6605-01-196-6971. Came with lanyard and phosphorescent indicators very bright after illumination. Came with cheezy aftermarket 2" wide belt-mount nylon case which is not suitable for any Molle/Alice mounting.
Scales/numbers on the side of the compass case will have "paint" installed into the numerals/graduations with white "lacquer" stick for added visibility. Instructions downloaded from Cammenga. Now, on to testing how all these various types of compasses work out, and discovering which works best for me. |
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Posted: 11/6/2023 7:42:37 PM EDT
[#38]
It didn't come with this case?
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Posted: 11/7/2023 8:56:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bohr_Adam: It didn't come with this case? https://s.turbifycdn.com/aah/thecompassstore/cammenga-3h-us-military-tritium-compass-1.png |
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Posted: 11/9/2023 4:18:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seek2: Go with the MC-2. IMO the Cammenga is a heavy, outdated dinosaur. I have a few but never use them. My (limited) experience as well. The MC2 just checks all the boxes. |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:54:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Slightly OT... one of the shortcuts I learned navi-guessing by map & compass was to forget trying to figure out declination and do everything magnetic. No chance of a mathematical error putting you out into BFE somewhere. Orient map to magnetic north, and read bearings directly off the compass.
I've used both mil style lensatic and plate type compasses, I'm more comfortable with a lensatic, especially when taking bearings to a landmark. Whatever works... |
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