I recently did some tent camping for a training event. The bag I used was an Amazon special rated to 35 degrees. First night dropped to 21 degrees. Needless to say, I was up multiple times to restoke the fire and warm my bones. Second night I lucked out and was offered to use a spare surplus mil sleep system. I almost broke a sweat using the two inner bags without the bivy cover.

It was an eye opener on how ill prepared I was to handle the temperatures I was faced with.

I am leaning towards purchasing a mil sleep system, but am interested to see what others are using.

What I would like to have this thread be is an informational directory on sleeping bags, based on personal experiences.  

Pictures, pros/cons, price, and stories are welcome!

Wiggy’s

For the price you can’t beat the mil system.

As you learned sleeping bags have a temp range for a reason.  Tailor your choice to your climate and season.

Bivy sacks are great in my opinion and where I start.  Even if you’re in a tent there are condensation issues, leaks, wet floor, any number of things that will allow moisture to disrupt the function of your bag. It also gives a great area so keep extra clothing or dry out some items without worrying about them falling victim to moisture or the great morning tent mess

There are a lot of quality manufacturers out there if you want to spend the $$.

I used the military sleep system for well over 20 years, in the military and out. It’s a good system although a little heavy. I’ve used it down to -20 with heavy wind. It kept me alive. I’ve used the green patrol bag down to the upper teens but it wasn’t comfortable. I had all my long underwear on and covered up with every towel and jacket I had. I also had a sleeping bag liner that added a few degrees to the bag’s rating.

In cold weather, always eat something before you go to bed and keep something close to eat about half way through the night. You’ll sleep a lot warmer. Hot drinks are nice but food digests and makes heat. A hot drink and some food will really help you sleep better.

Sleeping bag ratings are survival ratings not comfort ratings. The fact you used a 35* bag to 21* is impressive! A 35* bag normally stops being comfortable at about 40-45*. How cold you can handle is personal. My wife needs extra insulation so that 35* bag for her is more like 55*. I could probably get a decent nights sleep down to 35*.

I have both the Wiggy’s FTRSS, the military sleep system and the newer Marine Corps system

Of the three the FTRSS is the heaviest and bulkiest, it also the warmest.

Down or synthetic?

That’s the primary question you need to ask yourself…

Down- Lighter, compacts better, but you need to be mindful of moisture management.

Synthetic- Heavier and bulkier, but moisture is less of a concern.

Are you hauling it around or truck camping?

Top of the line is western mountaineering for down bags.

On a budget?  A good condition MTSS is the way to go.  I wouldn't want to backpack the whole system, but I've been down to about mid 30's with the bivvy and patrol bag.  

Wiggys is great value, just not for backpacking.  I would stock a BOL with Wiggys and if I lived in colder climates, I would keep one in my truck.

Upper tier budget?  Dry down, hands down best performance for the weight and best compression.

If I can control the shelter aspect, I go with down when backpacking.  

While our coldest temps are usually 20-30 degrees in the winter, I would choose a bag rated at least 10 degrees lower in comfort.  

I like the FTRSS/MTSS concept as a system.  You don't want to hump a bulky 5 pound sleeping bag for weather with lows above 50 degrees, but when temps are in the teens, it's nice to be able to add a three layered system together and actually get a good night's sleep.

ROCK6

20* in a bag rated for 35* is cold as F!!  I feel your misery because I’ve been there.  

I try to always use a bag that’s rated for at least 20 deg less than actual temp outside.  

Thanks all for the replies so far!



What I'm looking for is for hiking around. Either attached to the bottom of a ruck, or stuffed inside one. Something I can grab and go.







I've heard the 20 deg above rating on my trip from another guy too, advice that I wish I had heard prior!

Life experiences make us who we are.  Learning occurred and you survived.  That's all that's important...and you probably won't make the same mistake again.  Sounds like winning to me.

If you’re ever going to carry the bag on your back, avoid the MSS. For car camping, pack mule, whatever, it is hard to beat for the price.

If you’ll be backpacking it, then a good down bag can’t be beat. Many will only be comfortable to about 10-15 degrees above their rating. The EN ratings are more accurate because they actually use a dummy with temp sensors inside the bag, but it still depends a lot on whether you’re a warm or cold sleeper. Western Mountaineering doesn’t use the EN system, but their bags are generally warm a little lower than their rating. My 45F WM EverLite is basically a blanket with a zipper on the long sides and drawstrings at the ends, with a light down jacket and hat or hood I’m toasty warm in the mid 30s without a tent. But 2 weeks ago I was very uncomfortable sometime after midnight with temps in the upper 20s, 20+mph winds, and the mountaintop I was on 100% clouded in. No tent, uninsulated air mattress, the moisture went right through everything I had on.

This, I have several US Mil bags and a Swiss? one. All new to excellent shape and different temps. The warmest is the extreme cold weather USGI bag, that damn thing will roast you unless it's well below zero.

I use the older MSS with the woodland bivy.  Works awesome, but it's definitely not a hiker's bag.

Without reading other responses, and coming from a backpacking perspective/background, I say check out quilts.  Start with the enlightened equipment enigma.  I have a couple and like them.  I don't use a traditional sleeping bag anymore.

The .mil sleep system is good for warmth, but a bit heavy and quite bulky by backpacking standards.  If you are car camping or know which parts you need, it's not bad.

For backpacking, there are better, albeit more expensive, options.

Unlike everyone here, I'm not a fan of Wiggys.   They have a good value  but they're heavy and bulky for what you get.  Not to mention his rants that he posts to his website.

Check out Mtn Hardwear (yes, spelled that way) or The North Face.  I have an REI down bag that's the bomb. Down, but was cheap at the time.  Not this model, but you see the prices...

-20 temp for less than $200

Hiking and camping is different than driving and camping.  Look at outdoor companies for the former,  and Wiggys or the MSS for the latter.

Awesome insight and recommendations. I ended up getting a MSS from a buddy.

I'll also be searching for one to take while hiking. Keep em coming!

Don’t discount a good pad.  Recently the way r value for them is listed was changed such that it’s comparable across brands.  A high r value pad can make a big difference as can wearing warm clothes inside the bag, warming a nalgene and putting it in the bag etc.

What’s your intended temp range, pack volume & desired max weight, and budget? You simply cannot go wrong with Western Mountaineering but they are expensive. Tier 2 bags can be pretty close in warmth & weight but cost 1/2-2/3 as much. My NEMO Sonic 0F bag runs about $500, weighs 3lb and has 1lb 9oz of 800 fill power hydrophobic duck down for an EN lower limit of -1F. I consider mine to be a 10-15F bag for comfort. 2 roughly equivalent WM bags will run from $635 to $710, but will be 8-16oz lighter and have a higher fill weight of 850 fill power goose down. Goose or duck, I don’t know if one is better than the other but to me goose down feels warmer.

Even tier 3 bags will work fine, I have a Sierra Designs 15F down bag (27F comfort rating that's accurate) that easily fits in my 50l pack’s sleeping bag compartment with the divider adjusted for the most room in the pack. I think I paid around $200 on closeout. 21oz 800 fill hydrophobic duck down, 40oz total weight for long size (6’6”).

Big fan of my EE quilt. Very comfortable down into the 30's with a 20 degree quilt.

obviously having the correct temp bag is important. too cold for your bag and you freeze, too hot and you sweat. thats why the system is cool

Truth.  A good insulated inflatable pad is small to pack and lets you stretch the rating of a sleeping bag and are an absolute requirement for a quilt.  Check out Klymit (lower price), Nemo (medium price) and Thermarest Xtherm (pricey but solid premium choice that is robust and dependable).  Shoot for an R-value minimum of 4 or more for 20 degrees and you can add a closed foam cell pad to boost the rating.  The R-values of multiple pads are additive.  Even the best down bag on the cold ground will leave you freezing and miserable.

Also - test your choices or friends' gear in the yard or balcony some cold evening.  You will be surprised what does and doesn't keep you warm enough, and you will learn the big difference between surviving and being comfortable.

Sunday 12/12/21, I ordered the patrol and the intermediate bags for replacement of my MSS bags. Received bags 12/15/21, w/ free shipping from Tennier Industries. Free fast shipping and for 159.00 for both seemed like a good deal to me! Great Vendor and welcomes the public for business!

IF you aren't going to be involving yourself with water, Nothing performs like a down bag. Buy a GOOD 10-20 degree down bag, they aren't cheap, then buy a cheap 30 degree bag for the summer or for layering in winter. A quality inflatable sleeping pad is a big part in not freezing in a fart sack, so get a good one.

You don't need to spend huge money on a sleeping bag and pad, but my experience is with the high end stuff. I'd spend the money again on a Feathered Friends down bag and the down insulated sleeping pad with built in pump. The bag is truly warm in 20 degree weather and is waterproof.

Buy cheap, buy twice I guess-but it pays to not get something as important as a sleeping bag on the cheap-it's your most important bit of kit.

Two weekends ago I slept in my hammock at 27 degrees and was toastier than I've ever been.

Hammock lined with a foam sleeping pad. 36 degree sleeping bag inside of another 36 degree bag. Had I had a quality underquilt, the second bag wouldn't have been necessary. Woke up with ice on my mosquito net. Probably should have had a tarp, but I wasn't expecting rain.

I called them up last week to see if they had any complete sleep systems. They had 1 at the moment and quoted me $272. I jumped all over it and had it 3 days later. It's exactly what I was looking for and they were super awesome to deal with.

This has be intrigued...But I am not an operator or rugged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZb1adZ_ZII&t=644s

Before I broke down and bought a better bag, I used this one for a few years.

It never let me down.

Browning Camping McKinley -30 Sleeping Bag https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034VR8OS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_GX7CCTN2JS09QJAGYZ8X?_encoding=UTF8&;psc=1

Also, what you have under your bag goes a long way to keeping you warm. A simple cot to keep you elevated does wonders. I also use the plain old military wool blankets under and on top of the bag.

I've stayed on the mountains of Colorado with snow in -15 degrees and had to strip off clothes with the browning bag.

Good luck.

If price does not matter then get this:

https://zpacks.com/products/10f-classic-sleeping-bag

10 Degree Bag
When the temperatures drop, stay warm and cozy with our award-winning Classic Sleeping Bag. Striking the perfect balance of warmth and weight, our ultralight Classic Sleeping Bag features a 3/4th length zipper on the bottom, combining the best aspects of a down quilt and a down sleeping bag, all at an unbeatable weight!
Weight:  23oz

No hood on a 10F bag? No thanks.

It really comes down to temp ratings, vs weight vs price.  Get what fits your needs and price range.

From a survival standpoint I really like my elite survival systems recon:

https://elitesurvival.com/collections/sleeping-bags

For hiking and camping use it's hard to go wrong with a down kelty.

I have some cheap wally world and amazon bags I use for warmer weather camping.  I have a couple childhood sleeping bags I use for various camp outs on my own property when temps aren't critical.

I just ordered a flannel lined slumberjack bag for use in our seasonal hunting camp/ canvas outfitters tent that we heat with a woodstove.  I want warmth but I also want roomy comfort and in this scenario weight and bulk doesn't matter because we haul in via cart, and out via sled.

In the end it really various in use.  Not one bag fits all and temp ratings do not equal comfort ratings!

Add 20 degrees to any temperature rating on any bag
Sold at Walmart!

My 30 year old AMERICAN made Coleman sleeping bag
is better than any current Chinese made Coleman sleeping bag…..yeah, the kid didn’t listen and learned!

Actually good luck finding anything American made by Coleman

If you sleep in a mummy bag, make sure you have a large knife inside with you. Just in case that cheap Chinese zipper breaks

If you are over 6 feet tall, get a tall size sleeping bag

One of those 4 hour hand warmers thown in the bottom
of your bag will keep the toes nice and toasty
If you wake up at 4am and they are cold, throw another in the bottom of the bag

A lot of great info posted here, no surprise.

+1 for hand warmers in the bottom of your bag if you find yourself cold and out of insulation to add
+1 for an insulated inflatable pad, and add ccf if needed and space allows.
MSS is tough to beat for warmth & cost, but it’s a perfect example of “pick two”: cost, warmth, size/weight. You just have to weigh that out for yourself.

\Best Backpacking Sleeping Bags of 2021

Good point.  I forgot all about recommending a sleeping pad.  Even a rolled up foam one works well vs nothing.

4 main factors
1 - price
2 - warmth
3 - bulk/weight
4 - moisture resistance

As mentioned, #2 is a personal thing. Some folks sleep hot, some sleep cold. Figuring out your own needs helps better tailor your choice (eg. As someone mentioned, they might be able to get a decent night's sleep at a bag's rated temp (eg. 35f in a 35f bag), whilst for most folks, that rating is simply 'won't freeze to death, but not gonna be comfortable' and they usually find that a bag rated ~15f lower than ambient is ideal for comfort (and if it's warmer, leave the bag unzipped).

For hiking/backpacking as opposed to car camping/BOL, #3 is important and where there a re far better options than the Mil system. While the flexibility of a multilayer system allows you to taikor it to the ambient temps, that flexibility comes at the cost of added weight/bulk.

As mentioned, nothing available beats down for maximum warmth and compressibility/packability at the lightest weight. I haven't used a DriDown bag but reviews are pretty good.

If wet weather is a concern (or extended trips) synthetic might be a better option (at the cost of increased weight and less compressibility). The human body releases a heckuva lot of moisture, and even in below freezing temps, a closed tent can get pretty damned humid inside.

As for price, the best down bags are also going to be the highest priced. That light weight and highest compressibility comes at the cost of... well, cost.

P.S.
Cold weather camper's trick. Empty bladder and eat a Snickers bar or big tablespoon of peanut butter right before bed. The sugar and calories give your body fuel to burn to stay warm longer while sleeping (everyone cools down as their metabolism slows while asleep).

An insulated/high R-value pad makes a HUGE difference in cold weather. You lose heat more easily to the ground, than the air.

I can wholeheartedly recommend the Thermarest NeoAir Xtherm. I have over 140 nights on one. Best insulation (and comfort) for packability, and it can be used for all 4 seasons.

For doubling up (especially on rocky/pokey ground) the Thermarest Z-Lite SOL is great. Closed cell foam, so zero concern about punctures. The folding part makes it easy to strap to the bottom of the pack. Works as an insulated seat, too.

I use the Wiggy's system (the larger one) when bulk and weight are not an issue, and Big Agnes for backpacking.

The Big Agnes integration of a sleeping pad is ingenuous, in my opinion, in that it eliminates unnecessary bulk while making it just about impossible to slide off your sleeping mat.

You generally want a bag rated at least 20 degrees better than the temperatures you expect.

Yeah sleeping bags have different rating systems from "You won't die" to "You'll be nice and toasty".
A good rule of thumb is a thicker heavier bag will do a better job than a thin one, I usually go bag inside a bag when cold and don't forget a nice flannel sheet or liner. It makes a world of difference when getting in and is easier to wash than the whole bag.

Came here to post that

Butler bags may work for some of you, but not for the hiker.

I don't sleep on the ground anymore, but when I did this was the ultimate. Attached File


EDIT: I can't figure out how to post a link.  Try Butler Bags USA

Thank you.

I think I just found my new cot/car camping bag.

I like my Wiggy’s most of the time but it is on the bulky side.

Here is an interesting test of the Wiggy’s.

Natalie and Tara test Wiggy’s

It's barely below freezing. Drama queens, there.

I'm sure there are plenty of manufacturer's 20 degree bags that wouldn't perform well, but that's not really a good test of a serious sleeping bag.

Good quality DOWN is the best for insulation vs weight.

There are scant "official" gradings for Down, so beware of mfr claims.  All of them are mostly subjective BS, and made to make their particular product look good.

I have an "Eddie Bauer" down coat bought in 1970.  With a windproof/waterproof overgarment, one of the most effective insulating garments I own, to this day.

Even so, not at all optimal construction, since the EB coat had "sewn-through" pockets for the down.  Absolutely was NOT waterproof in the slightest, nor windproof.  A purely ARCTIC Garment, as long as suitable outer windproof/waterproof garments were worn, as needed.

Back then, EB claimed "Prime Canadian Goose Down"  which of course, was the "best" obtainable at the time.  Who knows where the down actually came from, or its' actual insulating value?  There are still scant "recognized" values for down, to this day.

I stumbled upon a Down-filled LL Bean Baxter State Parka (no longer offered in same configuration) in a local thrift store.  Since it fit me, I paid the (stupid cheap) $20 for it.  Original cost (back then) was well over $300, IIRC.  IMHO, being down-filled, covered with a stout Gore-tex outer shell, and properly constructed, was vastly better than the EB garment.  No comparison, the LL Bean garment, having a Gore-tex over-liner (wind-breaker and water-resistant) was heavier and bulkier than the EB garment, but the LLB garment eliminated many of the problems encountered with the EB garment.

Donning that LLB coat is like putting on an electric blanket, set on "High".

FWIW, the LLB garment was lacking the zip-in fur-ruffed hood.   Sent LLB an e-mail, and after exchanging some info, they sent me, for free, a perfectly matching hood for my jacket.  I was very lucky.

If I had to choose between Down and Syn fibers, my choice-point would depend on both temps and likelihood of liquid water.

In Cold/Dry Arctic temps, without liquid water, Down reigns supreme.  OTOH, if one is encountering even the prospect of liquid water, then perhaps syn fibers might be preferable.

Drying out Down which has been soaked is almost impossible in the field.  Drying-out syn fibers is much easier.

While I mostly discussed coats above, much of my experiences with coats mirrors my experiences with sleeping bags, except that the insulation one puts UNDER the sleeping bag makes a HUGE difference.  HUGE.

As always, user call.  

Regret being "wordy" but it seemed required.

Posted in General Outdoor Discussions for a member and thought you may want it in this thread as well.

Put a sleeping bag in it as well as what is listed here and use it for as cold as it gets, shed layers for warmer temps, or use the tarp as a lean-to for sun shade or shelter.  If you hose down a new canvas tarp and let it dry, it helps in waterproofing.  You can also spray Scotchguard on the tarp.  If I remember right, 20 oz. duck canvas is the ticket.  You can hike with it as long as you bring a pack horse to carry it.

Attached File

Figured I would chime in too.

The MSS is idiot proof....but heavy.

I ended up settling on a down Kelty bag for most of my casual camping. Down to the teens it's fine, and would probably work to zero but might be chilly without a liner or another bag paired with it.

Much lighter and stuffs up much smaller than the MSS, but more fragile and sensitive to moisture, so pick which pros and cons you want to deal with I guess.