User Panel
Posted: 11/18/2018 5:14:30 PM EDT
You have plenty of preps for you and your small family.
You live in a semi rural area. Nearest house is 500 ft away. Most of your neighbors have moved away in haste. You have a large yard, fenced. Area is semi wooded. Someone knocks on your door begging for food. What do you do? |
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[#2]
Quoted:
Someone knocks on your door begging for food. What do you do? View Quote |
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[#4]
I will probably shoot first.
They have climbed over a locked gate or broken in gone past posted no trespassing signs and most likely killed my dogs to have gotten that far. I will also assume they are the distraction for a much larger Force and react accordingly. |
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[#5]
In this hypothetical shtf fantasy, does the homestead already have a housegirl? If not, is the doorknocker hot?
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[#6]
If you have that much space/big of yard and someone makes it to your front door to knock without you/your party spotting them as soon as they made it into your lanes you already screwed up.
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[#7]
"I heard on the radio that there is a shelter set up in (insert name of town at least 20 miles away) and they have food, water and shelter. I'm out of food also but I'm leaving for there as soon as my son arrives back home"
It's a lot like the POS co worker that is always trying to borrow money from you. You just KNOW when you see them they are going to hit you up for $20. So the minute you see them you ask THEM to borrow a few dollars... Hand painted sign by the gate "will trade firewood for food" next to a measely looking pile of firewood. Deter as much as possible as first effort. Can't cap everyone you see.... You can do a helluva lot with a good printer, including those official flyers talking about that shelter setup, that you leave out in strategic places. |
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[#8]
Quoted:
"I heard on the radio that there is a shelter set up in (insert name of town at least 20 miles away) and they have food, water and shelter. I'm out of food also but I'm leaving for there as soon as my son arrives back home" It's a lot like the POS co worker that is always trying to borrow money from you. You just KNOW when you see them they are going to hit you up for $20. So the minute you see them you ask THEM to borrow a few dollars... Hand painted sign by the gate "will trade firewood for food" next to a measely looking pile of firewood. Deter as much as possible as first effort. Can't cap everyone you see.... You can do a helluva lot with a good printer, including those official flyers talking about that shelter setup, that you leave out in strategic places. View Quote WTF? |
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[#9]
Never answer. If i'm not holding a gun I go get one, make ready, and start aiming.
Clear area once begging has stopped. If begging has evolved, handle appropriately. |
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[#10]
Quoted:
You have plenty of preps for you and your small family. You live in a semi rural area. Nearest house is 500 ft away. Most of your neighbors have moved away in haste. You have a large yard, fenced. Area is semi wooded. Someone knocks on your door begging for food. View Quote You drew a defensive 'line in the sand' with the installation of the fence in the first place. The begging could be a ruse. He or she might have friends hiding just beyond the fence line in that 'semi-wooded area' watching to see what response, if any, the 'beggar' receives. Extreme caution is advised. |
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[#11]
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[#13]
Quoted: So, we're positing a mostly abandoned rural area/neighborhood, ... and a total stranger breaches your fence and bangs on the door appearing to be a beggar for food? You drew a defensive 'line in the sand' with the installation of the fence in the first place. The begging could be a ruse. He or she might have friends hiding just beyond the fence line in that 'semi-wooded area' watching to see what response, if any, the 'beggar' receives. Extreme caution is advised. View Quote It's always come down to distance as part of your defense for numerous reasons, some more obvious than others. Physical barriers i.e, the fence, locked gate, etc. as well as everything being posted. There is ALWAYS the possibility that "law and order" will return at some point. You could very well be having to justify your actions to a court. It's not the BS fantasy of shooting them and hanging them off telephone poles with "looters must die" signs on them. What sounds better in court if that did play out- "he walked right up to my house and I shot him in the face" or "Your honor he ignored the no trespassing signs everywhere, he cut the barbed wire, he climbed over my outer fence, he hurt one of my dogs, climbed over my other fence and then approached my house with a weapon." What if you found out later it's one of the kids of a clan just a few miles away? Congrats you just started a mini war. I submit that this is a fine line and needs some creative out of the box thinking, far past the rambo shoot all comers answer. |
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[#14]
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[#15]
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[#16]
I would feed them if I could. I have a duty according to my faith to help others if I can. If I couldn't, I would help them in other ways if possible. Don't assume that doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I needed to. I have extra food preps just for this.
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[#17]
Quoted:
I would feed them if I could. I have a duty according to my faith to help others if I can. If I couldn't, I would help them in other ways if possible. Don't assume that doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I needed to. I have extra food preps just for this. View Quote |
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[#18]
Fire for effect. More seriously, would think they were up to no good because I'm gated off and no one should be up there.
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[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would feed them if I could. I have a duty according to my faith to help others if I can. If I couldn't, I would help them in other ways if possible. Don't assume that doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I needed to. I have extra food preps just for this. |
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[#20]
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[#21]
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[#22]
A dog to let you know there is someone out there would be the first thing you should change. No one should knock on your door without you knowing.
Before someone says they don't want to deal with a dog, go buy some solar panels and batteries to run a simple security system and/or driveway alerts with noises then. Get news of where they came from, what things are like. Point em on their way in a different direction. Expect them to tell everyone you fed and sheltered em and cared for the blisters on their feet and shoo gooed their boots back together even. To some extent a basic printout of edible plants often found in the ditches along the road might be really useful. Some rain water captured and available to them to refill their water bottles sounds alright, if no rain then if you have a pond or stream nearby it might be better to have em refill where you want em to refill rather than they try to think something up and do it themselves. Honestly, after 30 days I don't expect to see anyone walking that can't fend for themselves pretty dang well. So maybe asking to barter for some food would make more sense. Have em split some wood or haul some water and they can have some leftover stew. But yeah, its a tarp comes to mind. IF they survived in their basement for 30 days I don't see why they left now. All the cheetos and mountain dews are probably gone. |
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[#23]
Quoted: sure it is. These type of fantasy questions are asked all the time and never get locked. looks like the line in the sand is about the same as GD, non tech fantasy is GTG and you're not in charge View Quote I am also not in charge. Don't wanna be. But we try to get people to self police instead of hollering at a mod to step in and tell folks the tech sections tend to run stricter than general discussion. |
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[#24]
At the 30 day mark, most folks will have adjusted to the "new normal". Basically, it would be much like the Great Depression although it would depend somewhat on the trigger and how quickly things deteriorated. In the case of a sudden financial system collapse, everything would come to a screeching halt within roughly 3 days because today's world runs on credit exchanges. If they are locked up, the economy as a whole locks up, suppliers stop supplying, retailers stop retailing, truckers stop trucking, and consumers are left with nothing.
By day 30 after a sudden collapse, either a barter economy would have sprung up, or companies would have figured out a method to bypass the banks and credit exchanges. If, on the other hand, it was "just" a sharp economic downturn that manifested itself in the loss of a lot of money and jobs but the basic economic and business/supply chain infrastructure were still intact, then you'd see Great Depression mass migrations to where people think the work is. Multiple families would live together to get by. The EBT system would likely be shut down because the number of people trying to get on the rolls would overwhelm the system almost immediately. Gardening, canning, and self-help groups would become in vogue again. Most likely, the .gov would start up another equivalent of the CCC and you'd see infrastructure actually getting fixed instead of seeing money earmarked for infrastructure being given to cronies with political connections. Most likely, by the 30 day mark, the people who haven't figured out how to survive in the new reality probably are not looking to. They plan to either con honest people into supporting them, or they plan to take by force what doesn't belong to them. The people to worry about are the ones who think they're "entitled" to what you have simply because you have it and they do not. I'm a charitable guy by nature. If my immediate neighbors were struggling, I'd do what I could without endangering my ability to take care of my own family. Some random person I don't know? I'll point them in the direction of some of the local churches and tell them I'll pray for them as well as us all. If I lived in a semi-rural area and somebody obviously managed to tresspass far enough to get to my front door? They'll be having a conversation first with my dog, then with me and my rifle. |
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[#25]
Quoted:
You have plenty of preps for you and your small family. You live in a semi rural area. Nearest house is 500 ft away. Most of your neighbors have moved away in haste. You have a large yard, fenced. Area is semi wooded. Someone knocks on your door begging for food. What do you do? View Quote |
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[#26]
Quoted:
This. I don't have any desire to kill people, however that sympathy should never be mistaken for weakness. Bringing people together is a far better plan then going at it lone wolf. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would feed them if I could. I have a duty according to my faith to help others if I can. If I couldn't, I would help them in other ways if possible. Don't assume that doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I needed to. I have extra food preps just for this. |
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[#27]
Quoted:
You have plenty of preps for you and your small family. You live in a semi rural area. Nearest house is 500 ft away. Most of your neighbors have moved away in haste. You have a large yard, fenced. Area is semi wooded. Someone knocks on your door begging for food. What do you do? View Quote |
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[#28]
Some thoughts on charity in a bad situation-
I wonder how many people that say they will help others in a bad situation are actually helping others NOW? Don't get butthurt and freak out, just think about it. We worked with a homeless mission for several years, I enjoyed the hell out of it. We made and served food, distributed clothes, all that normal stuff. We purchased a ton of sleeping bags for most of these same folks as well. We got the "feel" of hundreds of homeless. Some were truly homeless, some were clearly cheap asses that showed up for a free meal and some new clothes. A small percent, literally less than 20% were genuinely thankful. About 30% were what I would consider hostile, the other 50% couldn't give a damn. It was nothing for some to demand more food than others, 2 more jackets, etc. This is human nature folks, we are a fallen creature and despite all the secular humanist liberal drivel that man is inherently good, the truth is completely opposite that and that's proven out daily. That last point is what I think a lot of these well meaning folks that "plan" to give charity in the PAW don't truly understand. And once the door is cracked open (giving a little bit) a bit on this sort of thing, the flood gates are open. So, charity at your front door- terrible idea. Always has been, always will be. No OPSEC, security very tough when you truly look at it past the "I got a gun I haven't trained with in 10 years" Rambo fantasies. How COULD you do this safely? I covered some out of the box ideas about this on my radio show back in the 90's. These include just simple things like leaving some food behind the nearest church in the middle of the night (you really don't want it traced back to you if your really concerned for security). Then the discussion goes like this- "Hey man can you help me out with some food" "I got nothing, I'll tell you where I go though, I've been going to Pine Hill Church, I've been getting food from there, they are good people, armed to the teeth but good people. Don't try to pull anything there, but they will help you, they helped me." Again, bringing the subject back to 1. Them going somewhere else. 2. You ain't got nothing for them. 3. Your still "helping" them versus a flat out refusal which just becomes a justification to "we will get that $ucker back." If your not woke up to the fact that's how people think, then all the more reason not to try to be the post apoc salvation army.... |
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[#29]
I work with the homeless now and have even taken in a few over the years and even have a young couple living in a tent on my place now that are getting back on there feet.
I would say less than 5% will be Good people showing up if SHTF. Most charity situations will be traps that if you fall for them will cost you everything including your lives. Today we err on the side of Jesus as its just money if there lying but even then they only get one chance as theirs a line of people needing help. Fool me once works when its not life or death. We really need to work out coms with my neighbors so if someone needs help there not beating on the door in the night. 5 miles not line of site mountains... CB radio? I'm glad my BOL is so remote that there will not be refugees in the AO. One of my fears is that I will be spending the first year in a fop watching over the family. ETA If you think your faith is going to call you to help get out there now and learn the ropes. |
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[#32]
Quoted:
I work with the homeless now and have even taken in a few over the years and even have a young couple living in a tent on my place now that are getting back on there feet. I would say less than 5% will be Good people showing up if SHTF. Most charity situations will be traps that if you fall for them will cost you everything including your lives. Today we err on the side of Jesus as its just money if there lying but even then they only get one chance as theirs a line of people needing help. Fool me once works when its not life or death. We really need to work out coms with my neighbors so if someone needs help there not beating on the door in the night. 5 miles not line of site mountains... CB radio? I'm glad my BOL is so remote that there will not be refugees in the AO. One of my fears is that I will be spending the first year in a fop watching over the family. ETA If you think your faith is going to call you to help get out there now and learn the ropes. View Quote |
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[#33]
Some well thought out responses, some juvenile responses. I can only hope they are joking.
If you unjustifiably kill, the extent that people will go to seek revenge will surprise you. 30 days in and you kill someone for knocking? If it was a messenger sent to tell you about a meeting, impending danger, a distant friend, etc. You kill someone's kid? You will be hanging from a tree, burned out in the night, or shot in the yard. |
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[#34]
Quoted:
30 days in and you kill someone for knocking? If it was a messenger sent to tell you about a meeting, impending danger, a distant friend, etc. You kill someone's kid? You will be hanging from a tree, burned out in the night, or shot in the yard. View Quote 30 days in a shtf there would only be lucky people alive or bad ones, not some awe shucks kid walking from house to house or a messenger from far away |
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[#35]
Quoted:
I will probably shoot first. They have climbed over a locked gate or broken in gone past posted no trespassing signs and most likely killed my dogs to have gotten that far. I will also assume they are the distraction for a much larger Force and react accordingly. View Quote I'd see what it is and what they want by yelling out "what do you want?" Then reply accordingly to the answer. Forgive me that I don't wanna shoot someone in the face that is doing there job. |
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[#36]
Quoted:
Some well thought out responses, some juvenile responses. I can only hope they are joking. If you unjustifiably kill, the extent that people will go to seek revenge will surprise you. 30 days in and you kill someone for knocking? If it was a messenger sent to tell you about a meeting, impending danger, a distant friend, etc. You kill someone's kid? You will be hanging from a tree, burned out in the night, or shot in the yard. View Quote From these responses we couldn't even organize a town meeting to discuss security provisions or how to deal with refugees asking for handouts because half the messengers would be shot and eaten. This is coming from self identified survivalists too. These are people that are preparing for this eventuality, aren't yet desperate, and are in the best position to start picking up the pieces of civilization and putting them back together. |
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[#37]
Reference Chapter 28 of Trump's "Art of the Deal MMXVIII"...Work for food.
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[#38]
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[#39]
Quoted:
It's sad. From these responses we couldn't even organize a town meeting to discuss security provisions or how to deal with refugees asking for handouts because half the messengers would be shot and eaten. This is coming from self identified survivalists too. These are people that are preparing for this eventuality, aren't yet desperate, and are in the best position to start picking up the pieces of civilization and putting them back together. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Some well thought out responses, some juvenile responses. I can only hope they are joking. If you unjustifiably kill, the extent that people will go to seek revenge will surprise you. 30 days in and you kill someone for knocking? If it was a messenger sent to tell you about a meeting, impending danger, a distant friend, etc. You kill someone's kid? You will be hanging from a tree, burned out in the night, or shot in the yard. From these responses we couldn't even organize a town meeting to discuss security provisions or how to deal with refugees asking for handouts because half the messengers would be shot and eaten. This is coming from self identified survivalists too. These are people that are preparing for this eventuality, aren't yet desperate, and are in the best position to start picking up the pieces of civilization and putting them back together. |
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[#41]
War gaming helps prepare you for stuff you don't have experience with and come up with reasonable responses.
JRH put out some good responses to a beggar. Good to put in the memory bank. If we can't get the skill level 0 stuff right, we won't get the harder stuff right. |
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[#42]
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[#43]
Quoted:
So you'd shoot a cop or firefighter doing a well being check or public notice? . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
So you'd shoot a cop or firefighter doing a well being check or public notice? . Someone knocks on your door begging for food. now what ya going to do? Say yes sir, please have some more. Im sure not |
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[#44]
Hasn't been mentioned yet but if you have Comms with your neighbors via CB radio, your radio may have a PA (Public Addres) 1/8" jack in the back of the CB unit.
Connect this to a loudspeaker and you have the ability to give ample warning to them once they have climbed over the fence. Having an intercom type system at your gate may be a good idea. You could simply keep a cheapo FRS radio with NIMH rechargeable batteries in a weatherproof box at the gate on a tether, and then have your police scanner (you do have a scanner, don't you) programmed with that frequency. Or the other FRS radio as well, but that requires another set of batteries to be used. Could be beneficial if the UPS guy would use it. If you have "unlocked" your HAM radio transceiver, you can transmit out of band and talk on FRS. On the weatherproof box, have a hailing/callout phrase for people to transmit so it stands out from other traffic. So it seems am I the only one who doesnt have federal prison quality fences around my property. I do have a steep hill with narrow road leading up to the hill (9 feet or so wide ) with steep drop offs with ravines on each side. Would be pretty easy to control access. I need to get busy chiseling out some "Indiana Jones style" big stone balls to roll down the hill. Or boiling vats of tar would work I guess. Need to recruit some serfs though.... |
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[#45]
I haven't seen very many people with any "real" fence that goes around their whole property. Perhaps a driveway gate in some rural areas, but access denial? Nope.
Most work off the premise that there's no power, so the CB PA may be out. I really would just use any power for a driveway chime style detection. It works while you sleep or are not in your spot. If you get a unit that can take multiple sensors, you can set up a perimeter. Depending on driveway length and sensor position, you may have a little warning if people are walking. Otherwise, they can be place in out buildings and sheds to let you know if someone is creeping. Guys in the Midwest may see 300 yards to the end of the driveway, where 90% here are less than 100 feet. People have fantasies of fences and gates. Look out your window, you aren't stopping the Avon lady right now, are you? There was a guy here who had a pallet of concertina for sale for a year. Not sure if it ever went. That's an indicator of reality. |
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[#46]
Quoted:
did you read the OP or are you so emotionally involved in this fantasy you're just making up stuff? how about the police knock on your door demanding you surrender all food now what ya going to do? Say yes sir, please have some more. Im sure not View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
So you'd shoot a cop or firefighter doing a well being check or public notice? . Someone knocks on your door begging for food. now what ya going to do? Say yes sir, please have some more. Im sure not |
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[#47]
Quoted:
I haven't seen very many people with any "real" fence that goes around their whole property. Perhaps a driveway gate in some rural areas, but access denial? Nope. Most work off the premise that there's no power, so the CB PA may be out. I really would just use any power for a driveway chime style detection. It works while you sleep or are not in your spot. If you get a unit that can take multiple sensors, you can set up a perimeter. Depending on driveway length and sensor position, you may have a little warning if people are walking. Otherwise, they can be place in out buildings and sheds to let you know if someone is creeping. Guys in the Midwest may see 300 yards to the end of the driveway, where 90% here are less than 100 feet. People have fantasies of fences and gates. Look out your window, you aren't stopping the Avon lady right now, are you? There was a guy here who had a pallet of concertina for sale for a year. Not sure if it ever went. That's an indicator of reality. View Quote |
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[#48]
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[#49]
Quoted:
Next time I'm dispatch to go knock on a door to check on someone because some out of the area residents hasn't heard from them I'll be sure to think that I'm just "making this up". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Someone here is sure making stupid shit up. I understand the concern about people impersonating police officers, but if you see a marked squad car and uniformed officer, its a safe bet s/he's legit. 99% of the time. If you are really worried, get a battery operated intercom system to install by the front door, or do the FRS suggestion I proposed. If you foolishly think that the King doesn't have the power to come into your home with a stroke of a judge's pen, then you're sadly mistaken. I do realize that this is a SHTF scenario, but martial law has been declared before during national/regional/local emergency. Look at the shitshow of gun confications during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Emergency management departments are in place for a wide variety of situations, and they will take actions needed to preserve order. And don't think that for a minute that your neighbors won't turn you in to get a "jump to the front of the line" pass in the bread line, or curry favor from a local gang. Hell, look at how many people are enamored with The Walking Dead. Guarantee you that some people will try to be Negan, some outright, some subversively. Trust but verify. So if you are a fan of blasting on your property with full mag dumps, remember that sound carries, and if a mag ban/semi auto ban comes to your state, you will have made yourself a marked man by your neighbors. Do the mag dumps at a public or indoor range/big get together of shooters. |
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