I'm looking for opinions on these. I've always liked the idea of smokeless powder in a muzzleloader and have the opportunity to pick one of these up for a friend for what seems like a reasonable price. On the low end of what they go for on Gunbroker. Although still 2x what it cost before they stopped producing them. I love muzzleloader hunting as the season is the prime time of year to be in the woods. It often coincides with the rut. However, I absolutely dread shooting my current muzzleloader. I'm currently shooting a T/C Triumph with BH209. Even with BH209, it seems to want to rust very quickly after shooting it. For example, I shot it yesterday and it took me 4 hours to get it clean. I know I'll go through this again if I shoot it next week as well. It's a nightmare to keep rust free, seems to rust anyway and also has some pitting where I let a friend borrow it and he didn't clean it for a few days, etc. This is where smokeless powder seems like a huge benefit. I can shoot it for the season and then just clean it once at the end of the season without worrying about rust. It just seemed like a perfect choice and I was pretty set on it.

Then I started reading reports of these guns blowing up and people getting hurt. It seems like a lot of people chalk it up to them being idiots and double charging it, etc. although there is never any proof of this. There seem to be many different reports of this happening across the internet. It scares me enough that I'm wondering if I'd ever really trust shooting it if I did get it. I had a Beretta 92F years ago, and I could never get over all of the reports online of the slide blowing off of the back. I ended up selling it as I just never wanted to shoot it due to that.

So I'm wondering what your experience with these is? Is it worth it? Is it worth taking the plunge? Or is it not enough of an improvement over a traditional muzzleloader that it's worth taking the risk?

Don't own one and have never shot one.  That being said, I know a guy who is really big into muzzleloaders.  Picture a benchrest guy working up loads for his muzzleloader..... Every bullet, every powder, every primer, every sabot, until he finds the perfect combo.

He LOVES his Savage 10MLs.  He stopped hunting with everything else years ago when he got his first.

I've been using one for 10-12 years now with no problems. Absolutely love it. It's nice not to have to worry about the tedious cleaning that comes with muzzleloader hunting. I'm sure the majority of problems have been from people overcharging or using the wrong types of powder. Ive kept it simple and used one of the recommended loads from the owners manual. It's not the fastest load but it flat out knocks deer down. Accurate 5744 under 250 or 300gr XTP and MMP black sabot.

Like Bad Bow tie, I’ve owned and hunted with one every year for the last 10 years.

I absolutely love mine.  I’ve had more bang flop dead deer kills with it than any other rifle I own.  Plus no cloud of smoke blocking your vision, and you don’t have to worry about it rusting up before you get your deer out of the woods.  It’s very much a modern rifle you just load from the front end.

The only people who’ve ever had trouble with their gun blowing up were the ones who disregarded the manufacturer’s recommended loads.  As mentioned above, 41 grains of AA5574 under a 250 gr Hornady XTM in a black MMP Sabot can be shot for several lifetimes and never give a problem.

I wouldn’t walk, but run to take him the money.  Savage quit making them twice, not because of any fault of the gun itself, but it had three things working against it.  It was on the high price side of muzzleloaders, and people just couldn’t understand what a huge technological advance it was over regular in-lines.  Some of those who did spend the money thought they could hot rod it and double up powder loads like they got away with doing in their black powder gun only to realize smokeless is not near as forgiving.  Finally, the ATF never liked it and it’s my understanding gave Savage grief about it.  I’ve read where the original design had you placing the primer in the chamber, directly underneath the powder load, but the ATF demanded they change the design and that’s when Savage changed it to riding on top of the bolt head.  ATF just couldn’t get past the smokeless powder capability in a non-regulated muzzleloader.

I have the original MLI. It uses a steel module that holds a 209 primer.
The action and bolt are identical to a CF rifle, thats why the redesign.

The 5744 / 250gr XTP is an awesome combo in these. I’ve had one for years, my only complaint is that it’s on the heavier side.  It’s my go-to if I’m hunting some place I don’t have to hike a long ways.

There’s plenty of speculation on why they quit making them but a Savage rep told me they had 150+ lawsuits from rifles blowing up and that they would never be made again. Supposedly if you send one in for any work they’ll just cut it up, tell you it wasn’t repairable and mail you a voucher for some $ off a new Savage firearm.  The kabooms seem limited to stainless models, I’ve never seen a picture of a failed blued model. Experts have testified that the sulfur content of the alloy was too high causing it to be brittle.

@slowr1der

Did you buy it?  Another thing I’d add is if it has the earlier slotted style breech plug upgrade to the the late hex style. There are NOS ones floating around for sale. That way you can remove the breech plug without pulling the bolt which requires removing an action screw.

I didn't end up buying it. Although he still has it for sale a couple of months later, so it seems like there may not be that much interest in it. I made him an offer, but his lowest price was about $25 higher than the max I'd told myself I was willing to pay and I decided I wanted to stick with my max I'd set myself. So I made an offer of my max price and told him if he changes his mind to let me know.

I'm not sure what style breech plug it uses. I didn't realize there were two. I'm assuming it's the earlier style, as the gun seems to be an earlier gun. I also noticed that it doesn't have the accu-trigger, which would indicate to me that it's an earlier version of this muzzleloader. This was also a huge con for me. I'm a big fan of the accu-trigger, so not having that while it is available on these guns really decreased my interest in this particular one. The price is the only thing that was really drawing me to this particular one.

I'm also still a bit weary about the blowing up issue, although it seems like there are a lot of people using these things without any problems.

My other thought is that the price is a pretty significant investment for a gun that I use about 2 days a year. Then I'll need to add on another few hundred dollars for a decent scope, rings, etc. So I'm just not sure that it makes sense financially when my current muzzle loader works pretty well. I just hate the hassle of cleaning it.

Not the savage muzzleloader but I have a couple friends of mine that shoot pistol powder out of t/c muzzleloaders. I dont know the load or the grains but I know they are using pistol powder.

I hadn't heard the second part about them destroying any that are sent in. The first part is along the lines of what I keep hearing, and it makes me really uneasy about these things. I know there are a lot of people that haven't had issues, and I'm not convinced the people that have had issues aren't at fault themselves, but I'm not just 100% sure that I really want to take that chance. The idea of not dealing with the hassle of cleaning my current muzzleloader each time I shoot it seems very attractive. However, not attractive enough that I want to risk a gun blowing up in my hands and face.

On another hand, I've been a big Savage fan for a long time. Everything I've had from them has been exceptional. So I wouldn't mind adding one of these to my collection. The thought of doing that, then just continue using my current muzzleloader to hunt with has crossed my mind. If I do that though, I think I'd rather just pony up the extra for a NIB or close to NIB one when they pop up. Rather than a used one that's been hunted with and shows scratches, bluing wear, etc.

It's funny you say that, because I have a friend that was just telling me about how he uses pistol powder in his. I'm a bit skeptical as he isn't the most knowledgeable about stuff like this. He claims he got the load from the gun shop where he got his gun. I was really questioning this since he's the only one I've ever heard mention this.

10 years + on mine, 44gr 5744 and 250 XTP mags. Deadly on deer. Found out the hard way not to use the "easy slide" sabots.

I have a blued and a stainless.  I like them and only use the recommended loads.

If it didn’t have accutrigger it likely has the early slotted breech plug. My SN is in the 40k range and had accutrigger but the earlier breech plug.

ML2’s blowing up is a real thing but as I posted before it seemed to only happen on the stainless models. The issue was overblown IMO because one of Savages pro staff guys was posting about using unapproved powders (namely LIL-GUN) and duplex loads (using mixes of powders). Savage fired him and wouldn’t you know his rifle blew up the same week and he posted about it all over.

That's what I'm thinking too. It's got to be an early version of the ML-2 by not having an Accutrigger. I much prefer stainless in muzzleloaders, but all of the ones I've seen blown up have been stainless, so it's got me thinking maybe blued is the way to go.

I can't get this gun out of my mind. Compared to GunBroker prices, his price really does seem fair. Like I said above, he's a little above the max I told myself I'd pay, but not really far off. Since he still has it, I'm really tempted to just go get it. I'd much much prefer to have the accu trigger, but I'm not sure if a $200 premium that they seem to bring on Gunbroker is worth paying for the trigger. Then again it may be for the trigger and upgraded breech plug. Do you all think it's worth an extra $200 or so to get one of the newer models?

I've been thinking about it for almost 2 months. I never expected him to have it this long, and I keep coming back to look at the pictures he's sent me.


Does anyone know if the Rifle Basix triggers work in these? I have an extra Rifle Basix that I bought cheap for a project non accutrigger 110, but ended up never building the gun. So my thought is if it'll work I could toss it in there.

What’s the specs on the ML-2 this guys selling? (Blued / stainless? Laminate / synthetic stock? Ect) and what’s he asking for it?

Blued with a black synthetic stock. It does have some scratches from hunting, but I'd plan to hunt with it, so that's not a huge deal. He wants $600.

That’s a pretty good price IMO, I’d probably jump on that if I were you.

When they first discontinued the model prices went nuts because they were still popular for sub caliber smokeless conversions (mainly 40 and 45 caliber).  It wasn’t uncommon to see rifles bringing $1k and up.  Prices got so nuts lots of guys just started buying Savage target actions for their builds but the release of the Remington Ultimate shifted max performance smokeless builds to the model 700 since all you really needed was a smokeless rated barrel. As the demand for Savage donor actions has gone down the price has held pretty high just due to scarcity.

Other than the tip I gave before about getting the late hex style breech, I’d just add that the ML2 synthetic stocks usually fit horrible. My camo model rides the barrel on one side with a 1/8” gap on the other. If it drives you nuts Boyd’s sells stocks specifically for the 10ML.