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Link Posted: 5/11/2022 3:25:18 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Don't do it.  You will lose 3/4 of your seed, most likely, unless you are prepared to drain the aquafer dry and even then you will still lose half.

Your seed will keep just fine.

Know your date of first fall frost.  Back that up two months.  That's when you seed.  

you must ABSOLUTELY keep your seed dry.  If you let it get damp, you will lose it.

Keep the seed DRY.


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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By bluemax_1:
So, everything I've read online indicates that Fall is preferable for overseeding.

What are the realistic limitations/expectations for overseeding now in MI (zone 5 or 6?)?

Daytime temps just hit the 80s for the first time this year, and are supposed to be highs in the 80s until Saturday, then dropping back to highs in the 70s and possibly 60s for the next 2 weeks. Night time temps in the 50s and 60s.

Assuming this lawn clueless noob bought grass seed already; If overseeding now isn't ideal, will the seed store just fine until this Fall?



Don't do it.  You will lose 3/4 of your seed, most likely, unless you are prepared to drain the aquafer dry and even then you will still lose half.

Your seed will keep just fine.

Know your date of first fall frost.  Back that up two months.  That's when you seed.  

you must ABSOLUTELY keep your seed dry.  If you let it get damp, you will lose it.

Keep the seed DRY.



Thanks.

So in a sealed 5 gallon bucket should be fine? (It came in a 20lb bag). Is it OK to keep it in the non-climate controlled garage? Or is it better to put it in the cool, dry basement?
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 1:55:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 3:16:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Got a new toy in the mail today from reelrollers.com and had to install it in between work meetings... and then mow... because why not!

Shiny new grooved roller


Excuse the brownish areas, I need to do some sprinkler finagling


Weekend to-do list includes some sprinkler tweaking, Essential-G soil amendment, fert and iron apps, followed by swimming pool + margarita.
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 3:38:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bluemax_1] [#4]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



I don't know if I would seal it in plastic in a non-climate-controlled environment.   I think I'd do a cardboard box or screen over the bucket or some such.

First because....condensation

Second because....there is SOME moisture in the bag as it is...

I think sealing it in plastic like that might lead to problems.

Put it where rodents can't get it and where it can't get more moisture in it, and let it breathe.  If you were keeping it for two years, I might tell you different, but that's what I'd do.

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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By bluemax_1:

Thanks.

So in a sealed 5 gallon bucket should be fine? (It came in a 20lb bag). Is it OK to keep it in the non-climate controlled garage? Or is it better to put it in the cool, dry basement?



I don't know if I would seal it in plastic in a non-climate-controlled environment.   I think I'd do a cardboard box or screen over the bucket or some such.

First because....condensation

Second because....there is SOME moisture in the bag as it is...

I think sealing it in plastic like that might lead to problems.

Put it where rodents can't get it and where it can't get more moisture in it, and let it breathe.  If you were keeping it for two years, I might tell you different, but that's what I'd do.


Got it. Thanks!

I'll just go agead and put the bag in the cool, climate controlled basement until the Fall.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 1:45:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 8:22:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Well poop, I found out today I have bermudagrass mites. Reluctantly sprayed the lawn with Bifen XTS (I prefer to try to never use this stuff) and ordered some Deltagard G. Looks like I'm going to have to scalp and bag clippings, bleh.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 9:13:45 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Perfect as long as it's not damp down there.
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By bluemax_1:

Got it. Thanks!

I'll just go agead and put the bag in the cool, climate controlled basement until the Fall.



Perfect as long as it's not damp down there.

I prefer to keep the indoor RH at 40% or less, year round.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 10:56:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 1:05:14 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
I didn't know there was such a pest.

Interesting.  What drew your attention to them?
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I wasn't either until this year. Saw a few spots like this in the lawn and at first thought it might be something I was doing with reel mowing since it's my first season doing so but after doing some reading I found there is actually a name for this type of damage - referred to as "witch brooming". Eventually it progresses to spots of dead/dying grass as they feed/multiply/spread. The mites themselves are microscopic so you can only easily detect them visually through the damage they cause.


Very detailed write-up on the mites if anyone is interested and for anyone wondering, they only impact/feed on bermuda grass:
https://www.gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/bermudagrass-mite
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 7:44:43 PM EDT
[#10]
What will kill wild violets without killing my burmuda?
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 8:15:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#11]
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Originally Posted By Hamdammer:
What will kill wild violets without killing my burmuda?
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Preliminary googling suggests 2,4-D or Dicamba may be effective. Those chems shouldn't hurt bermuda grass. I use 2,4-D for general broadleaf type weeds without any negative side effects to my lawn. Disclaimer: I have not used any of the aforementioned products to control wild violet and you should be 100% sure that's what you have before you decide on any selective/non-selective post-emergent herbicide.

I found this doc on controlling wild violet that should help you with a plan. It looks like it might take multiple applications to control and eradicate. Depending on how bad you have it and whether you can pull it successfully (without it dropping seeds like sedges do when you pull), that might be a better alternative.
https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W807.pdf
Link Posted: 5/14/2022 3:18:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/19/2022 5:25:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#13]
After screwing around with different nozzles to try to improve my in ground sprinkler system and reduce some dry spots, I decided to say eff it and replace the misting style heads with rotators. I don't know why I didn't do this sooner and my next house I will definitely have them. Went with the Rainbird 32SA for ease of install and to maintain the 1/2" fittings to the existing lines (bought a 4-pack from amazon for $33 to try and got three installed today). Will install the last one tomorrow and then re-calibrate my watering time.

As an added bonus, I unearthed all sorts of exciting buried treasure while digging up the old sprinklers.... lazy fricken builders.


Link Posted: 5/21/2022 12:57:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#14]
Link Posted: 5/21/2022 9:28:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#15]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Are your rotators adjustable so that you can control the sweep, stop and start positions?
On mine the start position is fixed. You turn the top of the rotor with the arrow counter-clockwise until it stops and that is your start position. To set the stop position, you turn the screw at the top of the head which has "-" and "+" symbols to adjust it from 40 to 360 degrees. Every adjustment you make you turn it all the way to the left then back right to it's new stop position until you have the desired sweep range. When you install it you want to ensure the arrow is at its left most position and pointed to where you want the start position to be. You have to turn the entire sprinkler body to get the arrow where you need it to start. Just need to keep this in mind when installing so you don't over/under tighten. Sorry, that was a lot to just basically have said "yes" lol.

ETA: Not that I know which are good or not.  I've just started my journey into irrigation learning, after encountering some real assholes in the irrigation business (meaning not ONE of the irrigation people I've encountered has been a good human being.)  I'm assuming not all irrigation people are like this, since we have one here in the thread who seems like a really good guy.

Anyway, any study takes time, so irrigation has to get in line for me.  Really excited that you are doing this.  

Share what you know!


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Things I've learned so far:
1) The rotors I purchased are not what I would consider "professional" grade like the RainBird 5000/Hunter PGP Ultra and up series so features are limited. For example, you are limited in nozzle selection and whether it includes check valves. The RainBird 32sa rotors I have do not have check valves included but they do have them available as optional on that model.

2) Check valves are important to have on heads installed at the lowest elevation of a zone to prevent puddling/erosion as a result of drainage.

3) Nozzle selection is key to a proper working rotor system - a general rule of thumb is to halve the flow rate from any overlapping sprinklers you have set at 360 to 180 degrees and from 180 to 90 degrees. EG: I have one 360 rotor with a 3gpm nozzle, a 180 with a 1.5gpm nozzle, and two 90s with .75gpm nozzles.

The reasoning here is it takes twice as long for the 360 rotor to travel its arc as the 180, and it takes the 180 twice as long to to finish its travel as the 90 so you want to balance their outputs as best you can. Also, I *think* most residential irrigation systems have a water pressure ceiling of around 16-18gpm so if you have 7 heads in a zone all with 3gpm nozzles, you'd likely go over the max of what your water pressure will allow and run into issues. This guy explains things much better than me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8J07wbsP7k&ab_channel=SprinklerWarehouse

4) Figure out which sprinklers are going to go where and setup the appropriate sweep ranges and install the nozzles BEFORE installation - makes things much easier later and not having to try to fuss with this once they are in-ground.

5) The springs on rotors seem to be about 100x stiffer than the misting style heads. Would recommend getting the special tool rainbird/hunter/whoever makes for whatever brand you go with to be able to pull them up easier otherwise you can get by with a flathead screwdriver though it's more of a pain especially if they are recessed into the ground a bit.

6) These things can throw water, a LOT of water, FAR, and will throw it practically from the head all the way out to the end which means you get much more complete even coverage than misting style heads. If you are replacing an existing misting style irrigation system with rotors, even just switching out a few, you may need to cap off old heads that you no longer need as you find you don't need as many sprinklers in a zone as you did before. I'm currently looking into several options but ideally I want to keep the sprinkler body in ground or a pipe that comes up to the level of the ground that is capped so any future homeowner or sprinkler repair guy can find the old lines if need be.


Final thoughts - Thank you sprinkler install guy that installed most of my in-ground lines using flexible hose instead of PVC. So much easier to work with and not having to constantly worry about breaking which is a huge PITA to fix. Flex lines are the way, PVC is dumb. If you're thinking about switching from a misting style pop-up sprinkler to a gear-driven rotor, get one and try it out. They are so much better - there's a reason why you see them used on sports fields and golfing greens.

Disclaimer: I am not a pro and the above is solely based on my personal limited experience and research. Hope this is helpful!
Link Posted: 5/21/2022 10:15:26 PM EDT
[#16]
I used to be an irrigation professional, and in my opinion, Rain Bird or Hunter rotary nozzles are the best for homeowners. They have a very even distribution of water, which means precise control is possible. No need for over-watering to compensate for areas that don’t get enough. (Typically near the heads) Because they have a comparatively low GPM output, more of them can fit in a zone, requiring less valves and possibly a smaller controller. They’re also easy to set up and maintain. I like how quiet they are. It depends on the setup, but they can also be more wind-resistant than sprays or rotors.

All of that said, if you’re covering a big area, get rotors.
Link Posted: 5/22/2022 12:13:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#17]
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Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob:
I used to be an irrigation professional, and in my opinion, Rain Bird or Hunter rotary nozzles are the best for homeowners. They have a very even distribution of water, which means precise control is possible. No need for over-watering to compensate for areas that don’t get enough. (Typically near the heads) Because they have a comparatively low GPM output, more of them can fit in a zone, requiring less valves and possibly a smaller controller. They’re also easy to set up and maintain. I like how quiet they are. It depends on the setup, but they can also be more wind-resistant than sprays or rotors.

All of that said, if you’re covering a big area, get rotors.
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Thank you for your insight here. Glad to know we have some irrigation specialists around. I considered rotary nozzles but had read conflicting reviews on them though I may look into trying them out on my vanity strips to replace the sprays I have there. I have about 1500sqft of lawn in the front and 3100 in the back so really not a whole lot but do have some dead zones that the sprays don't reach (usually near the heads as you alluded to). Since we're moving next year to a lot that's twice our current lot size I'm not planning on doing any replacements for the back yard or any further significant modifications to the irrigation system but wanted to try out rotors as more of a learning experience and just because I enjoy tinkering.

Do you have any thoughts on homeowner controllers like the Rachio 3? Also anything you'd recommend me ask our new home builder (it will come with in-ground irrigation)? Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 5/22/2022 11:11:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 5/23/2022 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Here is one for you.

About 2 weeks ago I saw a patch of "gray" grass close to the house

When I ran over it with the mower, I got a slight dusting

This part of the house faces north and never gets sun and because of a deep overhang, very little rain

Fungus?  Mildew?

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Link Posted: 5/25/2022 9:14:15 PM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By TheStig:
. . .

Do you have any thoughts on homeowner controllers like the Rachio 3? Also anything you'd recommend me ask our new home builder (it will come with in-ground irrigation)? Thanks in advance!
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I have never used one, but from my brief research it sounds like it won’t work without an internet connection? I’m skeptical of that, and it’s long-term durability. Don’t have direct experience, so this is speculation.

As for builder-installed systems, make sure you receive a diagram of where everything is. If you can modify things, have the valve box and controller put in a place that makes sense. Controller inside the garage, and valve box NOT randomly in the middle of the lawn someplace. It should be a modular manifold for easy future servicing. Do not accept some field engineered PVC cobbled together plastic puzzle nonsense.

Other than the design, irrigation is pretty simple. If its put in correctly and works the first time, chances are good it will work trouble-free for years after that.
Link Posted: 5/26/2022 11:06:59 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob:
...snip...
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I *think* it just needs WiFi connectivity not necessarily internet, for controlling/changing settings but will have to look into it more. I am skeptical too because if I lose WiFi for some reason or another there's no physical controls. I have a Rainbird ESP-ME3 controller currently which I like for the most part except for the mobile app which can be clunky.

Thank you much for the info here. I will add those to my notes for when we meet with the builder.
Link Posted: 5/26/2022 11:15:20 AM EDT
[#22]
I will add my experience with the rainbird sa line of sprinklers. They work so much better for me than the mister type, granted my water time is longer due to less flow, but more gets to soak in and way more precise control of where it gets watered. My sprinklers in the front were set up about 12 inches inboard of the edge of the lawn because at once time it had a box bush border so I was always struggling getting behind the heads and not drenching the concrete. With the new sa's I can pick which distance and flow I want, fine tune the distance and edges with extreme preceision. I installed 42sa's on my field and they flow great and great coverage. I get about 32 feet running 35-40 psi, so I spaced every 30 feet and have perfect coverage. The front yard, grass finally started coming back with a vengence and looks like a completely different lawn inside 4 weeks.
Link Posted: 5/26/2022 11:27:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Now onto my dilemma. I cannot figure out what grass seed to plant for my field. I want the dirt and mud gone. I have a tall fescue in the front yard and love the look of it, but is high maintenance requiring mowing weekly and loves water. I don't know if I want the tall fescue in the back just because how fast it grows, the amount of water it needs and the amount of clippings it produces. St. Augustin is out because I'm not buying sod, so will Bermuda work with a ride on mower? Or is there another type I am missing? I'm in Southern California zone 9b.
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Link Posted: 5/26/2022 11:55:25 AM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By savage1971:
Now onto my dilemma. I cannot figure out what grass seed to plant for my field. I want the dirt and mud gone. I have a tall fescue in the front yard and love the look of it, but is high maintenance requiring mowing weekly and loves water. I don't know if I want the tall fescue in the back just because how fast it grows, the amount of water it needs and the amount of clippings it produces. St. Augustin is out because I'm not buying sod, so will Bermuda work with a ride on mower? Or is there another type I am missing? I'm in Southern California zone 9b.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/117398/20220525_194309_jpg-2397661.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/117398/20220525_194625_jpg-2397662.JPG
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I think all warm season grass types, especially Bermuda, prefer to be cut often (twice weekly if you can) to promote growth. The more you stifle vertical growth, the more the plant puts energy into spreading laterally and filling out. Bermuda grass tends to be more drought/disease resistant, easily self repairs, and spreads like crazy, though it is not a shade tolerant grass. I don't think you'll be able to get it to grow much around/under that tree and it will be sparse at best if not just remain dirt, though if that's not a problem for you it definitely could be an option. You may want to look into Zoysia as an alternative as it is very shade tolerant. I know next to nothing about seeding or other grass types and all I've dealt with is sod so calling @Kitties-with-Sigs to the white courtesy phone please!
Link Posted: 5/26/2022 12:02:56 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
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Looks like it could be fungus if that area remains moist and doesn't see much sunlight throughout the day. Surprised the grass can grow there without much water/sunlight. My north/south facing spots are practically bare, except for some thinning grass and a few weeds. If I was staying at this house longer I'd just turn them into rock beds or something decorative that requires little to no maintenance.
Link Posted: 5/26/2022 6:51:32 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By TheStig:


Looks like it could be fungus if that area remains moist and doesn't see much sunlight throughout the day. Surprised the grass can grow there without much water/sunlight. My north/south facing spots are practically bare, except for some thinning grass and a few weeds. If I was staying at this house longer I'd just turn them into rock beds or something decorative that requires little to no maintenance.
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So a fungicide for lawns?

Is there such a thing?

We've lived here 32 years and this a first

Link Posted: 5/26/2022 7:48:36 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
So a fungicide for lawns?

Is there such a thing?

We've lived here 32 years and this a first
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Yes. It might be powdery mildew. Most grass fungus' can be addressed using a fungicide with the active ingredient propiconazole or azoxystrobin. Can you get a better (closer) pic of the grass blade(s) showing the trouble?

Did you recently change your irrigation times? If you irrigate that area at all, what time do you have it set to start?
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 9:56:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#28]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:00:05 AM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


@Avidrook where are you and what grass type do you have mostly?

I have you in NC in my head, but I'm not at all sure that's right.


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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Here is one for you.

About 2 weeks ago I saw a patch of "gray" grass close to the house

When I ran over it with the mower, I got a slight dusting

This part of the house faces north and never gets sun and because of a deep overhang, very little rain

Fungus?  Mildew?

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/295532/IMG_2964_JPG-2394514.JPG


@Avidrook where are you and what grass type do you have mostly?

I have you in NC in my head, but I'm not at all sure that's right.




Yep, I live in Charlotte NC

As for grass type, a mixture of fescue and weeds of every description.  For pet safety we dropped the lawn service long ago

I'm not sure this affected grass is fescue or just weed grass



Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:16:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:18:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:33:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:38:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: savage1971] [#33]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



Bermuda will absolutely work with a ride-on, though I don't know that you will be happy with it the same way you are happy with your fescue.

Some questions:

1-What part of California do you live in?  What is your climate?  Do you get cold in winter?  Snow at all?  Bermudagrass goes dormant in winter if you get any frost.   So the grass turns brown and stays brown all winter, then turns green again when temps warm up in the spring.  

2-What is that soil like back there?  Is it heavy clay?  Compacted? (Have vehicles been parked on it?  Does water stand on it a while before it soaks in?  Does it dry out slowly and crack?

3-Do you have in-ground irrigation?   (Your fescue looks great in front)

4-Are you willing to do some landscaping around that tree?  Bermuda is unlikely to do well underneath that tree, and I would hate to lose that, as it is a very nice feature.  A nice rock bed with edging (Just some metal, hammer-in edging from a big-box store is fine) would look fantastic, out to about the drip line, then Bermuda on the rest of the yard.  

5-The idea time to germinate Bermuda seed is spring, so it has the hot summer (with a lot of water) to get it going before it goes into winter dormancy.   So that's why I'm asking about your temps--(what is your climate like?)  I'm not sure the Bermuda will even GO dormant where you are.  

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I'm in southern california, about 30 miles from the coast. Snows maybe once every 15 years, we will get frost in winter, but temps usually never go below 30, typically  winter temps usually never get below mid 30's to 40's. Summer temps can range as high as 120 for a couple weeks a year, but usual summer temps are 90-100. I did just put in in ground irrigation, 1500 feet of it. The Avacado tree you see in the pic is not usually that low hanging but is covered this year in avacados, as well as the tree behind me in the pic that you cant see. It will get trimmed higher up once the avacados drop and I did plan on doing a planter underneath of it, so I dont need grass up to the trunk. The back is a mess right now because I am still finishing up on the irrigation and have been neglecting everything else. My plan is to plow it and turn the soil over. I have worked the garden to the left of the pic and the soil has turned out great, but the lower portion of the field does seem to have more clay in the soil.
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 10:57:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#34]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 11:15:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: savage1971] [#35]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


Okay, note the Landscaping thread on the later pages, where we talk about not putting a deep bed around trees.  Keep it even with the existing soil so nothing is piled high on the roots or around the trunk.  

Now then to the grass:

I feel like Bermuda would be ideal for you.   @TheStig is correct in that Bermuda LIKES to be kept very short which means twice per week cutting, but you don't have to do that.  Most people don't do that.   Keeping your Bermuda at about 2" or so, and cutting with a riding, rotary mower will work just fine.  ETA:  HOWEVER, cutting it very tall may result in a yard that's not as pretty.  

Some things to keep in mind:

1-The weed controls that work on your fescue (many of them anyhow)will damage or kill your Bermuda.  Same goes the other way.  Controls for Bermuda will harm the fescue.

2-Bermuda is an alpha grass, and will eventually take over your fescue and choke it out, gradually moving toward your front yard, unless you have a SERIOUS divider between the two.  Even then, I predict a full bermuda yard in your future.  There is nothing that will absolutely keep Bermudagrass out of fescue.   (I know that sounds contradictory, since I just said the weed controls that help fescue will harm Bermuda, but when I say Bermuda is the alpha, I mean that 100 percent.  Dinging the Bermuda with something like a triclopyr --commonly used on cool season grass like fescue--will make it look bad, but it probably won't die.  It will come roaring back.)

3-At 30 degrees, with frost, your back yard will turn brown part of the winter.  It may never get fully dormant, but it might.  So if it goes fully dormant, that's a great time to do weed control, because you can spray glyphosate on the dormant fescue to kill whatever else is in there that you don't want.  HOWEVER, if it's not FULLY dormant, you will harm your turf.  So....gotta pay attention to detail, and not knowing your climate for real, it's important that I make you aware that you will have to spend a bit of energy on knowing your grass this way.

4-The Bermuda is also going to try to invade everything else--like your garden.  So...hard edging is your friend, and you will be using some chemical to keep it out of there in spite of the hard edging.  

example:  My house is about 30' deep.   It had no original foundation because it was built in 1849, and was built on stacks of rock pillars.  Working under the house over the years I have found, several times, Bermuda stolons growing from the front of the house, under the skirting, 30 feet in the darkness and coming out the back of the house.  THIRTY FEET WITH NO LIGHT.  Only the food it's getting from the last rooted point.

Sometimes I worry that the wild Bermuda in my yard will creep in under the old window sashes at night and choke me in my sleep.  

Now then, that will to survive is a GOOD thing if you want that grass.  But....

If you have not grown Bermuda before, just be prepared. It is a force to be reckoned with.


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My front and back grass are seperated by about 25 feet of concrete driveway, but if you are saying that it will find its way to the front from the back under the driveway then I will just stick with fescue. I am not giving up my fescue in the front as I love the way it looks, it is the greenest lawn on a major street for miles. This is what my front looked like less than a year ago. Planted seed last August and took forever fighting weeds until the grass established and pushed most everything out. Still fighting a small patch of fox tails, but I think I have them on the run.
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Link Posted: 5/27/2022 11:46:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 11:50:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 11:59:35 AM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
...snip...
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Thank you much for the feedback and advice, sir!

The build includes basic landscaping (full sprinklers front and back, drip irrigation for trees and mulch beds, controller, stone edging, sod, and two trees) but I'm going to be contacting a landscape designer for plans to potentially work into the build prior to closing so that should all be sorted before we move in. I definitely intend to ensure proper irrigation coverage and obtain blueprints of everything. I am also more than willing to pay extra to get exactly what I want. Before they lay the sod I'm going to ask if I can go out there and have the yard tilled, remove any left over construction debris and get it as level as possible (or if the contractor could do that for me for a little extra since I doubt they'll let me just come out there and screw about).

I still need to work out what sod I want to go with as well as trees. The build does include it but I'm guessing it'll be something cheap like common Bermuda but I want something a little nicer. I'm thinking TifTuf, TifGrand, or maybe Zeon Zoysia - still awaiting our meeting with the builder at this point to go over all the other options so I have time. As for trees, I believe I *have* to pick a native species so I need to do some research into what would be ideal in terms of least amount of debris that it drops, least intrusive root system, etc. I was hoping to opt for a Shantung Maple or Chinese Pistache but don't think I'll be able to.


Link Posted: 5/27/2022 12:08:22 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
@Savage1971

You should get on youtube and do a little looking at Allyn Hayne's videos about Bermuda (The Lawn Care Nut)   Also Matt Martin's at The Grass Factor.

The Bermuda is so powerful because it spreads in three ways.  Stolons (above-ground runners, Rhizomes, (below-ground runners) and seed.

So the most invasive parts are the runners (above and below ground).   Birds, the wind, you and your equipment will all spread seed.  So if you want to play with the Bermuda, just be aware, part of having it will be keeping it out of the fescue.  People do it.  It's not impossible. But it takes work and you have to be on top of it constantly.  

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I will have to check them out on youtube. As to cross contamination, it shouldnt be a problem with the equipment as I cant use the riding mower in the front. Cant get it through my gate, so my honda is delegated to front duty and I planned on lanscaping the rear so it could all be done on the riding mower to cut down on time.
I was thinking bermuda originally for the back as I'm not super concerned about having the super lush green in the back like the fescue in the front, it is super durable and mainly just get rid of the dirt to cut down on the dust
Link Posted: 5/27/2022 1:57:52 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


@Avidrook where are you and what grass type do you have mostly?

I have you in NC in my head, but I'm not at all sure that's right.


ETA:   Here are two web pages.  I'm going to assume you have bluegrass and/or fescue.  That looks kind of like bluegrass there in the photo, though I can't really tell for certain with such a small visual sample, what makes up your turfgrass.

This is a page from OSU  BUT......They are wrong.   Fungicides can be used as a curative for PM (powdery mildew) and I do it all the time.  I'm putting this here because the photos are good.

This page is from NC State.  It's better factually, but the photos aren't as good.

A few questions:

1-How big is this patch of grass, and can we see a broader photo, so we can see more of the area?

2-Do you own a sprayer?   Like  a little pump sprayer or a backpack, etc?

3-Are you comfortable mixing and spraying stuff with some help?  Or are you more comfortable with "buy this bottle at home depot, attach a hose to it, and spray it on the lawn"?

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1. approx 8 ft long, 3 feet deep.  along the wall of an add on "porch"

2. yep to sprayers

3. sure I can mix chemicals, but if there is a small quantity product I can buy at HD, I'd prefer that.  It's a very small area relatively speaking

To add, I've lived here 32 yrs.  This is a first for this stuff

Link Posted: 5/28/2022 2:17:44 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob:
As for builder-installed systems, make sure you receive a diagram of where everything is. If you can modify things, have the valve box and controller put in a place that makes sense. Controller inside the garage, and valve box NOT randomly in the middle of the lawn someplace. It should be a modular manifold for easy future servicing. Do not accept some field engineered PVC cobbled together plastic puzzle nonsense.
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@Kilroytheknifesnob

I swung by the model today for some sprinkler and gutter recon (builder priced option seems on the high side) and located the valve box - approximately 4 or 5 feet from the slab in the backyard near the patio so not terrible placement but that may be problematic when we eventually get a pool so might need to have that moved in the building plans. They have yet to pour concrete and we are awaiting our meeting with the builder but upon closer examination of the valve box, it looks like they opted for a field expedient PVC puzzle of dumb, unfortunately. Not to mention the rats nest of wires which could have taken me 5 minutes to clean up but I guess you get what you pay for in labor these days. Will definitely be bringing this up to the builder. On the plus side, the controller looks to be a good one which I probably won't change.

Valve Box
Controller
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 9:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#42]
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#43]
I don’t know that specific controller, but Hunter makes good stuff. Wouldn’t hesitate to buy any of their products. I do prefer a wired rain sensor, not sure if the location can support it.

That valve box is a mess. Anyone who has to do repairs on that will curse the installers. I see a few nitpicky things. Obviously the wire mess should be cleaned up. Gel caps would dry out occasionally and cause problems, so I would use the wire nuts that went into a tube of grease. If I was doing irrigation today, I’d experiment with aviation environmental splices for a super-clean look. The last thing I notice about the box is that the pipes seem to be buried fairly shallowly. Deeper is better for avoiding accidental damage, especially with PVC.

After all that shade thrown, I must point out that there’s nothing wrong with the install. It probably will work flawlessly for the next 10 years.
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 9:45:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs] [#44]
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 9:47:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: savage1971] [#45]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


The durability of Bermuda is a huge plus.  Especially if you have kids who will be playing out there.  Ballgames, etc...Bermuda can handle it.   Setting up a seasonal pool or even a weekend bouncy house or water slide that's gonna kill part of the grass? Nothing will fill back in like Bermuda.  Especially if you feed it.

The hybrid Bermudas can be incredibly dark and lush.   Don't sell it short for that.

Do spend some time on those sites (and I have more I can suggest) and search them both for Bermuda hybrids.   They are far, far better than common Bermuda for color and lushness.

Once you do that, come back and I will suggest other places to do research.  I also have a network of lawn professionals from California to Main to the Florida Keys, who do nothing but grow grass.   I can always hit them up for what THEY would plant if they had their perfect world, not only for beauty, but for resilience, for drought resistance, for disease and pest resistance as well.  Often it is better to spend the money up front on a quality seed for an improved variety, and save money on the pesticides later because you have a grass that can stand up to more attacks.

ETA: Okay, color me skeptical, and take this lightly because I think the Bermuda will work for you.  BUT....you WILL spread that Bermuda seed.  You'll spread it with your shoes.   Birds will spread it.  Wind will spread it.  The rabbit romping across the yard will spread it.    

It will spread to the front.  But since it won't be the runners doing that, you have a decent chance to fight it out of your fescue, especially if you keep the fescue strong, healthy, and thick.   You will get SOME.  But I believe you can win.  There are tools to use against the Bermuda to make it prefer to go other directions.   I'm happy to share those if you get a Bermuda back yard.


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I have been sold on the Bermuda for the resilience and how well it covers. I don't want the "carpet" look like my brother in laws house across the street, plus it's never as green as my fescue, but like I said, that isn't a priority for the back. But if there is a hybrid, which I haven't really researched, that may be doable. Who knows, maybe I'm just being too analytical about the front do to the work put into it. I just have always loved the lush look of a tall fescue as you are driving by. My front has zero traffic other than mowing and changing out my flags so I wasn't concerned about resilience.  But the back would be great to have something indestructible. What you don't see to the right is my "proper" backyard which has dogs and the chickens that the wife delegated to roaming the yard because they were being picked on, hence why I was leaning the Bermuda route. If you think I have a chance of keeping them seperate I'm game to give it a try.  
I have also been watching his vids on YouTube and on the fb group too. A lot of inspiration there.
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 10:39:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 5/28/2022 11:39:47 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:


Listen...if you're in, say, a facebook group of Lawn Treatment Professionals, there is SO MUCH HATE for DIYers and for the youtubers who reach out to that audience.

That is bullshit. (pardon my language, but that is just pure bullshit)

Allyn Hayne is responsible for as many awesome lawns in this country, as is ANY one Lawn Care provider like me. (Or someone much bigger than me. I'm a tiny business, in the grander scheme of things).   I don't know what's wrong with those pros, but put some of the lawns on the LCN facebook page beside ANY of their lawns, and sometimes, the LCN lawns would WIN!

Your lawn is proof.  You work it, and it's gorgeous!

It's not rocket science.  It's learning what the soil and the grass need!  

When we use a lawn heavily, we have to manage it differently.  But you have the skills. That front lawn proves it.  You are in a difficult environment for fescue, and you're doing great.  Bermuda will be a new learning curve for you, but it will be easier, in a lot of ways.

I would LOVE to see you go for it, and please share with us here, so others will be inspired that they can do it too!

A quick story (as if I EVER tell a quick story)

Only a very few years ago, I went to the GIE (Green Industry Expo) in Louisville. I'd been mowing professionally, and I'd decided I wanted to do lawn treatments.  Yes, I went to grad school for horticulture and landscape design, but I did NOT go through the turf program.   That was separate, and growing landscapes, or greenhouses full of plants...yeah...I was good to go.   Growing grass is a whole other thing.  Not many landscape plants are monocots.

So I had been on Youtube, watching everything from the NTEP trials to Lawncology to The Grass Factor(early vids...he is different now) to Allyn Hayne, the Lawn Care Nut (his early vids--right now he is shifting focus slightly).  I went to the Lawncology booth to connect and learn more about their NEXT (Nitrogen Extending) line of products that included use of Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid, and other interesting new stuff that had made its way into agriculture, but was still a new thing in lawn care.  Since I have the soil science background to understand it, I wanted to know more.

I was standing there, chatting with the folks who make those products, and who should step up beside me but...Allyn Hayne.   I was very excited to meet him, and I shared my goal....Start a lawn treatment company from a mowing company.   He said, "You should come to Lawncology." (a conference the following January).  I signed up.  I went.  I met hundreds of experienced lawn treatment pros there, and I was launched into the treatment industry because of that support network.

Allyn was there, as were several others in the Youtube community.  I have learned a LOT about who deserves significant attention and who does not, within that group.  So now that I've been in treatment for a bit and  have a network of pros I can talk with for any issues or to learn advanced stuff, I like to still watch and pay attention to Allyn and others who speak largely to the DIY community. Because I like to help people who want to do things for themselves.

If you are going to treat your own lawn, I'm not your lawn care professional.  I will lose NOTHING by helping you.  Right?

That is how I have always approached my business.  Advice is always free. Once I start doing physical work (which includes reading labels), that's not free. (Usually..unless...well...mowing or helping people who can't afford it...that's a different subject.)

So all that to tell you....the people I recommend you watch on Youtube are people I know, and deeply respect.  If I don't know them, I will say so.  Allyn Hayne is a good guy.  Loves the country. Son in the Air Force.  Building his business, but just an all-around good person.

I give him the credit for launching me into what I do for a living.

I like to support that kind of generosity.

So many great people in the lawn care community.    I cannot say enough about how happy I am to be a part of it.  I want to pay that forward by sharing any way I can.

All this came about because of the work, and kindness, of Allyn Hayne, the Lawn Care Nut.
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What you are saying goes a long way with me, sounds like I need to find a Bermuda hybrid that will work for me. I will say that my initial reluctance,  before your growing 30ft under the house comment, was to get a truly beautiful Bermuda lawn, I was under the impression I needed to use a reel mower, which I'm not doing on an acre and can't afford a tractor with a reel mower. But if I can get a nice Bermuda with a rotary, sharp blades and some hard work. I am game. I am sure I can at least try to keep it out of the front, and who knows, I may wind up liking the Bermuda more. Now to find the right hybrid. Next I will be hitting you up on my brother in laws Bermuda. It is in sad shape. So a little back story,  we inherited this property about a year ago from my wife's grandmother, my brother in law lives across the street and we (family) inherited that property 2 years ago from my father in law. Ya, rough past 2 years. But back to the story.  There was a gardner here that has been cutting the weeds for the past 30 years, he was part of the family. I planted the front and after it took hold I let him take over. The lawn always looked like shit. He was cutting it to about 2 inch and was getting scorched,  my brother in laws looked like crap, was too long for Bermuda.  I couldn't fire him, he was part of my wife's family basically. Well he went to Mexico for a month and I took over. It was a huge difference in the quality on the front and the wife saw it. Finally convinced her to save the $200 a month for 2 visits and I do it every week like it needed. So now for my field and my brother in laws Bermuda. I may have to buy a reel mower for his though. It literally looks like a Bermuda mat was laid on his front yard. I know I will need to scalp it and bring it back, just don't know if a rotary will suffice, that and keeping all the damn gophers at bay. I really appreciate your incite
Link Posted: 5/29/2022 1:43:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 5/30/2022 4:33:14 PM EDT
[#49]
I may be having second thoughts on the Bermuda. Holy crap, that crap is so thick. I mowed my brother in laws lawn today since we fired the gardner a few weeks back. He has been cutting it probably about 2.5 inch, too thick. Set the Honda to 3 inch and it was hit and miss with hitting the grass so I set it to 2 inch, which it still needs to go lower and it was so thick that the deck and blade were floating on th3 carpet of grass and then when the blade would get into a nice thick section it would kill the engine like  nothing. I can see how much more resilient it is to drought as he isn't watering what it needs, but it is still getting by. I think hitting it with the gas hedge trimmer may have been a better bet, lol. It is definitely a force to be reckoned with, especially how thick it is.
Link Posted: 5/31/2022 9:40:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheStig] [#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By savage1971:
I may be having second thoughts on the Bermuda. Holy crap, that crap is so thick. I mowed my brother in laws lawn today since we fired the gardner a few weeks back. He has been cutting it probably about 2.5 inch, too thick. Set the Honda to 3 inch and it was hit and miss with hitting the grass so I set it to 2 inch, which it still needs to go lower and it was so thick that the deck and blade were floating on th3 carpet of grass and then when the blade would get into a nice thick section it would kill the engine like  nothing. I can see how much more resilient it is to drought as he isn't watering what it needs, but it is still getting by. I think hitting it with the gas hedge trimmer may have been a better bet, lol. It is definitely a force to be reckoned with, especially how thick it is.
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Sounds like maybe ya waited a little too long in between mows. I maintain my backyard (common Bermuda mixed with some St Augustine - which has started mixing together in what I now refer to as St Bermudastine) at 2" and mow every 3-4ish days and never have an issue with the mower bogging down and it is pretty thick. I was keeping it at 1 1/4" but didn't want to have to mow just the bermuda sections then stop and raise the cutting height to then mow over the StA (which really likes mowing heights of 3" or more).

One thing that I like with bermuda is if you let it grow too high, you can always reset the HoC (Height of Cut) at any point during the growing season. Just scalp it on one setting lower than where you want to maintain it (would suggest bagging clippings for this to reduce excess thatch buildup); EG if you want to maintain at 1.5", scalp at 1.25". Hit it with some nitrogen and water it in, and it'll be green again within a week. Then just keep it at 1.5" and you're good to go.

Thick growth means healthy turf and no weed pressure. Healthy turf and no weed pressure means less chems you need to apply (herbicides/fungicides). At that point it is super easy to maintain. Just mow, feed, water, and apply pre-emergents when needed (twice yearly).

Then if you want once it's good and thick and healthy, you can always apply a PGR (Plant Growth Regulator) which will allow you to go longer without mowing as it stifles growth. Though you definitely don't want to apply if you're fighting disease/pests or trying to get it to fill in more or if it isn't fully established grass.
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